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Corrupt cop as a protagonist


Damien Scott
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4 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

What works well in action movies won’t necessarily work in a GTA game though, and the whole point of GTA is not being this untouchable powerful criminal who has the legal system in his pocket.

 

Corrupt cops are not untouchable and I didn't suggest they should, at least in movies they usually life in two worlds and face dangers from both worlds, the crime world and the law enforcement world, which makes them so interesting characters.

 

A corrupt cop has more power than an average thug and this might add some new facets to the game, but this does not mean he is untouchable, especially if he owes the mafia as I suggested for my plot. In free roam what does it matter if you're some thug or a corrupt cop, most GTA characters are not that psychopatic that mindless killings makes any sense, the only character for whom it actually makes sense is hated by many players, how does this fit?

 

Half of the story in GTA V you had criminals working for the law enforcement, why not law enforcement pursueing a criminal agenda in another GTA then?

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24 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

Imagine how boring it would’ve been to play Tenpenny throughout San Andreas instead of getting CJ to do his work due to his badge being at risk? Tenpenny may seem like the perfect idea for a cop protagonist, because he had influence in the criminal underworld. But he wasn’t open with it, he got others to do his work because Tenpenny was still a cop and had to maintain that image. If he was so open with his activity by doing even half of what the other protagonists did, he’d lose his job, and that would mean he’s no longer a cop. Face it, a corrupt cop protagonist is mostly an idea for the sake of trying something different, not because it would make the game better. Undercover cop maybe, not corrupt active serving cop though. 

Tenpenny is not a detective. The way I see it, the dirty cop protagonist would be a detective, similar to Alonzo Harris or Bad Lieutenant, they have more freedom and don't have to patrol the streets in a blue uniform. 

I don't think an undercover cop would work tho. An undercover cop wants to bring down an organization or someone, not use his badge to make money. 

Edited by Damien Scott
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  • 2 weeks later...
The Coconut Kid
On 6/17/2019 at 6:42 PM, Grotti Vigilante said:

Perhaps the ultimate question for those advocating such a risky move on Rockstar’s half is: what would choosing to have a corrupt cop protagonist honestly bring to the table? What benefits would it bring that playing as a regular crook would not? We’ve already gone over what it would take away, but what could justify taking the risks? Just to try something different? Trying something different for the sake of it will almost never work...

I don't feel like a corrupt cop would be a step backwards at all. Let's look at a few areas we would see improvements:

 

  • Experience of the police department as active participants in the criminal underworld, holding their own power and constantly fighting for their share of the profits. We've seen corrupt cops depicted as secondary characters in most of the games. For the most part they are rampage fodder. We have never seen a depiction of the environment they work in, risen up through it and how it functions hand in hand with organized crime.
     
  • Bringing crime to the forefront of the game. Both street crime and major organized crime. They're a corrupt cop -- their living is made on the basis of knowing the underworld inside out and the players who populate it from the top rungs to the bottom. They're constantly chasing information (they need it so you know who to target and what to rip off) and therefore never averse to getting your hands dirty. This is how it works across their whole department -- they're not going to be at risk of losing their badge over something that is an accepted practice.
     
  • A protagonist with power to wield -- but never too powerful to be at risk of losing everything. The goal of a corrupt cop should be to shape the underworld to their liking and extract a steady profit from it, rather than a protagonist who moves from mission giver to mission giver aimlessly shooting whatever provides a payday. Think of someone with the ambition and intelligence of Tommy Vercetti but working within the practice of police corruption rather than the mafia.
     
  • Broader types of crime the protagonist is involved in. Where previous characters had a specific area they were involved in for the most part, for example Michael and bank robbery, or Niko and Tommy as hitmen, the corrupt cop has to have a more fluid approach to what crimes they're involved in -- they make their money from preying on what's available. The GTA formula we know and love and a corrupt cop would fit like a glove in regards to this.

You've made a couple of good points in your other post so I'd like to respond to them next.

 

On 6/17/2019 at 11:12 PM, Grotti Vigilante said:

What works well in action movies won’t necessarily work in a GTA game though, and the whole point of GTA is not being this untouchable powerful criminal who has the legal system in his pocket. If that were the case there would be no need for the wanted level, cause the system is now at your disposal. No jeopardy or action in missions. Tommy Vercetti may have become top dog in Vice City, but the legal system still wasn’t in his control, and he is probably the most powerful protagonist in the GTA series. Same with Toni Cipriani. He and Salvatore may have the mayor in their pocket, but again the legal system still applies to him. Truth is, GTA is about being a criminal who rises up against all odds in the underworld. It’s not about some dirty cop who has criminal activity at risk.

Having a corrupt cop as the main character wouldn't come at the expense of action in missions or the risk the protagonist faces. They shouldn't be untouchable. Remember -- the police should function as their own form of organized crime, equally as ambitious and treacherous as the villains. They wouldn't just be competing against criminals but also their fellow cops. It goes without saying that the protagonist should have (and aim for) power, I've made a point of that above, but their power should be built on reputation.

 

The criminal characters shouldn't simply bend over for any old cop who produces his badge and expects a handout. They're more likely to cooperate through fear, which would require more than a few heavy action missions to establish the protagonist's credentials.

 

Fear and power require the protagonist to be visible -- they need to make crazy moves and be seen doing it. There's no need to eliminate the usual 'rise to power' structure of GTA. There are levels of police corruption to rise up through and they require reputation. Think of the first move Vercetti made after taking over in Vice City: to go and shoot up the Mall shouting, "Tommy Vercetti, remember the name! I run this town now..." etc. I can't see why a corrupt cop shouldn't have similar moments, but they shouldn't be exempt from being investigated, reassigned and so on. Think of them like roadblocks similar to how Niko gets run out of Hove Beach. I would be genuinely disappointed if we got a corrupt cop who operates with complete impunity, but I also expect them to get rumbled several times in the story and be capable enough to take care of these issues (witnesses, rivals, so forth) when they arise.

 

On 6/17/2019 at 11:12 PM, Grotti Vigilante said:

Imagine how boring it would’ve been to play Tenpenny throughout San Andreas instead of getting CJ to do his work due to his badge being at risk? Tenpenny may seem like the perfect idea for a cop protagonist, because he had influence in the criminal underworld. But he wasn’t open with it, he got others to do his work because Tenpenny was still a cop and had to maintain that image. If he was so open with his activity by doing even half of what the other protagonists did, he’d lose his job, and that would mean he’s no longer a cop. Face it, a corrupt cop protagonist is mostly an idea for the sake of trying something different, not because it would make the game better. Undercover cop maybe, not corrupt active serving cop though. 

You're assuming that Tenpenny would make a boring protagonist based solely on his interactions with C.J though -- we have no idea of what he was involved in outside of those. Based on the people he has C.J. kill for him -- two journalists, government agents, a witness, plus the D.A. he had set up -- it's fair to say he wasn't above getting his own hands dirty at some point. It's not unreasonable to imagine a game set 5 years previous to San Andreas with Tenpenny at his peak and with a much more active role, not unlike how 5 years on from Vice City, Tommy probably wouldn't be able to leave his mansion without being tailed by a fleet of fed cars.

 

I've provided a few reasons of what a corrupt cop would bring to the table, I don't mind elaborating on them further, and I feel like there's a few other posts in this thread that make a good case for the idea too.

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6 hours ago, The Coconut Kid said:

but they shouldn't be exempt from being investigated, reassigned and so on. Think of them like roadblocks similar to how Niko gets run out of Hove Beach. I would be genuinely disappointed if we got a corrupt cop who operates with complete impunity, but I also expect them to get rumbled several times in the story and be capable enough to take care of these issues (witnesses, rivals, so forth) when they arise.

Reminds me a bit of The Wire and how McNulty got sent to the place he didn't want to be the boat because he pissed off his boss.

 

Internal affairs would investigate our corrupt cop protagonist and be one of his major causes of stress.

Edited by Zello
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2 hours ago, Zello said:

Reminds me a bit of The Wire and how McNulty got sent to the place he didn't want to be the boat because he pissed of his boss.

Then again he shoved 14 Jane Does' right up Rawls's ass. (Read Bunk and Freamon's ass). Natural PO LICE.

 

2 hours ago, Zello said:

Internal affairs would investigate our corrupt cop protagonist and be one of his major causes of stress.

The best thing that comes in my mind is Jon Kavanaugh vs Vic Mackey. S5 of The Shield was brilliant.

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  • 2 months later...

In fact: as a cop you could choose to got both ways - either exclusively or at the same time! Like having 'Light Side' and 'Dark Side' Missions.

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  • 1 year later...
On 6/14/2019 at 4:54 AM, el carlitos said:

I hope the ideas in this thread never become true. So bad. Would destroy GTA franchise in an instant. 

Jesus... You know people SAYING this stuff is why we can't have nice things.

 

Edit: Wait read this wrong. I thought you were saying a perfectly executed new IP by a different developer would challenge and destroy GTA only to QUICKLY get brought down to earth by GTA Fanboys ripping the game to shreds even if its "better".

Oh well I guess your right, though destroy in an instant is clearly exaggeration.

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8 hours ago, KingAJ032304 said:

Jesus... You know people SAYING this stuff is why we can't have nice things.

 

Edit: Wait read this wrong. I thought you were saying a perfectly executed new IP by a different developer would challenge and destroy GTA only to QUICKLY get brought down to earth by GTA Fanboys ripping the game to shreds even if its "better".

Oh well I guess your right, though destroy in an instant is clearly exaggeration.

 

Having 2 protagonists, one being a cop that has a morality meter like in RDR so that he or she can become crooked or walk the straight and narrow would be cool. If you go the straight and narrow path the only possible ending would be

 

Straight Cop:

Good Ending 1: kill other protagonist

Good Ending 2: arrest other protagonist

 

Where as the crooked endings would be:

Bad Ending 1: form an alliance with the other protagonist

Bad Ending 2: kill the other protagonist and steal all of his drugs, money, connects

 

The other protagonist is in the cartel, typical Tony Montana / Tommy Vercetti / Escobar story, doesn't have a morality meter since he's the criminal.

 

 

 

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f*ck yeahhhh.. a real corrupt cop though.. not a guy who's forced because the criminal has him by the balls. It's only GTA if you play as the bad guy.. 

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GinsengElixir

Maybe in a different R* game. The idea would work in story, but not at all in free roam if players want to rampage. I however like to RP so would have no issue restraining myself(can't talk about 'accidentally' running peds over) in free roam. I haven't actually indulged in rampages since GTA2, except with Trevor.

 

For me it'd only work if we had two playable protags. Although the narrative dragged it down, I was one who thought the three playable protags in GTAV was a genius idea. The retired bank robber, the retired gangbanger, and the wild card Trevor allowed me to play in 3 distinct ways without the ludo-narrative dissonance. This would serve a similar purpose if R* could write it well enough. 

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1 hour ago, The Wolf Man said:

Bad Lieutenant?

Yeah, the original Bad Lieutenant is great but the 2009 ''remake'' with Nic Cage is second to none, it's his most underrated film imo. Port of Call New Orleans' lieutenant would fit GTA more than the original one.

 

Edited by Damien Scott
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/3/2019 at 1:03 PM, Casualplaya said:

In fact: as a cop you could choose to got both ways - either exclusively or at the same time! Like having 'Light Side' and 'Dark Side' Missions.

Thats literally true crime/Sleeping Dogs more fleshed out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

We need a degenerate gambler corrupt cop protagonist. He has a gambling problem and gets involved deep with some criminals that now own him.

On 6/17/2019 at 10:32 AM, TheSantader25 said:

Sleeping Dogs already had an undercover cop. 

I don't want an undercover cop and find that idea lame. I want a narcotics detective that gets into the faces of the guys they chase after the criminals know him and he knows all their names.

 

People are also able to easily make who an undercover cop is and expose them.

Edited by Zello
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