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What kind of protagonist do you want?


The Holy Diver

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2 minutes ago, The Coconut Kid said:

This is an interesting point.

 

I haven't considered it before now but an ex-competition athlete has protagonist material.

 

There are discipline and dedication and then there's also the need to put bread on the table when you're fighting once every two-to-three months, your purse is £1,000 at best and your expenses leave you operating at a loss.

 

The likes of Anthony Joshua and Connor McGregor with multi-million purses & sponsorships will never have to stand on a door in their life, but there will always be an oversupply of skilled martial artists to the security industry and local thugs will always see this as their fertile ground for recruiting debt collectors and standover men. Many will put their time and energy into becoming a trained fighter only to find that their skills (and reputation) are only profitable on the muscle market. And this could be a great place to build a protagonist and their psyche from.

Sounds like a Saints Row game.

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9 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

For example, Serbian war veterans probably only make up a small minority of New York criminals. But as a one off GTA protagonist it works as an interesting new angle.

 Oh, this. As Simeon would put it, "That I could not have said better myself". And about women being less physically strong - yeah, good thing we have all those Great Equalisers (as in, guns) just lying around the street.

 

Back on topic, though, I wouldn't mind any protagonist, as long as he's interesting. Or at least not annoying (but thus far even Trevor hasn't annoyed me).

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Grotti Vigilante
2 hours ago, The Coconut Kid said:

This is an interesting point.

 

I haven't considered it before now but an ex-competition athlete has protagonist material.

 

There are discipline and dedication and then there's also the need to put bread on the table when you're fighting once every two-to-three months, your purse is £1,000 at best and your expenses leave you operating at a loss.

 

The likes of Anthony Joshua and Connor McGregor with multi-million purses & sponsorships will never have to stand on a door in their life, but there will always be an oversupply of skilled martial artists to the security industry and local thugs will always see this as their fertile ground for recruiting debt collectors and standover men. Many will put their time and energy into becoming a trained fighter only to find that their skills (and reputation) are only profitable on the muscle market. And this could be a great place to build a protagonist and their psyche from.

An interesting concept I will admit, and being a martial artist gives them the right kind of aggression that isn’t just spiralling uncontrolled psychopathy like Trevor, but more controlled and used for intimidation, and such a protagonist is more likely to be a hitman than a gangster. Personally I still think this role would have to be male, but that is a matter that I’ve debated so much at this point and thus I will not go repeat everything I’ve already said. None of our minds will change anyway. I also think any protagonist in this role would probably be better suited to being a bouncer even rather than a criminal, but that’s just my own personal preference. 

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Pablo Escobar-esque, real menacing guy, like he is in Narcos

 

hes the type of character who would actually kill police & people on the street

h4BCUkP.jpg

He could also start more normal and then turn into psychopath because of the drug business

Edited by GRANDHEIST
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On 7/19/2019 at 2:50 AM, The Coconut Kid said:

This is an interesting point.

 

I haven't considered it before now but an ex-competition athlete has protagonist material.

 

There are discipline and dedication and then there's also the need to put bread on the table when you're fighting once every two-to-three months, your purse is £1,000 at best and your expenses leave you operating at a loss.

 

The likes of Anthony Joshua and Connor McGregor with multi-million purses & sponsorships will never have to stand on a door in their life, but there will always be an oversupply of skilled martial artists to the security industry and local thugs will always see this as their fertile ground for recruiting debt collectors and standover men. Many will put their time and energy into becoming a trained fighter only to find that their skills (and reputation) are only profitable on the muscle market. And this could be a great place to build a protagonist and their psyche from.

 An ex boxer could work. Boxing has always been pretty dirty. Take a fall during a fight for the Mob so they could get some money and maybe help the protagonist pay off some debts.

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Pretty sure I've said this in another thread, but I'll post it again.

 

I'd love to see w character like Hanzee Dent from Fargo season 2 as the protagonist. A native American who for his whole life been looked down upon for not being considered an "American" and has just had enough. A hardened and scarred man with a sympathetic side, who won't show any mercy in the face adversity.

 

It would give them a brand new opportunity to show a different side to the American Dream.

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On 7/13/2019 at 8:34 AM, TheSpectre said:

Who said they were going to continue the HD universe? They could be starting another for all we know. 

I really really hope they do so. They should stop with this universe bull.

And back to the topic. I kinda like the idea of creating your own character but it has it's limits..

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As again, I would love a very customizable Male and Female. A female with customizable plastic surgery etc. (im serious lol) and an Male with lots of hairstyles and sh*t. As origin American, lol.

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SinisterRaccoon
On 7/19/2019 at 8:06 AM, Beato_dim said:

 Oh, this. As Simeon would put it, "That I could not have said better myself". And about women being less physically strong - yeah, good thing we have all those Great Equalisers (as in, guns) just lying around the street.

 

Back on topic, though, I wouldn't mind any protagonist, as long as he's interesting. Or at least not annoying (but thus far even Trevor hasn't annoyed me).

 

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Two ways I would like to see them go:

 

First way (the easy option):

Lean hard into the professional armed robber story.  No organised crime or gang affiliations - just a professional crew of armed robbers like the movie Heat.

 

Rockstar kind of dipped their toe into it in GTAV, but the story was a bit all over the place due to the disparity of the 3 protagonists.  Just keep the story tighter and keep it tied to the jobs.  Make the heist set pieces the story.

 

Do some jobs stealing money (establish that the protagonists are competent), do some jobs as favours for other people (add some story and drama), do some jobs that fail (raise the stakes), do some jobs to rectify the failures (climax and resolution).

 

No climbing the ranks of the criminal underworld - I like those stories, they are awesome, but GTA has done enough of them.  The satisfaction in this story would come not from constructing an underworld empire but gaining freedom from that life for the main protagonist and those he cares about.

 

Second way, the trickier option:

Ordinary person with no criminal background gets thrust into the criminal underworld and thrives. The rockstar version of Breaking Bad.  This probably would involve some empire building, but it would feel a bit fresher due to the protagonist being different to the regular GTA hoodlum already ensconced in the underworld.

 

The protagonist(s) can be of any demographic that Rockstar are capable of handling well.  They have done a good job with men of different ages and all types of different ethnicities in the past, so whatever they feel like is fine there.  I’m not sure we need another 30-45 year old dark haired Caucasian male with permastubble.

 

Having said that, I wouldn’t be enthusiastic for a female protagonist for a GTA game for a couple of reasons:

 

1. Masculinity is a theme of the GTA games.  Exploring issues of the nature of masculinity, relationships between men sand toxic masculinity is part of what every GTA game and every GTA protagonist is about.  It is something that the writers actually do  good job with, and it really needs a male protagonist to do it properly.

 

2. I have little confidence that Rockstar can write a good female protagonist.  I don’t think the Housers want to tell the story of a female protagonist, and if that’s the case, they shouldn’t try to force it.

 

Video games do need more diversity, and GTA has done that reasonably well in terms of the age of its protagonists and very well in terms of their ethnicity.  The treatment of women has been an issue in the past, but given what we saw in RDR2, I suspect that will be corrected in GTA6.  A female protagonist is not the way to go though.

 

The argument that a female protagonist wouldn’t work in a video game because women aren’t as physically capable as men in real life is silly.  The protagonists in all of Rockstar’s titles over the last decade have all literally had special superpowers that make them more competent than a normal human.

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I think it could be interesting to have a protagonist that's more on board with the dumb suggestions that get thrown their way. In most of the past games, the protagonist is usually aware that what they're being told to do probably isn't going to go the way the mission boss wants it to, but they go along with it anyway, shaking their head as they do, right? And that's not really much fun to watch and its a dynamic that gets kind of tiring after a while

 

My favorite set of missions from GTA V are the movie studio ones just because Micheal is having a genuinely good time in them. He's into it! And it'd be cool to have the protagonist be a little less begrudging about what it is their doing, or even about the end goal of what they're trying to achieve by doing the work they're doing

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I personally have faith that Rockstar could write a compelling female protogainst its not like they're making it all up from scratch they've got plenty of real world refrences like Jemker Thomas, Griselda Blaco and I think gangland did an episode on female gangbangers. A female running around kicking was wouldn't be any worse than a methead eating a cartel leaders ear and not being firelaced.

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Another GTA Fan
On 7/21/2019 at 8:15 PM, ChenChanechi said:

As again, I would love a very customizable Male and Female. A female with customizable plastic surgery etc. (im serious lol) and an Male with lots of hairstyles and sh*t. As origin American, lol.

Interestingly there is a thing in GTA called 'Creative Plastic Sugery' as heard on the radio in SA at least, so that's actually not as a silly idea as I originally thought.

 

Anyway, I still don't understand why some people get in arms about what race and gender they want the next GTA character to be, as long as they're Human, does it matter? All I want is one that doesn't whine a lot and ain't a pushover. Somewhere along the lines of a Tommy Vercetti personality. I mean, CJ whined too much, Trevor was overly crazy, Claude was too stoic, etc. I'd just like to see another GTA character liek Tommy, whether it be male or female; Both could work.

 

Really if anything is important in a GTA character, it's the personality, not what nationality or gender they are.

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Grotti Vigilante
1 hour ago, Recommended said:

Interestingly there is a thing in GTA called 'Creative Plastic Sugery' as heard on the radio in SA at least, so that's actually not as a silly idea as I originally thought.

 

Anyway, I still don't understand why some people get in arms about what race and gender they want the next GTA character to be, as long as they're Human, does it matter? All I want is one that doesn't whine a lot and ain't a pushover. Somewhere along the lines of a Tommy Vercetti personality. I mean, CJ whined too much, Trevor was overly crazy, Claude was too stoic, etc. I'd just like to see another GTA character liek Tommy, whether it be male or female; Both could work.

 

Really if anything is important in a GTA character, it's the personality, not what nationality or gender they are.

But those last two characteristics are important, especially if you're dealing with a specific area of crime. Since Tommy was your reference point, you have to make him an Italian-American male simply because the mafia aren't anything else. If you want to do another gang banger from the hood, then you'd have to have a black/Latino male, because they aren't usually anything else. You want to do a biker like The Lost and Damned? Then you're probably gonna have a white male, cause bikers mostly are just that. I know it's become a thing nowadays where we'd rather disregard the race and gender of a character all together and focus on a well developed personality, to which that second part is all well and good since we do want a well-written character, but we forget that in some cases these are very important aspects when you're trying to do a compelling and realistic down-to-earth story. This applies to every from of fiction, especially if you're basing it off real things, which GTA often does. 

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Another GTA Fan
On 7/25/2019 at 4:18 PM, Grotti Vigilante said:

But those last two characteristics are important, especially if you're dealing with a specific area of crime. Since Tommy was your reference point, you have to make him an Italian-American male simply because the mafia aren't anything else. If you want to do another gang banger from the hood, then you'd have to have a black/Latino male, because they aren't usually anything else. You want to do a biker like The Lost and Damned? Then you're probably gonna have a white male, cause bikers mostly are just that. I know it's become a thing nowadays where we'd rather disregard the race and gender of a character all together and focus on a well developed personality, to which that second part is all well and good since we do want a well-written character, but we forget that in some cases these are very important aspects when you're trying to do a compelling and realistic down-to-earth story. This applies to every from of fiction, especially if you're basing it off real things, which GTA often does. 

I have to disagree there. You're pretty much just putting people into a labeled box due to nationality and gender. While I am not against the idea of Black characters being part of gangs and be involved in gang warfare, or Bikers being breaded white men; Sure I ain't against it and it's all well and good in video games, but the way you're wording this here is as if you believe it should be an absolute rule, but personally, that's becoming an outdated notion.


Put it this way. In terms of gangs, literally anyone can find themselves in a gang these days. Whether they're African/American, Chinese or Caucasian, it usually just depends on the individual, or upbringing if you will. It's down-to-earth either way.


There's nothing unrealistic about having a Chinese gangbanger, or an African Biker for example, the thing is, some people just ain't used to seeing it. If, however GTA games were based on lets say... ..the Japanese Empire way back then, then it would only make sense the characters should all be Japanese. That there would be realistic, not a race of Caucasians for such a game. But thing with GTA is it revolves around multicultural societies such as the USA.


By the way I didn't know GTA was a realistic down-to-earth game series. I'll have to remember that next time I see a Black man flying around on his Jetpack with a Hippy holding an Alien embryo, both of which that were stolen from the Military.


tl;dr Either race or gender would work fine in a GTA game that's set in a multicultural society. I wouldn't make an absolute rule for either side because it honestly shouldn't matter. It's all about personality if you ask me. It doesn't need to be a cliché where the villian must have that giant scar down one eye, but it doesn't matter either way as long as the personality is on point.

 

So as I said, I don't get why it's such a big deal for this game series. Male, Female, Black, White, whatever, just make their personality spot on and believable for the next game.

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Grotti Vigilante
2 hours ago, Recommended said:

I have to disagree there. You're pretty much just putting people into a labeled box due to nationality and gender. While I am not against the idea of Black characters being part of gangs and be involved in gang warfare, or Bikers being breaded white men; Sure I ain't against it and it's all well and good in video games, but the way you're wording this here is as if you believe it should be an absolute rule, but personally, that's becoming an outdated notion.


Put it this way. In terms of gangs, literally anyone can find themselves in a gang these days. Whether they're African/American, Chinese or Caucasian, it usually just depends on the individual, or upbringing if you will. It's down-to-earth either way.


There's nothing unrealistic about having a Chinese gangbanger, or an African Biker for example, the thing is, some people just ain't used to seeing it. If, however GTA games were based on lets say... ..the Japanese Empire way back then, then it would only make sense the characters should all be Japanese. That there would be realistic, not a race of Caucasians for such a game. But thing with GTA is it revolves around multicultural societies such as the USA.


By the way I didn't know GTA was a realistic down-to-earth game series. I'll have to remember that next time I see a Black man flying around on his Jetpack with a Hippy holding an Alien embryo, both of which that were stolen from the Military.


tl;dr Either race or gender would work fine in a GTA game that's set in a multicultural society. I wouldn't make an absolute rule for either side because it honestly shouldn't matter. It's all about personality if you ask me. It doesn't need to be a cliché where the villian must have that giant scar down one eye, but it doesn't matter either way as long as the personality is on point.

 

So as I said, I don't get why it's such a big deal for this game series. Male, Female, Black, White, whatever, just make their personality spot on and believable for the next game.

I was stating that, statistically speaking, it makes less sense to have certain kinds of protagonists in certain situations. Just because it's theoretically possible for someone of any race and gender to be involved doesn't mean they will be. Most street gangs are still black and Latino, most biker gangs are white, and most probably all mobsters are Italian-American. Your point about the Japanese Empire, oddly enough, actually proves me point that it would make no sense having a group of white people in such a game. One of the best parts of Assassin's Creed Origins was depicting Ancient Egyptians as not white. The US may be multicultural, but that doesn't mean the criminal world is. In some cases it's still largely a single group of certain people, depending on where you go. 

 

You say that anyone can find themselves in a gang these days, but if you tried to get a white man into Cosa Nostra they'd probably be thrown out the door. Just because a possible fringe group of individuals may exist doesn't mean it's a good basis for a character. I mean can you actually find me a real life example of a Chinese gangbanger? I'll wait, don't worry. If you want to talk about San Andreas unrealistic exploits, then believe me, there is a whole thread to be made from that. But Rockstar, most especially since GTA IV, have always tried to be realistic with their games, even despite some having the most over-the-top missions in the series. As game developers they've been trying to strike the delicate balance between realism and fun gameplay for many years.

 

I won't spend too much time arguing here, because I've never actually cared too much about the particular race or ethnicity of a GTA protagonist anyway, and have only wanted the race to fit the theme, such as an Italian-American for a mobster or Mexican/Colombian for a Cartel member. The race of the character is much less of a difference to previous ones than the gender. But if Rockstar wants to be realistic, they have to have certain characters of a certain race for certain situations just so the story can be more realistic and true to life. Now I have made several points as to why a protagonist can never be female, but that's not a discussion I'm not willing to get into again. I've argued and debated over it so much, even despite the fact I'm not actually willing to change my mind over the issue.

 

With regards to protagonists, I just want a relatively realistic character in a GTA game who embodies traditional masculine qualities, even the arguably toxic ones. Since personality matters to you, then I'm sure you'd be aware that having these qualities gives them the best chance at reaching the top of the criminal underworld, or at least the best chance of them surviving it. The best protagonists in the series (Niko, Johnny and Tommy) were stoic, aggressive, courageous and strong-willed. The worse written ones (Vic and Franklin) were just bland and weak individuals. Rockstar have proven capable of writing a good masculine character, but the only worry for me is whether they chose to do it again or carry on with boring individuals. 

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Another GTA Fan
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Your point about the Japanese Empire, oddly enough, actually proves me point.


I probably should have clarified this, my bad. Thing is for a game that involves a Japanese Empire, I'd expect such a game to be a Historically accurate or otherwise fantasy genré of game. It wouldn't be something a GTA game would be based on. (Was trying to make an example, I could have put it better)

 

Anyway, the whole thing about what's possible and such ain't really my original argument here. What I was originally saying was what the big deal is with people worrying about what race and/or gender the next main character will be. I still don't see why it should be a problem.

 

And I'm not sure how one would expect me to give an example of a Chinese Gangbanger. I'm not a book of knowledge for all around the world criminal activities and 'the underworld' as I've heard some call it. But I don't doubt there are Chinese Gangbangers somewhere in this world.

 

But back to my original point of why people care for race and gender, and also here's a question. If you ask any gamer what their favorite character is, or what their least favorite character is, and then ask them why they like or dislike said character, the answer is usually something that actually has something to do with their personality; How they act, how they deal with situations, what they do, because they're funny or because they're badass, etc.

 

Now I say usually because there still are some that do dislike characters because or their race, though the only people I've seen that give such reasons tend to be racist and discriminative assholes. But any gamer that's not trying to be racist or offensive to others will give reasons that relate to the personality of a character, hence the reason why I don't get what the fuss is about when it comes to race and gender.

 

Why do I like Tommy? Because he's badass and doesn't let people push him around too much. Why do I dislike Claude? Because he's way too stoic and doesn't talk, which makes him bland to me, though some people probably find him as the best GTA protagonist to date, and the reason is probably because he's a cool as f*** character to them. I've honestly never seen a single person hate on Claude just because he's a white dude, you get my point, and this is the original point I was making.

I mean, your last paragraph even mentions "the arguably toxic ones" as being a quality of giving them the best chance at reaching the top of the criminal world. I mean come on, what makes someone toxic? Not their skin color, that's for sure. The thing they'd need in order to be toxic is have a personality that nurtures that. That's something you want, right?

 

Heck, you even said yourself "The best protagonists in the series were stoic , aggressive, courageous and strong-willed." Which of course are personality traits. What do you think their birthmark on their left cheek makes them that way?

 

I don't claim to know how the ins and outs of the criminal world works, nor do I own a book on what makes for the best suited gangbanger, but one thing I do know is what makes for a great character: Personality.

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Grotti Vigilante
1 hour ago, Recommended said:


I probably should have clarified this, my bad. Thing is for a game that involves a Japanese Empire, I'd expect such a game to be a Historically accurate or otherwise fantasy genré of game. It wouldn't be something a GTA game would be based on. (Was trying to make an example, I could have put it better)

 

Anyway, the whole thing about what's possible and such ain't really my original argument here. What I was originally saying was what the big deal is with people worrying about what race and/or gender the next main character will be. I still don't see why it should be a problem.

 

And I'm not sure how one would expect me to give an example of a Chinese Gangbanger. I'm not a book of knowledge for all around the world criminal activities and 'the underworld' as I've heard some call it. But I don't doubt there are Chinese Gangbangers somewhere in this world.

 

But back to my original point of why people care for race and gender, and also here's a question. If you ask any gamer what their favorite character is, or what their least favorite character is, and then ask them why they like or dislike said character, the answer is usually something that actually has something to do with their personality; How they act, how they deal with situations, what they do, because they're funny or because they're badass, etc.

 

Now I say usually because there still are some that do dislike characters because or their race, though the only people I've seen that give such reasons tend to be racist and discriminative assholes. But any gamer that's not trying to be racist or offensive to others will give reasons that relate to the personality of a character, hence the reason why I don't get what the fuss is about when it comes to race and gender.

 

Why do I like Tommy? Because he's badass and doesn't let people push him around too much. Why do I dislike Claude? Because he's way too stoic and doesn't talk, which makes him bland to me, though some people probably find him as the best GTA protagonist to date, and the reason is probably because he's a cool as f*** character to them. I've honestly never seen a single person hate on Claude just because he's a white dude, you get my point, and this is the original point I was making.

I mean, your last paragraph even mentions "the arguably toxic ones" as being a quality of giving them the best chance at reaching the top of the criminal world. I mean come on, what makes someone toxic? Not their skin color, that's for sure. The thing they'd need in order to be toxic is have a personality that nurtures that. That's something you want, right?

 

Heck, you even said yourself "The best protagonists in the series were stoic , aggressive, courageous and strong-willed." Which of course are personality traits. What do you think their birthmark on their left cheek makes them that way?

 

I don't claim to know how the ins and outs of the criminal world works, nor do I own a book on what makes for the best suited gangbanger, but one thing I do know is what makes for a great character: Personality.

I get your point. The race and gender has no bearing on a character's personality, and I'm not disputing that. All I am saying is that certain races are involved in certain issues, and in situations where you're trying to write a story such as CJ's or Tommy's, then there is a certain degree of importance that they be black or Italian-American, just based on the fact that 1990s hood gangs were black and the mafia don't allow anyone who isn't Italian heritage, unless of course you don't want to try and be so close to real life. In Niko's case, his story was literally being an immigrant heading to America so he could live a better life. I'm not sure his specific country was important because I am unsure about a lot of his background, but being an immigrant definitely was important.

 

In some situations though, it doesn't matter. Claude could've been anyone since he was merely a hitman for several criminals. Vic Vance I am unsure of, considering he and his story just wasn't interesting or memorable enough. Michael and Trevor don't seem to have much of an affiliation with certain gangs, so it doesn't matter as much for them as it does Franklin, who is part of a modern ghetto street gang. But in situations like Huang Lee, his story involves him becoming head of the triads, a Chinese criminal organisation. If he were white or black it wouldn't make much sense. Toni Cipriani, who becomes a made man in his story, cannot be anything but Italian-American, since a made man has to be Italian in roots in the mafia.

 

As I said, I am not too bothered about what the race or ethnicity of the next character will be, so long as it somewhat makes sense with the theme they're going for. If we want to go with a Triad theme, then Chinese would be the most sensible, if for mafia, Italian, if for Cartel then Mexican/Colombian. If we're going for a hired hitman theme, then it doesn't really matter much at all if it's what defines their criminal status. Claude could've been any colour as far as I know, but I would disagree about him being too stoic. That would imply that he has personality, which he unfortunately doesn't. Matter of fact, one of my favourite things about GTA is the diversity of protagonists throughout the series, some more compelling than others of course.

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9 hours ago, Recommended said:

Male, Female, Black, White, whatever, just make their personality spot on and believable for the next game.

Believable is the key word here. The protagonist should be believable as a violent criminal involved in GTA-type activities. Anomalies exist, but they'd feel forced and there's no reason to force a character in the game when doing so won't improve the game.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

As I said, I am not too bothered about what the race or ethnicity of the next character will be, so long as it somewhat makes sense with the theme they're going for. If we want to go with a Triad theme, then Chinese would be the most sensible, if for mafia, Italian, if for Cartel then Mexican/Colombian. If we're going for a hired hitman theme, then it doesn't really matter much at all if it's what defines their criminal status. Claude could've been any colour as far as I know, but I would disagree about him being too stoic. That would imply that he has personality, which he unfortunately doesn't. Matter of fact, one of my favourite things about GTA is the diversity of protagonists throughout the series, some more compelling than others of course.

For me, I think I'd actually prefer that if the game were to have a heavy focus on one particular criminal organization that we see it from the perspective of a total outsider. Something along the lines of a young Latino/Latina and we save someone semi-important to the Italian Mafia gang and they sort of take us under their wing without really letting us into the gang.

 

I think there's a lot they could do with mounting trust issues and having the character start as an outsider is always a great way to justify other characters explaining everything as a way to explain them to the audience.

 

I'm not too picky on race or gender, I think Rockstar will do a pretty solid job in the writing department regardless but I would like to see them try something different. Personally, I want some sort of under dog type character. Someone who hasn't earned anybody's respect and has a hard tie doing so. This would help justify all the stupid little errands we'll inevitably running for people.

 

Also, Chinese gangbangers are not rare.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Chinese-American_gangs

Pretty much anywhere there's a large population of any race there's probably a subgroup of criminals.

Edited by DexMacLeod
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I would like the protagonist to be a fully customised, user-created character, like the online character is. I don't care if he doesn't speak to be honest. It would be far more immersive to me to be able to play the story through as a character of my own creation. I prefer this to playing as determined characters in most games. I didn't like in the GTA V story for example that you would come back to one of the three protagonists and the outfit that you had chosen for them had changed. It made me feel detached from them tbh. 

 

Just my preference though.

Edited by Big Molio
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Another GTA Fan
13 hours ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

I get your point. The race and gender has no bearing on a character's personality, and I'm not disputing that. All I am saying is that certain races are involved in certain issues, and in situations where you're trying to write a story such as CJ's or Tommy's, then there is a certain degree of importance that they be black or Italian-American, just based on the fact that 1990s hood gangs were black and the mafia don't allow anyone who isn't Italian heritage, unless of course you don't want to try and be so close to real life. In Niko's case, his story was literally being an immigrant heading to America so he could live a better life. I'm not sure his specific country was important because I am unsure about a lot of his background, but being an immigrant definitely was important.

 

In some situations though, it doesn't matter. Claude could've been anyone since he was merely a hitman for several criminals. Vic Vance I am unsure of, considering he and his story just wasn't interesting or memorable enough. Michael and Trevor don't seem to have much of an affiliation with certain gangs, so it doesn't matter as much for them as it does Franklin, who is part of a modern ghetto street gang. But in situations like Huang Lee, his story involves him becoming head of the triads, a Chinese criminal organisation. If he were white or black it wouldn't make much sense. Toni Cipriani, who becomes a made man in his story, cannot be anything but Italian-American, since a made man has to be Italian in roots in the mafia.

 

As I said, I am not too bothered about what the race or ethnicity of the next character will be, so long as it somewhat makes sense with the theme they're going for. If we want to go with a Triad theme, then Chinese would be the most sensible, if for mafia, Italian, if for Cartel then Mexican/Colombian. If we're going for a hired hitman theme, then it doesn't really matter much at all if it's what defines their criminal status. Claude could've been any colour as far as I know, but I would disagree about him being too stoic. That would imply that he has personality, which he unfortunately doesn't. Matter of fact, one of my favourite things about GTA is the diversity of protagonists throughout the series, some more compelling than others of course.

I actually completely agree with this, though after the conversation in this topic, it does seems to depend on who you ask when it comes down to the ideal protagonist. For me, I honestly don't mind what race or gender the next protagonist is going to be. As long as they're self-confident, don't whine or let people walk all over them, and show great personality, then I'm happy with that. Their gender or race wouldn't change my experience with the game even if it ain't traditional. I just prioritize personality over gender and race. But I can totally understand why some such as yourself would be the other way around in that regard, or prioritize personality and race equally, and I respect that.

 

A Chinese Cowboy in RDR wouldn't change my experience and liking to the character, for example, even though it would make much less sense, but after this I can totally understand why others would have a problem with something like that.

 

As for Claude, I'd still consider him a Stoic figure. I wouldn't say he's totally devoid of personality, he just doesn't show it at all; Strong silent type as some would call it. I just couldn't relate to him at all because he wouldn't show anything. Someone would just tell him to do something and he'd do it without question or words.

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Grotti Vigilante
12 minutes ago, Recommended said:

I actually completely agree with this, though after the conversation in this topic, it does seems to depend on who you ask when it comes down to the ideal protagonist. For me, I honestly don't mind what race or gender the next protagonist is going to be. As long as they're self-confident, don't whine or let people walk all over them, and show great personality, then I'm happy with that. Their gender or race wouldn't change my experience with the game even if it ain't traditional. I just prioritize personality over gender and race. But I can totally understand why some such as yourself would be the other way around in that regard, or prioritize personality and race equally, and I respect that.

 

A Chinese Cowboy in RDR wouldn't change my experience and liking to the character, for example, even though it would make much less sense, but after this I can totally understand why others would have a problem with something like that.

 

As for Claude, I'd still consider him a Stoic figure. I wouldn't say he's totally devoid of personality, he just doesn't show it at all; Strong silent type as some would call it. I just couldn't relate to him at all because he wouldn't show anything. Someone would just tell him to do something and he'd do it without question or words.

Glad I was able to help you see another point of view, even if you don't personally agree with it. I'm not quite sure whether I'd make race as much an equal priority as personality since Franklin is my least favourite protagonist despite him fitting the theme of a ghetto hood rat. He was just a watered down CJ in my opinion, so in this case, personality is most certainly more important. I think the race is important to a character if fitted to a certain background, but it won't make them any more interesting. Realistic characters aren't always good ones, and Franklin proves that for me. I suppose Claude could fit the strong silent type personality, in fact I've always described him as a Darth Maul character, but that doesn't make him any better for me either. We both certainly agree on that part at least.

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A good protagonist.

 

Could be a mobster, a yakuza, an spy, the daughter of a drug czar, the soldier from TF2, a corrupt police liutenant, a crazed vigilante, John Marston's zombie i dont care, just create a good protagonist like they did up to gta IV.

 

I dont want anything resembling the protagonists from V ever again, that game killed my faith in the series.

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I felt little bit of disconnect in RDR2 when I fed a person to an alligator and then in the next mission Arthur is horrified by someone being fed to an alligator

 

The protagonist really should be someone who would actually do anything players do in free roam

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