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Smokewood

Thank you for online poker but can you....

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Hetraet

Wtf is it with people defending the rakes? It's unnecesary and used to reduce overall payouts, what if the poker is rigged also, every time I became a bully (50+chips) I started getting the worst cards possible (2&3,4&2,4&3) I think there's something shady behind the poker in this game, they want us to buy gold bars and probably found a way to monetize poker behind our backs - pushing us to buy mtx. Of course this is just a conspiracy theory but I can really see this be the case. Also the "taxes" and "bills" are in the game clearly just to take money from players to push them to bypass the grind by mtx. If this poker minigame wasn't meant to be monetized than it would be legal in all countries, it wouldn't be considered as gambling. This sh*t is really shady I'm tellin ya.

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RaigeGames
4 minutes ago, Hetraet said:

Wtf is it with people defending the rakes? It's unnecesary and used to reduce overall payouts, what if the poker is rigged also, every time I became a bully (50+chips) I started getting the worst cards possible (2&3,4&2,4&3) I think there's something shady behind the poker in this game, they want us to buy gold bars and probably found a way to monetize poker behind our backs - pushing us to buy mtx. Of course this is just a conspiracy theory but I can really see this be the case. Also the "taxes" and "bills" are in the game clearly just to take money from players to push them to bypass the grind by mtx. If this poker minigame wasn't meant to be monetized than it would be legal in all countries, it wouldn't be considered as gambling. This sh*t is really shady I'm tellin ya.

I wasn't defending the rake, just simply trying to explain the reasoning for it being in the game. It's no different here in RDO than it is in GTA where characters take "cuts" out of our earnings for bullsh*t reasons. It's something I've unfortunately gotten used to and expected, so taking a 5% rake really doesn't surprise me. 

 

Personally, I don't think poker is being used to push mtx simply for the fact that they are two different currencies. If I lose all my money in poker I'm not going to get frustrated and buy gold bars as a result, I'm going to hunt/do missions to earn my cash back. I can't buy everything with gold bars that I can with cash so there's no push to buy gold bars in that respect. However this is just my opinion and how I personally see it, others may think different 

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Smokewood

How did this become about rake?

Forget rake...

 

If there is an empty seat, someone should be able to sit down.

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RaigeGames
1 minute ago, Smokewood said:

If there is an empty seat, someone should be able to sit down.

Agreed. I'd get bored if it was just me and one other player trying to outlast the other

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Red Lynx 23

Yes, eff the rake. Why didn't my character just demonstrate that a pair of Revolvers beats a rake, and demand the full 10.40? 

 

D6tpovAXkAAaRuP.jpg

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Hetraet
1 minute ago, Smokewood said:

How did this become about rake?

Forget rake...

 

If there is an empty seat, someone should be able to sit down.

I prefer tournaments and these are not in the game. Tournaments are way less about luck, it's about your tactic and getting to see through each one of your oponents. For example for me poker can be won by busting all the players, this is impossible cuz when I bust someone, some simpleton will sit down betting max bets without any tactic. If you know how poker in rdr 1 mp works then you get my vision of poker. In rdr 1 you had to matchmake for a lobby to start one and no new people could come sit to the table until either everyone left or someone busted everyone, that's true poker for me. The way poker works rn is scummy and mainly about luck.

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Chrismads

Can you leave every time you want with your remaining chips in a tournament?

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Hetraet
1 minute ago, Chrismads said:

Can you leave every time you want with your remaining chips in a tournament?

Yep that's the only thing keeping me invested, already made about 100 dollars from winnings. It's super slow and easy though. Just wait for a good hand and then bet all in. Most of the players are too dumb to get even this easy to look through tactic. It's sometimes fun though when someone who knows how to play poker has a "stand-off" with me...mainly when it's about who can bluff better, that's what poker is about

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Chrismads
5 minutes ago, Hetraet said:

Yep that's the only thing keeping me invested, already made about 100 dollars from winnings. It's super slow and easy though. Just wait for a good hand and then bet all in. Most of the players are too dumb to get even this easy to look through tactic. It's sometimes fun though when someone who knows how to play poker has a "stand-off" with me...mainly when it's about who can bluff better, that's what poker is about

In a tournament. Not the game right now. I mean when I've been playing poker, it has always been to the death. But normally in a tournament ppl can leave with their chips any time they want right?

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Hetraet
12 minutes ago, Chrismads said:

In a tournament. Not the game right now. I mean when I've been playing poker, it has always been to the death. But normally in a tournament ppl can leave with their chips any time they want right?

It depends

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Smokewood
40 minutes ago, Hetraet said:

I prefer tournaments and these are not in the game. Tournaments are way less about luck, it's about your tactic and getting to see through each one of your oponents. For example for me poker can be won by busting all the players, this is impossible cuz when I bust someone, some simpleton will sit down betting max bets without any tactic. If you know how poker in rdr 1 mp works then you get my vision of poker. In rdr 1 you had to matchmake for a lobby to start one and no new people could come sit to the table until either everyone left or someone busted everyone, that's true poker for me. The way poker works rn is scummy and mainly about luck.

I disagree, cash games are much more about skill, especially post flop.

 

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Hetraet
2 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

I disagree, cash games are much more about skill, especially post flop.

 

Well, that's your opinion. From my experience it just doesn't work. How is that, that I keep winning tournaments (GOP3, Rdr 1, real life) but see complete newbies during the cashgame win the pot despite knowing absolute sh*t about poker?

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RaigeGames
46 minutes ago, Chrismads said:

Can you leave every time you want with your remaining chips in a tournament?

In a tournament I'd say typically no. It's usually an all or nothing deal.

 

I do like the system now for the fact that I can come and go as I please with whatever money I have, I wouldn't want it to be an all or nothing deal every single time. That be a sure fire way for me to lose all my money lol

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Smokewood
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Hetraet said:

Well, that's your opinion. From my experience it just doesn't work. How is that, that I keep winning tournaments (GOP3, Rdr 1, real life) but see complete newbies during the cashgame win the pot despite knowing absolute sh*t about poker?

Well it's an opinion shared by the poker community in general to be honest. Deep stacked cash games have much lower variance than MTTs or sit n goes...that's just a fact. Lower variance means lower luck involved...

 

BTW, they know enough about poker to know that you will call an all-in bet without the nuts.... are you sure you've won a poker tournament before?

Edited by Smokewood

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Chrismads
14 minutes ago, RaigeGames said:

I do like the system now for the fact that I can come and go as I please with whatever money I have, I wouldn't want it to be an all or nothing deal every single time. That be a sure fire way for me to lose all my money lol

I also like that I can leave as I please.

As you said, I could imagine that when it becomes 1 vs 1 it would be a real drag.

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Hetraet
4 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Well it's an opinion shared by the poker community in general to be honest. Deep stacked cash games have much lower variance than MTTs or sit n goes...that's just a fact. Lower variance means lower luck involved...

That just doesn't make any sense. MTTs and sit n goes have much less variance than cashgames. Cashgames have new people coming all the time = more variance = more luck oriented

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Smokewood
1 minute ago, Hetraet said:

That just doesn't make any sense. MTTs and sit n goes have much less variance than cashgames. Cashgames have new people coming all the time = more variance = more luck oriented

That's not what variance means.

Variance is when you get it in with the best hand and still lose. Like you go all in with AA pre-flop against QQ. At that point you are a 82% favorite to win, however if he hits another Q you lose. When you lose there, that's variance. 

https://www.pokerlistings.com/variance-and-poker-pt-1-how-good-cash-game-players-outrun-luck

https://upswingpoker.com/cash-games-vs-tournaments-strategy-comparison/

 

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pete_95973
7 hours ago, Hetraet said:

That just doesn't make any sense. MTTs and sit n goes have much less variance than cashgames. Cashgames have new people coming all the time = more variance = more luck oriented

You’ve been wrong so many times in this thread 

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Chrismads
1 hour ago, pete_95973 said:

You’ve been wrong so many times in this thread 

With what?

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trevorjc2511
11 hours ago, Chrismads said:

In a tournament. Not the game right now. I mean when I've been playing poker, it has always been to the death. But normally in a tournament ppl can leave with their chips any time they want right?

IRL?  No not in my experience, in a tournament you pay the entrance fee and get a certain amount of chips, the blinds increase at a set interval to force people to play until there is one player left. It's not usually winner takes all, depending on the amount of players you can get paid for going "deep" in the tournament or if its a table of ten probable the top 3 get paid.  But we don't have a tournament in RDO its a cash game where players can come go as they please taking whatever chips they have which is just like a real life casino and online poker sites.

 

A tournament in RDO would be cool though, maybe a high stakes one on the river boat with a high buy in and multiple tables in action, and no stupid max bet per round.    

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-LN-
Posted (edited)

Cash games and tournaments have very different strategies from one another; an excellent tournament player is not always a great cash game player and vice versa. See Phil Hellmuth as example; he excels at tournament play, but is just very average at best with cash games. It doesn't mean that he's a bad overall player, just that he's more comfortable with the strategy involved in tournaments.

 

Tournaments are more about survival than accumulating the most chips; essentially every hand that you play must count and there is little room for error. Sure, in the beginning stages when blinds are cheap, you may feel more inclined to see a few flops, but when the blinds start going up, you really have to rely on your position, reading the other opponents well, taking note of how many chips everyone has left (including yourself), and when and where you can make your moves in order to stay alive. It's naturally a faster pace game and you can't just sit back for hours and hours and wait on pocket Aces or Kings; you have to make moves and you have to know exactly when to play your hand and why. The goal is not necessarily to bust all of the other players, but rather to last longer than them by choosing your moves carefully until you've made it past the bubble and into the final positions which pay. You have to learn when to play tight, when to bluff when needed, and exactly whether or not the person(s) in the hand against you would risk their tournament life with the cards they're holding.

 

Cash games on the other hand are more about patience and long-term profits. In these games, you still have to know the proper way to play position and read other players, but it's more flexible in that you can easily sit back for long periods of time, only play premium hands within position, and grind out a profit over time; you can also easily leave when things aren't going your way and avoid certain types of players entirely if you wish. Now, you also have to consider that if the stakes aren't that high in a cash game, it's nothing for some people to chase anything and everything all the time down to the very end hoping to get lucky or call huge bets and raises no matter what they're holding because if they win, they can win big and hurt the ones who truly know the game, but if they lose, they can easily just brush it off as "bad luck", which is actually "bad play" on their part, and re-buy for the next hand and do it again.

 

Of course, the people who chase and call don't understand the game will generally end up losing so much more in the long run and  the solid players will generally come out ahead provided they do not let their emotions get in the way, go on tilt, and try to chase what they've lost by playing too many hands and making all the wrong moves, but again, these are two very different variants of essentially the same games, both with unique strategies and approaches, but there are a lot of things to consider when deciding which suits your playing style and whether the game will be more about luck or skill.

 

Remember, in a tournament, there are no second chances unless it's one of those god-awful types that have a period where you're allotted a certain amount of times (usually once or twice) to re-buy if you bust before the blinds reach a certain amount, but in general you've only got one shot and if you bust; too bad, so sad!

 

I personally enjoy tournaments more, but I have experience with both types of games. Cash games are good for building your bankroll if you have the time and patience to stick with it. Placing high within a tournament will often generate a nice payout right then and there, but you've really got to know what you're doing and be constantly focused on the entire game at all times. Sorry for the long-windedness; I was taught at a very young age how to play most variants of poker and it's something that has always stuck with me. :p

Edited by -LN-

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Hetraet

@-LN- Thanks for putting my thoughts into a text, you could make a journalist one day 

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Pressure Drop
Posted (edited)

A lot of you in this thread are getting WAYYYY too deep into this.


They have added online poker, which has been requested for a long time. I can't believe people are getting mad over a 5% rake, or that you can't go "all-in" - Just forget about it my dudes. Last night I sat down with my $25 dollar buy-in and when I left the table an hour later I had $90. Do you really think I care if 5% of that disappears? Do you think I care if I lose every single hand and my $25 buy in? No, I don't care. Because they added POKER, and it is working just fine.

 

If you can't afford the 5% rake or even to lose $25 then I suggest looking up a guide for making money in the game, because you are doing it wrong. And why does it matter that you can't go all-in? You would just end up crying to Rockstar that you blew all your money and lost it on poker? It is better how it is, with the max bet IMO. And even with the max bet you can still make decent money if everyone goes to max bet with you.

 

Just enjoy the goddamn poker !

Edited by Pressure Drop

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Lonely-Martin
Posted (edited)

As the post above, I just enjoy playing. I wrote the buy-in cash off the moment I sat down and so long as I'm smiling, I'm winning. (And a good read there @-LN- 👍🤠).

 

It is a videogame after all. Reading here its like WSOP or some sh*t, lol. 

 

I would like a mix though. Add a tournament on the ferry, a table at camp for posse's/friends too, and we're golden. Bring on the other minigames.

 

(Not that the rest of the game is any good mind you, poker saved it for me. But I will pop back once a month for some cards, just need the excited youth piss off after the buzz wares off).

Edited by Lonely-Martin

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Hetraet
14 hours ago, Smokewood said:

BTW, they know enough about poker to know that you will call an all-in bet without the nuts.... are you sure you've won a poker tournament before?

That's a misconception, they actually don't know if I'll call their all in or if I could be bluffin or if I actually have good hand, they just go all in because that's what newbies do and yes, I've won multiple tournaments before, playing with friends (friendly poker no real money) on GOP 3 I earned most of my 3mil chips from tournaments. This bs you edited in just doesn't make any sense really. 

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Hetraet

And no, I don't piss on cashgames because I lost money, I actually profited about 100 bucks yesterday alone. It's just that cashgames in rdo are pretty much just wait till you get a good hand because bluffing doesn't pay off because some people don't know what folding is. There's barely any "psychological" battle between players, there's not much you can do to trick people into falling into your own trap - basic example: starting with low bets and be hesitant even when I have excellent hand (example - straight, full house, flush) only to make other people bluff and make ridiculously high bets assuming I have a bad hand only that when the last round begins I start betting ridiculously high and the person who probably had a worse hand than me will be forced to either fold or play the game with me assuming I'm bluffing this tactic, either way the pot will get higher and backing up from this isn't easy for everyone...in rdo poker tho most of the players don't make any sense and are hard to see through because they don't have any tactic, hope this clears things up. Basically imo cashgames are more hazard and tournaments are more sport. Idk bout u but I don't like hazard

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Smokewood
14 minutes ago, Hetraet said:

That's a misconception, they actually don't know if I'll call their all in or if I could be bluffin or if I actually have good hand, they just go all in because that's what newbies do and yes, I've won multiple tournaments before, playing with friends (friendly poker no real money) on GOP 3 I earned most of my 3mil chips from tournaments. This bs you edited in just doesn't make any sense really. 

So you have zero experience.. go put $10 on pokerstars or whatever online poker site will accept it and get back to me.... 

I've been playing online poker for over 10 years, and Casino poker since the early 1990s.

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Hetraet
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

So you have zero experience.. go put $10 on pokerstars or whatever online poker site will accept it and get back to me.... 

I've been playing online poker for over 10 years, and Casino poker since the early 1990s.

Yeah and how much have you lost? Sry for underestimating you but you don't look that intelligent to win at poker

 

And experience doesn't have to be from casinos, poker is a game that can be played anywhere with anyone, I once won 300 czech crowns playing with my uncle, cousins and friends in one tournament game, I busted everyone and at that time I was 15 so 300 czk was quite enough for me. You look like a person who views poker mainly as hazard...it's not, it's  a game of skill.

 

Also I can't gamble with real money yet, I'm 17 y.o. believe it or not. I could hit u up in June when betting with real money becomes legal for me.

Edited by Hetraet

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Smokewood
1 hour ago, Hetraet said:

Yeah and how much have you lost? Sry for underestimating you but you don't look that intelligent to win at poker

lol You were the one who didn't know how a VPN worked, right....

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CMCSAVAGE
3 hours ago, -LN- said:

I personally enjoy tournaments more, but I have experience with both types of games. Cash games are good for building your bankroll if you have the time and patience to stick with it. Placing high within a tournament will often generate a nice payout right then and there, but you've really got to know what you're doing and be constantly focused on the entire game at all times. 

Well thought out post, and I enjoy tournament play more myself. SNG's are fine for a casual, no pressure daily poker fix, but the play or don't play won't last long on a TT. You need to position yourself early on and that's where your skill as a player is put to the test.

 

Like you said, you can't just sit back and do nothing. At some point you're going to have play, otherwise the blinds alone will eat you up. Say you're down to the final two and have 50k left after posting a 16k SB and get dealt a off suit J 5. Do you pay 16k to see the flop? Or do you fold knowing that you're paying the 32k BB with a chance to get crappier cards next turn?

 

What I play has a 25k buy in. For a 6 person table, there's a top 3 payout of 87,500,31,250,12,500 with a 12.5% house rake. As much as I'd like to see this in RDO I doubt it will ever happen. Which is no big deal since I'm not going on to play poker in the first place.

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