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AmyStone

Defensive mode

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AmyStone

Can someone please explain how this is supposed to work? I'm pretty sure it's broken. I was in a battle with someone and after a few kills each they went defensive. They were still fighting but stayed in defensive mode. I though that as soon as someone acts aggressively then they are kicked out of defensive mode. It seems to me that what this mode gives you is free aim with you taking less damage than the other person. That doesn't seem right.

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RayD70

I've only ever attacked someone once while in defensive mode (trust me, they had it coming). It instantly removed defensive mode from me.

 

Maybe there's a glitch/exploit out there?

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Jason

Yea it's a bit convoluted to say the least. Whether or not you can enter defensive mode depends on your hostility level, you need to be low hostility to enter it. If your hostility is raised to medium while in defensive mode you'll be removed from defensive mode.

 

Now, what exactly raises your hostility is... iffy and in my experience, sometimes a little off.

 

If a player attacks you then you are able to (or should be able to) attack them back with zero penalty to your hostility. If you are in defensive mode and you're attacked, you should be able to attack back without being removed from defensive mode.

 

I assume in the scenario you were in that the game believed you to be the aggressor in the situation (did you attack first?), so the other players hostility was never raised despite him fighting you, thus he was able to enter defensive mode, and as you were still tagged as the aggressor he was still able to fight you while in defensive mode.

 

There's definitely some loopholes in the system, such as being able to run into a defensive players horse, which the game perceives as the defensive mode player being aggressive and raises their hostility and removes them from defensive mode.

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CosmicBuffalo
Posted (edited)

If you are killed multiple times, it seems like 3 in a row may be the number, but when you arent keeping track its hard for me to say, your hostility decreases and you can go defensive rather than parlay. The game should keep track of who fires the first shot and forces that person to take a beating...but the system is just too simple.  If more griefer gta tryhard losers start playing the game, it will matter more and more.  but currently, its so rare to have a fight in FM.  I am not even sure of exactly how it works.  Needless to say, if you are a greifer, you are at a tremendous disadvantage in this game.  Even though these exploits do exist. 

 

The absolute dumbest thing I have seen thus far...if a posse of losers is losing...they can split up and their dots will still show bright red, but if you kill them and they have not killed you, it will kick you out of defensive mode as if they are a blue dot.

Edited by CosmicBuffalo

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Leftover Pizza

I have seen players go from red to blue, skipping pink. While I was fishing at Flat Iron Lake yesterday, a red dot took refuge in Braithwaite Manor, waiting for his hostility to drop, I guess. The player dot went into one of the corners and stayed put. About 1 minute later, the dot went from red to blue, whereas one would expect for it to turn pink first. Overall Defensive Mode works, but it sure does have it's quirks. 

I do hope Rockstar keeps it's word and will look into more definitive measures, might Defensive Mode not be sufficient anymore. So, Rockstar should keep GTA Online interesting enough for tryhards to stay there. Otherwise, Invite Only. 

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TheLordMarvel

Honestly, if you're in defensive mode, it should block you from hurting players and vice versa (Use the same technique they have when it comes to shooting Cripps or other P.O.I, gun just won't shoot and/or averts direction). The only time you can actually shoot is against NPC's or animals. 

 

 

Defensive is okay, but TNT or explosive ammo still kills defensive players easily. I've been on the receiving end of that. 

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Pocket Fox
2 hours ago, TheLordMarvel said:

Honestly, if you're in defensive mode, it should block you from hurting players and vice versa (Use the same technique they have when it comes to shooting Cripps or other P.O.I, gun just won't shoot and/or averts direction). The only time you can actually shoot is against NPC's or animals. 

 

 

Defensive is okay, but TNT or explosive ammo still kills defensive players easily. I've been on the receiving end of that. 

You can also kill other players with TNT in defensive mode and get no hostility.

 

Or you can kill them via hitting them with your horse.

 

Once I shot someone while in def. mode and I instantly dropped out of it and earned hostility.

 

It's a little...wonky. But it's better than passive from GTAO and made RDRO waaaay better than what it was.

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Jason

They'll undoubtebly be improvements to it in the summer update but that is part of the problem with RDO and GTAO. Rockstar choose to support their online games in big patches every few months versus hotfixing and tweaking 2-3 times a month. It's an old fashioned way of handling online games and it's not the good kind of old fashioned.

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Pocket Fox

It'd be because of MS/Sony and how updates are handled etc.

 

On good ol PC you can have dozens of patches. Everytime I launch steam ARK has an update, sometimes a few a day!

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Jason
1 minute ago, Pocket Fox said:

It'd be because of MS/Sony and how updates are handled etc.

Epic manage bi-weekly patches just fine, and they managed weekly patches before they moved away from that cause it was an extra dose of hellish on top of their hellish crunch.

 

Console patch certification doesn't take as long as you'd think if you've got the pull, I aint talking daily (but that can happen if it's priority stuff) but Rockstar are absolutely capable of putting out bi-weekly patches for the game on both platforms. They chose not to.

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Van_Hellsing

I get attacked in defensive mode on a regular basis. A dead giveaway is that the perp tries to run into you. If you do have a collision, you lose defensive. 

 

If you wait for the perp to open fire and you get hit, from that moment on, you can retaliate without losing defensive mode. 

 

 

I equip the LeMat shotgun and give'em the lead shower. After that I equip the bow with dynamite arrows. 

 

Most tryhards confuse defensive with weakness. When I am done they have more holes than a Swiss cheese. 

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Mad-Monkey_1st

Someone shoots me im in defense mode they then leg it of across the country i give chase but its only a matter of 5 mins before they can turn defense on and it can often take that long or longer to catch them, You die from the first shot he fired you have a small time span where you are re spawned and moved a set distance in that time the player that shot has had a head start running away.

 

I believe when a player attacks and kills someone who is in defense mode the offending players hostility should remain at medium or higher for far longer 5 mins is not enough.

 

If that offensive player has a decent horse and saddle and the player that was killed is low level with scrawny nag they just cannot get there revenge.

 

Got to say ive been killed several times in defense mode either by shotgun or rolling block to the head, Not once has any tried to kill me and ive survived the attack, Yes i know the methods ive stated above are one shot kills even in defense but no one has (that im aware of) killed the normal way in the street or from behind after passing them with hand gun or repeater, Maybe they have tried and couldnt get lock and didnt bother ? 

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StyxTx
5 hours ago, Mad-Monkey_1st said:

Someone shoots me im in defense mode they then leg it of across the country i give chase but its only a matter of 5 mins before they can turn defense on and it can often take that long or longer to catch them, You die from the first shot he fired you have a small time span where you are re spawned and moved a set distance in that time the player that shot has had a head start running away.

 

I believe when a player attacks and kills someone who is in defense mode the offending players hostility should remain at medium or higher for far longer 5 mins is not enough.

 

If that offensive player has a decent horse and saddle and the player that was killed is low level with scrawny nag they just cannot get there revenge.

 

Got to say ive been killed several times in defense mode either by shotgun or rolling block to the head, Not once has any tried to kill me and ive survived the attack, Yes i know the methods ive stated above are one shot kills even in defense but no one has (that im aware of) killed the normal way in the street or from behind after passing them with hand gun or repeater, Maybe they have tried and couldnt get lock and didnt bother ? 

Why bother with revenge. Just let them get their thrills and move on. To me, the people who go around shooting people for no reason aren't worth my time and I'm sure not going to waste ammo on them.

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Mad-Monkey_1st
21 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

Why bother with revenge. Just let them get their thrills and move on. To me, the people who go around shooting people for no reason aren't worth my time and I'm sure not going to waste ammo on them.

To be fair I usually do ignore them and move on but on the odd acasions I fancy some revenge not often though 

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AmyStone
21 hours ago, Jason said:

Yea it's a bit convoluted to say the least. Whether or not you can enter defensive mode depends on your hostility level, you need to be low hostility to enter it. If your hostility is raised to medium while in defensive mode you'll be removed from defensive mode.

 

Now, what exactly raises your hostility is... iffy and in my experience, sometimes a little off.

 

If a player attacks you then you are able to (or should be able to) attack them back with zero penalty to your hostility. If you are in defensive mode and you're attacked, you should be able to attack back without being removed from defensive mode.

 

I assume in the scenario you were in that the game believed you to be the aggressor in the situation (did you attack first?), so the other players hostility was never raised despite him fighting you, thus he was able to enter defensive mode, and as you were still tagged as the aggressor he was still able to fight you while in defensive mode.

 

There's definitely some loopholes in the system, such as being able to run into a defensive players horse, which the game perceives as the defensive mode player being aggressive and raises their hostility and removes them from defensive mode.

Ok if that's how it's supposed to work then it seems like nothing odd happened with what I saw. But it's very easy to exploit it and should really be changed. I'd like to see defensive go all together.

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Jason

Well, defensive mode has by and large solved the vast majority of griefing in the game, so removing it would just take us back to the dark ages. There are loopholes and I'm sure they'll try and plug those up but the game allows you to solve griefing with parleys so easily now and active griefers get punished with bounties and spawning far away.

 

There's an argument for defensive mode just making you completely ignore player damage including explosive and being being hit by a horse,  but there's no argument for defensive mode going away from an aggressor point of view.

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-LN-
16 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

Ok if that's how it's supposed to work then it seems like nothing odd happened with what I saw. But it's very easy to exploit it and should really be changed. I'd like to see defensive go all together.

If defensive mode were to go away, I'd quit playing entirely. It just needs to be tweaked a little; I do agree that currently it is easy to exploit, but it has been the one thing that's allowed me to enjoy the game again. I'd never want to go back to the way things were before the update though! 😮

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netnow66
9 minutes ago, Jason said:

There's an argument for defensive mode just making you completely ignore player damage including explosive and being being hit by a horse,  but there's no argument for defensive mode going away from an aggressor point of view.

And that's where I still want the game to go.

 

There are many people justifying glitching the game for that reason. Yes, I'm definitely one of them.

 

I have no problem being a poor cowboy. I have a problem being a griefed/bullied one.

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Leftover Pizza
59 minutes ago, -LN- said:

If defensive mode were to go away, I'd quit playing entirely. It just needs to be tweaked a little; I do agree that currently it is easy to exploit, but it has been the one thing that's allowed me to enjoy the game again. I'd never want to go back to the way things were before the update though! 😮

 

They can take Defensive Mode away from the game, as soon as they implement Invite Only and Solo sessions. If anyone wants PvP, there are lots of features in the game left to go do them. 

Keeping Freeroam clean and fair works for now, but I dread the coming months of summer vacations and bored kids/GTAO tryhards. 

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Jason

I'm not against solo/invite solutions, but they are not the alternative to defensive mode. I want to play in a session with other players, so defensive is a sound idea to me. I do think it can be improved a lot still and I think they need to sacrifice some of their principles when it comes to not wanting to do passive/ghost mode, I can understand their thinking for why they don't want to go that route but at the end of the day it's a video game with PvP and defensive mode blocking all player damage in or out would just solve so many problems.

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StyxTx

I'd like to see the blips on the map go away as well as a player's ranking in the players list. If people don't know what other player ranks are, then it's a harder decision on who to go after.

Another option would be to create lobbies based on ranking. Lobbies for those ranked 0-50, 51-100, etc so you don't have players ranked 300 chasing people with ranks in the 20's. Make it more of an even match for everyone.

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Mad-Monkey_1st
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

I'd like to see the blips on the map go away as well as a player's ranking in the players list. If people don't know what other player ranks are, then it's a harder decision on who to go after.

Another option would be to create lobbies based on ranking. Lobbies for those ranked 0-50, 51-100, etc so you don't have players ranked 300 chasing people with ranks in the 20's. Make it more of an even match for everyone.

Rank means f*ck all as to ability, All it means is how much time a certain player has put in Im 177 and useless at pvp and i know a few other players in the same mould

 

Edited by Mad-Monkey_1st

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StyxTx
Just now, Mad-Monkey_1st said:

Rank means f*ck all as to ability it it means is how much time a certain player has put in Im 177 and useless at pvp and i know a few other players in the same mould

 

Still, many griefers target players because they know what kind of weaponry that players has, etc. Most do not want to go after people who can match them.

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-LN-
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

They can take Defensive Mode away from the game, as soon as they implement Invite Only and Solo sessions. If anyone wants PvP, there are lots of features in the game left to go do them. 

Keeping Freeroam clean and fair works for now, but I dread the coming months of summer vacations and bored kids/GTAO tryhards. 

I'd still be ok with invite only sessions, but I'd imagine them to be much like invite only sessions in GTAO where we have limited options. Ideally though, yes, it would be nice to have dedicated PvP, PvE, and perhaps even custom lobbies where a variety of different options could be used or not used, but I don't think that idea seems very attractive to R*. They seem dead-set on keeping us all together; regardless of playing styles, aim preferences, and so on. I know they have stated that invite lobbies could be an option if things with defensive mode do not work out, but I'm not sure what sort of criteria would constitute it being a failure in their eyes.

 

What the game really needs though is more content. I'd rather them focus their attention on this and sort out the lobby situation when there's enough in the game to keep us entertained. As it stands; sure, the update was nice, but we definitely need more things to do (outside of PvP) than hunting, fishing, daily challenges that aren't centred around PvP, replaying the few story missions that we currently have available, etc. It seems that sheer boredom is a significant reason why others try and start fights or mindless try and target or kill anyone they come across in a lobby. If we are given more things to actually do, it may not be so much of an issue from that perspective. Granted, there's always going to be some who want to grief or PvP all the time, but if defensive mode is tweaked properly and continues to evolve, it will be easy enough to avoid such if you aren't interested in participating. We can only hope! I'm just trying to look at it realistically though; I just don't think they're interested in adding invite only lobbies unless things take a serious turn for the worse, so defensive mode is really all we have left to rely on at this point.

Edited by -LN-

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Mad-Monkey_1st
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

Still, many griefers target players because they know what kind of weaponry that players has, etc. Most do not want to go after people who can match them.

Still means f*ck all im afraid look at Ektope (cant remember his new ID on here)) he got to high 400 by end of feb and restarted from scratch and still as a new player totally owned showdowns without explosives, And there are many a good pvp'er in the low ranks 

 

Edited by Mad-Monkey_1st

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StyxTx

If there is someone ranked 150, do you think they'd choose to come after you or someone ranked 50? Those ranks open up new weapons, ammo, cards, etc.

 

So if someone goes after your friend, they will pay, but still, most griefers will go after those they think are weaker.

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Leftover Pizza
45 minutes ago, Jason said:

I'm not against solo/invite solutions, but they are not the alternative to defensive mode. I want to play in a session with other players, so defensive is a sound idea to me. I do think it can be improved a lot still and I think they need to sacrifice some of their principles when it comes to not wanting to do passive/ghost mode, I can understand their thinking for why they don't want to go that route but at the end of the day it's a video game with PvP and defensive mode blocking all player damage in or out would just solve so many problems.

 

Happens in any game where the one can kill the other. It's that easy and there are no grief resistant games, not even in a PvE environment, but to minimize the griefing is fairly well done with Defensive mode, though it needs tweaks. 

Blocking all player damage would actually be nothing more than the exact same thing as playing in an isolated session. The only difference is, that you play with other players around you. 

What, in my opinion, would be a better solution is separate servers for PvP and PvE players. That's still not griefer free (think about looting stuff someone else killed), but it reduces griefkilling to Zero. 

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Jason
2 minutes ago, Leftover Pizza said:

Blocking all player damage would actually be nothing more than the exact same thing as playing in an isolated session. The only difference is, that you play with other players around you. 

Is the exact same as

 

2 minutes ago, Leftover Pizza said:

What, in my opinion, would be a better solution is separate servers for PvP and PvE players. That's still not griefer free (think about looting stuff someone else killed), but it reduces griefkilling to Zero. 

If they split PvE and PvP they would, IMO, have to make changes to the open world in PvE. Random PvE conflicts in towns, more ambushes, etc. Defensive mode is nice because it keeps you in a world that feels alive. A straight up PvE lobby at the moment would be pretty dead.

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Xtf

I still think the best solution is friendly free roam.  Worked pretty well in the original rdr online.  It just means no player can target another player and are immune to explosions caused by another player.  I'm not saying get rid of lobbies how they are now, just give us the alternative option of friendly lobby at the game selection screen.

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Failed Again
13 hours ago, Van_Hellsing said:

I get attacked in defensive mode on a regular basis. A dead giveaway is that the perp tries to run into you. If you do have a collision, you lose defensive. 

 

If you wait for the perp to open fire and you get hit, from that moment on, you can retaliate without losing defensive mode. 

 

 

I equip the LeMat shotgun and give'em the lead shower. After that I equip the bow with dynamite arrows. 

 

Most tryhards confuse defensive with weakness. When I am done they have more holes than a Swiss cheese. 

Looks like you still can't lock on - autoaim not active-correct?

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