🏏 TO GRIEF OR NOT TO GRIEF, a brief guide.

[Jenkiiii]

This article is a guide on how to play (or not to play) fair in GTA online, as well as helping to define the terms 'griefing' and 'non-griefing'.
 
Many of us like to attack other players from time to time, but there are so many definitions of what this means and whether it can be defined as griefing or something else? We all know what griefing means to us personally like an unwritten code, but it's hard to explain it in words or within a GTA online context. Many people believe that by playing GTA online it gives them the right to attack other players non-stop, while other people believe they should be allowed to explore the game's environment without the interference of others at all, when actually it's a mix of both. Griefing appears to be a combination of various opinions: The person who wants to dominate and cause destruction and the person who is on the receiving end of that but prefers to be left in peace. I have assembled a semi-comprehensive list of what can be considered OK-TO-GRIEF Activities and NOT-OK-TO GRIEF Activities.
 
Let's start with the former OK-TO-GRIEF Activities, in which it is absolutely OK to grief and harass other players.

 
OK-TO-GRIEF Activities
 
1. Any type of Deathmatch, Capture, LTS or Adversary Mode
These activities take place in the 'clouds' and away from freemode and require the participation of selected groups of players. Every person should know what they're in for before the game takes place, so if they get owned or are not very good at this mode then there's nothing much to complain about, and we can even use the hackneyed expression 'git gud'. Practice, improve and learn how to win, and if you don't like it, move on.

2. Arena Wars
The purpose of AW is to take out other players in the pursuit of winning. Irrespective of coming first or last, fun can be had just by surviving and disrupting the antics of other players. It's not for everyone, requires a fair bit of learning and investment, but it's definitely not griefing. AW activities include:
•    Wreck It: A crazy race on an oval track involving traps, mines, weaponized vehicles, spectator drones and RC cars. Getting to the finish line can be a challenge and you even get to play as a spectator with remote control (RC) cars, drones and missiles.
•    Carnage: A vehicle deathmatch in which the last man/team standing wins. Spectators can participate too.
•    Here Comes The Monsters: Flee like a flea in your Weeny Issi, or stomp and crush in your Sasquatch.
Also:
•    Flag War // Hot Bomb // Tag Team // Games Masters // Buzzer Beater // Bomb Ball
 
VIP/CEO Jobs
3. Headhunter
In this mode, the VIP has to eliminate four targets within 15 minutes. Some players choose not to eliminate the targets at all but to utilize the allowed time to go after other players around the map, to avoid paying insurance costs or from incurring bad sport penalties. It's a dirty tactic but not exactly griefing. Players who wish to avoid being targeted should not go after the targets or get involved with participating players: you're potentially asking for trouble, and the host has the right to attack the lobby. If the host does NOT eliminate all of the targets, then competing players WIN and get paid for taking part, so although you may feel like you've been griefed, you haven't. You have taken part in a game mode to protect the targets for cash at the expense of potentially being killed multiple times by the host.

4. Fortified
It is difficult to be an active attacker or griefer in this mode because the main objective is to defend the Armoured Boxville, but you can still use it to bait other players or chase them around the map. Participants get paid when the Boxville gets destroyed in under 10 minutes, so there is nothing griefy about this.
 
5. Executive Search and Piracy Prevention
These modes are really easy to bait and defend, especially Executive Search in which you go off radar within the search area and can pick off nearby foes really easily. If you get killed by another player, or they kill you or capture the yacht, they get the majority of the fee, not you. This is definitely not griefing, and friendly players can simply stay away from the battle zones.
 
6. Fully Loaded
This can be the biggest nightmare of all if you get caught by a super-armoured Ruiner 2000 with amazing lock-on, especially in freemode where it's more difficult to shoot the driver. Granted, it can be considered borderline griefing because the vehicle is so powerful, but once again, stay away from the R2K if you don't want to take part, or grab one of the armoured limos and take your chances. Either get killed by defending, or earn the cash if the Ruiner 2000 fails to take out all the limos. It's dirty, aggressive, but not technically griefing.
 
7. Hostile Takeover
Register as a VIP/CEO to kick off this job. Grab the package and deliver it to get paid. Other players can kill you and steal the package, so it's definitely not griefing. This mode can be used by aggressive players to transfer the police wanted level to inexperienced players. Approach another player, get killed and allow them to pick up the package, transferring the 4-star wanted level over to them. Watch as they get chased by 4-star police, as well as other players in a desperate attempt to deliver the spoils.
 
8. Stand Your Ground as an MC President and crew
Similar to Executive Search and Piracy Prevention, a determined host can use this mode to bait players to their multiple deaths in an attempt to take over the occupied ground. Dirty crews will sometimes send out one or two crew members to scour the map and get kills without having to pay insurance or incur bad sport points, while the other members defend the area for cash. It's not griefing. Stay away if you don't want to take part.
 
 
There are other examples of legitimate VIP or MC jobs that are not classified as griefing, but these are the most obvious. Many people feel like they are being griefed in freemode when, in fact, they are not.
 
 
9. Client Jobs (requires Terrorbyte)
•    Robbery in Progress
•    Data Sweep
•    Targeted Data
•    Diamond Shopping
Interfering in another person's progress in any of these jobs is not griefing. It may feel like you are being griefed if someone snipes you from a building while you're trying to rob a bank in 'Robbery in Progress' or get the booty in 'Diamond Shopping', for example, but it really isn't. The person who grabs and delivers the spoils gets paid. Just be careful not to be the person who does all the work, only for someone else to swoop in and grab the winnings.

10. Business Battles
These battles are definitely not griefing. By taking part in one of these modes you accept that you're fighting for the spoils of war, and if another player chooses to camp and kill, with no intention of picking up the package/car/etc, you have already given your assent to be targeted just by taking part. And if you do get the package home, the rewards are pretty handsome: Up to 25k in cash plus a nice chunk of nightclub supplies that can be sold later (nightclub ownership required).
 
11. Various Freemode Events
E.g., King of the Castle, Hot Property, Hunt The Beast, etc.
Again, aggressive players will use these events to bait other players and get kills. These are just a few examples. You can choose to snipe or overpower the 'king' with no intention of taking over the castle itself, or hold the Hot Property briefcase with the intention of baiting inexperienced players into going after you, or become the Beast just to maraud the map while off-radar and physically very strong. None of these modes are griefing. They are legit freemode games established by Rockstar to provide the spoils (cash) to the winner, and you are accepting the possibility of being repetitively killed just by taking part.

 

12. Bounties
Going round the map killing multiple bounties is definitely not griefing, and if a person responds to having their bounty taken by retaliating against you, then killing them again is probably not griefing either. However, prolonging this process or taking it into other sessions can be associated with griefing, yes.
~additional credit @flybar

 

13. Heist Prep Missions

The Doomsday Heist DLC introduced a new concept to GTA online: Before you can start a heist mission, you have to gather prep equipment distributed around the map such as Strombergs that need to be driven back to your Facility. Other players are encouraged to stop you from doing this so that they can gather the equipment and advance their own heist prep missions. Killing other players and competing for the spoils is not griefing but a legitimate part of GTA online, although grabbing the equipment and taunting other players with no intention of completing the setup mission can be classified as borderline griefing.
 
14.  Additional VIP/MC Jobs
Even more modes exist that are not classified as griefing if you use them to go after other players. Here's a brief list:
•    Sightseer: collect three packages around the map within the time limit to win. Other players can kill the package carrier for cash.
•    Haulage: similar to other collect and drop missions. Grab the trailer and deliver it, or not!
•    Airfreight: this time you collect and deliver a container by using a cargobob. Other players try to prevent you from doing so.
•    Weapon of Choice: kill targets around the map. Do it with specific weapons for extra cash.
•    By The Pound: deliver packages of cocaine do drop-off points around the map.
 
~thanks to @Big Molio for his additional suggestions.
 
 
There are further missions out there, so please post your opinions in the comments section of this thread if you want to see something added.
 
 
NOTE
The point of this section is to underline that none of the aforementioned examples are technically griefing. You may feel like you are being targeted and continuously killed, but these are legit ways for players to make money AND have fun by targeting weaker players. It's not necessarily right to snipe or swoop for kills with no obvious objectives, but these modes can still pay out decently even when you underperform against other players.
 
 
BORDERLINE Griefing

Going round the map and killing other players for no reason is a pretty good definition of griefing. Is it wrong? Well, that depends on the age-old viewpoint between the aggressor and defender, and it's very much a question of opinion. If you're doing well then it feels like a well-implemented part of the game, but if you cannot get basic tasks done then it can certainly feel like aggressive griefing.
 
Other types of borderline griefing exist (perhaps better labelled as 'trolling') such as purposely ramming into other players during a race, driving backwards around the track to create havoc and spoiling the race for others, or blocking segments of the track to prevent others from finishing. Some players work in groups to enable their slower team-mates to win races against faster individual racers. In addition to racing, griefing can extend to team-based jobs that involve purposely killing, hindering and/or harassing your own teammates, or purposely failing a job or mission for the sole intent of wasting everyone's time and effort.
~additional credit @-LN-
 

Freemode Events

Aggression in certain types of freemode events can be considered borderline griefing, while others are definitely not griefing (see above).

Events such as 'reverse the longest distance without crashing', 'perform the most near misses', 'achieve the highest speed in a land vehicle', etc., are harmless events that give the top three contestants a bit of extra cash. Killing people who are participating in these events is borderline greifing, but not outright griefing because it could prevent that person from winning the event, by reducing their tally before the timer runs down.

 

Heists and similar cooperative modes

Joining a heist and refusing to cooperate with other players or failing to complete mission objectives on purpose is considered borderline griefing. Taking a vehicle to the wrong side of the map or sinking it in the Alamo Sea is unfriendly and antagonistic behaviour, as well as intentionally killing yourself or other players. The same goes for freemode delivery missions when helping out another player, such as crashing the Cuban 800 on purpose or dumping a Brickade into a Vinewood swimming pool just because you can, and even on Contact Missions by blowing up the coke/meth or refusing to enter the corona at Gerald's apartment, for example. However, blowing up the payload because you know no better or by being an incompetent player is not considered borderline griefing.

~thanks to @Lonely-Martinfor suggesting heists here.

 

Orbital Cannon
Using the orbital cannon is borderline griefing because it allows you attack anyone, anytime for absolutely any reason, unless they are passive or hidden inside a building. This is Rockstar-sanctioned griefing, which can be accessed by Facility owners for an upfront fee of $500k or $750k depending on the required level of accuracy.
Note: this system can be abused by dashboarding the game after your OC strike hits, thereby avoiding the hefty fee from being deducted from your account. This is definitely griefing because it is not a permitted in-game mechanism, but there is a significant cooldown before it can be used again and the attacker doesn't get accredited for anything, has to reload the game, find a new session, etc. It's more of an inconvenience for the attacker, actually, especially if they do pay the gigantic fee!

 

NOT-OK-TO GRIEF Activities

Now, this is where the discussion gets interesting, and some players will disagree.
 
Rockstar has a nasty habit of posting messages on the screen to encourage players to go after a target for little or no reward. Agent 14, for example, messages you about gunrunning shipments taking place around the map: Go and destroy them because it's what you're supposed to do. These messages are quite deceptive. You can spend a lot of time chasing shadows and creating enemies for practically no reward. On the other hand, there ARE instances where targeting another player can be beneficial, so let's describe the individual scenarios in more detail.

 

NON-BENEFICIAL GRIEFING
Let's face it, if you want to be that player and kick full-time lobby ass then make a beeline for other people's cargo shipments. They will hate you for it, rage quit, try to get their revenge, etc., and you will have that smug glow of knowing that you might have wrecked another person's day/session. This is a pretty good definition of griefing. But why? No-one has the right to tell you how to play a video game, right? The main issue is Rockstar's very blurry attitude on what the advantages or disadvantages of aggressive behaviour actually are. They don't define certain situations, and all seems to be good as far as they are concerned, so I have attempted to differentiate between activities that involve well-spent time and effort, in which aggressive behaviour gets you something back in return, and activities in which there are no benefits other than getting the upper-hand on other players.
 
Firstly, a list of activities in which you get very little back in return for your efforts, and mostly just the satisfaction of griefing another player.

1. Special Cargo;
2. Gunrunning Ammunition;
3. MC Biker Cargo.
 
These three items can be split into two subcategories:
a) Collections
•    Destroying cargo collections earns you very little reward besides a few RP and some personal satisfaction. However, the defender only loses a package or two, sometimes a bit of cash, but mostly hurt pride and some wasted time.
b) Deliveries 
•    Destroying these shipments could potentially cost the defender millions of dollars in revenue, and that's why it's the holy grail of no-no/yes-yes griefing. If you hate griefing, then you will loathe this when it happens, or rejoice and yelp (probably) when you get that hit. Go for it if you really want to damage the income of another player. However, it's really difficult to tell at a glance whether this is a collection or delivery mission, so what might not look like a big deal on the surface, could in fact be a massive deal to the person trying to make cash.
 
Note that both subcategories a) and b) can be considered forms of griefing due to the minuscule rewards for successfully defeating the carrier. The defender (carrier) can lose a lot, especially in scenario b).
 
We now need to discuss subcategory b) in more depth, and include items 1, 2 and 3 into the discussion.
 
1. Special Cargo
It can literally take weeks and months to build up a warehouse full of stock. If this gets destroyed during delivery, it can be a massive financial hit to the seller. Sensible players will look for solo or 'guaranteed' lobbies before attempting a sale. Even worse, it's necessary to deliver the entire payload in order to get paid, so partial deliveries are worth nothing except plenty of wasted time.
2. Gunrunning
The same as above, and if this cargo is destroyed then the carrier/seller can lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. However, you do get paid per item delivered, so delivering multiple items can still lead to a decent profit on certain missions.
3. MC Cargo: coke, meth, counterfeit cash, weed and forged documents.
The same as above. A successful attacker gets nothing more than a few RP and GTA$, whereas the defender could be impacted heavily. Partial deliveries are still good though, in the same way as Gunrunning.

 

People who attack items 1, 2 or 3, especially sub-category b) scenarios, get very little in reward besides personal satisfaction at disrupting another player's progress. It is definitely allowed and encouraged by Rockstar, but generally considered to be griefing because of the unbalanced reward/loss ratio.

 

However, there are several cargo-based missions where attacking is perfectly justified, which is one of the reasons why people get so confused about what to attack/what not to attack, or what to complain about, simply because Rockstar don't make it clear enough.

 

4. Airfreight
5. Import/Export Cars
6. Nightclub Promotions and Deliveries
 
These examples are slightly different to items 1, 2 and 3 because you are able to steal the cargo and/or get significant rewards.
 
4. Airfreight Cargo (hangar ownership required).
Kill the carrier and grab the cargo for subsequent delivery to your own hangar. This is not griefing or dirty tactics, but it can go awry if you destroy the vehicle driven/flown by the host, thereby destroying the cargo inside. It's not really worth attacking these missions because the only way of realistically making money from Airfreight Cargo is to collect multiples of exactly the same type of cargo, e.g. chemicals or narcotics, and gain a bonus by doing so, so stealing a box of random-product from another person is potentially worth nothing to you. It's a nice statistic to have on your hangar laptop though: cargo stolen=x. Also, it's difficult to tell between collection and delivery missions, so you could be destroying weeks of potential work.
 
5. Import/Export Cars
Going after these vehicles is technically OK because you can steal the cars and return them to your own warehouse. The problem tends to be blowing up the cars by mistake. The only way to realistically steal the car is to shoot the driver while on foot, which is pretty tough. Stealing a car is a legit tactic though and not griefing, but it's actually easier to source and sell your own vehicles, so you decide.
 
Additionally, camping outside the I/E warehouse is a pretty good and perfectly valid tactic. Some players know the locations well, so they can predict if the player is doing the I/E mission. They can shoot the driver the moment they enter the car.
~additional credit @flexcreator
 
6. Nightclub Promotions and Deliveries
Tony calls to inform you about an in-progress mission that can be taken down to boost the popularity of your own nightclub. If it's a nightclub promotion mission, it's definitely not griefing. Kill the other player/vehicle and boost your own popularity, and see that blimp go BOOM! However, if it's a nightclub cargo delivery mission (again, how can you differentiate between promotion or delivery?) then you could be destroying someone else's accumulated and very-expensive stock for little or no reward, which is definitely griefing. 
 

 

In a nutshell, griefing can largely be defined as an activity that disrupts another player from making in-game progress, for little or no reward on the part of the attacker.
 
 

That's it for now. This thread is maintained on a regular basis and will be updated after new DLC material is digested.

Please respect that this article isn't supposed to be judgemental - it's up to you to play GTA online the way you see fit - but instead serve as a guide to what is, and isn't, beneficial griefing or fair play in GTA online. If there's no in-game financial reward, then you're probably better off doing your own missions so that you can buy all the great properties, businesses, vehicles, clothes, etc., that GTA online has to offer. But that's just an opinion.
 
What you should be wary about is Rockstar's lack of clarity on the rewards or risks for taking out other players in certain situations. A seasoned griefer will relish every opportunity to cause as much damage as possible, but many innocent players can get duped into thinking an activity could be of benefit to them, only to end up wasting many hours for no in-game pay and also get counter-griefed in return until they desist, go passive or leave.
 
I hope you enjoyed this article. Please post examples of any other obvious griefing or non-griefing situations that could take place in GTA online, and I will attempt to include them in this guide.
 
Cheers!
JENKiiii
 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jenkiiii

[Agent 14]

Guys I'd like to be first to ask if we can keep the discussion civilized. Even if we disagree on things at the end of the day we're all customers and we all paid the for the game. 

 

 

This topic isn't a topic to troll or to antagonize others due to having different opinions. This topic purpose is to inform people and to help others come to a mutual understanding.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Agent 14

[Jenkiiii]

The Mk II version is up!

 

Let's face it, griefing is a very interesting topic that brings out a lot emotions in many of us. The subject isn't going to disappear overnight, so I have attempted to approach it in a level-headed and neutral manner, in an attempt to (possibly) explain that there are times when griefing is definitely OK (not actually griefing) and times when it is not so OK (continuous antagonistic and bad behaviour).

 

Thanks, folks. Discuss away, and see you on the other side if I get banned!

[kenmy13999]

^^ please prove me wrong but I think forum history suggests that it will turn out like the rest of the threads, which is a damn shame with all the effort Jenkiiii put in the op 

[Philphuge]

Attacking others in FM isn't griefing. everything else I agree on it was alot to read so I skimmed through it

[jdv95]

well time to put my input into this.

 

1. destroying cargo. there is no excuse to do that unless it's payback to the griefer that is destroying other people's cargo. 

so doing this unprovoked does qualify as griefing. 

 

2.bounty hunting does not count as griefing unless you keep killing the player over and over again after you claimed the bounty.

 

3.partaking in VIP jobs where violence is used (piracy prevention,executive search etc) does not count towards griefing.

 

4.starting VIP jobs in order to go on a kill spree without paying for insurance and getting bad sport points can be counted towards griefing since the player exploits this system and  does not intend to actually play the job. 

 

5.payback is not griefing. it does become griefing when you target innocent people over and over again.

 

6.abuse of the off radar and passive mode systems to kill people with minimal risk can be counted as griefing if the targets are innocent players. can be used for payback agains a griefer however.

 

7.killing teamates in LTS and co op missions does count as griefing since there is nothing to gain from doing this other than putting your team at a dissavantage.

 

8.blocking the finish line in races without that player racing does count as griefing since the sole reason the player does this is to annoy other people and hurting their race.

 

9. partaking in business battles is not griefing. trying to blow up the cargo however is. since that is not the goal of the business battle.

 

10.stealing cargo is not realy griefing unless it is done just to annoy the players without intending to keep the cargo  for yourself.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by jdv95

[Philphuge]

Just now, jdv95 said:

well time to put my input into this.

 

1. destroying cargo. there is no excuse to do that unless it's payback to the griefer that is destroying other people's cargo. 

so doing this unprovoked does qualify as griefing. 

 

2.bounty hunting does not count as griefing unless you keep killing the player over and over again after you claimed the bounty.

 

3.partaking in VIP jobs where violence is used (piracy prevention,executive search etc) does not count towards griefing.

 

4.starting VIP jobs in order to go on a kill spree without paying for insurance and getting bad sport points can be counted towards griefing since the player exploits this system and not intending to actually play the job. 

 

5.payback is not griefing. it does become griefing when you target innocent people over and over again.

 

6.abuse of the off radar and passive mode systems to kill people with minimal risk can be counted as griefing if the targets are innocent players. can be used for payback agains a griefer however.

 

7.killing teamates in LTS and co op missions does count as griefing since there is nothing to gain from doing this other than putting your team at a dissavantage.

 

8.blocking the finish line in races without that player racing does count as griefing since the sole reason the player does this is to annoy other people and hurting their race.

 

9. partaking in business battles is not griefing. trying to blow up the cargo however is. since that is not the goal of the business battle.

 

10.stealing cargo is not realy griefing unless it is done just to annoy the players without intending to keep the cargo  for yourself.

 

 

1. This is where you are wrong, people are rewarded for destroying cargo. In order for it to be argued griefing it must be completely unrewarding, and even then it goes case by case.

 

4. Is not griefing as the game offers that to the player, especially with the limitations that come with it. 

 

5. Depends on the case.

 

6. This is fair game as the game once again offers it, and it alerts everyone. What do you expect a huge red sign to popup?

 

7. Depends on the case

 

8. It's a race, props are everywhere you can avoid vehicles and plan ahead.

 

 

[jdv95]

Just now, Philphuge said:

1. This is where you are wrong, people are rewarded for destroying cargo. In order for it to be argued griefing it must be completely unrewarding, and even then it goes case by case.

 

4. Is not griefing as the game offers that to the player, especially with the limitations that come with it. 

 

5. Depends on the case.

 

6. This is fair game as the game once again offers it, and it alerts everyone. What do you expect a huge red sign to popup?

 

7. Depends on the case

 

8. It's a race, props are everywhere you can avoid vehicles and plan ahead.

 

 

already stopped reading after the first point you made.

 

but hey you're a new member with a suspicous name so i'm not suprised.

[Philphuge]

Just now, jdv95 said:

already stopped reading after the first point you made.

 

but hey you're a new member with a suspicous name so i'm not suprised.

You were proven wrong how are you going to get upset mods closed this when you aren't even discussing the topic and what's suspicious about my name 

[Agent 14]

Just now, jdv95 said:

already stopped reading after the first point you made.

 

but hey you're a new member with a suspicous name so i'm not suprised.

Just add him to the ignore list and report the obvious rejoiner like I did. 

 

 

Make things much easier.

[Philphuge]

Just now, Agent 14 said:

Just add him to the ignore list and report the obvious rejoiner like I did. 

 

 

Make things much easier.

Cry me a river I hope mods lock this again 

[jdv95]

Just now, Philphuge said:

Cry me a river I hope mods lock this again 

ah you must be that previously banned user.

 

got ya.

 

on ignore you go plus a nice report.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

1 minute ago, Agent 14 said:

Just add him to the ignore list and report the obvious rejoiner like I did.

We knew before he even started posting....

Given the start, this return is not going to last very long, unless changes are made to the posting style.

[Philphuge]

Just now, jdv95 said:

ah you must be that previously banned user.

 

got ya.

 

on ignore you go plus a nice report.

lol this my first time on this forum my IP is clean kid, I reported you aswell.

[kcole4001]

26 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

This article is a guide on how to play (or not to play) fair in GTA online, as well as helping to define the terms 'griefing' and 'non-griefing'.
 
.....
 
I hope you enjoyed this article. .....
 
Cheers!
 

A valiant effort once again, though I feel I've posted my POV (if not actually made my point) often enough.

I don't feel the use of arguing back and forth, one side's arguments are not going to change the attitude of those in the opposite camp.

Suffice it to say I'm not a PvP player and have no interest in it.

I do respect those who engage in what may or may not be griefing (according to opinion) and take responsibility for their actions.

Excuses are lame.

 

Best of luck with the new discussion (minus the obvious troll yet again).  👍

[IsekaiExpress]

4 minutes ago, Philphuge said:

lol this my first time on this forum my IP is clean kid, I reported you aswell.

Bye.

[Philphuge]

Just now, Polynoid said:

Bye mr

Bye, not sure why u telling me bye this my first time here so I'll see you around.

3 minutes ago, Philphuge said:

Bye, not sure why u telling me bye this my first time here so I'll see you around.

I'm not sure how to edit but let's get on topic 

1. This is where you are wrong, people are rewarded for destroying cargo. In order for it to be argued griefing it must be completely unrewarding, and even then it goes case by case.

 

4. Is not griefing as the game offers that to the player, especially with the limitations that come with it. 

 

5. Depends on the case.

 

6. This is fair game as the game once again offers it, and it alerts everyone. What do you expect a huge red sign to popup?

 

7. Depends on the case

 

8. It's a race, props are everywhere you can avoid vehicles and plan ahead

[Jenkiiii]

8 minutes ago, Philphuge said:

Bye, not sure why u telling me bye this my first time here so I'll see you around.

Can I add something to the discussion?

 

No? OK here goes then... can you try and discuss the pros and cons of griefing instead of getting into a pointless back-and-forth discussion about who has the most marbles?

 

Speaking of marbles, just chill, watch the MarbleLympics for a bit and then post something worth reading. Cheers, everyone!

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Jenkiiii

[Philphuge]

1 minute ago, Jenkiiii said:

Can I add something to the discussion?

 

No? OK here goes then... can you try and discuss the pros and cons of griefing instead of getting into a pointless back-and-forth discussion about who has the most marbles 

 

Speaking of marbles, just chill, watch the MarbleLympics for a bit and then post something worth reading. Cheers!

 

 

1. This is where you are wrong, people are rewarded for destroying cargo. In order for it to be argued griefing it must be completely unrewarding, and even then it goes case by case.

 

4. Is not griefing as the game offers that to the player, especially with the limitations that come with it. 

 

5. Depends on the case.

 

6. This is fair game as the game once again offers it, and it alerts everyone. What do you expect a huge red sign to popup?

 

7. Depends on the case

 

8. It's a race, props are everywhere you can avoid vehicles and plan ahead

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

18 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

We knew before he even started posting....

So, what are you guys waiting to ban him again?

 

He's not here to discuss, he's just here to stirr sh*t up, again.

[Philphuge]

Just now, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

So, what are you guys waiting to ban him again?

 

He's not here to discuss, he's just here to stirr sh*t up, again.

I'm not a troll I'm reading your comments and seeing what's said. They aren't waiting, they are just waiting for me to slip but this is my first time here and I'm not causing trouble. In fact I am making friends 

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

1 minute ago, Philphuge said:

I'm not a troll I'm reading your comments and seeing what's said. They aren't waiting, they are just waiting for me to slip but this is my first time here and I'm not causing trouble. In fact I am making friends 

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

3 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

So, what are you guys waiting to ban him again?

 

He's not here to discuss, he's just here to stirr sh*t up, again.

It's not the original troll that got the first thread knocked, and so long as he behaves he can stay.

But we're watching, you can be sure of that.

[Philphuge]

Just now, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

It's not the original troll, and so long as he behaves he can stay.

But we're watching, you can be sure of that.

Thank you, the moderation team has spoken thank you. I won't let you guys down. 

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

Well, in that case, let's get this bread:

 

17 minutes ago, Philphuge said:

1. This is where you are wrong, people are rewarded for destroying cargo. In order for it to be argued griefing it must be completely unrewarding, and even then it goes case by case.

Something rewarded, promoted or even forced by the developers can still be griefing, see every survival game like Rust or even Eve Online as an extreme example of it.

 

By your own logic, is destroying I/E cargo griefing? I mean, that pays nothing at all.

 

19 minutes ago, Philphuge said:

4. Is not griefing as the game offers that to the player, especially with the limitations that come with it.

It may be a game feature, but it's obvious that it's not meant to be exploited by players wanting to grief, so yeah, it's not griefing on its own but it can be used for griefing without any negative consequence (like paying for insurance).

 

20 minutes ago, Philphuge said:

6. This is fair game as the game once again offers it, and it alerts everyone. What do you expect a huge red sign to popup?

Same as above.

 

35 minutes ago, Philphuge said:

7. Depends on the case

Not really, killing your team mates in an obvious team based or coop game mode is textbook griefing definition.

 

36 minutes ago, Philphuge said:

8. It's a race, props are everywhere you can avoid vehicles and plan ahead.

Exactly, it's a race, you're meant to race against other players, not to disrupt the race so they can't progress through it, so yes, it's griefing too.

 

And good luck trying to plan ahead when a group of players decide to obstruct a choke point or a ramp.

[Agent 14]

29 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

We knew before he even started posting....

Given the start, this return is not going to last very long, unless changes are made to the posting style.

 

I have a question. Why should everyone else pay the price because of some asshat behavior? I mean is not the topic that's the issue is the obvious trolls that wants to derail topics just for them to laugh. Even if you close this topic that's not going to stop them from rejoining again under a VPN or after changing their IP to derail another topic. I don't want to make it look like a huge scene. But is there anything you guys can do to keep them from making accounts?

[Xiled]

Going back to what I said yesterday before things happened

 

This has now been an ongoing discussion for over 3 years now, clearly something is wrong with game design. Allowing them to be played in private lobbies wouldn't hurt anything as we can already do them in empty public lobbies. Fighting them blue sultan's in import export for instance 

https://gtaforums.com/topic/857181-gta-online-petition-allow-players-to-play-finance-felony-in-an/

Edited June 19, 2019 by Xiled

[Agent 14]

10 minutes ago, Xiled said:

Going back to what I said yesterday before things happened

 

This has now been an ongoing discussion for over 3 years now, clearly something is wrong with game design if these topics keep getting made so often, what is this like the 5th one? Im starting to lose track

https://gtaforums.com/topic/857181-gta-online-petition-allow-players-to-play-finance-felony-in-an/

Well this all on take two and rockstar since they're the ones that keep making it possible for grief to grief and for victims of griefing to complain. 

 

Some people don't wanna admit but sharkcards plays a role in this. Take two is using a predatory algorithm by sanctioning griefing in their own way. They know people are tired of the crap that's goes on the game. While expecting grinders to give up on grinding and pay shark cards. Since shark cards is priority product that they want to profit of. Griefing in this game is optional is up to the griefers to grief or not to grief the problem is griefers blowing cargo = shark cards sales which mean rockstar and take two don't care as long they make a buck.

 

Which is why more griefing tools like the mark 2 will be continue to be added and there will always be an uproar from grinders who are victims of griefers.

 

Edit I'll go as far to say that is a never ending cycle. Threads like this one will continue to exist as long rockstar and take two continue their shady business model.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Agent 14

[Nyamber]

There's no point even posting in this thread until the obvious troll gets banned. Again.

[Geisterfaust]

I swear, kids without school are getting too far away from Snapchat or whatever Grindr that's popular right now and somehow manage to stumble upon this forum again and again. One could hope that actually typing instead of recording yourself will stop them, but some are actually fit enough to use a keyboard. Probably, on a touchscreen, though.

 

Oh, and @Philphuge, you can't be the legend of this section not for the obvious reason of being registered within the last 24 hours, but more because who are @Jolly Swagman and @scubadave then?

Edited June 19, 2019 by hei3enberg