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AnimalFather

Non of your actions impacted the world

Recommended Posts

iddqdvie
On 6/9/2019 at 9:32 PM, Vinewood Villain said:

Rockstar makes so many claims as to redefining open world gaming every time they release a new game. The truth is, RDR2 hardly feels any more "alive" than even GTA IV. They simply have a state-of-the-art physics engine and an unrestrained obsession to (mostly useless) detail. Combined with high production values, they have a game that's stunning to look at but not very fun to play. 

 

exactly. the missions become less "free" with every new game. like going from lego to playmobil. might look cool but its all premade sh*t.    The game is called OUTLAWs 4 LIFE and yet you have to obey the mission in every way.  dont raise any suspicion. don't do this, don't do that.

 

The very best mission rockstar ever created was in GTA:Liberty City:  When you visit the main (middle island) first time in a mission, you are in that condo and she says, just go for a joyride through the city, i have some work later on. That was one of those moments!

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O.Z
2 minutes ago, iddqdvie said:

 

exactly. the missions become less "free" with every new game. like going from lego to playmobil. might look cool but its all premade sh*t.    The game is called OUTLAWs 4 LIFE and yet you have to obey the mission in every way.  dont raise any suspicion. don't do this, don't do that.

Couldn’t agree more. Well said.

The missions have been more and more on-rails ever since GTA V. 

 

Story wise, GTA IV is still the king, easily. 

 

Luckily for me, I don’t really care about the game’s story, never have, all I want is the best and an atmospheric sandbox experience when free roaming and Rockstar delivered. 

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Jabalous
Posted (edited)

To tell the truth, R* never claimed that their mission design is open-ended or that there are multiple ways to finish tasks. Not in Red Dead or GTA. It's clear that they usually focus on making and marketing the presentation and the cinematic value of their worlds. They're more concerned about how consistent the world looks, how the objects in the distance look and how believable their shadows cast, how the animations blend well and look consistent as in real life, and of course voice acting and dialogue. Mission design is rarely marketed or talked about in their interviews. Unless they take an initiative and talk about it, do not come to a GTA or Red Dead game expecting anything more than a linear mission design that's heavily scripted, with some freedom here and there, to provide a believable context for the story. 

 

I like R*'s games for what they're as I simply play them for the presentation and cinematic value. If I want to experience a game with multiple options to finish tasks, I'd play Htiman. 

Edited by Jabalous

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Oldsport

yes rdr2 is so linear, its hard for me to do more playthroughs. the ending is always the same. nothing changes, atleast in gta5 something changed at the end.

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0223998743
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Jabalous said:

To tell the truth, R* never claimed that their mission design is open-ended or that there are multiple ways to finish tasks. Not in Red Dead or GTA. It's clear that they usually focus on making and marketing the presentation and the cinematic value of their worlds. They're more concerned about how consistent the world looks, how the objects in the distance look and how believable their shadows cast, how the animations blend well and look consistent as in real life, and of course voice acting and dialogue. Mission design is rarely marketed or talked about in their interviews. Unless they take an initiative and talk about it, do not come to a GTA or Red Dead game expecting anything more than a linear mission design that's heavily scripted, with some freedom here and there, to provide a believable context for the story. 

 

I like R*'s games for what they're as I simply play them for the presentation and cinematic value. If I want to experience a game with multiple options to finish tasks, I'd play Htiman. 

Well except that previous game like GTA III and GTA IV had actual freedom in the missions.

Edited by 0223998743

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O.Z
3 hours ago, Oldsport said:

yes rdr2 is so linear, its hard for me to do more playthroughs. the ending is always the same. nothing changes, atleast in gta5 something changed at the end.

And not only that, but the story itself is boring, not to mention the linear missions like you said. That’s the reason I have only completed the story once, and I don’t intend to have a second playthrough anytime soon...

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iddqdvie

GTA IV has the best story because back than they didnt tailor the game for casuals. (casuals are gamers that play many games but never stick to one for long) You started with nothing, no money, no weapons and everything built up slowly. i loved that! They totally scrapped that with gtaV. i rather played GTA:online with crappy storytelling but slow progression and focus on ONE character!

 

Less is more!  RDR2 is only fun if you are broke and have no money for anything!

 

Thinking about it again, GTA:Online has the best Missions! They are as simple as possible and yet allow you to do them anyway you want (kind of)

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GinsengElixir

Unfortunately RDR2 story was a bit 'Hollywood'. RDR had a darkness, maturity and subtlety to it in the same way GTAIV also possessed, and RDR2 did not imo. RDR2 got all heroic, whereas RDR was brutal and honest.

 

The thing that saved RDR2 for me was Arthur Morgan. He was a pleasure to spend all those hours with. I didn't care for anyone in the gang except for Hosea, and the epilogue with John was for me unnecessary. Which is probably why I never bothered finishing it. Ultimately Rdr2 was a mixed bag for me. 

 

Ah that's it, I'm going to play GTAIV again. 

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MrPhillips

Good thing these RDR 2 haters are minority. Go play your GTA IV and stop bashing one of the greatest game ever made.

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GinsengElixir
34 minutes ago, MrPhillips said:

Good thing these RDR 2 haters are minority. Go play your GTA IV and stop bashing one of the greatest game ever made.

Cry me a river.

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El Penguin Bobo

Jesus, what's up with all the hate for RDR2? Is this going to end up like GTA V again? 

 

I've never played any RDR game, and from the looks of it, the sequel looks very fresh and great. I'm assuming that it improved GTA V's or the first RDR's elements.

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t-p-d-a

All my gangmembers are nice to me after i fully upgraded the camp with stuff and pelts. So.... it has impact

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O.Z
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, El Penguin Bobo said:

Jesus, what's up with all the hate for RDR2? Is this going to end up like GTA V again? 

 

I've never played any RDR game, and from the looks of it, the sequel looks very fresh and great. I'm assuming that it improved GTA V's or the first RDR's elements.

Never assume anything... 

 

Anyways, the story ain’t as good or as matured as in RDR. Because Rockstar chose to go with GTA V’s Hollywood over the top style writing.

 

However, the sandbox itself and the gameplay is improved a lot and it makes RDR and GTA V feel like arcade games in comparison. 
The magnificent gun sounds, the atmosphere, wild animals, the core/violence, blowing peoples heads off(never gets old) is second to none. All in all it’s a masterpiece and 10/10 for me.

RDR2 goes down in history as the best Rockstar game ever made along with the cult classic GTA IV. 

Edited by O.Z

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Smokewood
On 6/12/2019 at 3:07 AM, iddqdvie said:

GTA IV has the best story because back than they didnt tailor the game for casuals. (casuals are gamers that play many games but never stick to one for long) You started with nothing, no money, no weapons and everything built up slowly. i loved that! They totally scrapped that with gtaV. i rather played GTA:online with crappy storytelling but slow progression and focus on ONE character!

 

Less is more!  RDR2 is only fun if you are broke and have no money for anything!

 

Thinking about it again, GTA:Online has the best Missions! They are as simple as possible and yet allow you to do them anyway you want (kind of)

I really wish they would remaster gta 4, I've never played it....

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O.Z
8 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

I really wish they would remaster gta 4, I've never played it....

Really? How come? It’s one of the greatest games ever created and the best GTA to date

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Smokewood
11 minutes ago, O.Z said:

Really? How come? It’s one of the greatest games ever created and the best GTA to date

I got away from gaming when my PC melted and took a very long break.

I came back when the xbox 1S was released and a friend of mine was really into GTAO.

I had never played a GTA game before so I picked up GTA V bundled with a shark card and stared in March of 2017.

Got RDR2 because I like GTA 5 so much.

I want to play IV just haven't bought it, would love to see it remastered....

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GinsengElixir

GTAIV might be difficult for a newcomer to get into if you've already played alot of GTAV and Rdr2...just because it is dated.

 

However I last played 3 yrs ago and it was still awesome.

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MrPhillips
21 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

Cry me a river.

You are the ones crying about great game and pulling out some crazy things that most games actually don't have because many reasons. You are expecting game to remember every sh*t you changed from default. Maybe they could add something like "crime scene do not cross this line" or similar, but ignoring all great things in RDR 2 and putting this little nonsense above all, is just the act of person who is nostalgic and hates new games, whether they are good or bad.

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GinsengElixir
1 hour ago, MrPhillips said:

You are the ones crying about great game and pulling out some crazy things that most games actually don't have because many reasons. You are expecting game to remember every sh*t you changed from default. Maybe they could add something like "crime scene do not cross this line" or similar, but ignoring all great things in RDR 2 and putting this little nonsense above all, is just the act of person who is nostalgic and hates new games, whether they are good or bad.

Actually it's pretty much one person in this thread who thinks that about impact of actions on world. Try reading fanboy. 

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MrPhillips
37 minutes ago, GinsengElixir said:

Actually it's pretty much one person in this thread who thinks that about impact of actions on world. Try reading fanboy. 

Fanboy lol...

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Crokey

PSA: Less personal back and forth and more discussion about the topic, which I see is about RDR2, apparently.

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Auditore

I dont get the complaints about mission design when the thread is about your influence in the world.

Now about the threadbi dont really understand the complaint,the game lets you do as much as you can without taking the fun of it.Killin the whole town till it gets empty is fun but then you will have to travel to another city to use the saloon.Or break the game if you kill every shoopkeeper.

A dev even said Rockstar held back on the sim elements because while burning a whole forest is fun it ruins the game after a while.

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Ironside
7 hours ago, Auditore said:

I dont get the complaints about mission design when the thread is about your influence in the world.

Now about the threadbi dont really understand the complaint,the game lets you do as much as you can without taking the fun of it.Killin the whole town till it gets empty is fun but then you will have to travel to another city to use the saloon.Or break the game if you kill every shoopkeeper.

A dev even said Rockstar held back on the sim elements because while burning a whole forest is fun it ruins the game after a while.

But it would be cool if the city or Forrest was burned/destroyed for a set amount of time. I understand that the game would be pretty awful if it was possible to accidentally burn down every swath of green permanently in the entire world. But once again, destroying or letting things be burned for a set amount of time would be great. 

 

I would also also like some kind of gang dynamic between the different gang factions represented in the game. From the O’driscolls to the Murphy brood, Lemoyne Raiders etc. It would be awesome if the players aggression against one gang would strengthen the others and if the player did not “clean” one area of the map often enough it would slowly be overrun with criminality and bushwhacking. To me as a player that enjoys playing the game as a sandbox after the main story is finished, things like that would vastly improve the game and would enforce the illusion that our choices actually matter. 

 

All in all R* missed out on a lot of gameplay possibilities in regards to how we as players could impact the world and because of that the endgame suffers immensely since there are no infinite bounties nor open world possibilities to robb a bank or anything like that. 

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Cyper

Our actions has no impact on the world.... compared to what?

 

If you rob any store, it will be temporary shut down.

 

If you beat the owner, you will see him with bruises all over his face the next day.

 

If you kill an NPC a relative to the NPC may take revenge on you.

 

Get a bounty in a town and people will remember it even after you've cleared the bounty.

 

There is both technical limits and gameplay-based limits. If the consequences of your actions is set too high it would be possible to ruin a saved game either by mistake or regret. Now, i'm not saying that there is room for improvements in how the world reacts to your actions, but really, what exactly are you looking for OP?

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The Odyssey
Posted (edited)

Trust me I don't think this game is flawless but there comes a point where you have to look at your criticism and really think logically if fixing it it would benefit the game in the long run. I mean not only is there so much a studio can do with an open world, but how you can tell me that you should be able to blow up half of San Denis and have it stay have destroyed for the rest of the game? What, so it just never gets rebuilt? How is that immersive

Also if you rob stores they close for like a day... as they would in real life. Should they be closed for weeks on end so you can't shop at the nearest town? 

 

The truth is you really need to take a moment to appreciate the thriving open world in Red Dead, obviously if you're rushing through everything its gonna feel lifeless, but if you slow down and take in the minute details  you'll find plenty of interaction. Just look at the examples from the post above mine. 

On 6/13/2019 at 9:17 PM, O.Z said:

 

Anyways, the story ain’t as good or as matured as in RDR. Because Rockstar chose to go with GTA V’s Hollywood over the top style writing.

 

I'm sorry but how does the sh*theap that is V's story come even close to RDR2's story, did we play the same game? This game felt more grounded in reality than IV which is saying something. Though I can understand why you'd prefer the OG Red Deads story. 

Edited by The Odyssey

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O.Z
31 minutes ago, The Odyssey said:

I'm sorry but how does the sh*theap that is V's story come even close to RDR2's story, did we play the same game? This game felt more grounded in reality than IV which is saying something. Though I can understand why you'd prefer the OG Red Deads story. 

I'm talking about the Red Dead Redemption's story. 

GTA V's story was pure crap, one of the worst in the GTA series

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Auditore
18 hours ago, Ironside said:

But it would be cool if the city or Forrest was burned/destroyed for a set amount of time. I understand that the game would be pretty awful if it was possible to accidentally burn down every swath of green permanently in the entire world. But once again, destroying or letting things be burned for a set amount of time would be great. 

 

I would also also like some kind of gang dynamic between the different gang factions represented in the game. From the O’driscolls to the Murphy brood, Lemoyne Raiders etc. It would be awesome if the players aggression against one gang would strengthen the others and if the player did not “clean” one area of the map often enough it would slowly be overrun with criminality and bushwhacking. To me as a player that enjoys playing the game as a sandbox after the main story is finished, things like that would vastly improve the game and would enforce the illusion that our choices actually matter. 

 

All in all R* missed out on a lot of gameplay possibilities in regards to how we as players could impact the world and because of that the endgame suffers immensely since there are no infinite bounties nor open world possibilities to robb a bank or anything like that. 

Problem is that the game is supposed to have states in the map so the gangs are very spread apart.If every gang was in valentine then yeah that would be cool just like san andreas gang wars but the part about burning forests sounds cool but would get old in 5 minutes and having the forest be back in 1 hour would be a huge immersion breaker.But im sure there will be pc mods for that.I really get your argument about endgame content but i remember very well people listing gang wars as a negative in San Andreas so its not a clear cut issue.

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GinsengElixir
17 hours ago, Cyper said:

 

 

If you kill an NPC a relative to the NPC may take revenge on you.

 

Seriously??

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Mas u Sees
22 hours ago, Ironside said:

But it would be cool if the city or Forrest was burned/destroyed for a set amount of time. I understand that the game would be pretty awful if it was possible to accidentally burn down every swath of green permanently in the entire world. But once again, destroying or letting things be burned for a set amount of time would be great. 

 

I would also also like some kind of gang dynamic between the different gang factions represented in the game. From the O’driscolls to the Murphy brood, Lemoyne Raiders etc. It would be awesome if the players aggression against one gang would strengthen the others and if the player did not “clean” one area of the map often enough it would slowly be overrun with criminality and bushwhacking. To me as a player that enjoys playing the game as a sandbox after the main story is finished, things like that would vastly improve the game and would enforce the illusion that our choices actually matter. 

 

All in all R* missed out on a lot of gameplay possibilities in regards to how we as players could impact the world and because of that the endgame suffers immensely since there are no infinite bounties nor open world possibilities to robb a bank or anything like that. 

Most R* Games don’t really have a particularly in depth end game.

With RDRII it‘s as close as it can get with Marston having some stuff to do, and you can walk into Towns and see how the world has evovled(the House inside Valentine is now finished, the Appleseed Timber have mowed down the parts of the forest and moved away, in Saint Denis that memorial is finished) those are pretty damn good Interactions with the open world.

 

And god no, to the gang system, we had that in GTA San Andreas, and it was the absolute worst

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Ironside
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Mas u Sees said:

Most R* Games don’t really have a particularly in depth end game.

With RDRII it‘s as close as it can get with Marston having some stuff to do, and you can walk into Towns and see how the world has evovled(the House inside Valentine is now finished, the Appleseed Timber have mowed down the parts of the forest and moved away, in Saint Denis that memorial is finished) those are pretty damn good Interactions with the open world.

 

And god no, to the gang system, we had that in GTA San Andreas, and it was the absolute worst

I do not disagree with you but neither am I a blind fan that just heap praises over R* and their games. 

 

So at least being able to do infinite bounties and similar “quests” should not be a problem for R* and  it would really be rewarding to the true fans whom actually dare to give R* critique. 

 

And in regards to the gang system, I never said I wanted a copy-paste from San Andreas. One good way would be that attacks from the local gang would become more common if the player did not eradicate their camping spots often enough. So the more neglected a gang is will result in more activity from them. I never meant or said that the Lemoyne raiders should be able to conquer the map or anything like that. 

Edited by Ironside

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