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Agent_Zodiac

Does the game ever say what route the gang took from Blackwater to Colter?

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Agent_Zodiac

They were coming west when they arrived at Colter, right?

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Smokewood
3 hours ago, Agent_Zodiac said:

They were coming west when they arrived at Colter, right?

Read the journal.

They went from blackwater northwest, then turned east and went through the mountains.

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simmun

Initially, they came from the west (literally more west than New Austin - potentially South Western Territory and Canyon City ). They then came over the mountains to the Blackwater region. Blackwater heist went bad so they escaped up into the mountains again.  From Blackwater, they went northwest. I'm thinking they either went by Hanging Dog Ranch or Wallace Station which is the only two logically ways into Colter from Blackwater. 

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UnexpectedParole

Actually, they did not come by Wallace Station to get to Colter.  The entered Colter from the north via Spider Gorge. The got to Spider Gorge via the extreme NW of the rdr2 map from what ever state/country is NW of Ambarino there by Galcier.

 

I don't know how to prove it without 'spoiler' type material but the post by smokewood is pretty much correct. 

*But Jenny's grave is north of Colter in that Spider Gorge which is on the route they took to Colter. Davey died in Colter and was buried there. Jenny died before. Further both John and Micah are found east and south of Colter on the missions, and they were scouting ahead of the group. The men following would have to be north and west. (off the map in the NW)

 

So my guess for before the NW corner which is where we start rdr2.

The gang went west and northwest out of Blackwater off of the RDR2 map into the countries/states north and west of West Elizabeth and Ambarino.

 

I guess it is possible they went past Hanging Dog Ranch on the way out of Blackwater but that would have been a long time going north in West Elizabeth with the Law on their tail when he escape plan was to go west. This is still West Elizabeth yet the gang is not wanted north of the Upper Montana River so I can't think the Law chased them out of Blackwater through New Elizabeth up past Strawberry and Hanging Dog Ranch and then didn't bother to keep the wanted dead or alive status to look for them where they were last seen.

 

I feel it is much more likely that they went straight west out of Blackwater to Tall Trees and crossed west into the mountains by Aurora Basin. The map I have is vague as to passes and crossings in that area but I think they made their escape to the west either by going north of the basin or across the Lower Montana south of the basin. Then they headed north off the map to the west side of the mountain range that forms rdr2 map's west edge before circumstances forced them to the start of RDR2 in the NW of the map.. My second thought it they would have gone south and west to flee through New Austin to cross the Lower Montana and get out of state before then heading northwest past MacFarlane ranch into the mountains west of the Aurora Basin, but John says he's never been to New Austin, so probably not even though I could hear arguments for not wanting to say "oh yeah I went through New Austin before, but I was on the run from the Law so I can't talk about it.". It would be easier to just deny all knowledge.

 

And even if they did go past Hanging Dog Ranch to get to Colter I suspect they went North West up the Little Creek River off the map to go in a clockwise circular motion to get to Colter via the nw Corner instead of meandering up through Ewing Basin. Since Colm O'Driscoll and his lot that that area locked down. Again, the start of RDR2 has them moving se into Colter from the NW.

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RyuNova

They headed West from Blackwater and off the map as that was their orginal intention to keep going West. They were still being chased so they headed North into the frozen mountains to try and lose their pursuers (Bounty Hunters/Pinkertons would not be provisioned for cold temperatures so would need to back off, regroup and prepare themselves thus giving the gang time to get ahead)

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Kirk Lazarus

Maybe this avalanche that's now outside the playspace was going to be used during their escape?


 

Spoiler

 

t49SLWV.jpg

 

1K7vDdR.jpg

 

Vidz8RR.png


 

 

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Slonitram
On 3/11/2019 at 1:40 AM, alz said:

Maybe this avalanche that's now outside the playspace was going to be used during their escape?


 

  Hide contents

 

t49SLWV.jpg

 

1K7vDdR.jpg

 

Vidz8RR.png

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Does your John have white hair or am I seeing things?

 

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Kirk Lazarus
10 hours ago, TheSadisticOwl said:
  Hide contents

Does your John have white hair or am I seeing things?

 

He did have white hair, but only on the exposed sides, not under the hat.  It's a weird FX thing I've seen happen to other people too.

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Dark Rosewood Varnish

Well they must have got there via a route that was outside of RDR2's map. In the journal Arthur describes their journey up there was super treacherous to the point that no one could have possibly followed them, when in actual fact its pretty straight forward to get from Backwater to Colter and nowhere near as treacherous as he makes out.  

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crazedZ10
11 hours ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

Well they must have got there via a route that was outside of RDR2's map. In the journal Arthur describes their journey up there was super treacherous to the point that no one could have possibly followed them, when in actual fact its pretty straight forward to get from Backwater to Colter and nowhere near as treacherous as he makes out.  

Remember that this was during a intense blizzard

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UnexpectedParole
On 3/12/2019 at 3:40 PM, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

Well they must have got there via a route that was outside of RDR2's map. In the journal Arthur describes their journey up there was super treacherous to the point that no one could have possibly followed them, when in actual fact its pretty straight forward to get from Backwater to Colter and nowhere near as treacherous as he makes out.  

 

So I went back in this play through to check my theories and now I'm a little stumped.

I finally got the mission to get the Pipe for Dutch, and in the conversation Dutch says that it was lost during the Blackwater escape. The results of the campfire story with Lenny is he lost his watch during the escape as well. Both are found at Vettter's Echo which is just south of the Hanging Dog Ranch.

 

This causes continuity errors for me if we assume the gang was at that location during the escape. Since that leads to implying that the Little Creek route I discussed previously might be correct. But I traversed that route and it does not at all look like it would be passable to wagons.  Which means I'm forced to assume that the watch and pipe were lost on the escape and found by some-one who took them to the cabin.

 

But looking more and more makes me realize this map was created with no roads leaving the map to the west. I have found No-where in the universe would any regular folk cross west into the neighboring states, let alone a wagon train of outlaws. I mean I understand how for game play restrictions you have to have a map boundary. And mountains are super easy to do that with. However, does this work really?  We already accept that as Arthur -without glitching- you can't cross into North Elizabeth south of the Upper Montana River because you are wanted Dead Or Alive and Bounty Hunters will kill you dead.

 

Why isn't there a realistic road and rail network leading off the map into the west that has access blocked to the west for the gang by "Wanted Dead or Alive" prohibitions?

 

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Kirk Lazarus

Cross post looking at how the avalanche area and some other out-of-bound details could have been Dutch's escape route from Blackwater into the winter wilderness.

 

 

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UnexpectedParole

Ok. I am bringing this back since other threads have sparked more discussions with new information.

 

Taking a hint from @TwistOfLime21 -thank you.  I restarted a game today and hit the map as soon as I was able in the game. I got markers placed on the map where Swanson jumps down to talk to Dutch, where the least white dot (charles) is in the back of the line.

 

I then marked where the map says we are when Arthur rides up to announce he's found Colter.

 

These are all off map and NW of where we find John. In fact, where Arthur first appears is darn near straight north of the source of the water flowing down spider gorge. (where javier and arthur find the campfire when looking for John I think.)

 

Also, as I stated elsewhere, Jenny's grave is placed such that the gang would have had to have tranported her dead body nearly the entire way to Colter and then stopped when known shelter  and warmth was nearby  to bury her.  I think I'm just going to have to assume they transported her all the way to Colter and then instead of burying her near Davey, some-one I'll assume is Lenny went ahead and risked the nasty weather (that killed my horse when I tried it) to take her back north a bit and bury her alone by the river.  I can't see a group of wagons carrying a wounded Davey stopping to bury dead Jenny before Colter.

 

R* likely just had to relocate her grave when Colter was moved and the off map position was dis-allowed. ?

 

Also, while it appears obvious to me that the territory a z is trying to bring in plays into this, I'm still having an issue getting them to Lake Isabelle. Has there been any mapping done south and west of the avalanche ?

 

Edited by UnexpectedParole
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GinsengElixir
On 3/5/2019 at 3:20 PM, UnexpectedParole said:

Actually, they did not come by Wallace Station to get to Colter.  The entered Colter from the north via Spider Gorge. The got to Spider Gorge via the extreme NW of the rdr2 map from what ever state/country is NW of Ambarino there by Galcier.

 

I don't know how to prove it without 'spoiler' type material but the post by smokewood is pretty much correct. 

*But Jenny's grave is north of Colter in that Spider Gorge which is on the route they took to Colter. Davey died in Colter and was buried there. Jenny died before. Further both John and Micah are found east and south of Colter on the missions, and they were scouting ahead of the group. The men following would have to be north and west. (off the map in the NW)

 

So my guess for before the NW corner which is where we start rdr2.

The gang went west and northwest out of Blackwater off of the RDR2 map into the countries/states north and west of West Elizabeth and Ambarino.

 

I guess it is possible they went past Hanging Dog Ranch on the way out of Blackwater but that would have been a long time going north in West Elizabeth with the Law on their tail when he escape plan was to go west. This is still West Elizabeth yet the gang is not wanted north of the Upper Montana River so I can't think the Law chased them out of Blackwater through New Elizabeth up past Strawberry and Hanging Dog Ranch and then didn't bother to keep the wanted dead or alive status to look for them where they were last seen.

 

I feel it is much more likely that they went straight west out of Blackwater to Tall Trees and crossed west into the mountains by Aurora Basin. The map I have is vague as to passes and crossings in that area but I think they made their escape to the west either by going north of the basin or across the Lower Montana south of the basin. Then they headed north off the map to the west side of the mountain range that forms rdr2 map's west edge before circumstances forced them to the start of RDR2 in the NW of the map.. My second thought it they would have gone south and west to flee through New Austin to cross the Lower Montana and get out of state before then heading northwest past MacFarlane ranch into the mountains west of the Aurora Basin, but John says he's never been to New Austin, so probably not even though I could hear arguments for not wanting to say "oh yeah I went through New Austin before, but I was on the run from the Law so I can't talk about it.". It would be easier to just deny all knowledge.

 

And even if they did go past Hanging Dog Ranch to get to Colter I suspect they went North West up the Little Creek River off the map to go in a clockwise circular motion to get to Colter via the nw Corner instead of meandering up through Ewing Basin. Since Colm O'Driscoll and his lot that that area locked down. Again, the start of RDR2 has them moving se into Colter from the NW.

North, west, North West, North North West, south, east, south east, really east....the most confusing post I've read in a while.

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UnexpectedParole
5 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

North, west, North West, North North West, south, east, south east, really east....the most confusing post I've read in a while.

Aye, any abilty with a map editor sure would have helped eh?. :)

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Smokewood
On 3/25/2019 at 10:28 AM, UnexpectedParole said:

 

So I went back in this play through to check my theories and now I'm a little stumped.

I finally got the mission to get the Pipe for Dutch, and in the conversation Dutch says that it was lost during the Blackwater escape. The results of the campfire story with Lenny is he lost his watch during the escape as well. Both are found at Vettter's Echo which is just south of the Hanging Dog Ranch.

The pipe and watch you recover for them are NOT the ones they lost - they are simply replacements. 

Any watch will work for Lenny, btw....

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UnexpectedParole
33 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

The pipe and watch you recover for them are NOT the ones they lost - they are simply replacements. 

Any watch will work for Lenny, btw....

That makes sense. Thanks for pointing that out. I knew Lenny would accept any Silver watch. And that Granger's harmonica wasn't Sadie's, but for some reason my brain was registering that pipe as "Dutch's pipe". Given that Lenny's and Dutch's items were both lost at the same time and these are found at the same time my brain went and made the additional leap. 

 

Good. This reduces some of the stain on trying to sort out how the gang got to the extreme NW of the map while avoiding things like Hanging Dog Ranch and Ewing Basin.

cheers

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UnexpectedParole

Well , I had been hoping some-one else interested would chime in so I could avoid a double post or edit.

 

But I do recognize this is a niche discussion that might have already played itself out.

Be that as it may, in the mapping thread near the end Posted Monday at 08:22 PM:

@DuPzOr has posted a very well thought out route as to how the gang 's getaway might have happened.

I like it a lot, and think it has serious merit, but there are a few points I'd love to hear their or any-one else's opinions on.

 

1. The first query I have is in relation to Jenny's grave. If this route proves true, how likely do we think Jenny's grave is in a spot that makes sense?  -Or do we think we have to disregard Jenny's grave as a bum location due to R* having to relocate it to an in bounds location , and maybe they did not put too much thought into it? 

 

I've run the opening missions a few times this past weekend and opened the map. When Swanson talks to Dutch about Davey, and Arthur meets the group and tells them about Colter, we are at the opening points shown in this map. North off the playable map. So that jives.

What doesn't jive for me, is Jenny's grave would then be on the path between Arthur meeting back and getting to Colter. Why would the tired, cold, hungry, and wounded group stop to bury Jenny along the way to Colter if they had already carried her that far in the escape? Especially with the near death Davey onboard. And since there is no issue with burying in town, why didn't they just cart her with and bury her and Davey side by side?

 

 

2. John's route and the rescue mission with Javier.  I don't recall if I mapped the location of John's horse but I know I mapped the mission with Javier. The campfire they found was at the little "lake-like" source area on that upper fork and near the top of the playable map. They followed those horse prints to John's dead horse right?  That's starting on the east side of the source, and moving southwest. Then we follow the voice all over creation until we find John.  If John split off from the group as this theory suggests and moves eastward into the unknown to reach his final spot on the ledge, then how did Javier and Arthur find him / track him from the NE?

- my take. I think instead it might be more likely that John and Micah were sent out after Arthur came back and started to lead them to Colter. During the conversation with Swanson, Dutch tells him he had sent Arthur ahead. He didn't say "I've sent Arthur and Micah and John ahead".  I think that split came after they decision to camp in Colter. Maybe John was tasked with burying Jenny and then went on northwestward to explore back the way they came? (I don't like this idea, it just right now solves the issues hanging out there.)

-Also, we know the Dutch dialog telling Arthur Micah and John went downhill is junk -they both went uphill-, so maybe that timing is off too?

 

 

3. This escape route runs them right through Ewing Basin. Where they did not meet or see or hear about Colm and teh O'Driscolls who have been in the area a long time. How do we explain that?

 

Thoughts on these developments anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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JMarston
On 11/7/2019 at 16:48, UnexpectedParole said:

Bueno, esperaba que alguien más interesado interviniera para evitar una doble publicación o edición.

 

Pero sí reconozco que esta es una discusión de nicho que ya podría haberse desarrollado.

Sea como fuere, en el hilo de mapeo cerca del final Publicado el lunes a las 08:22 PM:

@DuPzOr ha publicado una ruta muy bien pensada sobre cómo pudo haber ocurrido la escapada de la pandilla.

Me gusta mucho, y creo que tiene un gran mérito, pero hay algunos puntos sobre los que me encantaría escuchar sus opiniones o las de cualquier otra persona.

 

1. La primera consulta que tengo está relacionada con la tumba de Jenny. Si esta ruta es cierta, ¿con qué probabilidad creemos que la tumba de Jenny está en un lugar que tiene sentido? ¿O creemos que tenemos que ignorar la tumba de Jenny como una ubicación de vagabundo debido a que R * tuvo que reubicarla en una ubicación dentro de los límites, y tal vez no pensaron demasiado en ella? 

 

He realizado las misiones de apertura varias veces el pasado fin de semana y he abierto el mapa. Cuando Swanson habla con Dutch sobre Davey, y Arthur se encuentra con el grupo y les cuenta sobre Colter, estamos en los puntos de apertura que se muestran en este mapa. Norte del mapa jugable. Entonces eso jives.

Lo que no me conmueve es que la tumba de Jenny estaría en el camino entre la reunión de Arthur y la llegada a Colter. ¿Por qué el grupo cansado, frío, hambriento y herido se detendría para enterrar a Jenny en el camino a Colter si ya la habían llevado tan lejos en la fuga? Especialmente con la muerte cercana a bordo de Davey. Y dado que no hay problema con enterrar en la ciudad, ¿por qué no simplemente la llevaron y la enterraron a ella y a Davey lado a lado?

 

 

2. La ruta de John y la misión de rescate con Javier. No recuerdo si mapeé la ubicación del caballo de John, pero sé que mapeé la misión con Javier. La fogata que encontraron estaba en la pequeña área de origen "similar a un lago" en ese tenedor superior y cerca de la parte superior del mapa jugable. Siguieron esas huellas hasta el caballo muerto de John, ¿verdad? Eso comienza en el lado este de la fuente y avanza hacia el suroeste. Luego seguimos la voz por toda la creación hasta que encontramos a John. Si John se separó del grupo como sugiere esta teoría y avanza hacia el este hacia lo desconocido para llegar a su lugar final en la repisa, ¿cómo lo encontraron Javier y Arthur / lo rastrearon desde el NE?

- mi toma. Creo que en cambio podría ser más probable que John y Micah fueran enviados después de que Arthur regresara y comenzara a llevarlos a Colter. Durante la conversación con Swanson, Dutch le dice que había enviado a Arthur por delante. No dijo "He enviado a Arthur, Micah y John por delante". Creo que esa división se produjo después de que decidieron acampar en Colter. ¿Tal vez a John se le encomendó enterrar a Jenny y luego se dirigió hacia el noroeste para explorar por donde vinieron? (No me gusta esta idea, en este momento resuelve los problemas que existen).

-También, sabemos que el diálogo holandés que dice que Arthur Micah y John fueron cuesta abajo es basura, ambos subieron cuesta arriba, ¿entonces tal vez ese tiempo también está apagado?

 

 

3. Esta ruta de escape los atraviesa a través de Ewing Basin. Donde no se encontraron, ni vieron ni escucharon sobre Colm y los O'Driscolls que han estado en el área por mucho tiempo. ¿Cómo explicamos eso?

 

¿Alguien piensa en estos desarrollos?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow very impressive! I would like this thread to continue. I found this thread late and his theories are great. This is a topic that is hardly talked about.

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UnexpectedParole
17 hours ago, JMarston said:

Wow very impressive! I would like this thread to continue. I found this thread late and his theories are great. This is a topic that is hardly talked about.

 

Me too.  But no-one is buying. Or selling, or talking.

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Kirk Lazarus

This reminds me I need to post screenshots of the old Colter location now out-of-bounds.  It's an area empty of buildings however it's a very flat area surrounded by hills with an implied road down from the northern reaches into playable space near Chez Porter.  The border around Chez Porter has been terraformed to fit the final game so you won't see a trail.  You can see the direction and original intention when out-of-bounds, though.

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Rykjeklut

I always just assumed they followed the coast North, and made their way down Spider Gorge when winter became to hard.

What am I basing this on? Absolutely nothing. Apart from Spider Gorge,because obviously.

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simmun

On the map from Dupzor, do we know the exact location of opening scene 1 and 2?

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simmun
On 7/11/2019 at 9:48 PM, UnexpectedParole said:

Well , I had been hoping some-one else interested would chime in so I could avoid a double post or edit.

 

But I do recognize this is a niche discussion that might have already played itself out.

Be that as it may, in the mapping thread near the end Posted Monday at 08:22 PM:

@DuPzOr has posted a very well thought out route as to how the gang 's getaway might have happened.

I like it a lot, and think it has serious merit, but there are a few points I'd love to hear their or any-one else's opinions on.

 

1. The first query I have is in relation to Jenny's grave. If this route proves true, how likely do we think Jenny's grave is in a spot that makes sense?  -Or do we think we have to disregard Jenny's grave as a bum location due to R* having to relocate it to an in bounds location , and maybe they did not put too much thought into it? 

 

I've run the opening missions a few times this past weekend and opened the map. When Swanson talks to Dutch about Davey, and Arthur meets the group and tells them about Colter, we are at the opening points shown in this map. North off the playable map. So that jives.

What doesn't jive for me, is Jenny's grave would then be on the path between Arthur meeting back and getting to Colter. Why would the tired, cold, hungry, and wounded group stop to bury Jenny along the way to Colter if they had already carried her that far in the escape? Especially with the near death Davey onboard. And since there is no issue with burying in town, why didn't they just cart her with and bury her and Davey side by side?

 

 

2. John's route and the rescue mission with Javier.  I don't recall if I mapped the location of John's horse but I know I mapped the mission with Javier. The campfire they found was at the little "lake-like" source area on that upper fork and near the top of the playable map. They followed those horse prints to John's dead horse right?  That's starting on the east side of the source, and moving southwest. Then we follow the voice all over creation until we find John.  If John split off from the group as this theory suggests and moves eastward into the unknown to reach his final spot on the ledge, then how did Javier and Arthur find him / track him from the NE?

- my take. I think instead it might be more likely that John and Micah were sent out after Arthur came back and started to lead them to Colter. During the conversation with Swanson, Dutch tells him he had sent Arthur ahead. He didn't say "I've sent Arthur and Micah and John ahead".  I think that split came after they decision to camp in Colter. Maybe John was tasked with burying Jenny and then went on northwestward to explore back the way they came? (I don't like this idea, it just right now solves the issues hanging out there.)

-Also, we know the Dutch dialog telling Arthur Micah and John went downhill is junk -they both went uphill-, so maybe that timing is off too?

 

 

3. This escape route runs them right through Ewing Basin. Where they did not meet or see or hear about Colm and teh O'Driscolls who have been in the area a long time. How do we explain that?

 

Thoughts on these developments anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) remember when Arthur and Javier goes out looking for John, they head north up Spider Gorge and they are surprised to find tracks that take them up the mountain side - allegedly the same way they came down according to Dupzor. I find this strange as just before that they had come down the same way. But I think Jenny's grave make sense because had they come down the mountain side they would want to go to the bottom of the valley to stake out a new direction and Jenny's grave is just next to the river/bottom of the valley. 

 

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UnexpectedParole
23 hours ago, simmun said:

1) remember when Arthur and Javier goes out looking for John, they head north up Spider Gorge and they are surprised to find tracks that take them up the mountain side - allegedly the same way they came down according to Dupzor. I find this strange as just before that they had come down the same way. But I think Jenny's grave make sense because had they come down the mountain side they would want to go to the bottom of the valley to stake out a new direction and Jenny's grave is just next to the river/bottom of the valley. 

 

Jenny's grave would make sense to me further back in the running. But finding it between the location of the cut scene where Arthur meets them and tells them about Colter, and Colter itself doesn't make you wonder? Why would they stop to bury Jenny before Colter when they just got done deciding Davey was in very bad shape and they needed to get out of the storm in a bad way ?

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simmun

Jenny's grave being between Arthur telling the caravan about Colter and Colter is OK for me because they wanted to bury her. However, yes, it is strange to do that when Arthur tells them Colter is not far away and Davy is about to die. 

 

No Colter doesn't bother me much - I can fit Colter into the story well. 

 

What puzzles me more is John. His campfire was found backtracking up Spider Gorge - where the caravan just came from. When was he there? After the caravan? John must have been traversing around in the mountain as the caravan descended down the mountain side, then gone down the mountain side, started camping, being attacked by wolfs and fled up the mountain side again, and up into the mountains. Which is strange but for me, at this point the only logically explanation given the facts. 

 

And what a bout Micha - where did he go? Because he came from the Adler Ranch. Did he pass Colter or did he descend the mountains closer to the Adler Ranch?

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UnexpectedParole
On 10/10/2019 at 8:27 AM, simmun said:

Jenny's grave being between Arthur telling the caravan about Colter and Colter is OK for me because they wanted to bury her. However, yes, it is strange to do that when Arthur tells them Colter is not far away and Davy is about to die. 

 

No Colter doesn't bother me much - I can fit Colter into the story well. 

 

What puzzles me more is John. His campfire was found backtracking up Spider Gorge - where the caravan just came from. When was he there? After the caravan? John must have been traversing around in the mountain as the caravan descended down the mountain side, then gone down the mountain side, started camping, being attacked by wolfs and fled up the mountain side again, and up into the mountains. Which is strange but for me, at this point the only logically explanation given the facts. 

 

And what a bout Micha - where did he go? Because he came from the Adler Ranch. Did he pass Colter or did he descend the mountains closer to the Adler Ranch?

 

IF after coming to Colter, some-one drug Jenny's body back up the way they came to bury her in a 'special' spot instead of just putting her in town with Davey then I guess it is "ok" for me. But otherwise everyone is is such bad shape that it makes sense for no-one in my opinion to stop before Colter to bury her.

 

I don't have any problem with Colter, my point was trying to describe the location of her grave. They buried her between the location where Arthur informs the gang he found shelter, and the location where the shelter is. Or, after he tells them he found shelter but before they reach it. Which you have already figured out of course.

 

John and Micah I agree are both confusing. As I mentioned before somewhere, Dutch specifically says John and Micah went off scouting downhill when you start that mission with him. Both are upstream, and thus uphill of Colter. I initially understood the opening scenes to mean Arthur was alone looking when the game started. He found Colter and joined back with the gang, reported it and led them there. then Dutch sent Micah and John out looking. But Javier telling John "that is where we are camped" implies that he didn't know and didn't leave from there.  Is is possible that Dutch sent John and Micah out scouting ahead from that meeting point with Arthur and they both went south towards Colter, Micah turning north and east and John turning north and west when they hit those forks in the creeks?

 

That doesn't make sense to me, because conditions were so bad I can't understand not at least showing those guys where the gang will be when they need to come back to report finding something.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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simmun

Yes it is confusing. 

 

Dutch says Arthur is out looking which he sent up ahead. At this scene there is a large mountain to their right which corresponds to their location on the map (huge mountain north-west outside the map which is on their right). At this point they are talking about Davey and that he is about to die. 

 

When they get to Colter Dutch says he sent Micha and John out to scout and that they haven't run into them yet so they must have headed down the hill. 

 

Micha says he didnt see much (of John) after the stormed rolled in

 

Javier says last he know, John was headed up the river

 

------------

 

My thoughts:

 

Only thing that make some sense is for Duch to send John and Micha out scouting from Colter. Micha goes north east and John goes back the way they came from. They didnt go south because that would mean going towards Blackwater and law enforcement. 

 

Javier telling John "that is where we are camped" could be something Javier tells John to comfort him as he may be very cold, disoriented and delusional. 

 

This fits with Micha and what Javier is saying about John (that he knew John was going up the river). Also, Duch is only revealing to the gang that he sent the boys out scouting at Colter - had he sent them out prior to Colter the gang would known. 

 

My only problem is the "well, we haven't run into them yet. So they both must have headed down the hill". This strongly implies that John and Micha was sent out while they were still deeper up in the mountains. But this conflicts with the rest of the events, location of the gang, and what people are saying. 

 

Also we have Jennys grave which doesn't make sense. 

 

 

By now I think we have to accept that they made a lot of changes to the "opening scene/what was meant to be chapter 1". These changes includes the escape route from Blackwater (we know there is a hand modeled route west of the mountains, Jennys death/burial and the scouting og John and Micha. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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UnexpectedParole
On 10/9/2019 at 7:11 AM, simmun said:

On the map from Dupzor, do we know the exact location of opening scene 1 and 2?

Sorry I missed this earlier for some reason.

 

I wish I had map editor skills or the barest ability to post a screenshot picture. But...

 

When I mapped scene 1 (Swanson talking to Dutch) it was Just west of that northernmost border. Where the border goes from north/south, to east/west. Outside the border. The gang were shown on the map as moving in a line to the ne from the sw.

 

Then scene 2 (Arthur meeting Dutch and telling them about Colter) is further north east of there. This time more north of the east/west line. Heading west to east.

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DuPz0r

Yes these are the positions on the map.

uGv5MXk.jpg

 

However, the surrounding terrain in the cutscene does not match up with what is actually at those positions. So they must have done something to either change the co-ordinates on the map, or drop all those props in for the cutscene, then unload them afterwards...

 

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