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Tasty_Pasta

GamesRadar interview with Rob Nelson

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areyouchappin

R*s choice of actions over this passed year have contradicted just about everything Nelson said in that interview.

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Gray-Hand

GTAonline would have been a better game if we were to pick early on between being a CEO or Gangster or independent armed robber.  

 

The gunrunning, car stealing, heisting, nightclubbing, smuggling could have all been customised to each of those ‘classes’, telling a different part of the ongoing narrative.

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Van_Hellsing

The article is very interesting indeed. It is filled with corporate double speak. I hoped that Rockstar would learn from gta. 

 

For starters, the character creation is a pain to create an appealing character. There is still no option to redo the appearance. Most clothing makes you look like a runaway from 'Les Miserabeles'. 

 

You have still no gun locker. The weapon wheel always resets to the default. The gun locker was one of the most requested features from gta. 

 

Rockstar always knew that RDR2 would go a different direction than gta. Yet Rockstar carbon copied the model from gta. When you start a mission, you are put in a position of disadvantage, like driving a slow ass wagon. Then Rockstar invites the entire lobby to come a grief you. 

 

Rockstar intended RDR2 online to be the same money maker on par with gta. Yet Rockstar fails to understand that RDR2 online should not be an afterthought. It should have been redesigned from the ground up to unleash its full potential. 

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Commander S
21 hours ago, Gray-Hand said:

GTAonline would have been a better game if we were to pick early on between being a CEO or Gangster or independent armed robber.  

 

The gunrunning, car stealing, heisting, nightclubbing, smuggling could have all been customised to each of those ‘classes’, telling a different part of the ongoing narrative.

 

 

I remember when Bikers came out - I didn't bother with Finance & Felony, because being the head of some big-money contraband business wasn't (and isn't) my style, and while being the head of a biker gang also isn't my thing, I really liked the prospect of R* adding different organisation types with their own unique properties, HQs, activities, etc.

 

Heck, I even sent them a suggestion for a kind of Gone in 60 Seconds-inspired third organisation type, where you do similar stuff to Import/Export, but as a street-level thing, where the vehicle warehous would effectively be the counterpart to clubhouses and offices...

 

...so imagine my frustration when Import/Export did add something like that, but ...as part of the SecuroServ business structure from Finance & Felony. :turn:

 

And then with Gunrunning, instead of being able to start a separate business for that as well (arms dealer, PMC, etc.), that just became another thing you do through SecuroServ - but also (weirdly) as a motorcycle club, because R* has two business types they need to include (regardless of whether or not it makes sense...). Even more so with Smuggler's Run - are the brass at Fort Zancudo really going to lease out hangar space to criminal biker gangs? :dontgetit:

 


I'll give Rob Nelson and co. this: at least by having three new roles/career paths at once (and with others already confirmed for future updates), that's an indication that they've seemingly acknowledged that problem, and have planned ahead for RDO. The problem with the SecuroServ model was that they clearly didn't have a long-term plan in place - if they had, they might have set things up to allow incremental expansions of SecuroServ to keep it fresh, while also adding rival business types, rather than just bolting everything on as an extension of the one (well, two, after Bikers) system(s).

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D T

I took the poncho joke as a pretty obvious hint towards Mexico being added.

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Tasty_Pasta
On 8/11/2019 at 4:46 AM, D T said:

I took the poncho joke as a pretty obvious hint towards Mexico being added.

I think with the minor map update of the Casino in GTA, it seems pretty likely that they could do a time leap in RDO and update the map to include Mexico and the RDR1 map features, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

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Fun 2

Hey Rockstar, I just want to let you know that if you raise the rewards in this game and let it give us more XP and gold nuggets, not a single goddamn soul will complain about it.

If you go to GTA Online and join any lobby, there's always that random dude who invite you to a heist.

I don't get it and I'm sure you don't too, like why do people still play heists in 2019 ?

Now, I'm just letting you know that everyone will be happy if part of your future plans for RDO include a mission or something that give us huge rewards.

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Shadowfennekin
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fun 2 said:

Hey Rockstar, I just want to let you know that if you raise the rewards in this game and let it give us more XP and gold nuggets, not a single goddamn soul will complain about it.

If you go to GTA Online and join any lobby, there's always that random dude who invite you to a heist.

I don't get it and I'm sure you don't too, like why do people still play heists in 2019 ?

Now, I'm just letting you know that everyone will be happy if part of your future plans for RDO include a mission or something that give us huge rewards.

Yeah, I think adding something like that or a business would help bring a lot of players back.

 

The best way to make money right now is pretty boring. Do a daily every day for pretty much forever to make decent amount of gold, and milk FR missions until the timer is close to done before turning them in.

 

They need more missions in general too cause it feels like everyone's always doing that Lee mission or Love without Honor. I literally could write down every freaking line they say in those missions, I've played them that much!

Maybe if they keep the time set for awhile, we could just do businesses over the border or New Austin. Explaining why our characters never crossed paths with the VanDerline Gang

Edited by Shadowfennekin

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tonko
17 hours ago, Tasty_Pasta said:

I think with the minor map update of the Casino in GTA, it seems pretty likely that they could do a time leap in RDO and update the map to include Mexico and the RDR1 map features, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Time leap would do wonders for New Austin. Developed Thieves Landing, McFarlane Ranch and Armadillo with stores, gunsmith, post offices, etc. No more dead towns.

 

And of course my dear Mexico.

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Lonely-Martin
Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2019 at 10:39 AM, Commander S said:

(Snipped to save space :))


I'll give Rob Nelson and co. this: at least by having three new roles/career paths at once (and with others already confirmed for future updates), that's an indication that they've seemingly acknowledged that problem, and have planned ahead for RDO. The problem with the SecuroServ model was that they clearly didn't have a long-term plan in place - if they had, they might have set things up to allow incremental expansions of SecuroServ to keep it fresh, while also adding rival business types, rather than just bolting everything on as an extension of the one (well, two, after Bikers) system(s).

Trouble is, it's taking them so long just to get these 3 roles created that it's likely to be long enough to do all of the three roles fully each anyway, lol.

 

I love what you're saying here, I really do. But the pace R* are working at is horrendous for a game so long in the making (clearly that time went into story of course, but they knew already long ago online was their focus). Like you say about GTA and how we should have more freedom to not buy into a theme, it just means another huge baron spell of nothing if we don't do any of the new content.

 

Like these roles, I really only wanna be a rancher or something like that. (Or a lone wanderer/helping hand until I can play my way more). Run stables/wildlife etc. But we're getting 3 other roles, and if not alot comes alongside this all, I have to play what's offered for now until R* create other roles.

 

This DLC is definitely one R* are hoping 'goes over' because if it doesn't and the majority of the players just either do the lot and lone wolf much, my plan. Or give up because there is too much or the roles are too involved, as we know millions in GTA didn't care to progress anything R* created, lol.

 

With more planned, which I really hope they've been working on the other roles already so the wait between updates is much lesser, but they can't over commit in case 'we' don't want to play R*'s way too much.

 

Bit longer than hoped, lol. I hope I made sense as bit rushed today. :)

Edited by Lonely-Martin
Wording.

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Waingro
Posted (edited)

I think ultimately, RDO will be a parallel experience (and inherently more mature online game) to GTAO. If RDO emulates the single player campaign, then the ultimate expression will be more about collaboration between strangers and/or your posse members as various "classes". 

 

Imagine if GTAO had CEO missions that required the CEO to meet with a Biker Gang, at their clubhouse, in order to hire them to do a Import/Export mission. Now imagine that the various roles are instanced each session with a finite amount of roles, which would force some kind of A. cooperation or B. pvp. 

 

Translate that to RDO. Bounty Hunters can hunt Collectors for robbing some holy burial ground, but Collectors can also sell to traders, etc etc. Or imagine a posse actually now has "roles" afforded to it like the biker gangs (which were buried in the GTAO menus and rarely used) so instead of Armorer/Enforcer/Sargent, it's burglar/hunter/conman. I think in some aspects R* knows what it needs to do, but is there money to be made doing it?

Edited by Waingro

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DentureDynamite
Posted (edited)

Quite honestly, I think the only thing R* have going for them at this point is that no-one else has (or is) doing an open world Wild West game.

 

Wild West Online didn't last long (no surprise there) even though they had some very good ideas that RDO has yet to steal implement.

Edited by DentureDynamite

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The Deadite
9 hours ago, tonko said:

...Developed Thieves Landing...

Thats a place i wouldnt mind being griefed in lol

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netnow66
9 hours ago, DentureDynamite said:

Quite honestly, I think the only thing R* have going for them at this point is that no-one else has (or is) doing an open world Wild West game.

 

Wild West Online didn't last long (no surprise there) even though they had some very good ideas that RDO has yet to steal implement.

What I appreciate about WIld West Online is that they were at least honest about leaning heavily toward PvP from the very beginning. That honesty saved me from wasting my money.

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Leftover Pizza
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Waingro said:

I think ultimately, RDO will be a parallel experience (and inherently more mature online game) to GTAO. If RDO emulates the single player campaign, then the ultimate expression will be more about collaboration between strangers and/or your posse members as various "classes". 

 

Imagine if GTAO had CEO missions that required the CEO to meet with a Biker Gang, at their clubhouse, in order to hire them to do a Import/Export mission. Now imagine that the various roles are instanced each session with a finite amount of roles, which would force some kind of A. cooperation or B. pvp. 

 

Translate that to RDO. Bounty Hunters can hunt Collectors for robbing some holy burial ground, but Collectors can also sell to traders, etc etc. Or imagine a posse actually now has "roles" afforded to it like the biker gangs (which were buried in the GTAO menus and rarely used) so instead of Armorer/Enforcer/Sargent, it's burglar/hunter/conman. I think in some aspects R* knows what it needs to do, but is there money to be made doing it?

 

First of all, you're gonna need content. Good content with a high replay value. They can create any type of interesting role they want, but without good content, everything flaws. 

That's my main concern about a game playing in 1898. How much content can they actually create which fits the era and how far can they stretch it within 'realism' borders, with the focus on PvE? Oil magnates all over the place? Traders with businesses in tools and chamber pots, pelts and herbs? Collectors digging up the same treasure after the same treasure? Bounty hunters hunting the same bounty over and over again eventually? Or several roles in coop to rob that same burial ground again and again for some loot? 

There's only so much you can care for, until the money and gold is no longer an issue. 

Even if they'd introduce cars in this game, which I think would be stupid, how many models can they dripfeed us? Three? What can we customise them with? Animal hides? Bone spokes? 

I seriously think there aren't enough opportunities to keep progression going in this game. Progression is what keeps content interesting enough to play again and again. You have to have something to work for. Floral hats ain't it, nor are hardly visible weapon customizations. There's only so much you can do in the era.

 

 

Edited by Leftover Pizza

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Dr.Rosenthal

@Leftover Pizza Good point - but to me, that's where PvP content fits the bill. Any kind of PvE content quickly gets old after a few replays, but with (well-constructed) PvP content there's usually room for more variety. Although, we have yet to see such content even in GTAO: Business Battles is a first tiny step in the right direction but they could also be more complex. What I've always wanted to see is emergent opportunities that require a certain level of planning (and the freedom to try out any strategy you like, unlike Missions/Heists).

 

From a developers point of view that's tough work though and requires careful and meticulous constructing from the ground up - when you can use the money and time to essentially create a movie which players run through while being led by their hands (and if they stray from the given path they fail the mission).

 

But anyway. I agree with parts of what you're saying. I do however feel that customization is something players always want more of and we will waste our money to fit our cars with bone spokes if there's an opportunity to do so and nothing else to spend the money on, lol. On a similar note, I feel that R* missed a chance at making the guns even more customizable. I'd love it to have more options that'd affect the guns in different ways: put on this barrel and get better accuracy and less power, that other barrel for the opposite effect, larger scopes and mods added to the weapon weight decreases draw speed, if your weapon's been unclean for too long you need to purchase new parts for it so essentially having a 100% clean gun would be very unusual etc etc etc etc - essentially more RPG-y stuff I guess. Randomized loot could be fun too and bring a bit of surprises. There's lots to do to move away from a repetitious grind.

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DentureDynamite
Posted (edited)

^^ I agree; and I would gladly welcome that.

 

IMO long-term game play in RDO needs a good dose of realism and variety in that direction:

 

* Solid weaponry with plausible and realistic PvP combat and gun customization. Earned realistic skills and gun mods/tweaks ala Escape from Tarkov would work quite well here (within limits for the time period).

* More to do in remote areas of the map (snowy parts, etc.). Butchers are needed here; otherwise there's little to no motivation for players to hang around.

* Some kind of primitive flight would do wonders for this game: early hot-air balloons, as well as some kind of basic (but risky) hang glider.

* Swimming underwater. I'm getting *really* tired of trying to lose the law just by outrunning them. Maybe I want to sneak up on a gang hideout on a river by swimming underwater? More variety of evasion and stealth adds significant game play value.

* Using more boats. Why is this taking so long?

* How about deeper, lootable mines that go somewhere? Perhaps a few ridable mine cars? More tunnels and underground bunkers (like the one at the abandoned fort)?

* Open up more houses and buildings, and make use of a lock (and pick) system, the "kick-down" doors animation, and being able to blow open doors (or even walls) of buildings that have been quarantined?

Edited by DentureDynamite

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Leftover Pizza
53 minutes ago, Dr.Rosenthal said:

@Leftover Pizza Good point - but to me, that's where PvP content fits the bill. Any kind of PvE content quickly gets old after a few replays, but with (well-constructed) PvP content there's usually room for more variety. Although, we have yet to see such content even in GTAO: Business Battles is a first tiny step in the right direction but they could also be more complex. What I've always wanted to see is emergent opportunities that require a certain level of planning (and the freedom to try out any strategy you like, unlike Missions/Heists).

 

From a developers point of view that's tough work though and requires careful and meticulous constructing from the ground up - when you can use the money and time to essentially create a movie which players run through while being led by their hands (and if they stray from the given path they fail the mission).

 

But anyway. I agree with parts of what you're saying. I do however feel that customization is something players always want more of and we will waste our money to fit our cars with bone spokes if there's an opportunity to do so and nothing else to spend the money on, lol. On a similar note, I feel that R* missed a chance at making the guns even more customizable. I'd love it to have more options that'd affect the guns in different ways: put on this barrel and get better accuracy and less power, that other barrel for the opposite effect, larger scopes and mods added to the weapon weight decreases draw speed, if your weapon's been unclean for too long you need to purchase new parts for it so essentially having a 100% clean gun would be very unusual etc etc etc etc - essentially more RPG-y stuff I guess. Randomized loot could be fun too and bring a bit of surprises. There's lots to do to move away from a repetitious grind.

 

Agree on all. Any content without reward isn't gonna work. By earning usable items, grinds will give more incentive to do. For example, a chance on looting a special gun barrel with a +10% accuracy or something from a boss NPC in PvE content or a loot chest in a PvP battle ground. Or, for customization's sake, looting a special horse coat/breed the same way. People can flaunt and show off their reward for clearing certain content and being lucky enough to loot the "grand prize" for doing so. Stuff we can't buy from the catalogue or stores which are a good upgrade on store bought stuff and will be of good use in upcoming content. 

 

Lets say you need a group of players to storm the Cornwall oil fields to take out Cornwall who is hiding in the main building. Your group has to work it's way through the fields first, before you can enter the building Cornwall is in. Cornwall goons will come in and try to stop your group from progressing, needing your group to plan attacks and avoid certain mechanics to succeed. Once entering the building, your group needs to clear rooms/halls to reach the boss room. Killing the boss gives you a chance to loot a special item, like a special weapon part, clothes or horse (coat) or something like that. Goons may drop tonics, dynamite sticks, fire bottles or maybe even a treasure map. I'm not going into details on loot tables and loot sytems for now, but there are good examples of that to find in other MMO's. You would at least have something to go for.

Same with PvP. Battle grounds (instanced) could bring a lot of fun, including loot with PvP enhancements for those diehard PvP players. 

 

If they'd implement stuff like that, they'd be able to glue me to the game. As for now, RDO is a nice occasional visit while the theme still catches me. 

 

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Waingro
6 hours ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

First of all, you're gonna need content. Good content with a high replay value. They can create any type of interesting role they want, but without good content, everything flaws. 

That's my main concern about a game playing in 1898. How much content can they actually create which fits the era and how far can they stretch it within 'realism' borders, with the focus on PvE? Oil magnates all over the place? Traders with businesses in tools and chamber pots, pelts and herbs? Collectors digging up the same treasure after the same treasure? Bounty hunters hunting the same bounty over and over again eventually? Or several roles in coop to rob that same burial ground again and again for some loot? 

There's only so much you can care for, until the money and gold is no longer an issue. 

Even if they'd introduce cars in this game, which I think would be stupid, how many models can they dripfeed us? Three? What can we customise them with? Animal hides? Bone spokes? 

I seriously think there aren't enough opportunities to keep progression going in this game. Progression is what keeps content interesting enough to play again and again. You have to have something to work for. Floral hats ain't it, nor are hardly visible weapon customizations. There's only so much you can do in the era.

 

 

Those are all good points if you're not looking for a more immersive and role-play (light) experience. There wasn't progression by your terms on single player campaign. There was some cosmetic pursuit missions and then just engaging with the story characters, and then just living in the world. I don't play enough or often enough where I have time to farm anything, honestly I'd be happy if Rockstar moves away from that. Anyway, my whole point of my original post is literally the opposite of what you want so there's no point in arguing. 

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Leftover Pizza
47 minutes ago, Waingro said:

Those are all good points if you're not looking for a more immersive and role-play (light) experience. There wasn't progression by your terms on single player campaign. There was some cosmetic pursuit missions and then just engaging with the story characters, and then just living in the world. I don't play enough or often enough where I have time to farm anything, honestly I'd be happy if Rockstar moves away from that. Anyway, my whole point of my original post is literally the opposite of what you want so there's no point in arguing. 

 

Honestly, I didn't know what your post was about for sure, so I took it as a suggestive post with some options to improve the game or a thought about in which direction the game is/should be heading. 

I suggest better content with progression. If that is the right opposite of what you want, well. power to you. You already have the game you want. 

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