Online BETA

[Ghoffman9]

On 5/8/2019 at 11:28 PM, Jason said:

Not as a whole. Lootboxes (gambling) and P2W are what that bill is trying to stop and while lootboxes are straightforward to ban P2W can be very tricky to define because P2W comes in many forms. Cosmetic mtx will be fine.

 

The bill is still a big if though, but if it did pass holy sh*t would it have consequences. EA and Fifa would be mega f*cked.

Looking over the bill that Halley presented is that it targets all game systems who inhibit game progression to try and manipulate consumers towards buying micro-transactions. This goes for both pay to win mechanics as well as cosmetic only transactions. This of which Rockstar/Take Two is a massive offender on this front. Not to mention that this bill is targeted at games that kids play, including games like GTAO and RDO where we all know that kids had been playing them for years, Rockstar is well aware of this two. putting Rockstar under the micro-scope. In terms of GTAO it most certainly is pay to win as it is now. If you don't own all the OP weapons, vehicles and so on, you do not stand a snow balls chance in hell against other players. Pit a rank 1 against a rank 500 player in a Deluxo or Khanjali and tell me how it worked out.

[ALifeOfMisery]

6 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Not to mention that this bill is targeted at games that kids play, including games like GTAO and RDO where we all know that kids had been playing them for years, Rockstar is well aware of this two. putting Rockstar under the micro-scope.

I'd be extremely surprised if anyone managed to successfully, legally, argue that R* targets under age players with GTAO and RDO. We all know under age players play these games, but I'm certain R* could argue that the develope mature rated games and can't be held accountable for parental discretion.

15 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

In terms of GTAO it most certainly is pay to win

I don't think that there is a clear enough end game in either GTAO or RDO to successfully label them as P2W. A player Yan certainly create a situational advantage with real money, but that is separate from being able to "win" either game.

17 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Pit a rank 1 against a rank 500 player in a Deluxo or Khanjali and tell me how it worked out.

A level 1 shouldn't stand a chance against a level 500. The level 500 will have put hundreds of hours into the game in order to achieve that level, whereas the level 1 would have been playing for literally minutes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see R*, and especially T2, taken to task over microtransactions, but I don't think this bill could facilitate such an event.

[Jason]

2 hours ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

I'd be extremely surprised if anyone managed to successfully, legally, argue that R* targets under age players with GTAO and RDO. We all know under age players play these games, but I'm certain R* could argue that the develope mature rated games and can't be held accountable for parental discretion.

The bill is actually targeting games where developers willingly know they still mtx to kids, even if the game is rated mature or 18+. GTAO could well be effected.

 

There's no reason why cosmetic only mtx will be effected though, there's definitely forms of cosmetic mtx and progression where players will feel the need to skip the time grinding to buy those skins but there's also easily ways around it, like say what Fortnite BR does. If you can't earn the cosmetics they are selling on the store in-game then it's literally no different than say selling a DLC expansion or something. This is what I wanted from RDO in the first place as it means the progression wouldn't get tainted by microtransactions. If this bill passes things like battlepasses and premium cosmetic stores will become standard I think.

[CosmicBuffalo]

I will chime in and say, its doesnt matter that the game is rated such and such, thats a rating for the content such as violence, nudity, bad language....its not rated for addictive/vice behaviors.  Which I guess some would argue video games are by nature addictive, but these new revenue methods are being compared to actual gambling, not simulated which is what the M rating actually covers. This was ineviatbly going to let the slippery slope of government into regulating games...and all of us, makers and players, can blame no one but ourselves.  Makers continued to push addictive skip grind for cash.  Players continued to play these games when they were "winning" at them.  Governments have been trying to regulate game content for years, but the rating system and free speech has held govts at bay.  Now the vice/predatotry practices of these microtransactions will finally get govt in to get a bigger slice of the pie and more of a say on what is actually delivered...whoopee.  

Edited May 11, 2019 by GenericGTAO

[ALifeOfMisery]

51 minutes ago, Jason said:

The bill is actually targeting games where developers willingly know they still mtx to kids, even if the game is rated mature or 18+. GTAO could well be effected.

 

There's no reason why cosmetic only mtx will be effected though, there's definitely forms of cosmetic mtx and progression where players will feel the need to skip the time grinding to buy those skins but there's also easily ways around it, like say what Fortnite BR does. If you can't earn the cosmetics they are selling on the store in-game then it's literally no different than say selling a DLC expansion or something. This is what I wanted from RDO in the first place as it means the progression wouldn't get tainted by microtransactions. If this bill passes things like battlepasses and premium cosmetic stores will become standard I think.

Oh, I definitely think it could be targeted, without a doubt, and if it is, it could well be effected. It's whether any action would be successful that I have doubts about. 

 

I completely agree that things like battlepasses and premium cosmetic stores could become standard should the bill pass, it makes sense that publishers would take things in that direction. 

[Hetraet]

I hope that the new bill turns things at R* around. This anti consumer bs they've been pulling off has really ruined my respect for them. It's all the benzless factor... it was all going good until they forced him out of the company to be free to make this mtx hell. I think that Benzies is out there laughing at R* rn. It's just sad that greed is slowly ruining this once great company. 

[Ghoffman9]

12 hours ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

I'd be extremely surprised if anyone managed to successfully, legally, argue that R* targets under age players with GTAO and RDO. We all know under age players play these games, but I'm certain R* could argue that the develope mature rated games and can't be held accountable for parental discretion.

Wrong, in the bill it explicitly states that it will include games up to the mature rating that kids play, and the developers being well aware of that fact. Rockstar is well aware that young kids plays these games, which would make them a target for this bill. If kids are playing a mature game with such practices, and the developers know it and let it happen, they are not safe from this bill. Regardless of the age rating.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Ghoffman9

[CMCSAVAGE]

39 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Wrong, in the bill it explicitly states that it will include games up to the mature rating that kids play, and the developers being well aware of that fact. Rockstar is well aware that young kids plays these games, which would make them a target for this bill. If kids are playing a mature game with such practices, and the developers know it and let it happen, they are not safe from this bill. Regardless of the age rating.

 

Target for what, and what practices? Where's the Loot Boxes and Pay To Win in GTAO or RDO? There is none. That's what the bill is about. 

 

Even if the bill passes, there's no way to really enforce it. Any 10 year year old can make a PSN, XBOX or Steam account and make themselves an adult with whatever date of birth they choose. The same 10 year old can walk into any store and buy a PSN, XBOX or Steam Card and put money on their account.

[Jason]

It'll be enforced by banning it. Go look at what counties like Belgium are doing in regards to lootboxes in particular, games with lootboxes in that country have completely stopped lootboxes from being sold there.

[Ghoffman9]

2 hours ago, CMCSAVAGE said:

 

Target for what, and what practices? Where's the Loot Boxes and Pay To Win in GTAO or RDO? There is none. That's what the bill is about. 

 

Even if the bill passes, there's no way to really enforce it. Any 10 year year old can make a PSN, XBOX or Steam account and make themselves an adult with whatever date of birth they choose. The same 10 year old can walk into any store and buy a PSN, XBOX or Steam Card and put money on their account.

Practices that inhibit progression to encourage micro-transaction purchases. You don't think being being given percentages of a single bar in the 0.00 margin as throttling. How the game gives you rewards based on how long it takes, forcing players to wait for as long as twenty or so minutes to get a decent reward per mission? How players stay near the drop off point for stranger missions seconds before the timer is up? Here I will give you a quote:

 

"Pay-to-Win: Manipulation of a game’s progression system – typically by building artificial difficulty or other barriers into game progression – to induce players to spend money on microtransactions to advance through content supposedly available to them at no additional cost"

 

That sound familiar to you? Strauss Zelnic better be sleeping with one eye open, his time is coming.

The bill could force Rockstar to shut off this system and replace it with something else that is not so psychologically manipulative and insidious. Just like what EA had to do when Belgium put the hammer down on them.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Ghoffman9

[Hetraet]

I think the bill will go way beyond loot boxes, btw microtransactions in RDO and GTAO are pretty much P2W by making the money/gold very hard to obtain. If the bill doesn't target R* games and their anti consumer mtx strategies then we lost. I'd write down a lot of argument why it's P2W and how scummy they are with pushing us to buy gold but it has been mentioned before and I don't have the energy to repeat myself. Basically kids play this game. R* wants kids as their target audience (easy to trick to buy mtx). They release battle royale modes because they are popular with kids to attract more kids. They centre the game around PvP because it's monetizable. Kids buy gold bars to skip the endless grind. Parents credit cards are f*cked basically. Idk it just all seems pretty shady... it's the same as every other mobile game. Lootboxes work on similar basis... You can get a thing in the lootbox by playing the game or you can buy the lootbox to skip the grind, it's basically the same. I sure as sh*t hope that it affects R* and T2 because this just feels illegal to begin with. Anti consumer predatory mtx should be banned worldwide. (Any game that really pushes you to buy something outside the cosmetics to skip the grind) 

[Foxwolfe]

No one is buying gold bars to skip anything other than waiting on a rank unlock for some clothes though? You can't buy guns or horses before you rank unlock them. Now the argument that they're used to skip the grind on the currency that most of the stuff does cost (dollars) is valid but not the same thing as pay to win.

 

I agree that the mtx are sh*tty and need to go but the way R* is doing it is likely rather deliberate to sidestep the kind of things this bill is targeting.

[CMCSAVAGE]

3 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Absolutely nothing.

 

Give it rest already for f*cks sake.  All you do is bicker back and forth with anyone that doesn't agree with your opinion. 

[ALifeOfMisery]

7 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Wrong

 

18 hours ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

I'd be extremely surprised if anyone managed to successfully, legally, argue that R* targets under age players with GTAO and RDO.

Nowhere have I stated that R* won't or can't be targeted or that any action that may be taken against them wouldn't be successful.

 

I've said I'd be extremely surprised if anything was successful, which I would be. 

 

I'm not arguing with you, aside from it being pointless and disruptive, as I've said before, I'd love to see R*/T2 taken to task over microtransactions and underage players. But do I think this bill will enable that? I'm not so sure.