"Well, maybe when your mother is finished mourning your father, i'll keep her in black...on your behalf" discussion.

[RyuNova]

This line has always made me wonder the meaning behind it. I see it as either of two meanings.

The commonly accepted one that he is threatening to kill him and thus keep his mother "in black" meaning her funeral clothes or the way I see it, hes threatening to absolve the mother of the debt thus putting her "in black" (Black is neutral credit and red is bad credit) and pass the debt to the son who will then be the one that gets the threats and beatings until he pays.

 

Thoughts?

Edited March 20, 2019 by RyuNova

[Jimbatron]

Interesting suggestion but I reckon he’s implying he could kill the lad.

 

The phrase is “keep her in black”, and credit wise she currently isn’t, but she is mourning her husband.

[HeyThereFriend]

He definitely meant it as a threat at the time. Whenever he did those money lending missions, he wasn't being his true self. He was playing a part in order to get the money.

 

However it was actually pretty cool foreshadowing because while it wasn't meant as he'd absolve the debt, that's exactly what he did.

Edited March 20, 2019 by HeyThereFriend

[RyuNova]

16 minutes ago, Jimbatron said:

Interesting suggestion but I reckon he’s implying he could kill the lad.

 

The phrase is “keep her in black”, and credit wise she currently isn’t, but she is mourning her husband.

 

If the fathers debt was passed onto the Son then she would be "in black"

[Jimbatron]

56 minutes ago, RyuNova said:

 

If the fathers debt was passed onto the Son then she would be "in black"

True. My gut though is that @HeyThereFriend has it right above. It’s an implied threat of violence but you’re right that retrospectively it could be taken to have a different meaning. The writers like a bit of irony.

 

On a slightly different note under the same thing I was doing a replay to get “gold rush” and I noticed John say to Arthur “I owe you” and Arthur reply “and you’ll pay me”. Personally I have my own theory about this - from the writers perspective I don’t think it’s an idle remark.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Jimbatron

[Dan390]

1 hour ago, HeyThereFriend said:

He definitely meant it as a threat at the time. Whenever he did those money lending missions, he wasn't being his true self. He was playing a part in order to get the money.

 

However it was actually pretty cool foreshadowing because while it wasn't meant as he'd absolve the debt, that's exactly what he did.

He didn't absolve the debt, she walks into Horseshoe Overlook and pays Strauss the debt, I am on my 4th play through and just saw this yesterday for the first time

[RyuNova]

2 hours ago, Jimbatron said:

True. My gut though is that @HeyThereFriend has it right above. It’s an implied threat of violence but you’re right that retrospectively it could be taken to have a different meaning. The writers like a bit of irony.

 

 

I feel its Arthurs way of saying "If you wanna act like a man (acting tough) then I will treat you like the man of the house and your fathers debt becomes yours"

[Jimbatron]

33 minutes ago, RyuNova said:

 

I feel its Arthurs way of saying "If you wanna act like a man (acting tough) then I will treat you like the man of the house and your fathers debt becomes yours"

Yes I agree that he’s trying to intimidate the lad although I don’t think he would have actually harmed him whatever the subtext behind what he says. It didn’t come across as Arthur’s way to hurt people weaker than him (not badly anyway, might slap them around a bit to show them who’s boss - not trying to to say that’s ok by today’s standards but how a lot of people lived in the 19th century)

[Smokewood]

 

This line has always made me wonder the meaning behind it. I see it as either of two meanings.

The commonly accepted one that he is threatening to kill him and thus keep his mother "in black" meaning her funeral clothes or the way I see it, hes threatening to absolve the mother of the debt thus putting her "in black" (Black is neutral credit and red is bad credit) and pass the debt to the son who will then be the one that gets the threats and beatings until he pays.

 

Thoughts?

I thought it meant he was going to pimp his mother out so that she would not go back into debt. It's a tongue in check expression. She won't be in debt anymore but she'll be my whore that I get to rent out to every dick in town.

 

Arthur was an evil bastard. 

[Cutter De Blanc]

Doing a short google search indicates that the term "in the black" seemed to originate in the early 1900's

 

So, no. I'd say it was a threat.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Cutter De Blanc

[RyuNova]

 

Doing a short google search indicates that the term "in the black" seemed to originate in the early 1900's

 

So, no. I'd say it was a threat.

 

I don't mean to be pretentious but...

*pushes up nerd glasses*

 

...I doubt that thats the issue.

[EZ Brasi]

What he's saying is, his mother is already in mourning. (Fathers dead, she's wearing black, funeral etc). If the kid keeps itnuo, she's going to keep eating black on his behalf. (Basically she's going to his funeral next.) 

 

Hands down my favorite line in the game, and I dare you to name a colder moment. That's something only be killer would say. 

 

What he's saying is, his mother is already in mourning. (Fathers dead, she's wearing black, funeral etc). If the kid keeps it up, she's going to be wearing black on his behalf. (Basically she's going to his funeral next.) 

 

Hands down my favorite line in the game, and I dare you to name a colder moment. That's something only a killer would say. 

 

[Gray-Hand]

 

This line has always made me wonder the meaning behind it. I see it as either of two meanings.

The commonly accepted one that he is threatening to kill him and thus keep his mother "in black" meaning her funeral clothes or the way I see it, hes threatening to absolve the mother of the debt thus putting her "in black" (Black is neutral credit and red is bad credit) and pass the debt to the son who will then be the one that gets the threats and beatings until he pays.

 

Thoughts?

Interesting theory, but Nah.

Arthur is clearly making a threat, not making a business offer.

 

 

The reference to black is clearly a reference to mourning wear.

She would keep wearing black after she was done mourning her husband because Arthur would kill her son and she would have to go into mourning again.  

 

It’s a clear threat and delivered as such.

If Arthur was offering the son the opportunity to take over the debt (probably a decision for Strauss), why would he make the offer as if he was delivering a threat?

 

[RyuNova]

 

Interesting theory, but Nah.

Arthur is clearly making a threat, not making a business offer.

 

 

The reference to black is clearly a reference to mourning wear.

She would keep wearing black after she was done mourning her husband because Arthur would kill her son and she would have to go into mourning again.  

 

It’s a clear threat and delivered as such.

If Arthur was offering the son the opportunity to take over the debt (probably a decision for Strauss), why would he make the offer as if he was delivering a threat?

 

 

Because it is a threat. Both are threats. One is threatening to kill him for being rude and the other is threatening to put the debt and all the weight that brings (Beatings, being hunted down for money etc) on him and him alone. Its all good and well him acting hard when its his mother that has to pay but would he be as hard when its him getting beatings.

[Ryancoke66]

 

Hands down my favorite line in the game, and I dare you to name a colder moment. That's something only be killer would say. 

 

Arguably, another savage scene is where Arthur is waiting outside the St. Denis barn while Mary Linton goes in to check on her dad. The stable boy tries to intimidate Arthur into not standing there but Arthur responds (after giving the boy a good slap) "I'm waiting on a fine lady inside. If I wasn't, I'd have killed you already, but if you continue to irritate me I'll kill you anyway and make my apologies to the lady" 

 

OT: I personally think it was a threat. You have an interesting perspective though - I just don't think Arthur was smart enough to come up with that kinda innuendo in a threat.

[RyuNova]

5 hours ago, Ryancoke66 said:

Arguably, another savage scene is where Arthur is waiting outside the St. Denis barn while Mary Linton goes in to check on her dad. The stable boy tries to intimidate Arthur into not standing there but Arthur responds (after giving the boy a good slap) "I'm waiting on a fine lady inside. If I wasn't, I'd have killed you already, but if you continue to irritate me I'll kill you anyway and make my apologies to the lady" 

 

OT: I personally think it was a threat. You have an interesting perspective though - I just don't think Arthur was smart enough to come up with that kinda innuendo in a threat.

 

I could talk about that scene all day. Its a perfect example of how to control a person and situation.

Arthur is smarter than he makes out he is. Vastly smarter.

[Smokewood]

2 hours ago, RyuNova said:

 

I could talk about that scene all day. Its a perfect example of how to control a person and situation.

Arthur is smarter than he makes out he is. Vastly smarter.

Yet no one is talking about how the son didn't bat an eye and was ready to take on Arthur.

He called Arthur's bluff....

[Ryancoke66]

^ the stableboy looked pretty shook when Arthur slapped him across the face lol I wouldn't say he called Arthur's bluff, in fact I don't think Arthur was bluffing at all, I really think he'd blow him away for irritating him while he's dealing with some personal buisness. 

 

Edit: unless you were referring to the "keep your mother dressed in black on your behalf" boy?

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Ryancoke66

[Gray-Hand]

11 hours ago, Smokewood said:

Yet no one is talking about how the son didn't bat an eye and was ready to take on Arthur.

He called Arthur's bluff....

I don’t know about that.  

He talked tough to Arthur.

Arthur came back at him with a threat Liam Neeson would be proud of.

He shut up.

 

If anything, Arthur called his bluff.

[lol232]

He meant he's going to kill him too so that his mother can keep mourning him and keep wearing black.

Edited March 24, 2019 by lol232

[Easyboah]

I've played the game, currently on my second Playthrough and since the beating that Thomas Downed received from Arthur caused his early death before he was expected by his family to die, it's definitely a threat towards Archie.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Easyboah

[HorTyS]

I think when you know the context in which the quote is said, Arthur collecting a debt from the wife of the dead man who owed it, there is no question it is a threat. "Maybe when your mother is finished mourning your father, I'll KEEP her in black, on your behalf."  He is threatening to keep her in mourning by killing her son, that is undeniably the threat being made.  Edith hadn't given him the debt at that moment, so at the time, according to the theory being suggested by OP, she was in the red.  

Edited August 27, 2019 by HorTyS

[UnexpectedParole]

5 hours ago, HorTyS said:

I think when you know the context in which the quote is said, Arthur collecting a debt from the wife of the dead man who owed it, there is no question it is a threat. "Maybe when your mother is finished mourning your father, I'll KEEP her in black, on your behalf."  He is threatening to keep her in mourning by killing her son, that is undeniably the threat being made.  Edith hadn't given him the debt at that moment, so at the time, according to the theory being suggested by OP, she was in the red.  

 

I came here because of the new response, and while reading the thread I came to this conclusion as well. Keep is the imperative clue here.

 

Arthur is threatening to Keep her in black, which is a death threat to the boy. Arthur is not threatening to put her in the black by moving the debt to the boy.

 

She was in the red because she didn't come to Horseshoe overlook to pay off the debt, she came to inform Strauss that Downes was dead, make a small payment and assume/acknowledge the debt herself.

[RileyRock]

I think Arthur kill him and her mother will be in black. Mourning her son.

Simple lol