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Jason

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I definitely feel like I'm in the minority when I couldn't care less about the specs between the two consoles. Buying a new console always comes down to which one will have the games I want to play, and that will certainly remain the PS.

 

The backwards compatibility is absolutely stupid, however. Unless I heard it wrong not all PS4 games will be immediately available to play, meanwhile the XBox will have all their previous generations of games.

 

A rival to the Game Pass is also desperately needed in the next generation, because PS Now is absolutely dire.

 

At this point the launch titles are what I'm most interested in, as I'd like to see whether this thing is worth buying right off the bat.

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2 hours ago, Laker23 said:

At this point the launch titles are what I'm most interested in, as I'd like to see whether this thing is worth buying right off the bat.

Mhm. Traditionally launch titles are pretty weak as well though Microsoft has the new Halo announced already but thus far Sony have remained quiet. If they can start rattling out sequels to their PS4 greatest hits early into the gen then that's gonna be huge for Sony as I'm guessing we are still probably 2-3 years away from the entirety of Microsoft's 1st party to be firing on all cylinders.

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Adam Jensen

This is an interesting article

 

 

Much has already been said about how Sony's custom, super fast SSD could be a real game changer, with developers in particular expressing real excitement over the PlayStation 5 hardware. But with Mark Cerny's dry deep dive presentation, it's clear that Sony made a mistake -- at least from a marketing perspective. And interestingly, it's not just fans like ourselves that have expressed concern over this.

On the latest episode of the Kotaku Splitscreen podcast, ever-reliable industry source and Kotaku news editor Jason Schreier shares what he's heard from various people in the know. The quotes provide some interesting insight into what developers are thinking with regards to the PS5 and the aforementioned deep dive video.

The overarching theme here is that these devs sound seriously impressed with Sony's next-gen system, but the messaging is disappointingly stunted right now. Schreier begins: "So what I'm hearing from the people who are actually working on these [next-gen consoles] is that the Xbox Series X is not significantly more powerful than the PS5, despite this teraflops number. Teraflops might be a useful measure of comparison in some ways, but ultimately it's a theoretical max speed."

"The stuff I'm hearing from developers is very different from what I'm seeing in Sony's marketing strategy," Schreier adds.

"I'm getting texts and DMs from developers being like, this is such a shame, the PS5 is so superior in all these other ways that they're not actually able to message right now, or can't talk about right now. I heard from at least three different people, since the Cerny thing, that the PS5 is actually the superior piece of hardware in a lot of different ways despite what we're seeing in these spec sheets."

As Schreier goes on to say, there's still a lot of time for Sony to rework and correct its messaging. We're still around eight months from the PS5's launch -- unless it gets delayed -- and there's obviously a lot more ground to cover in terms of games, price, design, controllers... It's not like the PlayStation maker has nothing more to say.

In any case, it'll be fascinating to see what Sony has planned, especially when the actual hardware appears to have people within the industry so excited. Hopefully we hear more soon.

Edited by DareYokel
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Yea I've been reading into it too, if the spec list is indeed highly misleading and the power gap between the two consoles is not as big as thought (or non-existent, or even if the PS5 tops it in some way) then Sony need to start opening up cause right now talk around the internet is that the Xbox Series X is the most powerful out of the two and with the Xbox also having full backward compat with Xbox One + supported games from the OG Xbox and 360 compared to Sony's "top 100" confusion... Sony need to start getting in front of their fans and answering questions.

 

So far it's a trainwreck on Xbox One reveal levels and the result of that was Xbox went from being most popular console to being the 30 in a 70/30 split.

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Ivan1997GTA
9 hours ago, Laker23 said:

The backwards compatibility is absolutely stupid, however. Unless I heard it wrong not all PS4 games will be immediately available to play, meanwhile the XBox will have all their previous generations of games.

Sony are shooting themselves in the foot with this statement, like how the 60 GB PS3 costed $599 at launch. Where's the backwards compatibility for PS1, PS2 and PS3 games (and none of that PSNow BS)? I hope they'll include it in an update.

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Mister Pink
8 hours ago, Ivan1997GTA said:

Sony are shooting themselves in the foot with this statement, like how the 60 GB PS3 costed $599 at launch. Where's the backwards compatibility for PS1, PS2 and PS3 games (and none of that PSNow BS)? I hope they'll include it in an update.

I hear what you are saying buddy but it may not be that bad. As you know yourself on the Xbox One, backwards compatibility library as always growing. They never had the full library at launch. Nobody really complained about it, they were just happy to get it.  Although some games, just never made it unfortunately. But yeah, the older generations not being present might be a disappointment to some. Having said that, at least people's physical PS4 libraries aren't going become irrelevant. 

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The backwards compat stuff is just confusing from Sony's POV. "Top 100 by playtime were all tested and worked", or something along those lines. The top 100 could be 10 versions of Call of Duty, all Battlefield's, all Battlefronts, Fortnite, Rainbow... ya know where I'm going. I'm sure all their big first party stuff works day 1 but the vagueness is hurting them where as MS have definitively stated that all Xbox One games work day 1 with support for select 360 and OG Xbox games.

 

I expect they'll rattle through the list of PS4 games and get most/all of them working over time but yea. They just gotta get in front of this wave of confusion and apparent disinformation about the power difference.

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So either they've backtracked and stepped up their BC work or that Cerny video really was a complete trainwreck for them.

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GTA3Rockstar
1 hour ago, Hideo Kojima said:

 

"Lastly, we’re excited to confirm that the backwards compatibility features are working well. We recently took a look at the top 100 PS4 titles as ranked by play time, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PS5."

 

Sounds to me like there won't be more than the top 100 games available at launch, if that.

 

 

 

46 minutes ago, Jason said:

So either they've backtracked and stepped up their BC work or that Cerny video really was a complete trainwreck for them.

 

TBH, Sony has dropped the ball on all of this, just as much as Xbox did in 2013. I think they were completely caught off guard by how powerful the SX will be.

 

 It sounds completely like they boosted it as much as possible just so they could get double digits. lol

 

We don't even know what it looks like lol

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesX/comments/flqfm8/interesting_comments_from_someone_in_the_dev/

 

You can take that with a grain of salt, too.

 

 

 

 

The facts are, Xbox will have every game that's currently playable; from the OG, 360 and One, playable at launch. This also includes that every one of them will be boosted by the Velocity Arcitechture that's in the SX.

 

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-x

 

Quote

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Games play even better

Through the revolutionary new Xbox Velocity Architecture, thousands of games on Xbox One, including Xbox 360 and original Xbox Games, will experience improvements in performance, including improved boot and load times, more stable frame rates, higher resolutions and improved quality on Xbox Series X

 

 

Yeah, playstation has good exclusives but damn, they really are pulling a Xbox 2013.

 

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Oh thank f*ck. They better be Backwards compatible.

Edited by Zello
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TheSantader25

I honestly don't give a f*ck about current gen backward compatibility. The 6th and 7th generations are much more important to me. 

Edited by TheSantader25
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On 3/20/2020 at 9:03 PM, GTA3Rockstar said:

 

 

 

 

Yeah, playstation has good exclusives but damn, they really are pulling a Xbox 2013.

 

 

Nah, the Xbox 2013 f*ckup is still on a whole other level. 

 

So far the biggest missteps of Sony are: 

 

1) The incredible lack of marketing towards it audience

2) The vague messaging regarding BC with PS4 (this console should really be able to play the majority of the PS4 games, no ifs and buts around it)

 

If they can fix these things then the only thing left will be the price. Make sure it's a (bit) cheaper than the XSX and we have a winner again. Quality exclusives at launch would be the icing on the cake. 

Edited by Turan
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  • 2 weeks later...
GTA3Rockstar
On 3/21/2020 at 1:20 PM, Turan said:

 

Nah, the Xbox 2013 f*ckup is still on a whole other level. 

 

 

 

 

 

You can take this with a grain of salt but it seems very plausible that there are some issues.

Edited by GTA3Rockstar

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They've been in this mess since Shawn Layden left probably before that.

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3 hours ago, GTA3Rockstar said:

 

 

 

 

You can take this with a grain of salt but it seems very plausible that there are some issues.


Wow. Not only is that the most blatant concern trolling I’ve ever seen from a console warrior, on top of that Jason Schreier also shot him down faster than he could say Xbox lol. 

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3 hours ago, Zello said:

They've been in this mess since Shawn Layden left probably before that.

2016 - 2017 they were absolutely on top of their game but suddenly seemed to go down hill. PlayStation at E3 2016 was probably the best one in recent memory. How the hell can you go from that to where they are now I don't know. It's not a lack of exclusives, maybe it's them not doing the conferences anymore or just bad marketing decisions.

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GTA3Rockstar
17 hours ago, Turan said:


Wow. Not only is that the most blatant concern trolling I’ve ever seen from a console warrior, on top of that Jason Schreier also shot him down faster than he could say Xbox lol. 

 

I find it very weird we don't know what it looks like.

 

I think they were gonna show it but once they knew the XSX was more powerful, they boosted the console - 9TF rumor and got 10.2 - thus creating more heat.

 

So maybe it's true and it now has some heating issues, needing to change the design some to prevent it.

 

Idk, speculations; we'll see.

 

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Jason Schreier's word is always well informed, but it's not gospel.

 

That aint the first time I've heard about potential issues with cooling in particular, I was hearing concerns about it the moment the spec lists came out. It could all be nonsense but sometimes there aint smoke without fire. It's definitely true that Sony are being and continue to be very coy about the PS5, you'd think they wouldn't repeat the same mistakes they made with the PS3 shenanigans but I would also agree that Sony haven't been at the top of their game in recent years. Pumped out some great games but that is honestly about it.

 

If you were to be very cynical about it you could suggest that they are expecting the reputation of their 1st party studios and IP's to carry the PS5 launch, as so far that seems to be the only plan they have. I wouldn't buy it right now as they absolutely deserve the benefit of doubt at this point but they gotta start actually talking to the fans sooner rather than later. Their silence is the reason for the, as of now, conspiracy theories.

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Mark Cerny: "As for the details of the cooling solution, we're saving them for our teardown, I think you'll be quite happy with what the engineering team came up with."

 

I don't understand how anyone can be pessimistic regarding the cooling when the lead engineer himself said this. If anything this should give you a reason to not worry about it overheating. And from what I've seen this whole overheating discussion seems to have been started by people with fanatic Xbox history a.k.a. people whose thoughts aren't worth sh*t when it comes to the PS5. It is just pure FUD. 

 

But I do agree that Sony themselves need to hurry up and show off the PS5 already, even if it only means not giving those people the chance to "speculate". I remember the PS4 being shown off at E3 alongside the Xbox One. But this time Microsoft acted early and showed everything about the new Xbox. So now Sony has to adapt. Do they wait until summer again or do they show it now? I prefer they did it now/soon. 

Edited by Turan
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It's very easy to say something. It's not as if Microsoft were saying "oh btw the 360 has major hardware problems" when that launched was it? Regarding dismissing the talk about cooling cause it supposedly comes from people with a history with MS, I mean you just said there's no reason to believe it because Mark Cerny said so lol. Not only that, a lot of the very high praise over the PS5 hardware after the Cerny deep dive was from PlayStation peeps gushing over the hardware. Tinfoil hat people could say there was an element of damage control in there, but that is very tinfoil hatty right now.

 

The difference between MS and Sony with how they've handled next-gen so far is that Microsoft are doing show and tell where as Sony are just doing tell. We'll have to wait and see what is true and what is not but yea like I said, the reason for the conspiracy theories right now is because Sony haven't shown anyone anything and have just done a lot of talking. There's no reason to outright disbelieve them on what they're saying but there's not exactly reason to believe them either. We need people to get hands on time with the hardware to see whats what, it's no different than waiting for game reviews etc.

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8 minutes ago, Jason said:

It's very easy to say something. It's not as if Microsoft were saying "oh btw the 360 has major hardware problems" when that launched was it? Regarding dismissing the talk about cooling cause it supposedly comes from people with a history with MS, I mean you just said there's no reason to believe it because Mark Cerny said so lol. Not only that, a lot of the very high praise over the PS5 hardware after the Cerny deep dive was from PlayStation peeps gushing over the hardware. Tinfoil hat people could say there was an element of damage control in there, but that is very tinfoil hatty right now.

 

The difference between MS and Sony with how they've handled next-gen so far is that Microsoft are doing show and tell where as Sony are just doing tell. We'll have to wait and see what is true and what is not but yea like I said, the reason for the conspiracy theories right now is because Sony haven't shown anyone anything and have just done a lot of talking. There's no reason to outright disbelieve them on what they're saying but there's not exactly reason to believe them either. We need people to get hands on time with the hardware to see whats what, it's no different than waiting for game reviews etc.

 

The correct stance at this time would be to stay neutral regarding the PS5. There is nothing to suggest that PS5 will have hardware issues. Not even the fact that Sony hasn't shown the console yet. Because like I said, Sony is doing roughly the same thing they did with the PS4. They wait for E3 (in this case until June). It is Xbox that decided to change things up and reveal things early. That doesn't mean Sony is in trouble or panicking, it just means they stick to their original plan. 

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There is nothing to suggest that the PS5 will have hardware issues... other than reports of them having problems. The correct stance is to not take that information as gospel by any means, but there is nothing wrong speculating and discussion the possibility of those reports being true.

 

By this point in the PS4's pre-launch period we also had the big PS4 event that revealed features and showed games running on the platform. I'd also not really say that Sony is sticking to their original plan, the timing of the Cerny video seemed very "oh sh*t we need to get something out ASAP" after Xbox did their reveal of the specs and hardware.

 

My worry for Sony going into next gen for a while has been that they'd do a PS3, win the generation by a landslide and get over confident and do something stupid. I'm not convinced this is happening just yet but things like dumb comments from Sony high ups regarding things like crossplatform multiplayer, progression and backwards compatibility in recent years haven't helped that worry. The Cerny presentation also asked more questions than answered them, it's a pretty poor sign for their messaging thus far that they've had to clarify things since as they weren't well explained or were too vague in the video. They're going to need to come up with something now that E3 has been canned as again, they really need to start talking to fans and telling us why we should get a PS5 because if they're relying on "we have the best 1st party games", yes that's a nice ace up the sleeve but consoles are much more than 1st party games these days.

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3 hours ago, Jason said:

There is nothing to suggest that the PS5 will have hardware issues... other than reports of them having problems. The correct stance is to not take that information as gospel by any means, but there is nothing wrong speculating and discussion the possibility of those reports being true.

If the reports are reliable then by all means, discuss and speculate to your hearts content. I'd even join it. But those "reports" are all from VERY dubious sources. On top of that, actual reliable sources are saying it is bullsh*t. So what is left to discuss then? I just don't think it is worth it. 

 

3 hours ago, Jason said:

By this point in the PS4's pre-launch period we also had the big PS4 event that revealed features and showed games running on the platform. I'd also not really say that Sony is sticking to their original plan, the timing of the Cerny video seemed very "oh sh*t we need to get something out ASAP" after Xbox did their reveal of the specs and hardware.

No, that is not true. The Deep Dive talk of Cerny was meant for GDC. Since that didn't go through they put it online via livestream (not the way I would've done it but oh well). It had absolutely nothing to do with the early Xbox reveal. In 2013 they did the same with PS4. 

 

3 hours ago, Jason said:

 

My worry for Sony going into next gen for a while has been that they'd do a PS3, win the generation by a landslide and get over confident and do something stupid. I'm not convinced this is happening just yet but things like dumb comments from Sony high ups regarding things like crossplatform multiplayer, progression and backwards compatibility in recent years haven't helped that worry. The Cerny presentation also asked more questions than answered them, it's a pretty poor sign for their messaging thus far that they've had to clarify things since as they weren't well explained or were too vague in the video. They're going to need to come up with something now that E3 has been canned as again, they really need to start talking to fans and telling us why we should get a PS5 because if they're relying on "we have the best 1st party games", yes that's a nice ace up the sleeve but consoles are much more than 1st party games these days.

Yes, the messaging is definitely lacking. We agree on that. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Turan said:

No, that is not true. The Deep Dive talk of Cerny was meant for GDC. Since that didn't go through they put it online via livestream (not the way I would've done it but oh well). It had absolutely nothing to do with the early Xbox reveal. In 2013 they did the same with PS4. 

Even if thats true and it was meant for GDC, the results wouldve been the same, with MS giving a full hands on/breakdown of XSX, and Cerny rambling for half the presentation about Tempest and ear profiles.

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1 minute ago, Static said:

Even if thats true and it was meant for GDC, the results wouldve been the same, with MS giving a full hands on/breakdown of XSX, and Cerny rambling for half the presentation about Tempest and ear profiles.

Yes, which is why I agree on their messaging not being good. They should've changed their plan after seeing the Xbox reveal. 

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A bit off topic, but I'm mostly curious to see the numbers of players who ditch consoles altogether this gen. With each system using the same cpu and gpu architecture and inching closer and closer to being full on pcs (which, lets not kid ourselves, this upcoming gen are) and with the fact that both MS and Sony exclusives coming to pc in one way or another, what exactly is keeping anyone on consoles at this point? I suppose you could argue initial price being lower, though you could build a pc with similar specs at a similar price, especially a few months after both systems launch, seeing how Zen 3 and RDNA2 should be at the very least announced if not fully released by holiday season 2020. And then I suppose there is something to say for the "plug-n-play" aspect of consoles, but even that doesnt hold too much water, since you can just as easily buy a prebuilt, albeit at a premium.

 

tldr; I'm not seeing a whole lot of reason to pick either one over the other, or even both.  

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Yea it's an interesting topic tbh. Sony I think are still going to be a bit slow with their exclusives coming to PC and I don't think they'll be releasing all of them (I don't expect TLOU2 or God of War anytime soon at least) but obviously MS are full swing into this stuff.

 

Personally I still buy a console cause friends play and cross platform stuff isn't quite there yet to really enable me on PC to play with them on whatever game and use things like party chat but we do look to be getting to the point where you aren't picking what box you're buying but what service. Xbox w/ Games Pass and xCloud, Sony with PS Now or Google with a steaming pile of poo. Nintendo are still very traditional still and that's working well for them but there's long been whispers of them potentially one day getting out of the hardware market.

 

I think out of the big three MS are the most forward thinking and looking to get ahead of the seemingly inevitable changes to console generations and how we view consoles in general so they are ready when the customers are but their approach to PC may hurt sales of the Xbox consoles in the short term. I'm guessing they're comfortable with this if it means you're buying your games on PC or using thngs like Games Pass PC though.

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