Should Slippery Bastard be Nerfed.

[Hudawg]

11 minutes ago, TyrionV said:

I like ability cards. 

 

It means every player I come up against can be different meaning that different tactics are required. 

 

It would be boring if we were all the same. 

 

 

I disagree with boring.  Without ability cards it would come down to actual REAL tactics and gun choices instead of ability cards.

 

The original RDR proved that already.    

 

 

Its seems like R* is regressing instead of progressing when it comes to their online games.

[AmyStone]

1 hour ago, TyrionV said:

I like ability cards. 

 

It means every player I come up against can be different meaning that different tactics are required. 

 

It would be boring if we were all the same. 

 

 

Up in smoke yesterday. The clock was at around 60 seconds and nobody had delivered a bag. Then three made a run for it with SB at the same time. No chance of us stopping them all. That card gets abused more than anything else in showdowns. It's the main reason I've stopped playing them.

Edited August 23, 2019 by AmyStone

[TyrionV]

Yeah I get that, nothing to stop you doing the same though!

 

Also, shotguns, melee and grappling to the ground are all effective against SB in the scenario you described. 

 

Seems like they used teamwork and a decent tactic for the situation. 

 

I was more thinking about free roam anyways.

 

Kinda agree with you about the cards in showdowns, it’s hardly fair on newer, lower level players. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by TyrionV

[AmyStone]

4 minutes ago, TyrionV said:

Yeah I get that, nothing to stop you doing the same though!

 

Also, shotguns, melee and grappling to the ground are all effective against SB in the scenario you described. 

 

Seems like they used teamwork and a decent tactic for the situation. 

 

I was more thinking about free roam anyways.

 

Kinda agree with you about the cards in showdowns, it’s hardly fair on newer, lower level players. 

Yes, I could do the same but would feel like I cheated.

 

It's not quite that simple. I've never been able to kill someone with SB who knows what they are doing with it. If someone is in SB and zig zags towards you then pops out of SB, lock on with shotgun you don't stand a chance. It's a stupid ability card.

[Hudawg]

6 hours ago, AmyStone said:

Up in smoke yesterday. The clock was at around 60 seconds and nobody had delivered a bag. Then three made a run for it with SB at the same time. No chance of us stopping them all. That card gets abused more than anything else in showdowns. It's the main reason I've stopped playing them.

Its not getting abused..     Simply shoot them or use PIB.     How can you say theres no chance of stopping them?  They aren't bullet proof.

 

Its not the SB that's the problem in this situation.   Its your over reliance on auto aim.   At the same time, nothing is stopping you from using SB and scoring points.  If you think that SB makes people unstoppable then why don't you use it?  No doubt if you did use it, you'll get nailed by free aim shots or PIB.

 

Don't get me wrong.. I hate ability cards.  But as long as im forced to play in the same lobbies as people using auto aim.. Or as you would say 'Abusing' auto aim.  I need SB.

And anyone trying to get it nerfed is simply trying to create a game ruled by auto aim.

 

The way I see it.  This is how it all plays out for me.

 

 

 

[Deadman2112]

On 8/21/2019 at 4:16 PM, Gleeman Vox said:

Slow and Steady was nerfed to hell a long time ago, but ok

 

I don't think that's correct. 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Deadman2112

[tonko]

20 hours ago, Hudawg said:

That doesn't describe slippery bastard at all tho.   Not everyone is using it..    And most of the people using it are basically free aim players to avoid the actual problem in this game, which is auto aim. 

This is false. Either you're lying or didn't encounter that many  "pop in, pop out" Slippery players. 90% of players are using it to get shotgun kills. Card is unbalanced regardless of how much you try to sugarcoat it.

[tonko]

17 hours ago, TyrionV said:

Yeah I get that, nothing to stop you doing the same though!

 

Also, shotguns, melee and grappling to the ground are all effective against SB in the scenario you described. 

 

Seems like they used teamwork and a decent tactic for the situation. 

No teamwork or strategy needed. Just have the said card, chug tonics and voila! That's it. I did it yesterday with a friend in Spoils of War. We activated SB, they tried to grapple him, knife him while i casually walked in and took the bag. Piece of cake.

Edited August 24, 2019 by tonko

[Hudawg]

3 hours ago, tonko said:

This is false. Either you're lying or didn't encounter that many  "pop in, pop out" Slippery players. 90% of players are using it to get shotgun kills. Card is unbalanced regardless of how much you try to sugarcoat it.

Nothing I said is false.

 

I use slippery bastard and use free aim.   WTF is "pop in, pop out"?     For me, it doesn't matter if they pop in or pop out.  For me its just a guy diving...

 

Card is not 'unbalanced'.. You just over rely on auto aim.   Regardless of how much you want to act like SB is the problem, you missing SHOTS is your problem not the card.  

 

Besides, most players use PIB. NOT SB.

 

If anything Slippery Bastard needs a buff.  

 

 

 

3 hours ago, tonko said:

No teamwork or strategy needed. Just have the said card, chug tonics and voila! That's it. I did it yesterday with a friend in Spoils of War. We activated SB, they tried to grapple him, knife him while i casually walked in and took the bag. Piece of cake.

You're not just going to 'chug a tonic and casually walk in and take a bag' without getting blasted to hell if playing against any player with a shred of actual aiming skills... OR even a drunk person with PIB.

 

Like holy sh*t man.. PIB is a card that works very easily against SB.    And even without it .. MANUAL AIM is NOT that complicated.

 

 

[tonko]

2 hours ago, Hudawg said:

Nothing I said is false.

 

I use slippery bastard and use free aim.   WTF is "pop in, pop out"?     For me, it doesn't matter if they pop in or pop out.  For me its just a guy diving...

 

 

Oh it's false, trust me. Or you discovered lobbies where players use SB exclusively for free aim. My experience is different, i mostly get "pop in, pop out" guys.

 

By the way "pop in pop out" is infamous SB tactic where 90% of players use SB in following steps:

1. activate SB

2. get close

3. pop out of SB

4. shotgun

[ALifeOfMisery]

7 minutes ago, tonko said:

Oh it's false, trust me. Or you discovered lobbies where players use SB exclusively for free aim. My experience is different, i mostly get "pop in, pop out" guys.

 

By the way "pop in pop out" is infamous SB tactic where 90% of players use SB in following steps:

1. activate SB

2. get close

3. pop out of SB

4. shotgun

1. activate SB

2. get close

3. pop out of SB

3.5. Use auto aim

4. shotgun

[Hudawg]

35 minutes ago, tonko said:

Oh it's false, trust me. Or you discovered lobbies where players use SB exclusively for free aim. My experience is different, i mostly get "pop in, pop out" guys.

 

By the way "pop in pop out" is infamous SB tactic where 90% of players use SB in following steps:

1. activate SB

2. get close

3. pop out of SB

4. shotgun

 

1.).  90% of the players don't use SB.  They use PIB.  And PIB is the easy counter to SB.    In your case I think you only remember SB because you over rely on auto aim and that is your weakness in terms of pvp.    So you naturally dislike SB.  

 

2.) I use SB.  So someone whos using SB to POP in and OUT and use Auto Aim against me is wasting their time.  Because if im using SB, they can't auto aim me regardless of how many times they pop in and out.    Its just a player flopping around.. 

 

The best way to use SB is to use free aim with it.   And the reality is PIB is the simple counter to SB.   Because when I do play pvp modes, I always get killed by PIB.    SB is not god mode.  Alls it does is remove auto aim.   

Edited August 24, 2019 by Hudawg

[MRMBF]

Again the problem is Ability cards, I wouldn't mind PvE based ability cards which feel like skills for your character but nonsense cards that clearly ruin PvP should not be a thing.

 

As I've said RDR1 didn't need them and the showdowns in that game were a much better experience. Also dead eye was not something to heavily rely on like it is now.

 

Disable ability cards in showdowns

 

Disable dead eye in showdowns

 

Disable auto aim in showdowns or at least tune down the strength and range of it

 

That'll seperate the boys from the men

 

Also explosive and incendiary ammo in showdowns is ridiculous, it puts everyone who doesn't want to cash out on a pamphlet at a disadvantage, especially new guys.

 

Just hope for more PvE content to get into tbh. The world needs to feel more alive. 

[tonko]

19 minutes ago, Hudawg said:

 

1.).  90% of the players don't use SB.  They use PIB.  And PIB is the easy counter to SB.    In your case I think you only remember SB because you over rely on auto aim and that is your weakness in terms of pvp.    So you naturally dislike SB.  

Let's avoid the route where we say the same things in 10 posts. Like i said, you've been very fortunate if you say that 90% of players don't use SB. My experience, and the experience of most of the other players is the exact opposite. In our case 90% of players do the "pop in,pop out" tactic with SB.

 

And can you please stop with wild assumptions about auto aim and free aim preferences and skills. You tried that already with some other guy few pages back. I wrote atleast 100 times that this game needs Free Aim lobbies like in RDR 1.

 

10 minutes ago, MRMBF said:

Again the problem is Ability cards, I wouldn't mind PvE based ability cards which feel like skills for your character but nonsense cards that clearly ruin PvP should not be a thing.

 

As I've said RDR1 didn't need them and the showdowns in that game were a much better experience. Also dead eye was not something to heavily rely on like it is now.

 

Disable ability cards in showdowns

 

Disable dead eye in showdowns

 

Disable auto aim in showdowns or at least tune down the strength and range of it

 

That'll seperate the boys from the men

 

Also explosive and incendiary ammo in showdowns is ridiculous, it puts everyone who doesn't want to cash out on a pamphlet at a disadvantage, especially new guys.

 

Just hope for more PvE content to get into tbh. The world needs to feel more alive. 

Amen brother, nothing to add. It worked before (RDR 1).

Edited August 24, 2019 by tonko

[Hudawg]

3 minutes ago, tonko said:

Let's avoid the route where we say the same things in 10 posts. Like i said, you've been very fortunate if you say that 90% of players don't use SB. My experience, and the experience of most of the other players is the exact opposite. In our case 90% of players do the "pop in,pop out" tactic with SB.

 

And can you please stop with wild assumptions about auto aim and free aim preferences and skills. You tried that already with some other guy few pages back,. I wrote atleast 100 times that this game needs Free Aim lobbies like in RDR 1.

 

 

How am I fortunate that most players use PIB when im using SB?     When its the easy counter to SB..

 

Besides, You're not counting players, you're basically pulling numbers out of your ass and claiming 90% of the players use SB.  Which is flat out false.  Most players use PIB, SB is also used a lot.  But PIB is the main card people use.  And player also swap ability cards on the fly. Nothing is stopping anyone from doing the same.

 

 

SB giving you a problem?  Swap to PIB.  Need to be auto aim free for a bit.. Swap to SB.  It takes a few seconds in cover to swap cards.  And everyone above lvl 50 can do the same thing anytime they want.  

 

So I can't really stop pointing out that players who complain most about SB are players who heavily rely on auto aim.  Because their whole reasoning for hating SB is because they can't lock on with auto aim.  No doubt they also use WIDE locking auto aim.  Which basically covers the bulk of the screen when pressing LT.  

 

[ALifeOfMisery]

42 minutes ago, Hudawg said:

So I can't really stop pointing out that players who complain most about SB are players who heavily rely on auto aim.  Because their whole reasoning for hating SB is because they can't lock on with auto aim.  No doubt they also use WIDE locking auto aim.  Which basically covers the bulk of the screen when pressing LT.  

I don't want to presume to speak for @tonko, but I think what they are getting at is the pop in/pop out tactic used by a lot of SB users. I see this a lot myself, I'm not going to throw out any stats or percentages when I have no figures, but in my own anecdotal experience, I do encounter a lot of players using this tactic. Interestingly enough, these players are also relying on auto aim as they pop out of dead eye specifically to use auto aim and usually a shotgun.

 

You're correct that this can be fairly easily countered by PIB. I'm sh*te at PvP, but players from here have witnessed me win/MVP in showdowns and I just run PIB against SB users, I'll paint them before they get within range for their tactics to be effective.

 

I'd still change SB, I'd make it passively active at all times, meaning the player using it is effectively playing free aim, but it can't be disabled without switching cards, so no popping out to auto aim. I'd also give it a bloom reduction when dead eye is activated.

Edited August 24, 2019 by ALifeOfMisery

[TyrionV]

8 hours ago, tonko said:

No teamwork or strategy needed. Just have the said card, chug tonics and voila! That's it. I did it yesterday with a friend in Spoils of War. We activated SB, they tried to grapple him, knife him while i casually walked in and took the bag. Piece of cake.

 

What you just described doing was a strategy and teamwork that you and your friend carried out!

[tonko]

2 hours ago, Hudawg said:

SB giving you a problem?  Swap to PIB.  Need to be auto aim free for a bit.. Swap to SB.  It takes a few seconds in cover to swap cards.  And everyone above lvl 50 can do the same thing anytime they want.  

 

SB a problem? Not for me. You remember that "pop in and out" with SB i mentioned earlier? I spam it all the time and get loads of kills, works like a charm. But it's unfair to new, low level players. But i'll keep doing it until R* does something about it. 

 

1 hour ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

I don't want to presume to speak for @tonko, but I think what they are getting at is the pop in/pop out tactic used by a lot of SB users. I see this a lot myself, I'm not going to throw out any stats or percentages when I have no figures, but in my own anecdotal experience, I do encounter a lot of players using this tactic. Interestingly enough, these players are also relying on auto aim as they pop out of dead eye specifically to use auto aim and usually a shotgun.

That's what i'm trying to point out last few posts mate.

 

But this guy keeps dragging people into auto vs free aim debate and repeats the same stuff over and over lol.

32 minutes ago, TyrionV said:

 

What you just described doing was a strategy and teamwork that you and your friend carried out!

If you say so. All we did was spam SB and while the opposing team tried to outrun him, i snatched the bag. You say strategy, i say ridiculous PVP concept. But yeah, i get that, some might see it as strategy. 

[wehweh01]

9 minutes ago, tonko said:

But this guy keeps dragging people into auto vs free aim debate and repeats the same stuff over and over lol.

I think it's the ideas most of these autoaimers keep throwing on the table regarding nerfs to Slippery. As a Freeaimer I'd be more than happy to see it become a "Freeaim" only card. However, we keep seeing ill conceived ideas such as making Slippery deactivate prior to shooting or even more drain on card use. 

There's a whole slew of people saying they'd rather not see cards at all. Others showing support for separate lobbies. However, that's nothing to do with Slippery nerfs. Topic is completely derailed. 

[ALifeOfMisery]

12 minutes ago, tonko said:

auto vs free aim debate

For me the auto aim vs free aim debate is as pointless and tedious as the whole PC master race/console peasant schtick.

 

I'm not going to attempt to say that there's no skill involved in free aiming on console, there definitely is, far more skill than auto aiming, but, as someone who grew up on keyboard and mouse PC gaming, console free aim seems far to much of a masochistic endeavour for me to put any more than the absolute minimum time and effort into.

 

In games like RDO on console I simply want to pick up and play and get to a point where I can hold my own in structured PvP and freeroam PvP, if I really have to. 

1 minute ago, wehweh01 said:

There's a whole slew of people saying they'd rather not see cards at all. Others showing support for separate lobbies.

Ideally yeah, in both cases.

1 minute ago, wehweh01 said:

Topic is completely derailed. 

Completely agree. Apologies for my part in this.

[Hudawg]

20 hours ago, tonko said:

SB a problem? Not for me. You remember that "pop in and out" with SB i mentioned earlier? I spam it all the time and get loads of kills, works like a charm. But it's unfair to new, low level players. But i'll keep doing it until R* does something about it. 

The only thing that needs to be done is for R* to add proper lobbies based on aim.  And allow hosted lobbies/private lobbies with rules to suit taste.

 

I mean, I don't care about low level players.  They need to level up and  learn how to play.  Just like everyone else.    Any game with levels and unlocks will be unfair to low level players.

 

And again, that SB thing you mentioned.    If you used against me, it won't work.   I use SB, so you get no lock on.   If I wanted to, I could just use PIB and blast you.   So what are you talking about my dude?   Its not like im special, anyone with access to those cards can do the same and we all have access to the same cards.

 

Besides, this isn't a Auto aim vs free aim debate.  Im just pointing out that people who complain about SB are doing so because they can't lock on to players.   Only 4 things avoid lock on in this game.  Diving, Range, Cover and Slippery Bastard.   

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Hudawg

[Tmb23shots]

It needs to comeback for free aimers