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~INDIO~

3 Things You Would Change

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Ironside
9 hours ago, Duhillestpunk said:

Yeah but I meant weapon inventory. Should’ve been more specific sorry.

The weapon inventory is a digital migraine in itself, so I agree with you totally. I would love to be able to leave some weapons in the camp or a garbage can of sort, especially the fuggly non modable weapons one gains from flaco, granger etc

 

The “special” or “unique” or whatever the call it, rollingblock, double barrel shotgun and so on I would like to be able to sell. 

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Alexlecj

I think Javier Escuella should have had a part in one of the preparatory missions in Chapter 6, in order to flesh out even more his blind loyalty to Dutch.

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Lance_Vance89

1. More side-missions with the various gang members to flesh them out more.

 

2. Make Guarma bigger, less linear, more missions and less retarded (aka Hercule Fontaine somehow finding a boat while in the fort shooting on the military).

 

3. More customization in gang hideout, actually having a place for all gang members to sleep (It's no wonder that Dutch went crazy when he's not sleeping one second the entire game) and NPCs have sleeping patterns (the mission where you rob the brother-in-law made you believe there was a NPC sleeping pattern that you could utilize).

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jazzbone

1. Way less weather effects. Beautiful game world when not spoiled by fog, rain, dust storms, ect.

2. More options in setttings which would offer a fix for those that want less, way less, or no crap weather.
Along with weather options would be dof effects off, camera high or low while on horse or driving a buggy,
camera not going low in full gallop, keep long arms on character after dismounting, quick skin where the long skinning and storage animations
are removed , quick change between 2 weapon wheel slots that change between the last 2 selections
like in Far Cry games and done by a quick tap on button used to whistle for horse, and more.

Overall my number 2 is a quality of life change. A change that offers options that would increase the pleasure of playing RDR2.

3. A more powerful lever repeater rifle like a Winchester chambered in 45-70.
The power of the Springfield but faster fire rate and holding 6 or 7 rounds.

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crazedZ10
2 hours ago, jazzbone said:

1. Way less weather effects. Beautiful game world when not spoiled by fog, rain, dust storms, ect.

2. More options in setttings which would offer a fix for those that want less, way less, or no crap weather.
Along with weather options would be dof effects off.

Also an option to take off the annoying filters, they bug me so damn much. The silver/gold killcams, the red/orange deadeye, the orange New Austin one...ugh.  They look so cheap and tacky 

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sunhuntin

With the exotics quest, I wish the log entry would show how many you have collected, instead of just the total needed. It's a bit annoying having to go to the log to see what you need, and then go to the satchel to see what you actually have. And with the satchel, it would be nice to be able to group things alpahbetically, especially for the orchids

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Jabalous
Posted (edited)

1. Chapter 5 to take place in Nuevo Paraiso instead of Guarma. It'd be a nice way to introduce the map into the game.

 

2. More realistic weather cycles. Basically rain, fog, mist and other effects need to happen less frequently. I believe they're overused and I don't prefer it this way, especially when they happen in the dry and hot deserts of New Austin. 

 

3. Maybe this is asking for too much as it'd change how the whole story could play out, and maybe the whole Redemption and a gang-like-a-family theme, but I'd rather have a gang that is true to its era. The whole diversity theme, which is clearly forced and do not have a basis in reality, isn't what I'd have preferred and it's actually not what I imagined the gang to be like when Marston talked about it in 2010's Redemption. In that time, I had an image of a gang made up of strong and ruthless men, but with a hint of a moral compass, and nothing that includes ladies. 

Edited by Jabalous

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GinsengElixir

Whilst I do agree with point 3 somewhat...what did the ladies actually do? They cleaned mostly. It was also implied that they performed whore duties aswell.

 

'Everyone had her', Dutch says about Abigail. If you read between the lines, we can assume Karen also was passed about. When you storm 6 point cabin they also have women in camp.

 

They all had criminal backgrounds aswell. Mary-Beth was a thief, Tilly part of a gang etc. I think the idea was that the gang were a bunch of outcasts, outsiders etc forming a society rather than a professional outlaw group. 

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Jabalous
5 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

Whilst I do agree with point 3 somewhat...what did the ladies actually do? They cleaned mostly. It was also implied that they performed whore duties aswell.

 

'Everyone had her', Dutch says about Abigail. If you read between the lines, we can assume Karen also was passed about. When you storm 6 point cabin they also have women in camp.

 

They all had criminal backgrounds aswell. Mary-Beth was a thief, Tilly part of a gang etc. I think the idea was that the gang were a bunch of outcasts, outsiders etc forming a society rather than a professional outlaw group. 

The issue is that such a gang, which is made up of characters of nearly every ethnic background in the era, does not have a basis in reality. Yes it makes more drama in the story and it serves it well in this regard, but it's clearly forced and sometimes feels cringy.

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GinsengElixir

Oh I totally agree about that, it had every token in the book. 

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~INDIO~
6 hours ago, Jabalous said:

1. Chapter 5 to take place in Nuevo Paraiso instead of Guarma. It'd be a nice way to introduce the map into the game.

 

2. More realistic weather cycles. Basically rain, fog, mist and other effects need to happen less frequently. I believe they're overused and I don't prefer it this way, especially when they happen in the dry and hot deserts of New Austin. 

 

3. Maybe this is asking for too much as it'd change how the whole story could play out, and maybe the whole Redemption and a gang-like-a-family theme, but I'd rather have a gang that is true to its era. The whole diversity theme, which is clearly forced and do not have a basis in reality, isn't what I'd have preferred and it's actually not what I imagined the gang to be like when Marston talked about it in 2010's Redemption. In that time, I had an image of a gang made up of strong and ruthless men, but with a hint of a moral compass, and nothing that includes ladies. 

I agree with this completely. 

A Mexico area to explore would've been a lot better (Hopefully it'll be in RDR3).

 

The abrupt weather changes are pretty disappointing to say they worked on the game for 8 years.

Takes away from the realism.

Maybe it's to show off storm effects, but it kinda loses it's magic when there are 10 storms a day.

 

Pretty much all the female characters just seemed like filler.

They felt kinda shoehorned in last minute to go along with the "diversity everywhere" shtick.

Felt forced like you say, cringey dialogue a lot of the time too.

Of course Sadie is above preparing food for the gang!🙃

We get it, you're a strong independent woman now... so go do some f*cking work like the rest of us!

 

I don't think the writers are good enough to write a script for a proper wild west gang unfortunately.

This is evident in RDR2's dialogue, relying on current political trends and today's tissue issues.

It's a cheap, easy way out of coming up with actual meaningful content IMO

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Jabalous
1 hour ago, ~INDIO~ said:

I don't think the writers are good enough to write a script for a proper wild west gang unfortunately.

This is evident in RDR2's dialogue, relying on current political trends and today's tissue issues.

It's a cheap, easy way out of coming up with actual meaningful content IMO

I believe they can, but a script for a proper wild west gang wouldn't include all the drama and forced emotions of Redemption 2 and It'd likely not be as memorable and impactful for players. A true-to-the-era story will involve a nonredeemable outlaw/gang whose sole existence would be to steal and kill in order to further their own interests. Sure R* can beef it up a little by giving them a hint of a moral compass like most of the Western movies do, but that'd be good enough compared to what we had in RDR2. 

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Tonesta

Somewhat repeating what's already been said, but for me it would've been:

 

1) Cut Guarma

2) Set a Chapter in New Austin

 

My feeling, after 200 hours of the game, was that there were probably some late changes in game development tied to both these areas.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it felt as if Guarma was originally going to be a bigger, roamable location. If that had been the case, then Chapter 5 would have been a fun, welcome break from the story's dark descent. But as it was, it became this short, on rails interlude that felt contrary to everything I love about an open world Rockstar game. If they couldn't do Guarma properly, they should have cut it from the game completely.

By contrast, New Austin was vast, open and beautiful......but there was so little happening there. The nostalgia factor was sky high, but otherwise there was minimal reason for it to be included (in SP at least). It honestly felt like something they'd added at a later stage of the game's development to provide a more 'western' feel, but they ran out of time to incorporate it into the story properly (as it was, it was just the one, solitary Sadie mission). I understand that there would have be retcon challenges with the first game, but a Chapter that had Arthur, or a small team, going there for a series of missions would've given the region some purpose - which it otherwise lacked.

 

3) Come up with a sensible Gambler Challenge #8

 

Seriously, a special place in hell awaits for whoever thought the one they included was a fair and reasonable challenge; how about something that forces you to display a modicum of skill rather than just wait for up to three hours for some dumb luck?

It enraged me so much that it's still the only thing between me and 100% completion.

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DarksunDaFirst
On 6/13/2019 at 11:05 PM, ~INDIO~ said:

What are the 3 main things you would change or like to see improved? 

 

1. Improved Cattleman power. 3 or 4 shots to kill someone with this weapon is absurd.

Also, give us the Colt Navy 1851/61. It's a western, what are you doing Rockstar..?🙄

NO ONE wants those sh*tty, ugly ass pistols. WE WANT REVOLVERS.

It's 1899 - the Cattleman and the Double Action are both Colt's (1873 Single Action Army and 1892 A&N Revolvers).  Have to remember - the revolvers of the 1850's and early 1860's were still mostly cap and ball percussion guns and not the cartridge firing revolvers we see a couple decades later.  Have you ever tried reloading these suckers?  Pain in the balls - f*ck that noise.  

You say "It's a western"...but the 1873 was the most popular revolver of it's time and is one of the hallmark guns in Americana.  Along with the Winchester 1866, they are essentially the "Guns That Won the West".

If anything, because of the larger Southern influence in the game, and the presence of the Lemoyne Raiders, I'm surprised they didn't try to throw in some Griswolds (but then again, cap and ball...f*ck that noise).

 

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Ironside
17 minutes ago, DarksunDaFirst said:

It's 1899 - the Cattleman and the Double Action are both Colt's (1873 Single Action Army and 1892 A&N Revolvers).  Have to remember - the revolvers of the 1850's and early 1860's were still mostly cap and ball percussion guns and not the cartridge firing revolvers we see a couple decades later.  Have you ever tried reloading these suckers?  Pain in the balls - f*ck that noise.  

You say "It's a western"...but the 1873 was the most popular revolver of it's time and is one of the hallmark guns in Americana.  Along with the Winchester 1866, they are essentially the "Guns That Won the West".

If anything, because of the larger Southern influence in the game, and the presence of the Lemoyne Raiders, I'm surprised they didn't try to throw in some Griswolds (but then again, cap and ball...f*ck that noise).

 

But there are many old style western revolvers that even as early as the 1870s was converted to metal cartridges. And with all the unrealistic things already in game and many of them regarding weapons, like the Volcanic gun being good... I would not object to some cool Colt Army/Navy, Remington’s, Griswold and Gunnison, more Smith and Wesson and a ton of more iconic revolvers. They would not even need to be that different in the stats since the stats as it is in Single Player do not count for much anyway, but the different looks of the revolvers would do a hell of a lot for immersion. 

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Cutter De Blanc

-New Austin unlocks after the mission "A Fork In the Road"

 

-Online more in line with the original game and less like GTAV's online model, and less focus in that area overall

 

-Time passes at a consistent rate

 

 

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~INDIO~
1 hour ago, DarksunDaFirst said:

It's 1899 - the Cattleman and the Double Action are both Colt's (1873 Single Action Army and 1892 A&N Revolvers).  Have to remember - the revolvers of the 1850's and early 1860's were still mostly cap and ball percussion guns and not the cartridge firing revolvers we see a couple decades later.  Have you ever tried reloading these suckers?  Pain in the balls - f*ck that noise.  

You say "It's a western"...but the 1873 was the most popular revolver of it's time and is one of the hallmark guns in Americana.  Along with the Winchester 1866, they are essentially the "Guns That Won the West".

If anything, because of the larger Southern influence in the game, and the presence of the Lemoyne Raiders, I'm surprised they didn't try to throw in some Griswolds (but then again, cap and ball...f*ck that noise).

 

There were cartridge conversions for the Colt Navy 1851 as well as many others.

They could add Cap and ball guns anyway, doesn't mean they have to make the reloads 100% accurate timing wise, It's a game.

A western game...😃

 

I know it was the most popular revolver... and what? Does that mean they should only add the SAA in future games, and forget everything else?

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Ironside
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ~INDIO~ said:

There were cartridge conversions for the Colt Navy 1851 as well as many others.

They could add Cap and ball guns anyway, doesn't mean they have to make the reloads 100% accurate timing wise, It's a game.

A western game...😃

 

I know it was the most popular revolver... and what? Does that mean they should only add the SAA in future games, and forget everything else?

And as I understand it, this game is hugely popular not only among the normal crowd but in particular with the already western theme loving people. And as such a few iconic guns from the wilder part of the Wild West would not be that difficult for R* to implement but everything to gain in for on goodwill and even more crowds chanting R* almost religiously. One have to understand that there are tons of games out there with modern weapons in any size and form, from a Colt 1911 to thermonuclear devices. We as western enthusiasts have one game that really caters to us and that game is of course RDR2(and RDR1), so it is not strange when we want some variety to our guns. I would love to free roam and role play by my self being somewhat like Cullen Bohannon while blazing though the maps with my battle proved but otherwise inferior Griswold and Gunnison. 

 

Even Wild Bill Hickok had two Colt Navy’s when he died and they where his weapon of choice, despite a whole lot of smoke and cap and ball. 

 

And as you said, the reloading system could just be that all reloading goes with that one changes the entire drum of bullets/cap an balls. The downside if it needs one could be that if you reload before using all ammo all ready loaded, the remaining non fired ammo would be lost. 

 

In any case, I agree with you totally and wanted to expand a little on the same subject. 

 

And to all that reads my walls of text, I am not a native English speaker and definitely speaks better than I write so I hope you all real cowboys/cowgirls and others from what once where the British Empire, can understand what I write and say in my way too long texts.

 

Edited by Ironside

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Ironside
Posted (edited)

And how do I post picture on this forum?

Edited by Ironside

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~INDIO~
2 hours ago, Ironside said:

And as I understand it, this game is hugely popular not only among the normal crowd but in particular with the already western theme loving people. And as such a few iconic guns from the wilder part of the Wild West would not be that difficult for R* to implement but everything to gain in for on goodwill and even more crowds chanting R* almost religiously. One have to understand that there are tons of games out there with modern weapons in any size and form, from a Colt 1911 to thermonuclear devices. We as western enthusiasts have one game that really caters to us and that game is of course RDR2(and RDR1), so it is not strange when we want some variety to our guns. I would love to free roam and role play by my self being somewhat like Cullen Bohannon while blazing though the maps with my battle proved but otherwise inferior Griswold and Gunnison. 

 

Even Wild Bill Hickok had two Colt Navy’s when he died and they where his weapon of choice, despite a whole lot of smoke and cap and ball. 

 

And as you said, the reloading system could just be that all reloading goes with that one changes the entire drum of bullets/cap an balls. The downside if it needs one could be that if you reload before using all ammo all ready loaded, the remaining non fired ammo would be lost. 

 

In any case, I agree with you totally and wanted to expand a little on the same subject. 

 

And to all that reads my walls of text, I am not a native English speaker and definitely speaks better than I write so I hope you all real cowboys/cowgirls and others from what once where the British Empire, can understand what I write and say in my way too long texts.

 

You write really well.

Better than me, probably!

I totally agree about all the modern games and the lack of good western games.

I don't think we're asking too much to have more variety in the revolvers at all.

There are more than enough games with modern weapons out there already.. Hopefully it's something Rockstar are working on. 

Also, I recently checked out the RDR Online Lemat revolver on youtube and it sounds exactly the same as the Schofield...

Not a fan of the re-using of sound effects for different guns

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Jimbatron

I love the game but everything can be improved. My top 3 changes:

 

1) Remove the horse autoavoid system. The number of times it locks me out of the controls and causes a collision that was otherwise avoidable is ridiculous.

2) Tweak the wanted system so acts of self defence don’t land you in trouble.

3) Ability to get all challenges an unlocks before the epilogue without glitching (number of ways this could be done but will keep post spoiler free)

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Ironside
9 hours ago, ~INDIO~ said:

You write really well.

Better than me, probably!

I totally agree about all the modern games and the lack of good western games.

I don't think we're asking too much to have more variety in the revolvers at all.

There are more than enough games with modern weapons out there already.. Hopefully it's something Rockstar are working on. 

Also, I recently checked out the RDR Online Lemat revolver on youtube and it sounds exactly the same as the Schofield...

Not a fan of the re-using of sound effects for different guns

I am sad to hear that they are re-using sound effects for weapons, it really is the lazy route. But I would rather have the LeMat in single player with the re-used sound compared to now. Everyone keeps on saying there are so many weapons in RDR2 when most are just the same gun with a slightly different skin. So some old iconic western revolvers like the ones we talked about is sorely needed as this is the one and only AAA western game out there for us that love the era. I do hope that the next game whenever it is released, will take place during the great expansion westwards a few years after the civil war. Early 1870s or a middle 1870s would be great. At that era we still have the great railroad companies at each other’s throats, Indian wars, conflict over cattle, gold mining companies vs the lonely miners, and most important a truly Wild West!

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~INDIO~
8 minutes ago, Ironside said:

I am sad to hear that they are re-using sound effects for weapons, it really is the lazy route. But I would rather have the LeMat in single player with the re-used sound compared to now. Everyone keeps on saying there are so many weapons in RDR2 when most are just the same gun with a slightly different skin. So some old iconic western revolvers like the ones we talked about is sorely needed as this is the one and only AAA western game out there for us that love the era. I do hope that the next game whenever it is released, will take place during the great expansion westwards a few years after the civil war. Early 1870s or a middle 1870s would be great. At that era we still have the great railroad companies at each other’s throats, Indian wars, conflict over cattle, gold mining companies vs the lonely miners, and most important a truly Wild West!

Yeah it's kind of a shame, you expect more from them really.

It would be good if they'd release them for single player, or even let us buy them as DLC.

There aren't that many weapons, there were more in RDR1 and definitely more in Red Dead Revolver (that game had a great variety).

They seem to be going backwards in this area when it comes to less and less weapons.

You're right it is the only AAA western, maybe one day some other company will come along and give Rockstar some competition!

 

That sounds perfect to me for the next game, it'd be great to see the real wild west further back in time.

Imagine how great it would look in another 8 years, especially if they leave out a city like Saint Denis and focus on smaller towns more.

We have a longgg wait though unfortunately!

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SneakyDeaky

Big spoilers.

 

1. Have New Austin open from Chapter 2, or at least whenever it originally was meant to unlock. (There's dialogue there for Arthur before and after he gets sick, so it was at least supposed to be unlocked before Guarma.)

I want to finish the collectibles I started in chapter 2, thank you. Oh, and the trapper outfits. And the challenges. Really, having NA locked for Arthur is one big pain in the ass.

 

2. A town up in the Grizzlies. With no trapper up there, it's a chore to go hunting in the Grizzlies. And there's nowhere to buy or trade supplies. I think there should have at least been a store and a trapper at the Wapiti Indian Reservation. Perhaps a unique Indian trapper with unique outfits and supplies. I miss how in RDR 1, most of the towns had a unique weapon, or items, you could buy. And pelts had different value based on the location. I think I would travel a lot more from town to town if they all had something unique to trade. 

3. A New-Game Plus. Or a Hardcore mode? Or both. As it's now taking me until Chapter 6 to pretty much unlock everything, I feel like my time with a peak Arthur, with all the gear I want, is so limited that I lose all interest in all the equipment and outfits once he gets sick. I don't want to wear or use any of that stuff in the Epilogue, I spent 6 chapters unlocking it all for ARTHUR and not John. John should have his own unique equipment and collectibles.

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Ironside
5 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Big spoilers.

 

1. Have New Austin open from Chapter 2, or at least whenever it originally was meant to unlock. (There's dialogue there for Arthur before and after he gets sick, so it was at least supposed to be unlocked before Guarma.)

I want to finish the collectibles I started in chapter 2, thank you. Oh, and the trapper outfits. And the challenges. Really, having NA locked for Arthur is one big pain in the ass.

 

2. A town up in the Grizzlies. With no trapper up there, it's a chore to go hunting in the Grizzlies. And there's nowhere to buy or trade supplies. I think there should have at least been a store and a trapper at the Wapiti Indian Reservation. Perhaps a unique Indian trapper with unique outfits and supplies. I miss how in RDR 1, most of the towns had a unique weapon, or items, you could buy. And pelts had different value based on the location. I think I would travel a lot more from town to town if they all had something unique to trade. 

3. A New-Game Plus. Or a Hardcore mode? Or both. As it's now taking me until Chapter 6 to pretty much unlock everything, I feel like my time with a peak Arthur, with all the gear I want, is so limited that I lose all interest in all the equipment and outfits once he gets sick. I don't want to wear or use any of that stuff in the Epilogue, I spent 6 chapters unlocking it all for ARTHUR and not John. John should have his own unique equipment and collectibles.

Agree with all you say, especially the “New Game +” part since it is more or less a given in every other AAA release nowadays. And it would make the game so much more fun to replay since as you said, we would get more quality time with Arthur at his peak and his bag full of weapons that we otherwise can just use for a few missions. And I am certain someone will mention how unbalanced it would be to let Arthur have all those fancy shotguns and rifles from the start but it really is not, all weapons in this game is more for flavoring than effectiveness since one can go through the entire game and use the cattleman 99% of the time. 

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SneakyDeaky
1 hour ago, Ironside said:

And I am certain someone will mention how unbalanced it would be to let Arthur have all those fancy shotguns and rifles from the start but it really is not, all weapons in this game is more for flavoring than effectiveness since one can go through the entire game and use the cattleman 99% of the time. 

I agree completely about the weapons. When I change my weapons it's 85% for its looks and sound, 15% because it has more damage or more accuracy. That's why reusing the same sound effects is a big turn off.

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RedDeadJohn

Yesterday i did my first entry in New Austin as Arthur it felt amazing i wish the game started there.

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GinsengElixir
46 minutes ago, RedDeadJohn said:

Yesterday i did my first entry in New Austin as Arthur it felt amazing i wish the game started there.

Maybe that's where they could've fled after Blackwater, camping out in Pikes Basin 😍 

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SonOfLiberty

-Use RDR's fast travel options. This is one of those things that make me scratch my head about the game. I miss being able to fast travel from temporary camps. The new system is kinda sh*t to be honest and I rarely use it since the logic is f*cked up. Can only fast travel one way, but not the other way. 

 

-Tie things like being using the right clothing in weather conditions actually mean something. I mean if you're in the snow and wear a shirt for example you shouldn't just get a message saying you're cold and it only affects your cores. I've always felt this part was really underdone and not expanded enough to the point it really doesn't matter. If it were me I'd make it so if in that situation you risk getting sick or something so you have to think about the consequences a bit more because too me in its current state it's mostly cosmetic and doesn't matter very much.

 

-Being able to ride with other gang members in free roam. Like calling for Dwayne's goons in GTA IV or recruiting gang members in San Andreas. I enjoy the mini missions we do with various gang members like robbing homesteads, but I was a bit disappointed that this aspect wasn't included as I think it would be cool if you're just messing around to have the option to have the others come with you. 

 

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DarksunDaFirst
On 6/28/2019 at 2:58 PM, Ironside said:

But there are many old style western revolvers that even as early as the 1870s was converted to metal cartridges. And with all the unrealistic things already in game and many of them regarding weapons, like the Volcanic gun being good... I would not object to some cool Colt Army/Navy, Remington’s, Griswold and Gunnison, more Smith and Wesson and a ton of more iconic revolvers. They would not even need to be that different in the stats since the stats as it is in Single Player do not count for much anyway, but the different looks of the revolvers would do a hell of a lot for immersion. 

yes, they were conversions...but that's also why we saw the new versions also be made around that time because that's when the tech became widely known about and used.  

I understand the call for such a gun, I mean sh*t we have a musket in GTA V for fun.  I'm all for adding new guns to RDR2 - but if we're going to get specialty weapons (which is what I would consider cap and ball to be...faster to reload those things by swapping out a preloaded cylinder), let's get some more of the "modern" weapons that fit the timeframe.  By the late 1890's almost nobody used cap and ball.  Speaking of conversions...they did that already in the game.  Without looking which gun was converted?  It's my personal favorite.

There are sooooo many more weapons that would be more easily feasible and make more sense to add now than going into a specialty weapon just yet...it's 1899.  Let's see a S&W Model 10.  A Nagant M1895.  Increase variety before going out and adding specialty guns that are already so similar to ones already in the game.

 

On 6/28/2019 at 3:49 PM, ~INDIO~ said:

There were cartridge conversions for the Colt Navy 1851 as well as many others.

They could add Cap and ball guns anyway, doesn't mean they have to make the reloads 100% accurate timing wise, It's a game.

A western game...😃

 

I know it was the most popular revolver... and what? Does that mean they should only add the SAA in future games, and forget everything else?

No..because DAA was also available :p 

I get what you're saying.  Read above.

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