Should Slippery Bastard be Nerfed.

[AmyStone]

4 hours ago, wehweh01 said:

You do realize that some people don't use Aim Assist. I use 100% Freeaim settings. There's a whole community that play this way because they feel it's more fun. Meanwhile, we get no enjoyment when we press a button and the game does everything for you except pull the trigger.

The game does loads of things for you. I suppose aiming is the only thing you don't want made easier. That's fine.

[Leftover Pizza]

On 7/25/2019 at 10:33 AM, Rico263 said:

I'm just on this because I'm really annoyed there's no way to defend well against a person using this ability.

 

It shouldn't be nerfed. It should be removed, like all the other cards. 

[Gray-Hand]

The cards are how you customise your character.  They are no different to using different types of weapon or ammunition. Without the cards, we are all playing the same character.

 

There might be an argument to modifying or nerfing slippery bastard (maybe making it passive and making an enemy’s reticule shrink slower or something less dramatic than cancelling auto aim), but getting rid of all ability cards is not the answer.

 

Without ability cards, there is essentially zero progression for a character other than  buying a new gun or recipe pamphlet.

[AmyStone]

What I'd like to know is how some players can stay slippery for ages. All I can manage is about 15 seconds before my dead eye is drained. I see players staying in it for minutes on end.

[wehweh01]

12 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

What I'd like to know is how some players can stay slippery for ages. All I can manage is about 15 seconds before my dead eye is drained. I see players staying in it for minutes on end.

At rank 3 it lasts for about 25 seconds (including a full dead eye core). Unblinking eye adds about 10 seconds on top of that. A full or gold dead eye core can add a few more seconds on top of that.

[user x]

Dude, just run and use tonic for your dead eye. until you're close to the victim The cards also bother me but that's the game. But there are solutions. I think the balance is like this: 45% Skill cards. 55% Your ability. Example: A worm appears. Are you good with free aim? You will almost certainly be able to with him. Do you handle it wrong? Card game ! Paint it black with cropped shotguns, that annoying enough will not last you for 2 seconds. otherwise the bastard will dump his 45% chance with some more of the experience he will have with that card. I'm sorry, guys, but that's the way it works. I also think that painting it black should be nerfeado, any revolver looks like a sniper with this card. My advice is to try the cards until you feel comfortable with one, and maybe they should change their weapons too!

[tonko]

9 hours ago, Gray-Hand said:

The cards are how you customise your character.  They are no different to using different types of weapon or ammunition. Without the cards, we are all playing the same character.

You do realize everyone is spamming the same 3 cards, right? PIB, SNS and Sippery. So basically 90% players are playing the same way. 

[Gray-Hand]

8 minutes ago, tonko said:

You do realize everyone is spamming the same 3 cards, right? PIB, SNS and Sippery. So basically 90% players are playing the same way. 

90% of players are using 3 dead eye cards simultaneously?

[ALifeOfMisery]

6 minutes ago, tonko said:

You do realize everyone is spamming the same 3 cards, right? PIB, SNS and Sippery. So basically 90% players are playing the same way. 

Exactly. R* might have intended them to play a part in character customization, but most of the cards are useless or at the very least underpowered in comparison to the main set of cards most players run.

 

I don't play much PvP at all, which gave me a bit more freedom in creating a build tailored towards hunting and PvE, but most players in PvP settings are running a build made up of 4 out of the 6-8 cards that are actually useful. 

Just now, Gray-Hand said:

90% of players are using 3 dead eye cards simultaneously?

No. @tonko clearly meant that most players are running one of those three cards, but you knew that, right?

 

Even out of those three, S&S use declined after it got nerfed. It's all about PIB & SB in PvP situations.

[Gray-Hand]

3 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

Exactly. R* might have intended them to play a part in character customization, but most of the cards are useless or at the very least underpowered in comparison to the main set of cards most players run.

 

I don't play much PvP at all, which gave me a bit more freedom in creating a build tailored towards hunting and PvE, but most players in PvP settings are running a build made up of 4 out of the 6-8 cards that are actually useful. 

No. @tonko clearly meant that most players are running one of those three cards, but you knew that, right?

 

Even out of those three, S&S use declined after it got nerfed. It's all about PIB & SB in PvP situations.

No - because his post makes no sense otherwise.  90% of PvP players using 50% of the cards is a pretty decent spread, given that PVE is also part of the game.

[tonko]

22 minutes ago, Gray-Hand said:

No - because his post makes no sense otherwise.  90% of PvP players using 50% of the cards is a pretty decent spread, given that PVE is also part of the game.

 

33 minutes ago, Gray-Hand said:

90% of players are using 3 dead eye cards simultaneously?

[Gray-Hand]

1 minute ago, tonko said:

 

So 90% of players are playing one of 3 cards:

1.  PIB which is focussed on shooting;

2.  Slow & Steady which allows them to tank damage; or

3.  Slippery Bastard which relies on evasiveness.

 

That’s 3 distinct styles of play. 

[XxJazzy42xX]

17 hours ago, ThaBirdCoot said:

My nigz, all we need is GTA IV type matchmaking options without the sh*t host system from back then when people were asleep for days and you had to hope eventually they wake up or that the rest of the players get the kick votes in. Would be totally achievable. Furthermore it would be nice to have options like for weather, density of wildlife weapon choice like no explosives ect. And obviously the aim prefs. Like @tonko said above it is always mindboggling how older games got more stuff right. R* are regressing.

Yeah only aim type is the thing I could see that would need separate lobbies and everything else should be changeable by the host from ability cards to the weather or time of day. In order for this to happen though we need host options for the Showdown Playlists instead of what we have now. While you're at it you might as well throw in different separate showdown mode playlists for example a playlist for Up in Smoke only or Spoils of War only.

[XxJazzy42xX]

3 hours ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

Exactly. R* might have intended them to play a part in character customization, but most of the cards are useless or at the very least underpowered in comparison to the main set of cards most players run.

 

I don't play much PvP at all, which gave me a bit more freedom in creating a build tailored towards hunting and PvE, but most players in PvP settings are running a build made up of 4 out of the 6-8 cards that are actually useful. 

No. @tonko clearly meant that most players are running one of those three cards, but you knew that, right?

 

Even out of those three, S&S use declined after it got nerfed. It's all about PIB & SB in PvP situations.

Still see S&S a little bit. Like every 5 or 6 matches. I know people hate SB because its hard to counter, but in Showdown mode on a team unless matchmaking screws you players rarely play alone. I mean come on......haven't you seen a PIB and SB tag team on Spoils of War. The popular play is send in the SB player and keep the PIB character or characters on look out and defend the SB character pretty dope play in my opinion, but don't let the SB player know how to defend themselves and run free aim a bit with revolvers or shotgun and they are running the same play.......now its a headache. I've seen some dope plays by teams in the past not so more now, because PvP is barely fun with friends as it is now so.....hunting it is.

 

@tonko I knew what he meant. Even though @Gray-Hand has a point as well. Those cards compliment 3 different styles and individuals who use these cards play different. There are also different "off the rail" ways to play Slippery Bastard alone besides "elusiveness".....some people use it to force people to deal with them in free aim and people use it in a more aggressive way to storm players and sometimes at the same time to get away from an unwinnable fight or to run away with cargo. Now @tonko has a point in a sense of variety where people all play the same way WITHIN THESE THREE STYLES which all CAN lead down to longevity.....to last longer in the match before "biting the dust" or "taking that dive" WHILE playing aggressive(not the only play style, but the usual monster you cross). You can also make that case for Focus Fire, Quite an Inspiration, A Moment to Recuperate which those 3 can help with the aggressive play style......just not as good as the other 3 and are easily countered. Some of the best controllers of the battlefield run S&S, SB, and PIB with an occasional FF(Focus Fire). So in a sense @Gray-Hand and @tonko have their points.

[ALifeOfMisery]

1 minute ago, XxJazzy42xX said:

Still see S&S a little bit. Like every 5 or 6 matches. I know people hate SB because its hard to counter, but in Showdown mode on a team unless matchmaking screws you players rarely play alone. I mean come on......haven't you seen a PIB and SB tag team on Spoils of War. The popular play is send in the SB player and keep the PIB character or characters on look out and defend the SB character pretty dope play in my opinion, but don't let the SB player know how to defend themselves and run free aim a bit with revolvers or shotgun and they are running the same play.......now its a headache. I've seen some dope plays by teams in the past not so more now, because PvP is barely fun with friends as it is now so.....hunting it is.

I'm almost ashamed to admit that I'm one of the SB players in Spoils. I hate myself for it but f*ck it, a win is a win I guess.

[AmyStone]

4 hours ago, tonko said:

You do realize everyone is spamming the same 3 cards, right? PIB, SNS and Sippery. So basically 90% players are playing the same way. 

You can't use more than one deadeye card at one time.

[XxJazzy42xX]

6 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

I'm almost ashamed to admit that I'm one of the SB players in Spoils. I hate myself for it but f*ck it, a win is a win I guess.

Don't be though.....you know I hate ability cards, but I love em when people use them to play for the team and use different ones to compliment each other......I don't have a problem with people who run SB, because I can stop em with free aim or slow em down. I ran SB as well too to force people into free aim fights against me and then some.....I have an aggressive play style that has judgement calls that changes from risky to careful depending on mode and whether we are winning or losing.When you have a PIB player and a SB player on the same  team who understand the objective its great thing to see. I've fell victim to some of the best teams who put together some dope plays. It makes for great experience when you can put that together. When I ran SB on Up in Smoke I ran in and dropped off my bag of explosives and stayed there and cleaned out the rest of the people around the objective spot so 2 other players following up behind me who had on S&S at the time could get theirs in. I only like 1 reason ability cards are even around and that is the team play that happens.

[AmyStone]

20 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

I'm almost ashamed to admit that I'm one of the SB players in Spoils. I hate myself for it but f*ck it, a win is a win I guess.

It depends what you call a win. It doesn't bother me if my team wins or loses and it's all about the kills for me. I'm one of the players that stays at the back of Railroad Barron and gets 40+ kills. That's 2,000 XP for 'losing' instead of around 600XP for 'winning'.

[ALifeOfMisery]

1 minute ago, AmyStone said:

It depends what you call a win. It doesn't bother me if my team wins or loses and it's all about the kills for me. I'm one of the players that stays at the back of Railroad Barron and gets 40+ kills. That's 2,000 XP for 'losing' instead of around 600XP for 'winning'.

I only play showdowns and freeroam events for daily challenges, while I'm there I'll try achieve the objective of the mode I'm playing.

 

Can't fault your XP grind though, the last time I played Railroad Baron more players seemed to be playing your way than mine.

[XxJazzy42xX]

Just now, ALifeOfMisery said:

I only play showdowns and freeroam events for daily challenges, while I'm there I'll try achieve the objective of the mode I'm playing.

 

Can't fault your XP grind though, the last time I played Railroad Baron more players seemed to be playing your way than mine.

Are you a player that likes to get in close or play at a distance?

[ALifeOfMisery]

Just now, XxJazzy42xX said:

Are you a player that likes to get in close or play at a distance?

Depends on the game mode and if it's a team mode, what other players are doing.

 

I'd rather be the guy running SB, darting around, getting up close, but if I see a couple of players already doing that I'll switch to PIB + Springfield or Shotgun.

 

If we could actually choose between team or free for all I'd play more showdowns. I dislike free for all, partly because I suck at it, but mostly I just enjoy team modes far more. 

[AmyStone]

4 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

more players seemed to be playing your way than mine.

Most players do now because they realise it's more lucrative (and more fun for me) to stay back instead of getting frustrated trying to get on the train.

[XxJazzy42xX]

2 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

Most players do now because they realise it's more lucrative (and more fun for me) to stay back instead of getting frustrated trying to get on the train.

Its best to step back in that mode. Just for real life health reason.

3 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

Depends on the game mode and if it's a team mode, what other players are doing.

 

I'd rather be the guy running SB, darting around, getting up close, but if I see a couple of players already doing that I'll switch to PIB + Springfield or Shotgun.

 

If we could actually choose between team or free for all I'd play more showdowns. I dislike free for all, partly because I suck at it, but mostly I just enjoy team modes far more. 

I see. I like playing mid range.....I love using my repeater and if need be catch em off guard up close some times I don't need SB for close counters just every now an again. 

[tonko]

1 hour ago, AmyStone said:

You can't use more than one deadeye card at one time.

Do i need to post Dr. Evil gif again? 

 

"You do realize everyone is spamming the same 3 cards, right? PIB, SNS and Sippery. So basically 90% players are playing the same way."  When wrote this as a reply to CARDS ENCOURAGE DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES, i meant that statement is completely false cause players you face in Showdowns always use the same 3 cards. You see a guy with PIB, guy with SNS or a guy with SB. I didn't meant that 1 guy uses those 3 cards.

 

And it gets tedious cause they all perform the same playstyle. Maybe cards were initially implemented for variety but that's not the case at the moment. 

3 hours ago, XxJazzy42xX said:

 While you're at it you might as well throw in different separate showdown mode playlists for example a playlist for Up in Smoke only or Spoils of War only.

Another thing RDR multiplayer had. Bag modes were separated from Gang Shootouts. I repeat, a 9 years older brother had that(among other things) 

[Ronzilla.]

Paint it black completely shuts down Slippery, and renders it useless. Paint it Black hard counters Slippery, but the real question is: what hard counters Paint it Black? 

[ALifeOfMisery]

7 minutes ago, Ronzilla. said:

but the real question is: what hard counters Paint it Black? 

Afaik the only way is to switch to Defensive mode in freeroam. In Showdowns there's no way to counter it.

[The Dedito Gae]

16 minutes ago, Ronzilla. said:

Paint it black completely shuts down Slippery, and renders it useless. Paint it Black hard counters Slippery, but the real question is: what hard counters Paint it Black? 

If you are lucky, never without one.

Edited August 13, 2019 by The Deadite

[XxJazzy42xX]

32 minutes ago, Ronzilla. said:

Paint it black completely shuts down Slippery, and renders it useless. Paint it Black hard counters Slippery, but the real question is: what hard counters Paint it Black? 

Really? I believe you its just I use SB and PIB players can't shut me down. They might get me at most twice per match. They must super duper trash.

24 minutes ago, The Deadite said:

If you are lucky, never without one.

I have never without one. Maybe thats why.

[gtmike]

Slippery bastard ruins every single showdown I've ever been in. What should be a hard fought battle of inches between two teams becomes a bunch of asshats streaking across the field using magic powers.

 

The fact that the SB user can pop out anytime they choose and get aim assist is what makes it really overpowered and silly though. The nerf should be that if you have SB equipped, you lose the ability to use aim assist altogether.

 

But that's still mixing assisted and free aim in the same lobbies which is about the stupidest idea I have ever seen implemented in a game. PvP is what drives online games (for the most part) and this game will continue to come up short in that area as long as these ability cards remain. If you look at the trends, it's clear people want a fully even playing field where skill and strategy are the only deciding factors. RDO does not have that, not even close.

 

As for the "different character builds" argument, give me a break. This isn't f*cking World of Warcraft, and if that's what they're going for here, they've failed miserably.

[wehweh01]

36 minutes ago, gtmike said:

Slippery bastard ruins every single showdown I've ever been in. What should be a hard fought battle of inches between two teams becomes a bunch of asshats streaking across the field using magic powers.

 

The fact that the SB user can pop out anytime they choose and get aim assist is what makes it really overpowered and silly though. The nerf should be that if you have SB equipped, you lose the ability to use aim assist altogether.

 

But that's still mixing assisted and free aim in the same lobbies which is about the stupidest idea I have ever seen implemented in a game. PvP is what drives online games (for the most part) and this game will continue to come up short in that area as long as these ability cards remain. If you look at the trends, it's clear people want a fully even playing field where skill and strategy are the only deciding factors. RDO does not have that, not even close.

 

As for the "different character builds" argument, give me a break. This isn't f*cking World of Warcraft, and if that's what they're going for here, they've failed miserably.

I've been wanting Slippery to become a Freeaim only card this whole time. However, as far as the magic cards going away...come on this is Rockstar we talking about. Monetization will always play a factor.

 

The mixed lobby is here to stay. My biggest gripe about the game is why can't we see fellow friendly players on the map? So called "Griefers" should just not see anyone period regardless of distance but that's just me.