🏏 TO GRIEF OR NOT TO GRIEF, what exactly is it?

[Big Molio]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:59 PM, kcole4001 said:

Stealing I/E cars is the epitome of GTA!

Blowing stuff up is not.

I tried to sell a CEO car that I had stolen from somebody earlier, and I got caught out in the open by a “xx-Kryzx-xx” type ghosty face rebreather who blew it up with his jet.

 

Easy come, easy go.

[Jenkiiii]

19 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

Oh boy, are we going off-topic here? 

To be fair it was kind of inevitable, given the thread title, but I'm willing to give it one more chance and let things move on.

Off-topic posts from anyone will result in them being removed from this point forwards and also be considered for naughty step time.  If things carry on as the way they are though, we'll have to consider this thread as no longer viable.

 

Please, play nice.

I have had nearly 24 hours to reflect on this post and need to make some comments.

 

If people can't have their say then there is no point keeping this thread open, and it might as well be closed. Your comments could inhibit general conversation and stop people from posting anything at all. The fact is, we have done a very good job of self-regulating this thread and making sure that the conversation doesn't get out of hand. The word "griefing" itself is going to stir up emotions in many players, but griefers and non-griefers alike are doing a great job of listening to other people and trying to understand their viewpoints instead of getting into heated arguments. We understand each other better than we did before: there is no right or wrong in griefing. It's a fundamental part of GTA online and videogaming and the only way to deal with it, comprehend it and live with it is to discuss it.

 

Close this thread and it will pop up in a less regulated format somewhere else on these forums, which you will have to moderate and close at a later date, ad infinitum.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

I don't particularly want to close the thread....

It does create an interesting debate and has made good points.  But the discussion got out of hand last night, so I just stepped in to calm things down.

Carry it on by all means, but if the reports start coming in if and you need our help to keep it under control, don't take it personally or think any of us are being heavy handed.  My few words knocked everything on the head before the thread had an excuse to be finished permanently.

[D9fred95]

21 hours ago, MissMurkina said:

I've stated earlier that I grief purely for the entertainment it causes, and because I have nothing else to do on the game.

Isn't that just trolling then?

[Foxecality]

'Eye for an eye, blown up shipment for a blown up shipment' is how I look at things. If they keep their nose out of my business and I keep mine out of theirs, then we can both make some dosh in peace. Or if some MKII sh*tter is bullying some other randoms who're trying to sell their stuff, I'll go off radar and blow him up before flying off to my office.

[LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:58 PM, Agent 14 said:

Tbh I think the game would be boring if everyone played this like it was SIMS.

I know I’m late but I do want to add my opinion.

 

I wouldn’t mind if more people played like it was the SIMS — just a M-rated version of the SIMS where you can steal cars and shoot people and stuff.  I actually think that would be far more fun than Call of Battle Theft Auto this game has turned into.

 

Anyways, PVP is just a part of this game; like it or not.  I had never heard the term “griefing” before GTA Online, been gaming since the 90’s. For us old folks they used to call it trolling. I guess nowadays trolling would be considered the innocent, juvenile version of griefing.

 

My definition of griefing would be someone cheating or otherwise using tactics not permitted by the designer to continuously harass someone, which, just being honest, sounds like something a loser would do.  (Like those guys that used to cheat by turning their modem on standby) But it seems that here, “griefing” can have a broad meaning even implied that simply killing another player for no reason could be considered as such.  I disagree with that notion.  Killing another player in a game that gives you guns and the ability to do so does not equal griefing, even if the person who was killed has no interest in PVP combat.  This game isn’t meant to be a morality checker in the sense that yeah, they give us guns and stuff, but I shouldn’t kill that random other player that I don’t know because it might hurt his feelings, or ruin his import/export mission, which will surely ruin his day in real life.

 

Don’t want even the slightest chance of interaction with other players? Stay in private lobbies. ... “But I can’t do X Y Z to make money in private lobbies!”  Oh well, too bad ! Blame R*’s business model or better yet, put down the game and play something that won’t make you upset.

 

I’m saying this as someone who doesn’t play GTAO often; so, my character is low level, not a lot of money, I refuse to buy shark cards, etc.  I often get rekt or trolled or griefed by super high level players.. yeah it happens - video games aren’t my number 1 priority and since I play other games more often than GTAO I never really get a chance to hone my skills or really get good.  I said that to say, I’m far from a tryhard, don’t have all the guns and goodies, sometimes I try to make money doing stuff and get screwed over.  I mean I don’t like when it happens but I understood the consequences of playing a game like GTA (why does this sound way more serious than it is? lmao) ... sucks but, what can you do ? Certainly not gonna come and whine and complain that other people keep killing me in this M-rated, violent, open world PVP sandbox game.

 

Part of the game is interacting with other players.  Wether those interactions are good or otherwise, it’s part of the game.  Is it fun to be greifed? No, as I just mentioned it’s never fun to be on the tail side of someone’s killing spree.. but just switch sessions.. or maybe put the controller down and go outside.. it’s not life-ruining.  If you really don’t like it, don’t play it; or, get mad at the real culprit: R*’s business model.

 

 

 

 

Funny thing is, I can’t recall similar complaints on GTA IV’s multiplayer.  When you ran into a troll it usually amounted to something hilarious.

Edited June 17, 2019 by LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy

[Nyamber]

4 minutes ago, LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy said:

Funny thing is, I can’t recall similar complaints on GTA IV’s multiplayer.  When you ran into a troll it usually amounted to something hilarious.

Because in 4 multiplayer, you couldn't lose up to like, 10 hours of time by having a shipment destroyed in 2 seconds.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Natsuki

[LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy]

Just now, Natsuki said:

Because in 4 multiplayer, you couldn't lose up to like, 10 hours of time in 2 seconds by having a shipment destroyed.

You skipped over everything I said just to reply with that ?

[Nyamber]

Just now, LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy said:

You skipped over everything I said just to reply with that ?

Everything else has been discussed to death. What do you want me to say? "I disagree with everything you said"?

 

There. I said it.

[LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy]

6 minutes ago, Natsuki said:

Everything else has been discussed to death. What do you want me to say? "I disagree with everything you said"?

 

There. I said it.

Well then, let me refer you to the best course of action:

 

14 minutes ago, LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy said:

If you really don’t like it, don’t play it; or, get mad at the real culprit: R*’s business model.

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy

[Nyamber]

4 minutes ago, LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy said:

If you really don’t like it, don’t play it; or, get mad at the real culprit: R*’s business model.

There can be more than one person responsible, you know.

 

R* are to blame, but that doesn't mean the dicks who enjoy ruining other people's gameplay aren't also.

[kenmy13999]

17 minutes ago, LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy said:

.  If you really don’t like it, don’t play it; 

 

 

 

 

 

This should really never be the solution 

[Smokewood]

Griefing requires cheating.

As long as someone is playing by the rules of the game, then those actions cannot be considered griefing.

[Lonely-Martin]

9 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Griefing requires cheating.

As long as someone is playing by the rules of the game, then those actions cannot be considered griefing.

If that was true, RDRO wouldn't have had offensive/defensive modes added to discourage it, lol.

[LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy]

19 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

This should really never be the solution 

Oh please ! What is then ? Ban every asshole from playing the game forever?  You’ll ban everyone in the world except the niche bubble of people on GTAF that really have a problem with this !

 

 

Gonna find yourself real lonely sooner or later buddy.

 

 

R* is not a democracy. You can’t vote for what you want.  The game plays the way it was designed, don’t like the game, find another one.

[Big Molio]

37 minutes ago, Natsuki said:

Because in 4 multiplayer, you couldn't lose up to like, 10 hours of time by having a shipment destroyed in 2 seconds.

The only reason that a player is willing to risk up to ten hours of play time is because he is chasing a bumper payout for being successful. With that in mind, just how easy do you expect the game’s designer is going to make it for you?

Edited June 17, 2019 by Big Molio

[LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy]

26 minutes ago, Natsuki said:

There can be more than one person responsible, you know.

 

R* are to blame, but that doesn't mean the dicks who enjoy ruining other people's gameplay aren't also.

So, ban everyone ?

Edited June 17, 2019 by LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy

[kenmy13999]

4 minutes ago, LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy said:

Oh please ! What is then ? Ban every asshole from playing the game forever?  You’ll ban everyone in the world except the niche bubble of people on GTAF that really have a problem with this !

 

 

Gonna find yourself real lonely sooner or later buddy.

 

 

R* is not a democracy. You can’t vote for what you want.  The game plays the way it was designed, don’t like the game, find another one.

Never have I said anything about banning anyone, lol there's no other games like this so the don't like it don't play it "solution" is just plain stupid imo. 

I said it earlier in the thread that I always sell in as crowded lobbies as possible so I personally don't have a problem with that at least but other people have and they should also have the right to be heard.. 

19 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

If that was true, RDRO wouldn't have had offensive/defensive modes added to discourage it, lol.

They wouldn't added so you can ghost people if they kill you three times without you doing anything to prevent someone griefing you in this game either 

[LeslieFromTheShoIntimacy]

1 minute ago, kenmy13999 said:

Never have I said anything about banning anyone, lol there's no other games like this so the don't like it don't play it "solution" is just plain stupid imo. 

I said it earlier in the thread that I always sell in as crowded lobbies as possible so I personally don't have a problem with that at least but other people have and they should also have the right to be heard.. 

I know you didn’t say ban anyone, nor did I say that you did.  I’m just asking since a lot of people here don’t seem to mind that this is the way R* made the game, but have a problem with players playing it because “they’re being mean”

 

Also, don’t see how my advice is “just plain stupid”.. the game is the way the game is. If you don’t like the game or certain elements of the game, don’t play it orrrr? I don’t know what to tell you.. that applies for real life too.  If you don’t like the food somewhere, are you gonna keep going there and bitching to the waiters that the food sucks? Or are you going to just stop going there ?

 

I don’t see how putting the game down because you are unhappy with online interactions as a bad thing, rather than coming complain and whine all day about how other people are dicks and jerks.. how exactly does that further your cause ?

 

btw, I never said people shouldn’t be heard? By all means, be heard.. but I mean FFS.. this is the way R* made the game.

[Smokewood]

8 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Anyway, as explained by many and shown with the variety in responses, what you consider grief isn't universal, and that alone is the problem.

Agreed - that's why I have an issue with the word griefing.

Griefing carries a negative stigma with it.....

 

So, I chose to focus on what is quantifiable. Cheating, glitching, exploits... these are the words that actually have a meaning. These are the subjects we should care about - not being butthurt because someone killed me in a pvp related game.

[Nyamber]

31 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Griefing carries a negative stigma with it

That is the whole point of the word, so... yeah. Duh.

[Smokewood]

2 minutes ago, Natsuki said:

That is the whole point of the word, so... yeah. Duh.

so yeah duh, nothing in gtao is griefing then.....unless it involves cheating. 

[Nyamber]

2 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

so yeah duh, nothing in gtao is griefing then

 

Wrong.

[Smokewood]

1 minute ago, Natsuki said:

 

Wrong.

Like i said, not possible in GTAO

Thanks, glad you finally realized it.

[Up2NoGood45]

Griefers have always been in pvp games.  I remember Battlefield 1942 used to be a huge online game but we called them campers or spammers.  

 

Return to Castle Wolfenstein was also a huge online game and great fun back in the day.

[Nyamber]

1 minute ago, Smokewood said:

Like i said, not possible in GTAO

Thanks, glad you finally realized it.

 

The f*ck are you talking about? That describes people who destroy cargo to a T...

 

inb4 "bUt RoCkStAr mAdE It tHat WaY"

 

Developer sanctioned griefing is still griefing, whether you like it or not.

[Standard Deluxe 59]

Arguably the best way to split the difference here is to just allow everything to be done in any lobby you want. Whether that's regular public or invite only. Both sides at least will leave content with the situation rather than endlessly bickering with one another over who's to blame and what's right or wrong. 

          Yes, I know this thread is supposed to be about what griefing is but lo and behold we're back at the old rockstar allows it So it's not griefing argument. Yes, there is griefing in this game, sanctioned or not it does exist. 

[Smokewood]

12 minutes ago, Natsuki said:

 

The f*ck are you talking about? That describes people who destroy cargo to a T...

 

inb4 "bUt RoCkStAr mAdE It tHat WaY"

 

Developer sanctioned griefing is still griefing, whether you like it or not.

How can playing by the defined rules ever be griefing?

Makes no sense - just like my chess example.

When my pawn kills your queen that is not griefing.

[Nyamber]

1 minute ago, Smokewood said:

How can playing by the defined rules ever be griefing?

When it causes people grief. Simple.

 

And take your bullsh*t analogies that don't apply to this situation out of here. Chess only has one objective. If there was a way you could play it on your own, and someone came and f*cked up what you were doing just because they felt like it, then it would apply.

[Big Molio]

24 minutes ago, Natsuki said:

inb4 "bUt RoCkStAr mAdE It tHat WaY"

 

Developer sanctioned griefing is still griefing, whether you like it or not.

Makes one wonder why people play “Grief Theft Auto Online” then.

 

inb4 “But there’s nothing else like it so I have to”