Defensive mode

[StyxTx]

1 hour ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

You know, this is a game taking place in 1898, where not everyone was much obliged to respect the law. You can expect someone to take a shot at you now and then. Sorry to say, but if you can't live with a shot taken at you once in a while, this may not be the game for you. 

And, even though I am very much anti grief like you are, a shot taken at you really doesn't classify as being griefed. Really, I think you're taking this much too heavy. It's normal gameplay in this game. Do you get pissed off when running into an ambush too? For all I know, I'm getting shot at by npcs a lot more than other players. Maybe you should ask Rockstar for invite only lobbies, where npcs don't shoot back either. 

Really, some people are using the griefer card much too easy.

I also know they diudn't pay 2019 prices for things.

[Leftover Pizza]

36 minutes ago, Failed Again said:

Then if your playing the 1880's card- law breakers  should be rounded up jailed and Hung in public..

 

I've suggested a thing like that a month ago already. Public hanging every day at noon at the town gallows. But that's not the point here. Being shot at is hardly griefing. I could say it's misconduct at best, but even that's not the case. It's just normal gameplay and really nothing to cry about. 

Now, getting killed by the same player over and over again, or seeing someone burning your hunted game to bits every time you shoot an animal, deeming your hide worthless over and over again. That's griefing. Being shot at once in a while isn't. And, by who? I hardly see any other players around, especially when I'm fishing, hunting or selling something at the butcher.

Some people just don't understand what griefing is or what Defensive Mode does. Some even think they are ganked by 1 player, when they get killed a few times. :S 

[DarkReign27]

10 minutes ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

I've suggested a thing like that a month ago already. Public hanging every day at noon at the town gallows. But that's not the point here. Being shot at is hardly griefing. I could say it's misconduct at best, but even that's not the case. It's just normal gameplay and really nothing to cry about. 

Now, getting killed by the same player over and over again, or seeing someone burning your hunted game to bits every time you shoot an animal, deeming your hide worthless over and over again. That's griefing. Being shot at once in a while isn't. And, by who? I hardly see any other players around, especially when I'm fishing, hunting or selling something at the butcher.

Some people just don't understand what griefing is or what Defensive Mode does. Some even think they are ganked by 1 player, when they get killed a few times. :S 

I wouldnt mind on the road shooting it kinda makes sense with robbing. But what happens is towns under siege no end and guarding the butcher I saw that yesterday all night Valentine was under siege posses killing each other over and over every time I went there dead bodies all around police dying everywhere idk maybe town like defense or something lol. I wouldn't say everything is griefing but most of the ones I've had are guarding clerks or waiting for people to come into town not on the road thievery.

[Leftover Pizza]

25 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

I also know they diudn't pay 2019 prices for things.

 

Because this has EVERYTHING to do with the discussion.....

[Lonely-Martin]

Stick 'em on the prison island and they have to do chores like at camp in story mode for 5 minutes or something, lol.

 

25 hay bundles moved gets you off the island, or stay and fight it out.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Lonely-Martin

[Chunkey_Monkey]

8 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Stick 'em on the prison island and they have to do chores like at camp in story mode for 5 minutes or something, lol.

 

25 hay bundles moved gets you off the island, or stay and fight it out.

I like this lol 

[StyxTx]

19 minutes ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

Because this has EVERYTHING to do with the discussion.....

Your point?

19 minutes ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

Because this has EVERYTHING to do with the discussion.....

He mentioned the game is in the 1800's. Everything except the price of things.

[Leftover Pizza]

17 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

Your point?

He mentioned the game is in the 1800's. Everything except the price of things.

 

How does this have anything to do with Defensive Mode? The discussion already derailed to griefing too much (yeah, sorry for that), but bringing in the prices for items is a little too far off the path, IMO. That or there is some magical content in price comparing I've missed and totally hits the nail on the Defensive Mode problem. 

[Failed Again]

This might not apply, but Griefers never see anything wrong with their play style

 

How to tell if your a redneck/jokes(substitute Griefer

 

no pain no gain

It only hurts you- when I laugh

it's a feature

The servers would be empty and no one would play

 

Git Gud

 

On the other hand I think this latest defensive mode has been a big improvement

It would be nice for folks that enjoy outlaw style- to be able to all pile in together without the bother of passive players

 

in their own county/state

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Failed Again

[-LN-]

I'm no fan of griefing/griefers either, but I don't know that I'd consider taking a shot at me every now and then as such. I mean, yea, it can be annoying if I'm doing something else and am not interested in engaging, but it's probably gonna happen ever so often and I have to make a choice as to whether I ignore it and go on about my business or decide to fight back. I'm usually more interested in going on about my business; if it's something I feel that's more important then I'm not gonna waste my time entertaining someone else's desires in favour of my own. Now if this person decides to chase after me after I've made it clear that I'm not interested, then I might consider that griefing. However, unlike GTAO and the way things were here in the beginning, it's pretty easy to get away quickly and go off and do your own thing thanks to both the new blip system and defensive mode. I know that lobbies can often feel chaotic at times, but the map is a pretty big place; I may have to find a better, more peaceful area or take a couple of minutes to switch lobbies entirely if I'm not holding anything of value that will vanish, but it's not like I'm gonna be trapped in an endless loop of being spawn killed by someone until I'm forced to shut the game off.

 

I respect the fact that some do not want to deal people taking shots at them, but if it happens, it's not really the end of the world and you also have options to simply go on about your business and not engage. Most will leave you alone if you're not giving them attention; however, if they know it truly bothers you though, that can fuel their desires to try harder, so just brush yourself off, walk away, and let it all go.

 

I mean, yea, it would be nice to have some custom lobby options to play around with only people we know, but until then (or if then), just play the game how you see fit and maybe pretend the other dots aren't even there. I don't think you can ever stop griefing or someone taking a shot every now and then entirely, but what we have now is certainly aeons better than what we had before. In the very few hostile encounters I've had with others since the update, I've always been able to get away from it when I wasn't in the mood to deal with it.

 

Just my thoughts; please don't shoot or hang me.  I just wouldn't let it bother you too much if you're still keen on playing the game.

 

2 hours ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Stick 'em on the prison island and they have to do chores like at camp in story mode for 5 minutes or something, lol.

 

25 hay bundles moved gets you off the island, or stay and fight it out.

I love this idea though! ☺ I might be inclined to wreck a little havoc just so that I could visit; I don't like the fact that the area is completely restricted!

 

Either way, there should be more consequences for shooting up towns and killing other players in cold blood. A bounty that cannot be claimed for a few cents or a dollar isn't cutting it. Once you create chaos in a town, the locals should be more hesitant about having you around and the like. It shouldn't just be that you can walk back in after evading the law and expect them to not know who you are or what you may do.

 

Also, if we're going by 19th century laws, horse theft often carried a larger penalty than murder in many parts. That's something they would have definitely hanged you for!

[Leftover Pizza]

1 hour ago, Failed Again said:

This might not apply, but Griefers never see anything wrong with their play style

 

How to tell if your a redneck/jokes(substitute Griefer

 

no pain no gain

It only hurts you- when I laugh

it's a feature

The servers would be empty and no one would play

 

Git Gud

 

On the other hand I think this latest defensive mode has been a big improvement

It would be nice for folks that enjoy outlaw style- to be able to all pile in together without the bother of passive players

 

in their own county/state

 

 

 

 

There is a big difference in being griefed or being shot at. And, as many have said already, just let them be. If they kill you once, so be it. Just go about your business and they'll leave you alone. 

I simply think some people are yelling GRIEF far too easy. I hardly encounter any other players in lobbies these days, let alone a griefer. If I do happen to see one and I'm not in for a bit of fun, I'll hop lobbies. 

Believe me, I've dealt with a lot of griefers in other games and in early Beta in this game too. Since Defensive Mode is there, I hardly even get into a fight with another player. 

I just don't get the whining of some, about the so called ongoing griefing. 99,9% of the players leave you alone already, even without Defensive Mode on.

[gtmike]

The only reason we don't see defensive mode griefing all over the place, is that 90% of the players who would be interested in that sort of thing have already quit the game.

 

It's just passive mode with a different spin, a very poorly designed system, and if the game ever sees a resurgence it will become more apparent.

[netnow66]

7 hours ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

You know, this is a game taking place in 1898, where not everyone was much obliged to respect the law. You can expect someone to take a shot at you now and then. Sorry to say, but if you can't live with a shot taken at you once in a while, this may not be the game for you. 

And, even though I am very much anti grief like you are, a shot taken at you really doesn't classify as being griefed. Really, I think you're taking this much too heavy. It's normal gameplay in this game. Do you get pissed off when running into an ambush too? For all I know, I'm getting shot at by npcs a lot more than other players. Maybe you should ask Rockstar for invite only lobbies, where npcs don't shoot back either. 

Really, some people are using the griefer card much too easy.

Sorry, I don't see you as being anti griefer like me. Anyone who considers "a shot taken at you once in a while" as okay doesn't sound anti griefer to me.

 

What I see is you making excuses for griefing, especially since there are no real consequences.

 

You mention "some people are using the griefer card much too easy." Who gets to determine what griefing is? Do you get to decide what griefing is for me and every other player?

 

A griefer is someone who intentionally disrupts my gameplay. Period. It can't be any simpler than that.

 

Now some players like being attacked, for whatever their own reasons. And that's fine. They don't have to consider griefing what I consider griefing. But, typically, I play only in Defensive mode (except for Rockstar's moronic 30 seconds). So what is the logic of some player saying to himself "Well, I see this guy wants nothing to do with me because he's in Defensive mode...but I'm going to disrupt him anyway."

 

That's a griefer by definition, as far as I'm concerned.

 

You mention RDO might not be the game for me. Well, Rockstar promoted RDO as being a fun and fair environment that we could solo. THAT was the game I paid to play. It's just not here...exactly. That's why so many of us glitch solo/passive lobbies. 90% of the time that's where I'm playing. That way, I can be assured to get the game that Rockstar promoted.

 

 

"If they kill you once, so be it. Just go about your business and they'll leave you alone."

 

Someone referred to a "doormat mode" previously. Is that what that logic describes?

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by netnow66

[Jason]

Not to take a side but the traditional definition of a griefer in a video game is somebody who harasses player(s) consistently using unintended mechanics, ie by doing things outside of the games intended way of playing. Shooting someone in RDO free-roam isn't that, as simply walking up and shooting someone is very much in the games design and an intended mechanic, as is someone who say shoots you while hunting and then steals your pelts, or someone who interferes with your free roam mission.

 

That's all intended and thus by the traditional definition, not griefing. You'd be well justified in saying it's sh*tty game design, though.

 

I've said it before and it applies to both RDO and GTAO that if players are actively circumventing your game design (by glitching into public solo lobbies) then your game design is sh*tty.

 

I do believe however that defensive mode has greatly improved the design of RDO and how it's intended to be played.

[Leftover Pizza]

16 minutes ago, netnow66 said:

Sorry, I don't see you as being anti griefer like me. Anyone who considers "a shot taken at you once in a while" as okay doesn't sound anti griefer to me.

 

What I see is you making excuses for griefing, especially since there are no real consequences.

 

You mention "some people are using the griefer card much too easy." Who gets to determine what griefing is? Do you get to decide what griefing is for me and every other player?

 

A griefer is someone who intentionally disrupts my gameplay. Period. It can't be any simpler than that.

 

Now some players like being attacked, for whatever their own reasons. And that's fine. They don't have to consider griefing what I consider griefing. But, typically, I play only in Defensive mode (except for Rockstar's moronic 30 seconds). So what is the logic of some player saying to himself "Well, I see this guy wants nothing to do with me because he's in Defensive mode...but I'm going to disrupt him anyway."

 

That's a griefer by definition, as far as I'm concerned.

 

You mention RDO might not be the game for me. Well, Rockstar promoted RDO as being a fun and fair environment that we could solo. THAT was the game I paid to play. It's just not here...exactly. That's why so many of us glitch solo/passive lobbies. 90% of the time that's where I'm playing. That way, I can be assured to get the game that Rockstar promoted.

 

 

"If they kill you once, so be it. Just go about your business and they'll leave you alone."

 

Someone referred to a "doormat mode" previously. Is that what that logic describes?

 

 

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but:

 

- Griefing is a general definition, used in the gaming universe and as explained by Jason (and many others already) and isn't tailor made for 1 specific individuals threshold (or a barely noticable one),

- I'm not making excuses for griefing. The fact that you can't see how it works in this game doesn't mean I condone griefing. 

- You didn't pay to play RDO. You paid to play RDR2 Story Mode. RDO is free to play for those who own a copy of RDR2,

- You're much too tight assed about a normal game mechanic in this game. I'm saying it again, this is not the game for you.

 

@Jason

 

15 minutes ago, Jason said:

That's all intended and thus by the traditional definition, not griefing. You'd be well justified in saying it's sh*tty game design, though.

 

I've said it before and it applies to both RDO and GTAO that if players are actively circumventing your game design (by glitching into public solo lobbies) then your game design is sh*tty.

 

I do believe however that defensive mode has greatly improved the design of RDO and how it's intended to be played.

 

I partly agree with you there, but if players actively circumvent the game design, it can also mean the game is not for them. Don't wanna get burned? Don't play with fire. 

[CosmicBuffalo]

16 hours ago, Happy Hunter said:

It's not perfect, sometimes it doesn't work quite as it's meant to - and I'm sure there are loopholes - but it's leaps and bounds ahead of the passive popping BS of GTA.

I agree...I would have bet lots of money it would be turned against normal players, but thus far, if you are in defensive, there very low chance of being griefed.  The option to spawn in defensive would cut this down even further as most of my fights start within 20 secs of entering a new session or I simply forget to turn it on.  The nerfing of the tackle and lasso is a thing of beauty...when you follow it up with a dynamite arrow, normally it will say, noobmaster420 has parlayed with you.

Edited July 3, 2019 by CosmicBuffalo

[Jason]

You're not wrong however RDO and GTAO are slightly unusual cases because the game has PvE content but exists in a PvP world, thus it forces PvE players to co-exist with PvP and that just doesn't work very well without mechanics to stop griefing.

[Chunkey_Monkey]

1 hour ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

I

- You didn't pay to play RDO. You paid to play RDR2 Story Mode. RDO is free to play for those who own a copy of RDR2,

 

So it isnt actually free then is it 

[Leftover Pizza]

1 minute ago, Mad-Monkey_1st said:

So it isnt actually free then is it 

 

As long as you don't have to pay extra on top of the price you paid for RDR2, it kinda is.

[Jason]

Don't let Take-Two and Rockstar fool you into thinking RDO is free because it bloody well isn't. If it was free anyone could go download it on PSN and XBL right now without paying a penny for the game.

 

The "RDO is free to all owners of RDR2" malarkey they pull is PR and nothing more. Same with GTAO.

[netnow66]

1 hour ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

I hate to break it to you, but:

 

- Griefing is a general definition, used in the gaming universe and as explained by Jason (and many others already) and isn't tailor made for 1 specific individuals threshold (or a barely noticable one),

- I'm not making excuses for griefing. The fact that you can't see how it works in this game doesn't mean I condone griefing. 

- You didn't pay to play RDO. You paid to play RDR2 Story Mode. RDO is free to play for those who own a copy of RDR2,

- You're much too tight assed about a normal game mechanic in this game. I'm saying it again, this is not the game for you.

 

@Jason

I can pull up various definitions of the word griefing. That's kind of why I make a point of describing what griefing is to me and I use a definition that supports that.

 

By telling me I should be willing to take a shot or two from griefers, you are condoning griefing to me.

 

I paid to play RDO. I didn't bother playing Red Dead 2 because I had no intention of playing some typical  male cookie cutter butthead (less of a butthead than most around him). My purchase was made to play an online game where I had the capability to shape my character not play some "on the rails" persona.

 

RDO was falsely advertised as being a fair environment. That is the game that I bought. What Rockstar delivered is a game where griefing/bullying is encouraged. That game is not for me--so that is why I glitch free roam mosttimes to make it play the way it was advertised.

[Leftover Pizza]

31 minutes ago, netnow66 said:

I can pull up various definitions of the word griefing. That's kind of why I make a point of describing what griefing is to me and I use a definition that supports that.

 

By telling me I should be willing to take a shot or two from griefers, you are condoning griefing to me.

 

I paid to play RDO. I didn't bother playing Red Dead 2 because I had no intention of playing some typical  male cookie cutter butthead (less of a butthead than most around him). My purchase was made to play an online game where I had the capability to shape my character not play some "on the rails" persona.

 

RDO was falsely advertised as being a fair environment. That is the game that I bought. What Rockstar delivered is a game where griefing/bullying is encouraged. That game is not for me--so that is why I glitch free roam mosttimes to make it play the way it was advertised.

 

You make me think of 2 people I know; my stubborn as f*ck grandpa and the whining kid next door when he can't beat his friends and blames everything for his loss. 

Why play if all you do is whine about it? You hadn't noticed any of Rockstar's plans with the online game, before you bought it? Sure, blame the developer for players firing shots at you. The game is advertised as a multiplayer online game, with PvP elements. What part did you not get?

 

[CaliMeatWagon]

Personally I really like the changes to RD2:O, specifically Defensive Mode. While I think it needs some tweaks, it has generally made Online a much better place. I come across less hostility, and when I do, it's generally something I can deal with. There have been a couple of incidents where I wish it did more, but I HAVE FAITH that Rockstar HAS A PLAN. 
 

21 minutes ago, netnow66 said:

I can pull up various definitions of the word griefing. That's kind of why I make a point of describing what griefing is to me and I use a definition that supports that.

I got to stop you right there, this whole "I think therefore I am" BS is just that. You don't get to change the definition of words to fit what you "feel" it should be, or what it "means to you". That's not how definitions work. Griefing/Griefer has a set definition. 

No matter how much it may upset you, people playing the game as intended is not griefing. 

[Leftover Pizza]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Don't let Take-Two and Rockstar fool you into thinking RDO is free because it bloody well isn't. If it was free anyone could go download it on PSN and XBL right now without paying a penny for the game.

 

The "RDO is free to all owners of RDR2" malarkey they pull is PR and nothing more. Same with GTAO.

We are owners of a license to play RDR2. We don't own the game, we bought a license to play RDR2. We didn't need to buy a license to play RDO, which is in fact a different game. It's just set in the same gameworld and has similar features.

The fact that it's free to play, but restricted to only license owners of RDR2, doesn't change the fact we can still play it without having to buy another license. A free game doesn't necessarily mean it has to be free for every Joe and his aunt.

 

 

[Failed Again]

Online isn't Free, "you need Gold for that, do you have any"?

[-LN-]

Also, something to keep in mind; not all players are active on forums and keep up on the features and changes to the game and so on. Many of them probably aren't even aware that defensive mode is actually a thing, let alone an indication that you wish to be left alone and aren't interested in PvP. Not trying to make excuses, but I'd be willing to bet that many simply think they're supposed attack just any dot that appears on the radar, as such is often perceived as a threat or something part of the game's objective. Some probably don't even realise that their behaviour might annoy others, but that's kind of where there's some grey area. Them taking shots at you every now and then is not text book griefing by definition, but rather a feature that you simply find annoying. Like I said before though, if it crosses into stalkerish and completely disruptive behaviour, then yea, that's griefing, but it's impossible and improbable to have everyone adhere to the same mindset when playing an open world game such as this. For example, I think online public lobbies in GTAO are cesspools and I won't play in them. What goes on in there may not always fall under the griefing label, but I personally find it highly annoying and poorly implemented, so I find ways to circumvent the forced methods of having to play in them.

 

However, when it comes down to it, I can either continue to avoid certain elements and play how I want on my own terms or let it get it the best of me and turn me off from this game or similar games entirely. I choose the former; I may not like certain elements of the game, but at the same time, that doesn't mean that I'm condoning the actions of others nor am I going to let such actions hold me back since there are many things that I do enjoy. Had things not changed with defensive mode being added and the blip system being adjusted, then yea, I'd probably not want to play because there would be fewer ways for me to enjoy the game, especially given the very limited content. You've just got to let it be though; only R* can change things, but I do applaud them for at least making progress and not keeping as it were before when we were always on the radar and had little to no choice but to be subjected to PvP at every turn. It may not be perfect, but options do exist now where you easily avoid it. However, not everyone is going to just up and change because some gamers do not like being fired upon and the like. You don't have to be part of their "gaming style"; someone else will or they'll get bored and move on to something else. All I'm saying is that we all have our own ways of playing and enjoying the game; some may not fully understand this or care, but the features that exist do work so that you aren't forced to constantly endure something that you may not enjoy.

Edited July 3, 2019 by -LN-

[CosmicBuffalo]

7 minutes ago, Leftover Pizza said:

We are owners of a license to play RDR2. We don't own the game, we bought a license to play RDR2. We didn't need to buy a license to play RDO, which is in fact a different game. It's just set in the same gameworld and has similar features.

The fact that it's free to play, but restricted to only license owners of RDR2, doesn't change the fact we can still play it without having to buy another license. A free game doesn't necessarily mean it has to be free for every Joe and his aunt.

 

 

Might as well give up on trying to convince people of your reasoning thats its free....most people on the forum think they paid for it. 

 

I once heard a youtuber who is semi competent claim that other companies may offer RDR2 type single player experiences just to "avoid criticism" of their "live service games"  like that would be anti consumer.  So ignorant, but gamers are not reasonable on games they love, the companies can really not win if they try and make money.  Much of the criticism is justified, but the criticism spills over into legitimate ends.  Say what you want, I feel RDR2 has been a more than fair purchase in my eyes.   

[Leftover Pizza]

7 minutes ago, Failed Again said:

Online isn't Free, "you need Gold for that, do you have any"?

 

Gold is freely obtainable in the game. I haven't spent a dime on it myself, and I do have 100+ gold bars, after spending a lot of them, even.

 

[-LN-]

1 minute ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

Gold is freely obtainable in the game. I haven't spent a dime on it myself, and I do have 100+ gold bars, after spending a lot of them, even.

 

Lol, i think he was saying that because it's what you hear from store clerks.

 

That will require gold to purchase! Do ya have any?

[Leftover Pizza]

8 minutes ago, -LN- said:

Lol, i think he was saying that because it's what you hear from store clerks.

 

That will require gold to purchase! Do ya have any?

 

Talking about store clerks; if some people expect the same immunity shop clerks have, then the misconception of Defensive Mode is real. I understand the wish for it, but I'm happy it is what it is. 

But if there is one shop clerk I'd like to be able to kill, it's the one of the general store in Rhodes. The one who 'didn't think you could read'.

 

"Well look at that. I can write too and would have written my name with bullets on your scrawny rat chest, if the game would let me!!"