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OurJud

Offline bots for console games like BF?

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OurJud

I can pretty much guess what the majority of replies will be to this, and most of them probably from the hardcore online MP community, but I've been watching a lot of Squad and Post Scriptum gameplay lately and must admit to feeling more than a little envious - not of PC players per se - but of online milsims in general.

 

Thing is, and for many varying reasons, many gamers don't/can't play online. In my case it's a combination of being too crap to compete (I would die every 3 seconds against human opponents), not being able to afford a regular PS+ account, and simply preferring the stress-free aspects of playing offline.

 

To that end I wonder why developers of, for example, first-person shooters, don't include options beyond the campaign that mimic these MP battles, but with bots instead of other humans.

 

I'm sure it's been done, although I can't think of any examples right now other than a few side levels offered with one of the Metro Redux games. I'm also pretty sure Killzone 3 offered precisely the kind of offline bot battles I'm talking about.

 

It would be wonderful for people like me, to have options beyond the campaign, where I can choose from a series of maps, weather conditions, objectives, time of day, number of bots, skill levels etc etc etc. Yes the AI in most of these cases is laughable, and such a mode would never replicate or offer the same kind of buzz as playing against other humans, but it would be something at least.

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D9fred95

Black Ops had bots for multiplayer. I read many PS3 users had a field day with them during the PSN outage.

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, D9fred95 said:

Black Ops had bots for multiplayer. I read many PS3 users had a field day with them during the PSN outage.

But was that offline?

 

It doesn't have to be offline as such, as I do have internet connection for updating games and the PS4 itself, but just an option that doesn't require a PS+ account.

 

I wouldn't even mind if the entire game was void of a campaign and instead gave us one giant, open world in which we could set-up various battles, objectives etc.

Edited by OurJud

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D9fred95
7 minutes ago, OurJud said:

But was that offline?

 

It doesn't have to be offline as such, as I do have internet connection for updating games and the PS4 itself, but just an option that doesn't require a PS+ account.

 

I wouldn't even mind if the entire game was void of a campaign and instead gave us one giant, open world in which we could set-up various battles, objectives etc.

Yeah, it was offline.

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Jason

They used to be standard in all MP games yonks ago but they've all but died out mainly for two reasons, the rise of online MP (obviously lol) and the fact that by modern standards bots are generally f*cking useless. Bot difficulty generally comes down to making them cheat at higher levels rather than making them play smart.

 

Modern console games with bots are rare. I think Overwatch had a co-op mode where you played against bots, but it was with other human players (so online being required). Beyond that though I'm drawing blanks. I think the old Rainbow Six Vegas games might have bots in offline play but I'm not 100% on that.

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Jason said:

[...] and the fact that by modern standards bots are generally f*cking useless. Bot difficulty generally comes down to making them cheat at higher levels rather than making them play smart.

 

I can see that, but I still suspect there's a market for such a game - even if it's a niche one. It would also be fairly inexpensive to produce (relatively speaking); no need to employ actors, writers, or artists/animators for fancy COD-style cutscenes. Just give us a ginormous open world and a sh!t load of options and parameters for setting up tactical military battles.

 

I admit the idea for this has been born out of envy from watching Squad and Post Scriptum - which look absolutely fooking incredible (can't even guess how many hours I've spent watching a guy call Karmakut playing these games) but I reckon I have a case.

 

This guy has got eyes like a sh!it house rat, by the way! How he sees the enemy when they're so far away is beyond me. Even when he starts shooting I still can't see them!

 

 

Edited by OurJud

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Jason

If you're talking strictly PvE Ghost Recon Wildlands has a big open world and tactical elements, it's not super deep but it's not bad. If you're wanting a game where you can set up custom missions with AI then eh. AI is actually really expensive, which is another reason why bots are basically no better than they were 10-20 years ago, so you're not going to really get any sort of interesting AI from any of these types of games, you'd need to play online for something very tactical/serious.

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OurJud
2 hours ago, Jason said:

If you're talking strictly PvE Ghost Recon Wildlands has a big open world and tactical elements, it's not super deep but it's not bad. If you're wanting a game where you can set up custom missions with AI then eh. AI is actually really expensive, which is another reason why bots are basically no better than they were 10-20 years ago, so you're not going to really get any sort of interesting AI from any of these types of games, you'd need to play online for something very tactical/serious.

I like the idea of GRW, but I play exclusively first-person games as they're all I'm interested in.

 

We're in danger of going round in circles with this point now, but I can't agree with you entirely on the bot thing. I know the quality of AI varies from poor to terrible, but as I mentioned in my original post, Killzone 3 had a series of small maps in which you could battle bots, and I remember it being incredibly enjoyable. Baring in mind how long ago this was, AI can only have improved since then, and even if not it can hardly have worsened. Also remember that this mode was an extra bonus alongside the campaign. Now imagine they did something similar but dedicated the whole game to it.

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Jason
40 minutes ago, OurJud said:

Baring in mind how long ago this was, AI can only have improved since then, and even if not it can hardly have worsened.

Worsened, no, improved? You'd be surprised. AI is taxing on resources and most developers choose gameplay/visuals over it. AI has been lagging behind in gaming for a while now. RDR2 was one of the first notable big games that actually tried to push it forward a bit.

 

When it comes to bot AI in shooters, it's really not seen much change in well over a decade. No one really develops bots anymore and the time it takes to develop "good" AI bots for a competitive shooter is beyond what most indie devs can reasonably do, and almost all AAA developers don't give a rats arse about bots because of online.

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Jason said:

Worsened, no, improved? You'd be surprised. AI is taxing on resources and most developers choose gameplay/visuals over it. AI has been lagging behind in gaming for a while now. RDR2 was one of the first notable big games that actually tried to push it forward a bit.

 

When it comes to bot AI in shooters, it's really not seen much change in well over a decade. No one really develops bots anymore and the time it takes to develop "good" AI bots for a competitive shooter is beyond what most indie devs can reasonably do, and almost all AAA developers don't give a rats arse about bots because of online.

But pretty much every game that's released, when a campaign is included (thankfully SP campaigns haven't yet died the death I suspected they would a few years ago) include AI opponents. Okay, so developers may well be recycling 10 year-old AI code, but for someone like me who has never really experienced human opponents, they're sufficient. Case in point, I'm currently playing through Far Cry 5's Hour of Darkness DLC for about the sixth time and find myself utterly engrossed. I just want something similar, but on a much bigger scale and with customizable modes.

 

The closest any console game has come to the kind of thing I'm looking for is the Operation Flashpoint games. I suppose the fact that current gen console have yet to see an OF follow-up would suggest the market's not there, but they tested the waters a couple of times on last gen and I think they were fairly well received.

Edited by OurJud

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Zello

I wish GTAO had bots would make starting heists easier.

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Jason

Single player campaigns with scripted AI are a whole other ballgame compared to AI bots in a multiplayer/competitive shooter.

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CryptReaperDorian

Most of the Battlefield community doesn't want single-player campaigns. Instead, they want the offline bot mode back (with the multiplayer maps), like there used to be on the old Refractor engine games. Nah, but DICE and EA insist on keep tacking on average-at-best story campaigns (as much as I adore the Bad Company guys) just so they can create scripted explodey-explodey Michael Bay cinematics to make their trailers look pretty. Really, "enhancing" the marketing is about the only reason for the existence of these story campaigns. (Which doesn't always work when looking at the dumpster fire that was Battlefield V's reveal.)

 

The single-player mode of a strongly multiplayer-focused game should serve as a good training ground for diving into the multiplayer. Story campaigns more often than not fail at achieving this.

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, CryptReaperDorian said:

Most of the Battlefield community doesn't want single-player campaigns. Instead, they want the offline bot mode back (with the multiplayer maps), like there used to be on the old Refractor engine games.

 

Well this both surprises me and makes me hopeful. I was always of the understanding the Battlefield fraternity were only interested in online MP.

 

12 hours ago, Jason said:

Single player campaigns with scripted AI are a whole other ballgame compared to AI bots in a multiplayer/competitive shooter.

I hadn't considered it that way, but I can see what you're saying. Campaign bots go through a series of, as you say, scripted actions. MP bots would have to be programmed to think on their feet.

 

That said, MP bots have been offered in games like Killzone 3, and whatever your thoughts on their 'intelligence', it was good enough for me. Enemies that take cover and return fire is all I'm really looking for.

Edited by OurJud

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Daz

I also used to enjoy offline bots in MP modes back in the day before internet.

 

There was a 007 game, I believe it was 007 Nightfire and possibly the previous title. The actual singleplayer story I was really disappointed with, but there was a multiplayer bot mode which I spent countless hours on. As well as games like Rainbow Six Vegas, or more recently Rainbow Six Siege has modes like this that are endless fun.

 

Also Far Cry 5 has an "Arcade" mode which allows you to play user created maps (some of which are really amazing) where you can shoot bots in a specific game mode orientation, and it is themed as well so it includes blood dragon, vietnam, zombies and space assets which can really expand the replay value. The only issue I guess for you would be that you would need to be online in order to download the user created maps. Though it is worth it.

 

I would have recommended Escape From Tarkov, but I am guessing that if you can't afford PS+ you aren't going to paying for a PC good enough to run this game just to shoot bots offline, even though it is the best shooter ever made.

 

If money is not a hurdle I would advise just playing the games you really want to play despite how good you think you would be. Some of them now often don't require you to be the best shot, just smart and know the gameplay well. Often you can get satisfaction in that 1 kill that you really earned. I felt the same way, I never thought I could play with a mouse and keyboard or compete, I just liked co-op console gaming until there were games I just had to own and eventually I got comfortable with them.

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2019 at 11:26 PM, Daz said:

 

Also Far Cry 5 has an "Arcade" mode which allows you to play user created maps (some of which are really amazing) where you can shoot bots in a specific game mode orientation, and it is themed as well so it includes blood dragon, vietnam, zombies and space assets which can really expand the replay value. The only issue I guess for you would be that you would need to be online in order to download the user created maps. Though it is worth it.

 

I would have recommended Escape From Tarkov, but I am guessing that if you can't afford PS+ you aren't going to paying for a PC good enough to run this game just to shoot bots offline, even though it is the best shooter ever made.

 

 

I didn't know Far Cry 5's Arcade mode had bots. As you say, though, I'd need a PS+ account.

 

I've watched a lot of Escape From Tarkov and agree it looks amazing. However, and even though they're online MP only, I'd argue the crown of best FPS goes to either SQUAD or Post Scriptum.

 

If you haven't played them (or even watched gameplay) I'd say give them a look. A YT by the name of Karmakut post the best gameplay by far.

Edited by OurJud

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Daz

EFT has an option for offline with bots that you can edit, however it is planned to be removed when the game comes out of beta.

 

I played squad however I feel they take the hardcore a bit far to the point in which not that much happens in my games and can be hard to navigate the map on foot and have casual fun.

 

Insurgency: Sanstorm may have a bot mode I think.

 

 

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Daz said:

EFT has an option for offline with bots that you can edit, however it is planned to be removed when the game comes out of beta.

 

I played squad however I feel they take the hardcore a bit far to the point in which not that much happens in my games and can be hard to navigate the map on foot and have casual fun.

 

Insurgency: Sanstorm may have a bot mode I think.

 

 

I've watched some Insurgency gameplay and am surprised it gets tied to the milsim tag. It looks very arcadey to me - typically frantic MP stuff that I hate.

 

I'd be very keen to play EFT but unfortunately don't own a gaming PC. Not sure if this is one of the many PC FPS that is rumoured to be on its way to PS4, but from my experience these rumours very rarely come to anything.

Edited by OurJud

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Daz
Posted (edited)

Its realistic damage and limited HUD elements that is why it is sort of a milsim, just less actions required on a keyboard and wave respawns which make it desirable. Its just that it is smaller maps than games like squad, so it can be chaos at times but nothing that much more ridiculous as it could be in real life. That is getting a little picky. Besides, I thought you wanted bots? I think what you are asking for is very specific with the rule set you have provided.

 

I would suggest getting a job and getting a PC and be done with it. Then you won't have to f*ck around with PS+. Either that or get a free trial and download some of those FC5 maps while it is activated. If gaming is too much of a monetary burden there are always hobbies like knitting that you may enjoy.

Edited by Daz

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Daz said:

I would suggest getting a job and getting a PC and be done with it.

I like how you've decided to make the assumption I can't afford a gaming PC because I don't have a job. I don't suppose It could possibly be that I have more important things to spend my money on?

 

For what it's worth I wouldn't play online even if I had money to spare.

Edited by OurJud

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