Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. Gameplay
      2. Missions
      3. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Diamond Casino & Resort
      2. DLC
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA 6

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Stannard96

Sad reflections nearly a year on

Recommended Posts

Stannard96
Posted (edited)

For 6 months I was glued to RDR2, but ever so slowly, as times passed by, I’ve become more and more disappointed and disillusioned with the direction in which the creators decided to go in.

 

The writing is just...Ugh. I can’t fathom why they made some of the decisions they made; what on earth were they thinking with the Guama plot? Why was I/Arthur trying to sink a f*cking naval warship? Like, what the f*ck? When did this game stop being a western? What happened to the quirky western twang of the first game, a genuine classic of the western genre (including western movies imho).

 

Why didn’t we use New Austin? Who in their right mind wouldn’t have preferred a plot in cowboy land (excluding John for cannon reasons ofc) instead of the mind blowing nonsense we got in Guama?

 

Maybe I’m on my own here...idk. I’m just sad because for all of it’s beauty and it’s wonderful characters and it’s fantastic gameplay, the game just doesn’t feel like a western. It doesn’t even feel like a coherent American story of any description. Please can somebody explain to my why the air balloon mission had to exist? 🙁

 

I know I sound like any other hater but it’s weird because I was obsessed with the game for a long time. Only now, nearly a year later, I feel like I’m sobering up and beginning to think wtf just happened haha. I spent years upon years waiting for this game (RDR is my favourite video game/ piece of media/art of all time). Nearly a year on from its sequel, I feel disappointed.

 

Interested to hear anybody’s thoughts, I’m slightly drunk and just sad at what could’ve been. The bones were there, the characters were there, the decision making was just wildly, mind-bogglingly stupid).

Edited by Stannard96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SneakyDeaky

We never got to Tahiti, that was the dream! And who the hell lives there? Tahitians, I guess.

 

The story is up and down for me. Its presentation is amazing, its writing is too modern and repetitive for my tastes. It is still in the style of an American Western, something like, Open Range, Unforgiven, True Grit, Hateful Eight, The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, more contemporary films that don't feature much desert, but its still of the Western genre, as many of its themes are right out of classic Westerns like The Wild Bunch, Ride the High Country, Shane, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, ect.

But a lot of those films are set during the end of the west, so that may be your main concern? I feel it's time for a game set in the golden age of the west indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GinsengElixir

It was a mixed bag for me. Massively ambitious game which needed streamlining and a more innovative approach to mission design which also means less shooting galleries(shooting is only really fun in free roam), more commitment to gameplay mechanics such as the survival aspects, hunting, camp building, out of mission robberies which meant something(basically, money means something) etc, for us to start the game in Blackwater/West Elizabeth, replace Guarma with Mexico and New Austin etc. 

 

I also sometimes wish they'd get over their hard on for 'presentation'. I don't want to watch a f*cking interactive movie. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
~INDIO~

RDR1 felt like a proper western,

RDR2 doesn't feel like that so much.

I love the game don't get me wrong, but I'm hoping for RDR3 to be set further west/Mexico (new territories) and set around the 1870's.

They've done the whole "Wild west turning civilised" thing now, time to go further back.

Hopefully then we'll get some decent revolvers,

no more sh*tty pistols Rockstar.. Please and thanks😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jason

I absolutely loved it as a game and it's the game of the gen for me... but at no point playing it did I ever get a western feel. As a Redemption game it was a vastly different beast to the first game, which is good because it never tried to emulate what the first game did and instead did it's own thing, but bad because it didn't quite have the same vibe as RDR1 which would understandably disappoint people.

 

Guarma is definitely the lowest point of the game not only from a "wtf is going on" perspective but also the writing in that chapter is very "this is how it is don't ask questions". It's like they really wanted to shock & awe the player, which it did at first but it quickly became a bit wut. I did like how it was a way to pass time in the story tho, coming back having to figure out what the hell happened, I liked that personally.

 

I think chapter 5 would've been better if it was in NA, have the Guarma boys hiding out in the middle of no where in NA with the RDR2 portion of the map being dead or alive with police and sh*t everywhere. Have the story being you and the guys are hiding out and waiting for things to die down but you attract the unwanted attention of the gangs in the area, or something like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IG_
Posted (edited)

You know I'm not judging but loving a game for six months and then being disappointed is definitely a new one.

I mean I agree there's been some weird decisions with the writing, Guarma was such a weird twist and IMO a low point in the story... but you still enjoyed the game for six months so that has to mean something.


Are you sure you just didn't get bored?

 

Personally, I'd just be happy that you enjoyed the game soooo much for six months.

 

I've long finished RDR2 and thoroughly played through it... but I still remember the feelings i had playing the game for the first time and knowing I had a whole ass world that I still needed to discover. Was great and worth it.

Edited by IG_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jabalous
Posted (edited)

To each his own, but I like that R* didn't try to copy and paste what they did in Redemption. It's the reason why Redemption 2 feels different atmosphere and presentation wise. However, I agree that some bits of the actual story could've been different, and actually I think a large chunk of what makes the story should've been different, such as the presence of idle women in the gang and forced diversity that didn't exist back then. It's an overall good and unique story, but yeah, it's time to abandon the Redemption theme and takes the story sometime earlier in the fictional old west for a future Red Dead title. 

Edited by Jabalous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alexlecj
8 hours ago, Stannard96 said:

Why didn’t we use New Austin? Who in their right mind wouldn’t have preferred a plot in cowboy land (excluding John for cannon reasons ofc) instead of the mind blowing nonsense we got in Tahiti? 

 

Because it doesn't make sense for Arthur Morgan & others to be 'rewarded' by riding where they wanted to ride.

 

Tahiti isn't nonsense either, it represents the sentiment that Dutch gave up the hope to see America as he wanted it to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emmi

I guess you just need a break from it. Like I played this game from launch day on until mid-December EVERY day for a couple of hours, I'd say maybe 1.5-4 depending on day of week ... anyways I stopped after that because I finished the main story and most side missions as well (90% completion) and played a bit of Red Dead Online (will never touch it again though). Now seven months later I felt the urge to play it again from start to finish ... although this time I'll make a separate save (in chapter 2) so I can still free-roam as Arthur post main-story. What can I say, almost 10 hours into my 2nd playthrough and I enjoy it EVEN more than the first time. Also experiencing LOTS of stuff I must have missed the first time around. RDR2 is amazing, vastly different to RDR1 and that is TOTALLY fine!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GinsengElixir
56 minutes ago, Alexlecj said:

Because it doesn't make sense for Arthur Morgan & others to be 'rewarded' by riding where they wanted to ride.

 

Tahiti isn't nonsense either, it represents the sentiment that Dutch gave up the hope to see America as he wanted it to be.

Ah so pretentious. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alexlecj
17 minutes ago, GinsengElixir said:

Ah so pretentious. 

 

 

I applaud your argument in favor of New Austin/Nuevo Paraiso.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stannard96
Posted (edited)

Excuse me guys I meant Guama. Like I said I’d had a drink last night and it’s been a while. Appreciate replies and mostly agree- there is definitely an aspect of just running out of steam personally with the game. If they did single player DLC in NA all would be forgiven, but I’m not holding my breath!

Edited by Stannard96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hmmm Beer

I still love the game, and I try to accept the flaws. Guarma was annoying, true. 

 

RDR 1 was a watershed moment for me, and a few games over the years I have really enjoyed since, but RDR 2 is still a massive highlight. I am loving my second playthrough free roam (ch 2) and I can see myself returning time and time again. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr K

No sad reflections here. I've played almost everyday since it's release. For me it's like watching a favorite movie. I have a 100% completion game saved.

During my second play I saved game's at various points to revisit later. I haven't tired of playing at all.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GinsengElixir
4 hours ago, Alexlecj said:

I applaud your argument in favor of New Austin/Nuevo Paraiso.

Yeah well, I keep hearing how Guarma is a meta-narrative for Dutchs broken dreams of retiring to a tropical island only to find himself in a war zone etc etc...for me it's really the least important theme in the story and really not worth an entire chapter full of awful missions and linear gameplay. It's takes me out of the game in the worst way.

 

NA/NP doesn't just have to be fan service - they are great locations for both gameplay/missions, a more typical western setting, and further exploration of Dutch and the gangs descent. It's also a far more plausible location for them to escape to than,'oh look we happened to land on this island how convenient'. They could have escaped Blackwater on a small boat and drifted down Lannahachee river to Mexico. Dutch, Arthur and Micah, with the rest going wherever. Here we would get to see this trio on their own with their conflicts brewing in a more personal way, far from the noise of a bloated gang.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Platypus92

I think it would've been better if they stranded in Nuevo Paraiso instead, and run into Allende. They could do some missions for him, which would explain why in RDR1, Colonel Allende was helping Bill and Javier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kasa

I agree about guarma, also the snowy areas should have been used more. And I didn’t feel north eastern part of the map, totally no western feeling 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xerukal

Guarma did feel like it went nowhere, yeah. But I think the entire game is worth it simply to witness the journey of Arthur. He's such a well done character, I remember people being concerned about him living up to John... then as soon as the game was out for a little while, it was exactly the opposite. 

 

The game isn't very fresh in my mind anymore, I've only ever beaten it once. But I'm really yearning to replay it on PC as soon as it's out. I think the ambient camp moments in RDR2 are really some of the best pieces of environmental storytelling and atmosphere around. Even if some parts of the camp system could've been done better, I never expected to like all of the characters as much as I did. 

 

I got over the lack of classic western influences pretty quickly. Maybe because I've been watching movies and shows that were sort of in the same vein right before playing the game. Set towards the end of the period, including certain western tropes/visuals, but not necessarily concerning themselves with the classic western fantasy (Deadwood was a big one for me). 

 

That said, even though it feels like somewhat of a cheap throwback, visiting New Austin after the story felt pretty magical. Especially because i had just replayed RDR1 the month before I got to RDR2. Just made me wish for a full on RDR1 remake even more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emmi
1 hour ago, Xerukal said:

I think the ambient camp moments in RDR2 are really some of the best pieces of environmental storytelling and atmosphere around.

This, exactly!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ironside
On 7/12/2019 at 1:39 PM, GinsengElixir said:

Yeah well, I keep hearing how Guarma is a meta-narrative for Dutchs broken dreams of retiring to a tropical island only to find himself in a war zone etc etc...for me it's really the least important theme in the story and really not worth an entire chapter full of awful missions and linear gameplay. It's takes me out of the game in the worst way.

 

NA/NP doesn't just have to be fan service - they are great locations for both gameplay/missions, a more typical western setting, and further exploration of Dutch and the gangs descent. It's also a far more plausible location for them to escape to than,'oh look we happened to land on this island how convenient'. They could have escaped Blackwater on a small boat and drifted down Lannahachee river to Mexico. Dutch, Arthur and Micah, with the rest going wherever. Here we would get to see this trio on their own with their conflicts brewing in a more personal way, far from the noise of a bloated gang.

You won the tread! I agree with every word you say and the changes you propose would definitely have made a very good game even greater. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rusty James

It gets a bit tiring reading the same dumb argument over and over in this forum. It's okay to prefer the New Austin area, but saying the rest of the map lacks a western feel just shows your ignorance of the genre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GinsengElixir
1 hour ago, Rusty James said:

It gets a bit tiring reading the same dumb argument over and over in this forum. It's okay to prefer the New Austin area, but saying the rest of the map lacks a western feel just shows your ignorance of the genre.

There are different types of westerns. RDR2 is still distinctly western...I mean, watch Unforgiven for example.

 

People are just wanting both tbh. The Spaghetti Western vibe of New Austin was so cool and since it was included in sp, I guess people just wanted to see it in sp and not just in a dull epilogue.

 

I loved the settings in Rdr2, it suited the game so well. I can live without new Austin and nuevo but I can definitely live without Guarma. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rusty James
2 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

There are different types of westerns. RDR2 is still distinctly western...I mean, watch Unforgiven for example.

 

People are just wanting both tbh. The Spaghetti Western vibe of New Austin was so cool and since it was included in sp, I guess people just wanted to see it in sp and not just in a dull epilogue.

 

I loved the settings in Rdr2, it suited the game so well. I can live without new Austin and nuevo but I can definitely live without Guarma. 

I understand that, but it's not valid criticism to say that RDR2 it's not a western.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ironside
2 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

There are different types of westerns. RDR2 is still distinctly western...I mean, watch Unforgiven for example.

 

People are just wanting both tbh. The Spaghetti Western vibe of New Austin was so cool and since it was included in sp, I guess people just wanted to see it in sp and not just in a dull epilogue.

 

I loved the settings in Rdr2, it suited the game so well. I can live without new Austin and nuevo but I can definitely live without Guarma. 

As English is not my first language, it is really nice to see someone formulate the sentences as I would like to be able to do. Once again you say what I think and thank you for saying it! I agree wholeheartedly as I love the entire “main map”, but Guarma is actually bad in so many ways. It is badly designed from a game perspective as it is all on rails and feels like one giant and unstoppable mission. When we first see the island and hear all the new sounds from the environment and animals, we as players of course believe the island will be explorable as is normal in an open world game but oh no. The mission themselves in Guarma feels so ripped out of the main story on one hand and totally out of the western genre context. The characters we meet on Guarma have very one sided personalities and we cannot interact with any of them in any meaningful way as the rail just goes from point 1 to 2 to 3 and so on...

 

I have as I said, absolutely nothing against the main map areas. Quite the opposite as I love them and all of them feel very fitting for the western genre for me, I may have a wish that the snowy areas could have had some more interaction like a town or a “Minnie’s haberdashery”. The areas from RDR1 is cool as always and they complement the new areas as it sort of makes the western genre complete with everything from more modern western movies and stories to old spaghetti western style environments. I would definitely have preferred Mexico instead of Guarma and I would also have loved to see New Austin with some real activity and grey quest lines, as it stands it is a great place for nostalgia but not that much more. 

 

I hope you all understand my attempt at making myself understood and if not, then see what GinsengElexir said. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spoonman039
5 hours ago, Rusty James said:

It gets a bit tiring reading the same dumb argument over and over in this forum. It's okay to prefer the New Austin area, but saying the rest of the map lacks a western feel just shows your ignorance of the genre.

absolutely
when I was a kid I enjoyed reading a comic about a tall american guy and his fat mexican fella. they were traveling across entire North america and even visited other continents, but mostly lived in north-eastern US, helping natives, prevent battles, visiting mining towns, forts, etc. so, playing chapter 6 to me was probably the best trowback in any video game ever. the only downside is that Rains Fall (as a chief) was a bit out of place character for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr. Ando
On 7/11/2019 at 3:24 PM, Stannard96 said:

For 6 months I was glued to RDR2, but ever so slowly, as times passed by, I’ve become more and more disappointed and disillusioned with the direction in which the creators decided to go in.

 

The writing is just...Ugh. I can’t fathom why they made some of the decisions they made; what on earth were they thinking with the Guama plot? Why was I/Arthur trying to sink a f*cking naval warship? Like, what the f*ck? When did this game stop being a western? What happened to the quirky western twang of the first game, a genuine classic of the western genre (including western movies imho).

 

Why didn’t we use New Austin? Who in their right mind wouldn’t have preferred a plot in cowboy land (excluding John for cannon reasons ofc) instead of the mind blowing nonsense we got in Guama?

 

Maybe I’m on my own here...idk. I’m just sad because for all of it’s beauty and it’s wonderful characters and it’s fantastic gameplay, the game just doesn’t feel like a western. It doesn’t even feel like a coherent American story of any description. Please can somebody explain to my why the air balloon mission had to exist? 🙁

 

I know I sound like any other hater but it’s weird because I was obsessed with the game for a long time. Only now, nearly a year later, I feel like I’m sobering up and beginning to think wtf just happened haha. I spent years upon years waiting for this game (RDR is my favourite video game/ piece of media/art of all time). Nearly a year on from its sequel, I feel disappointed.

 

Interested to hear anybody’s thoughts, I’m slightly drunk and just sad at what could’ve been. The bones were there, the characters were there, the decision making was just wildly, mind-bogglingly stupid).

Well, you could make the case that chapter five feels like a totally different game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SonOfLiberty

I don't see how it lacked a "Western feel". It just felt different from RDR like how GTA IV feels like GTA III in some ways, but it's an entirely different beast in others.

 

I agree the Guarma part was the lowest point of the story, but even with that relatively small blemish it's still an amazing game. In ways I prefer the New Austin in RDR2 because in places like Armadillo it feels like a true desolate sh*thole overrun by bandits and lawless and it's interesting to see the state before how it would become in RDR. I've only completed two playthroughs and the only thing that's stopping me from playing it again is my tight outside life schedule since it's such a long game that requires all of my attention.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jje1000
Posted (edited)

Ultimately RDR2 was a triumph of world and character-building, but you can't shake the feeling that there's lots of loose ends that indicate that there was either something more originally planned, or something that didn't end up panning out in the end.

 

Things like:

- The gunplay that overemphasizes headshots with deadeye

- The clunky movement system, complex buttonmapping, and overemphasis on holding down buttons

- The relatively simplistic hunting mechanics

- The simplistic camp mechanics and useless upgrades, with the feeling that there could have been more dynamic procedural systems that were cut

- Missing free-roam gang companions- of which the mechanics were clearly present- this was a huge loss for me

- Under-developed wanted systems that has enforcement after you right away, even if you rob a train in the middle of nowhere, or bump into someone in Saint Denis

- The strange story pacing that inadvertently leaves many people stopping progression in Chapter 2 or 3

- The huge character cast that leaves a lot of them underdeveloped- especially with secondary characters like Javier, Bill, Colm or Angelo

- Overemphasis on scripted scenarios for random encounters, and a lack of repeatable gameplay (like the bounty missions in RDR1)

- Some of the story subtext isn't explained well or questionably reasoned, thus leaving too much up to the player- I.e. elements like Micah's betrayal or the Saint Denis Bank robbery failure

- Gameplay vs story conflicts- I.e. How the player could be swimming in money but the story always indicates that they need more money

- The large amount of unused content in Guarma, and its extremely linear nature that feels distinctly different from the rest of the game

- Those unused Jack-like voice lines that people have found on occasion

- The corridor-shooter nature of many story missions

- New Austin- in how empty it is, and the indications that it was a latter addition to the map

- The lack of post-game missions that forces players to divvy up the side missions for John, not to mention that huge lump sum of money players get at the end which makes every other progression system meaningless

- That useless bathtub at Beecher's Hope 

 

Not to mention the absolutely shameful post-release support RDR2 has received for SP, that hype-killing radio silence from Rockstar, and the ongoing issue that RDO is still not there- sort of indicates that development was (and still is) far more tumultuous than would appear from the outside.

 

(Also the cancellation of the art book is a particularly sour point for me, and the huge delay in getting even the soundtrack out, let alone a PC port, raises plenty of questions.)

 

Edited by jje1000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emmi

That this artbook is likely never going to see the light of day is a huge disappointment, the description from the leaked amazon listing for it sounded so awesome. I wanted to see all that concept art and wanted to read more about the development of this amazing game!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GinsengElixir

I think the pursuit of the Blackwater money(150k) should have been more of a plot point. Atleast there could have been a mission where we go back to Blackwater to try and collect. I like how the game started but can't shake the feeling that the Blackwater robbery could have been placed later, and certain gang members questioning of Dutch taken place afterwards. But mostly, I just wanted the opportunity to walk and hunt in Tall Trees as Arthur. 

 

Money could have been scarcer aswell, with less takes on the earlier missions, so that trading in pelts or bounties were something we felt we needed to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.