🏏 TO GRIEF OR NOT TO GRIEF, what exactly is it?

[Rotorhead359]

6 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

To make you feel better.

Go ahead and report someone for destroying your cargo... nothing will come from it.

I think destroying cargo actually gives good sport bonus, they both happen to be 2k.

Btw, personally I think the option to report people for griefing was meant for jet/tank griefers back in 2013. I know it isn't meant for people who blow up cargo.

Also, I'm still missing the option to report people for using mod menus, should I put that on Exploits or Other?

[Nyamber]

8 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

To make you feel better.

Go ahead and report someone for destroying your cargo... nothing will come from it.

sh*tty argument. Reporting someone for anything, including modding, will result in nothing. Because R* are a lazy company who can't be bothered to deal with reports.

[Jenkiiii]

16 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Is this a joke thread?

There is no such thing as griefing in GTAO

It's a free for all open world PvP zone.

* I do not support cheating in any way.

Firstly, no it's not a joke. It's a well-thought-out article that tries to explain what many people think, but haven't been able to put into words.

 

Secondly, if griefing doesn't exist in GTA online then where does it exist?

 

Thirdly, and to answer the section highlighted in yellow: GTA online is whatever you want it to be. For some people it's a place to meet up with friends, mod and sell cars, rob a few stores, explore the map, interact with the amazing world and while-away a few hours. Aggressive players make it into a PvP zone by attacking other players for a number of reasons. Sometimes this can be classified as griefing or bullying when stronger players pick on weaker players for continuous periods of time. The details of these actions are discussed in the OP, which you should take time to read and then think about.

[HopalongCasidy]

Re: cargo sales, sell in a solo.  If not, I think the most effective tool is lagging out when you see them coming.  Anyone who derives pleasure from being a deck also gets disappointed when they can’t be one.  

[Smokewood]

1 hour ago, Jenkiiii said:

Firstly, no it's not a joke. It's a well-thought-out article that tries to explain what many people think, but haven't been able to put into words.

 

Secondly, if griefing doesn't exist in GTA online then where does it exist?

 

Thirdly, and to answer the section highlighted in yellow: GTA online is whatever you want it to be. For some people it's a place to meet up with friends, mod and sell cars, rob a few stores, explore the map, interact with the amazing world and while-away a few hours. Aggressive players make it into a PvP zone by attacking other players for a number of reasons. Sometimes this can be classified as griefing or bullying when stronger players pick on weaker players for continuous periods of time. The details of these actions are discussed in the OP, which you should take time to read and then think about.

Well it is well written, for sure. I meant is, should I consider the content to be taken seriously?

 

As long as the players are following the defined rules of the game, then their actions, by definition, cannot be considered griefing.

So to answer your question, griefing requires cheating.

[Jenkiiii]

17 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Well it is well written, for sure. I meant is, should I consider the content to be taken seriously?

 

As long as the players are following the defined rules of the game, then their actions, by definition, cannot be considered griefing.

So to answer your question, griefing requires cheating.

The content of the OP is for you to take seriously or dismiss at your leisure. You decide.

 

Many of us make the same mistake: We define our own synopsis of what griefing is and then expect everyone else to understand and agree with it, instead of looking at things from the perspective of other players. One person believes that everything goes in GTA online, while another person thinks the game is an entire nightmare. Neither are correct.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Jenkiiii

[kenmy13999]

26 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Well it is well written, for sure. I meant is, should I consider the content to be taken seriously?

 

As long as the players are following the defined rules of the game, then their actions, by definition, cannot be considered griefing.

So to answer your question, griefing requires cheating.

Didn't you say something about it wasn't possible to take cars out for a spin and showing them off without getting your head sniped off or something like that yesterday?  Also wanting the same kind of "anti griefing" measures they've added in RDO? You didn't say anti griefing measure but R* added it as that, so is griefing happening in RDO but not gtao? 

 

Just the fact that you acknowledge it can be difficult driving around in a normal car without being killed kind of shows that you deep down knows there's griefing in gtao also without cheating btw, you can ghost a player if he kills you three times without you doing anything in gtao as a solution to griefing so even R* consider something griefing but it's the players in the end that determine what they consider griefing. Just Google griefing in online games and you'll get a definition of griefing, one of the top results even have it's own line about gtao iirc

 

[Rumblebud]

2 hours ago, AirWolf359 said:

Also, I'm still missing the option to report people for using mod menus, should I put that on Exploits or Other?

It's probably best going in "Other" and just explaining what's happening. I doubt it'll do anything but it's worth a try.

[HamwithCheese]

Lol, "no such thing as griefing". If youre in an open world and someone is keeping you from moving in said open world, well then what the f*ck is that?

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

17 hours ago, Smokewood said:

Is this a joke thread?

 

[Big Molio]

18 hours ago, Agent 14 said:

What really grind my gears is when they say oh the game told me to do it I did nothing wrong therefore you're the problem not me har har har.

 

Like wtf they don't even consider how much of a dick they sound and how much of a cunt blowing someone cargo sales MC sales nightclub sales or whatever it is that you're selling made them look.

 

They have a point, because if that activity is both endorsed and encouraged by the developers, then they have legitimised it, despite the howls of protest to the contrary. The people complaining are perhaps the ones with the problem because they are wilfully playing and expecting something else from a game which has "griefing" as an inherent part of the game play.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Big Molio

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

7 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

They have a point, because if that activity is both endorsed and encouraged by the developers, then they have legitimised it, despite the howls of protest to the contrary.

They really don't, the whole "the game told me to" argument is just a lame, tired and trite attempt at deflecting accountability for their actions ingame. "Oh, don't blame me, blame the developers for letting me a dick in the first place".

 

Just because it's endorsed, encouraged, rewarded, promoted, whatever by the developers for obviou$ rea$on$ it doesn't mean that it's suddenly not griefing either.

 

32 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

The people complaining are perhaps the ones with the problem because they are wilfully playing and expecting something else from a game which has "griefing" as an inherent part of the game play.

The problem here is not the people who rightfully complain about the current state of the game, the problem are the developers who encourage toxic behaviour and the players who indulge in said behaviour.

[Big Molio]

58 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

They really don't, the whole "the game told me to" argument is just a lame, tired and trite attempt at deflecting accountability for their actions ingame. "Oh, don't blame me, blame the developers for letting me a dick in the first place".

 

Just because it's endorsed, encouraged, rewarded, promoted, whatever by the developers for obviou$ rea$on$ it doesn't mean that it's suddenly not griefing either.

 

The problem here is not the people who rightfully complain about the current state of the game, the problem are the developers who encourage toxic behaviour and the players who indulge in said behaviour.

They really do, because the designers of this game own the right to present whatever their vision is for it, and their current game is "griefing" by design. Grief Theft Auto, if you like. Everybody knows this by now after six years, and after years of protests, complaints, angry emails, submitted suggestions and howls of fury on forum boards across the internet like this one, Rockstar have stuck rigidly to that concept, for fair reasons or foul.

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Big Molio

[Agent 14]

2 hours ago, Big Molio said:

They have a point, because if that activity is both endorsed and encouraged by the developers, then they have legitimised it, despite the howls of protest to the contrary. The people complaining are perhaps the ones with the problem because they are wilfully playing and expecting something else from a game which has "griefing" as an inherent part of the game play.

 

 

I don't mind a little bit of gun play. But if they're coming after me wait until I'm done doing my sale. Attacking me while I'm in the middle of a sale and then blowing it up it's total bitch move. 

 

 

 

Most people who blow up cargo don't even do it because of the whole "the game told me to excuse" they do it to be cunts to get a negative reaction from someone by being toxic and malicious to make the victim mad.

 

 

If you're playing this game and doing things like this just to make people mad so you have a laugh then you're the problem. 

[Smokewood]

2 hours ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

They really don't, the whole "the game told me to" argument is just a lame, tired and trite attempt at deflecting accountability for their actions ingame. "Oh, don't blame me, blame the developers for letting me a dick in the first place".

The game doesn't TELL me to do anything. It INVITES me to do so if I should want to.

That's a giant difference. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Smokewood

[GT Aedan]

Griefer has replaced Wanker in the Oxford Dictionary

[kenmy13999]

7 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

The game doesn't TELL me to do anything. It INVITES me to do so if I should want to.

That a giant difference. 

And still 99% of the people doing it says "the game told me to..." 

[Big Molio]

45 minutes ago, Agent 14 said:

I don't mind a little bit of gun play. But if they're coming after me wait until I'm done doing my sale. Attacking me while I'm in the middle of a sale and then blowing it up it's total bitch move. 

 

Most people who blow up cargo don't even do it because of the whole "the game told me to excuse" they do it to be cunts to get a negative reaction from someone by being toxic and malicious to make the victim mad.

 

If you're playing this game and doing things like this just to make people mad so you have a laugh then you're the problem. 

Players then need to step back and ask themselves "Is this the sort of game I want to spend my money buying, and my time playing?" because the developers have devised a game mechanic whereby the legitimate play ethos is to be cunts towards each other. It is engineered this way. 

[kenmy13999]

^ it's probably a little late thinking 'is this the game I want to spend my money buying'. There's also a lot of other things to do but either you earn money so you can buy things or you buy shark cards and that's the only reason R* encourage griefing, shark cards 

[Smokewood]

22 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

And still 99% of the people doing it says "the game told me to..." 

They are misspeaking - they mean it invited them.

16 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

^ it's probably a little late thinking 'is this the game I want to spend my money buying'. There's also a lot of other things to do but either you earn money so you can buy things or you buy shark cards and that's the only reason R* encourage griefing, shark cards 

Nonsense.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

7 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

The game doesn't TELL me to do anything. It INVITES me to do so if I should want to.

That a giant difference. 

That's the thing though, an invitation is optional, you're not forced to partake in and you don't get penalized or punished in any way if you don't.

[kcole4001]

39 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

^ it's probably a little late thinking 'is this the game I want to spend my money buying'. There's also a lot of other things to do but either you earn money so you can buy things or you buy shark cards and that's the only reason R* encourage griefing, shark cards 

They do encourage it, yet without encouragement it would still exist.

In one of my favorite flight sims, there is griefing on the online servers, all of which are tightly moderated.

People spawn camp, team kill, mission troll, etc. for absolutely no benefit and it's completely against community and server rules.

The offenders are banned permanently, but merely make new accounts and start over again until they're booted yet again.

 

It's not rampant, but it exists, and there is no benefit to the offending players whatsoever.

 

Point being, human nature is the problem, some people will be " cunts towards each other", to use Molio's terminology, any time they're given the opportunity.

Benefit has nothing to do with, encouragement has nothing to do with it.

If game design does not limit it, it encourages it.

Allowing will mean it will happen, guaranteed.

 

It rests completely on the shoulders of the player how they play any game.

Edited June 9, 2019 by kcole4001
spelling

[Agent 14]

57 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

Players then need to step back and ask themselves "Is this the sort of game I want to spend my money buying, and my time playing?" because the developers have devised a game mechanic whereby the legitimate play ethos is to be cunts towards each other. It is engineered this way. 

Even if the game didn't encourage players to blow up others cargo griefers will still grief cargo just for the simple fact of getting someone mad. 

[Talisman_83]

I'm a part-time griefer (previously fully-fledged).

I won't attack other's cargo, but if you go after me, I'll f*ckin rain fire on you, your cargo and your friends.

[Agent 14]

1 minute ago, Talisman_83 said:

I'm a part-time griefer (previously fully-fledged).

I won't attack other's cargo, but if you go after me, I'll f*ckin rain fire on you, your cargo and your friends.

This sounds fair. Tbh 

26 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

That's the thing though, an invitation is optional, you're not forced to partake in and you don't get penalized or punished in any way if you don't.

Don't even bother to reason with him. As he has compared a power forward basketball player who's job is to block shots to griefing at his own will. Nothing you'll say will reason with him.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

20 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

It rests completely on the shoulders of the player how they play any game.

While I agree with the notion that players will be dicks no matter what, I also think that a playerbase becomes as toxic as the developers let them be.

 

After all, there's a difference between players finding ways to grief other players outside the boundaries that the game allows and the developers literally promoting, rewarding and outright empowering griefing like behaviour for profit.

[kenmy13999]

1 hour ago, Smokewood said:

They are misspeaking - they mean it invited them.

Nonsense.

Nonsense 

[Agent 14]

1 hour ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

While I agree with the notion that players will be dicks no matter what, I also think that a playerbase becomes as toxic as the developers let them be.

 

After all, there's a difference between players finding ways to grief other players outside the boundaries that the game allows and the developers literally promoting, rewarding and outright empowering griefing like behaviour for profit.

Exactly, problem is rockstar will continue to encourage this kind of toxic behavior by not doing anything against them and adding another successor to the previous grief vehicle. Is all just a tactic to infuriate player enough for them to give in and buy in game currency from them. That's all it really is. We can't really blame rockstar either as they're doing exactly what they're told by take two which are the parent company and are the reason shark card exist. 

 

 

They even did the same sh*t on NBA 2K by adding VC which is virtual currency to upgrade your player, and to purchase virtual shoes and clothing etc.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Agent 14

[Smokewood]

4 hours ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

That's the thing though, an invitation is optional, you're not forced to partake in and you don't get penalized or punished in any way if you don't.

Right, however if I do accept it - it cannot be considered griefing.

Glad we are on the same page.

 

________________________

 

ok, so I logged into GTAO for the first time in at least 2 months this morning.

First thing that happened was I received $500,000 for some unknown reason. Cool.

I spawned in inside my nightclub. I wanted to go see the Casino.

I registered as a CEO, walked outside and called my buzzard,

I took off and headed towards the casino - wait what - locked on to something, cool!! Eagle 3 - Fox 1! Missles away!

Oh sh*t it was a cop!

Damn, call Lester....

Ok still traveling.. lock on again! Eagle 3 - Fox 2! Some random player has been killed by smokewood. Awesome!

OK still traveling.. Lock on again! Eagle 3 - Fox 3! Some random player has been killed by smokewood. Awesome!

Ok still traveling, oh sh*t I clipped a sign - buzzard is smoking - going down!!

I see one of my houses - land there.

Go inside - take bong hit - go in garage and take off in my (can't remember the model) convertible car that can jump and thrust through the air. 

Let's try it, oh sh*t landed in a lake!

Call Mors Mutual to reclaim.

Call out new buzzard.

Take off.

Finally get to Casino.

Players everywhere looking at it.

Switch to machine gun - mow them down - crash in process - dead!

 

I love this game....

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Smokewood

[Lonely-Martin]

5 hours ago, Big Molio said:

Players then need to step back and ask themselves "Is this the sort of game I want to spend my money buying, and my time playing?" because the developers have devised a game mechanic whereby the legitimate play ethos is to be cunts towards each other. It is engineered this way. 

Yeah, here it is. It's all avoidable once ya learn the kinks.

 

But I get your point, and it is why I don't play RDRO though. Just as childish out in public there but no way to play my game of it, so I pass for now in hope of the lobby options R* say they've got to be dropped. If not, ahh well. Just a shame it's a R* game is all, room for so much more.