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Mysterious hero

Red Dead Redemption 2 Retcons and Continuity errors

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dognuts

They could also just not have any bridges connecting West Elizabeth to Thieves' Landing (just like the original game before An Appointed Time), and make the riverbanks too high to jump above (and if you manage to climb it, you slide just like any other game barrier).

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lol232

John getting shot at the Blackwater job could just mean it was a minor injury which is why John could scout shortly after. Maybe he volunteered? "Yeah, I'll scout, the injury is nothing too bad" or something like that.

Edited by lol232

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HeyThereFriend

While John being in New Austin does mess with the continuity of the first game, I can't complain about that. I much rather have New Austin to explore then just that small part of West Elizabeth after completing the main story that takes place across New Hanover, The Grizzlies and Lemoyne.

 

I think they did the ending perfect and while it does mess with some of the lore, being able to play as John again and explore the area that is New Austin is so nostalgic and awesome!

 

It's also easy to say he's lied when he said he was never in New Austin before the events of RDR1. As to the reason for lying, doesn't really matter.

 

I think the best thing for Rockstar to do is remake the first game as a DLC and fix a few of the slight lore issues and rerecord Javier and Abigail's lines with the new actors. Also make some mentions of Sadie, Charles, Trelawny and Arthur.

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RJX74

Edgar Ross says John killed hundreds of innocent people in " Bear One Another's Burdens". In RDR2, you never really see that, unless we're talking lawmen.

Edited by RJX74

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HeyThereFriend
50 minutes ago, RJX74 said:

Edgar Ross says John killed hundreds of innocent people in " Bear One Another's Burdens". In RDR2, you never really see that, unless we're talking lawmen.

Wouldn't call that a lore break or retcon. RDR2 was about the fall of the gang. The Blackwater job was the beginning of the end. The Van der Linde gang lasted way longer than a few months. Arthur has been with Dutch for 20 years. So John killing hundreds of innocents could've happened before the events of RDR2. There is also the very possible answer that Ross didn't care about the facts and simply painted a picture of John being the same as the common thug.

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AddamHusayin
On 2/20/2019 at 9:03 PM, Mysterious hero said:

I guess you can say its less a retcon and more of a change of story. Originally it was the ferry robbery but they changed it to being a train robbery, likely to make John getting left behind more believable.

 

A continuity error is still a continuity error, big or small.

 

He also canonically goes as far as Rio Bravo with Jeremy Gill.

 

But listen closely to the dialogue when he says "What you and Dutch did was wrong and the way you left me was wrong". He says "What you and Dutch did was wrong" and then says "and the way you left me was wrong". He's not saying "You and Dutch left me and that was wrong" but seems to be mentioning two different events. Maybe"What you and Dutch did was wrong" was join Micah during the standoff at Beaver Hollow?

 

John never said that. Dutch tells John "Your the master now" to which John retorts "I've been my master since you left me to die". That doesn't imply that John hasn't seen him since the train robbery, it just means that he has been more in control of his own life, away from Dutch.

That was the point I was trying to make. It seems weird that he wouldn't remember Angelo Bronte's mansion when he was 12, since that was a unique enough situation to remember. Plus it was a happy memory, not a traumatic one, so it's not like he would repress the memory.

 

I mean they got all their bases covered, Dutch and co robbed a ferry, Dutch shot a girl, John got shot. But the original implied that that was THE robbery he got shot and left behind on. But it's less of a retcon and more of a story change.

You don't know that when it comes to the ferry robbery. Next.

 

That isn't a continuity error but whatever.

 

The Jeremy Gill mission technically wouldn't be considered canon since it was probably meant to be a mission that Arthur was supposed to finish and it is an oversight. I mean there's a bunch of interactions you can have in New Autsin with the Sheriff at Tumbleweed with bounties and such that only John can do. Is that canon too?

 

 

You're just arguing semantics when it comes to the dialogue regarding Dutch and Javier. He's talking about what they did in general. Please. And yes John did say that lol

 

 

Edited by AddamHusayin

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Mysterious hero
10 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

You don't know that when it comes to the ferry robbery. Next.

The Ferry Robbery was clearly intended to be the robbery John got shot and left behind on when they were making RDR1. Why would R* make The Strange Man say "same one you got shot on" if it wasn't meant to be the same robbery? They changed it to being a train robbery around 2011, when they were writing backstories for the characters in preparation for RDR2.

 

10 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

That isn't a continuity error but whatever.

Yes it is. The Game of the year guidebook says that John has been farming for three years. This is the same guidebook that alludes to John getting shot during a train robbery.

 

10 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

The Jeremy Gill mission technically wouldn't be considered canon since it was probably meant to be a mission that Arthur was supposed to finish and it is an oversight. I mean there's a bunch of interactions you can have in New Austin with the Sheriff at Tumbleweed with bounties and such that only John can do. Is that canon too?

The reason why I consider the Jeremy Gill side quest canon and the Sheriff Freeman bounties non-canon is due to one simple rule: gameplay and story segregation. We see John physically in Rio Bravo during the Jeremy Gill mission during the cutscene, yet never any cutscenes for Sheriff Freeman. In the rule of gameplay and story segregation, cutscenes are the highest form of canon. Also you can't finish the mission with Arthur when you do the New Austin glitch, unlike the side mission with the dinosaur bones, so I don't think the mission was meant to be finished as Arthur.

 

10 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

You're just arguing semantics when it comes to the dialogue regarding Dutch and Javier. He's talking about what they did in general. Please.

Okay, but what did they do "in general" that was so bad that John had to call him out on it?

 

10 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

And yes John did say that lol

When did John say he hasn't seen Dutch ever since he was left for dead?

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Adamska_

It's called Fake News.

 

And it's been around since the dawn of man.

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AddamHusayin
17 hours ago, Mysterious hero said:

The Ferry Robbery was clearly intended to be the robbery John got shot and left behind on when they were making RDR1. Why would R* make The Strange Man say "same one you got shot on" if it wasn't meant to be the same robbery? They changed it to being a train robbery around 2011, when they were writing backstories for the characters in preparation for RDR2.

 

Yes it is. The Game of the year guidebook says that John has been farming for three years. This is the same guidebook that alludes to John getting shot during a train robbery.

 

The reason why I consider the Jeremy Gill side quest canon and the Sheriff Freeman bounties non-canon is due to one simple rule: gameplay and story segregation. We see John physically in Rio Bravo during the Jeremy Gill mission during the cutscene, yet never any cutscenes for Sheriff Freeman. In the rule of gameplay and story segregation, cutscenes are the highest form of canon. Also you can't finish the mission with Arthur when you do the New Austin glitch, unlike the side mission with the dinosaur bones, so I don't think the mission was meant to be finished as Arthur.

 

Okay, but what did they do "in general" that was so bad that John had to call him out on it?

 

When did John say he hasn't seen Dutch ever since he was left for dead?

Clearly intended? Prove it. Tell me where Rockstar said that it was meant to be the same one. Not one place in RDR1 do they say it was the exact same robbery. That is what happened. They imply it but never outright say it. It probably was meant to be the same one but they decided to make it 2 separate ones when it came to RDR2. Im sure Rockstar could've made it either way but they decided they were 2 different events. That means it wasn't a retcon. Can't retcon the robbery if it technically never was just one robbery because RDR2 clarifies that it was actually 2 and RDR1 never said it was one and the same. 

 

Guidebooks shouldn't be taken as canon as they have mistakes in them all time like my Halo guides having some mistakes. Aside from that it still isn't even a mistake anyways. He farms for 3 or 4 years... big deal.

The real crime is the McFarlane Barn not being built.

 

You can make John go and do all sorts of things in New Austin. Enough splitting hairs. We all know he didn't do any of those things unless Rockstar really decides to retcon it that way and says otherwise. But I'm 100% sure it's just for gameplay purposes. Jack and John can do the same strangers missions with a few obvious exceptions but the same goes for Arthur and John in RDR2. So who canonically does all the stranger missions in RDR1 and RDR2? Did Arthur or John kill and take pictures of the gunslingers? They both have cutscenes... it doesn't matter because it's not part of the main story.

 

They left him to die on the train robbery and they betrayed him and Arthur back at the camp by pointing their guns at him and not helping him fight the swarming pinkertons. I guess that isn't bad to you? Lol both of these actions are exactly what John is referring to. 

 

He said it in RDR1. Look it up. 

 

I'm just going to keep on repeating this. If you convinced me of what you're saying then I'd be believing false information. But I'll keep on repeating it if I have to because I'm afraid respectfully that you're wrong. Can't agree to disagree about facts. I'm always a stickler and harsh as hell on developers for stuff in canon but people are misconstruing much of what happens in both games. One event in particular are the 2 robberies. I give credit where credit is due. Rockstar did mess up on a bunch of details but the ones we're talking about aren't those.

Edited by AddamHusayin

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Mysterious hero
6 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

Clearly intended? Prove it. Tell me where Rockstar said that it was meant to be the same one. Not one place in RDR1 do they say it was the exact same robbery. That is what happened. They imply it but never outright say it. It probably was meant to be the same one but they decided to make it 2 separate ones when it came to RDR2. Im sure Rockstar could've made it either way but they decided they were 2 different events. That means it wasn't a retcon. Can't retcon the robbery if it technically never was just one robbery because RDR2 clarifies that it was actually 2 and RDR1 never said it was one and the same. 

Why would R* make the Strange Man say "same one you got shot on" if it wasn't intended to be the same robbery at the time. But you are correct, it's not a retcon, not in-universe at least. They made sure to keep the detail that John was shot at the Ferry. On a unrelated note, I wish they made John get shot in the foot instead of the arm during the Ferry Robbery. In the mission "New Friends, Old Problems", you can see a bandage on John's foot that was never explained in either game. It would be cool if it was a bullet wound that didn't heal properly and also add merit to the Strange Man's comment about John getting shot.

 

6 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

Guidebooks shouldn't be taken as canon as they have mistakes in them all time like my Halo guides having some mistakes. Aside from that it still isn't even a mistake anyways. He farms for 3 or 4 years... big deal.

Normally I would agree with you, but for Red Dead Redemption, R* carefully made backstories for the characters for the upcoming prequel. It's not like Star Wars or Halo where the universe is so big that different authors have different opinions on certain events and how they happened. Like how the Fall of Reach is different from the guidebook for Halo Combat Evolved vs what was actually shown in Halo Reach. Also, yes I know the difference between 1907 and 1908 are small, but to me it's still an error.

 

6 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

You can make John go and do all sorts of things in New Austin. Enough splitting hairs. We all know he didn't do any of those things unless Rockstar really decides to retcon it that way and says otherwise. But I'm 100% sure it's just for gameplay purposes. Jack and John can do the same strangers missions with a few obvious exceptions but the same goes for Arthur and John in RDR2. So who canonically does all the stranger missions in RDR1 and RDR2? Did Arthur or John kill and take pictures of the gunslingers? They both have cutscenes... it doesn't matter because it's not part of the main story.

Well, whether John, Jack, or Arthur canonically did the side missions doesn't really matter, since their canon regardless. Though the problem here is that, to finish the Jeremy Gill mission, you must play as John. Regardless of whether or not it was intended for Arthur to finish the JG mission, he can't. Which means, canonically, John has went to New Austin twice and that's only if you take gameplay and story segregation to heart.

 

6 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

They left him to die on the train robbery and they betrayed him and Arthur back at the camp by pointing their guns at him and not helping him fight the swarming pinkertons. I guess that isn't bad to you? Lol both of these actions are exactly what John is referring to. 

Bit of a stretch, since he seems to single out Javier and Dutch, but I will take it.

 

6 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

He said it in RDR1. Look it up. 

Where? I looked everywhere. What was the exact mission/dialogue he said it?

 

6 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

I'm just going to keep on repeating this. If you convinced me of what you're saying then I'd be believing false information. But I'll keep on repeating it if I have to because I'm afraid respectfully that you're wrong. Can't agree to disagree about facts. I'm always a stickler and harsh as hell on developers for stuff in canon but people are misconstruing much of what happens in both games. One event in particular are the 2 robberies. I give credit where credit is due. Rockstar did mess up on a bunch of details but the ones we're talking about aren't those.

Hey listen, I'm just as much as a stickler to the lore as you are. Like when people claim that in RDR1 it was mentioned that it was a bank robbery John got shot and left behind on, I always correct them. I know the lore quite well, I've played RDR1 since it first came out, it is one of my favorite games of all time. As far as I've have noticed, I haven't said anything that was incorrect. Maybe except for the Ferry Robbery since it isn't technically a retcon in-universe, but out of universe, it was originally intended to be the same robbery.

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AddamHusayin
2 hours ago, Mysterious hero said:

Why would R* make the Strange Man say "same one you got shot on" if it wasn't intended to be the same robbery at the time. But you are correct, it's not a retcon, not in-universe at least. They made sure to keep the detail that John was shot at the Ferry. On a unrelated note, I wish they made John get shot in the foot instead of the arm during the Ferry Robbery. In the mission "New Friends, Old Problems", you can see a bandage on John's foot that was never explained in either game. It would be cool if it was a bullet wound that didn't heal properly and also add merit to the Strange Man's comment about John getting shot.

 

Normally I would agree with you, but for Red Dead Redemption, R* carefully made backstories for the characters for the upcoming prequel. It's not like Star Wars or Halo where the universe is so big that different authors have different opinions on certain events and how they happened. Like how the Fall of Reach is different from the guidebook for Halo Combat Evolved vs what was actually shown in Halo Reach. Also, yes I know the difference between 1907 and 1908 are small, but to me it's still an error.

 

Well, whether John, Jack, or Arthur canonically did the side missions doesn't really matter, since their canon regardless. Though the problem here is that, to finish the Jeremy Gill mission, you must play as John. Regardless of whether or not it was intended for Arthur to finish the JG mission, he can't. Which means, canonically, John has went to New Austin twice and that's only if you take gameplay and story segregation to heart.

 

Bit of a stretch, since he seems to single out Javier and Dutch, but I will take it.

 

Where? I looked everywhere. What was the exact mission/dialogue he said it?

 

Hey listen, I'm just as much as a stickler to the lore as you are. Like when people claim that in RDR1 it was mentioned that it was a bank robbery John got shot and left behind on, I always correct them. I know the lore quite well, I've played RDR1 since it first came out, it is one of my favorite games of all time. As far as I've have noticed, I haven't said anything that was incorrect. Maybe except for the Ferry Robbery since it isn't technically a retcon in-universe, but out of universe, it was originally intended to be the same robbery.

You don't know the lore that well honestly. Otherwise you'd agree with what I'm saying. You're literally just ignoring what I'm saying, putting up a false narrative, making things up too. I pointed out John and jack can do the same missions but it apparently doesn't matter to you. I'm just talking to a broken record lol End of story.

Edited by AddamHusayin

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Guest Guest176525326

I might be the only one, but I wish Rockstar would have followed the GTA series formula. New game, new characters, new story.

 

It would have been so much better imo

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a z

And title it something less confusing than Red Dead Redemption 2 (the sequel that's a prequel to the first Red Dead Redemption)

The whole idea of a "Red Dead something" franchise sounded like a fantastic way to have loads of future variety under a larger brand.

 

Red Dead Revolver

Red Dead Redemption

Red Dead Revolution

Red Dead Reloaded

Red Dead Revenge

Red Dead Renegades

Red Dead Reckoning

Red Dead Repentance 

Red Dead Rebellion

Red Dead Retribution

Red Dead Revolt

Red Dead Resistence

Red Dead Remorse

 

Now all future titles will be Red Dead Redemption #.  Maybe Red Dead Redemption 3 will take place before Red Dead Redemption 2, when you play as Landon Ricketts 😛

 

 

 

 

 

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Adamska_
1 hour ago, alz said:

And title it something less confusing than Red Dead Redemption 2 (the sequel that's a prequel to the first Red Dead Redemption)

The whole idea of a "Red Dead something" franchise sounded like a fantastic way to have loads of future variety under a larger brand.

 

Red Dead Revolver

Red Dead Redemption

Red Dead Revolution

Red Dead Reloaded

Red Dead Revenge

Red Dead Renegades

Red Dead Reckoning

Red Dead Repentance 

Red Dead Rebellion

Red Dead Retribution

Red Dead Revolt

Red Dead Resistence

Red Dead Remorse

 

Now all future titles will be Red Dead Redemption #.  Maybe Red Dead Redemption 3 will take place before Red Dead Redemption 2, when you play as Landon Ricketts 😛

 

 

 

 

 

The fact that RDR2 is canonically a prequel to RDR1 says other wise.

 

They could easily make a Red Dead Revolver 2 or a Red Dead Renegade next.

This is far from the nomenclature that are used by Final Fantasy titles. 

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Mysterious hero
15 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

You don't know the lore that well honestly. Otherwise you'd agree with what I'm saying. You're literally just ignoring what I'm saying, putting up a false narrative, making things up too. I pointed out John and jack can do the same missions but it apparently doesn't matter to you. I'm just talking to a broken record lol End of story.

Where am I making things up? How do I not know the lore very well? I am not putting up a false narrative nor am I disagreeing with you on every turn. I agreed with you that the Ferry Robbery wasn't "technically" a retcon, since they never directly mention the two robberies to be the same.

 

About the side quest thing, I didn't articulate very well what I was trying to say, so I apologize. Basically, you implied that side quests aren't canon since they can be played by Arthur/John/Jack and that they are just there for gameplay purposes. I disagreed and think that the events of those side quests happened, regardless who you play as. For example, in the gunslinger side mission, what happened in the side quest was canon, but whoever you played as is just for flavor. The problem about Jeremy Gill, however, is the fact that you must complete his side quest as John, which means John must go to Rio Bravo. While you could say that the mission was made to be finished by Arthur, the fact that he doesn't have a cutscene means the idea of Arthur going to Rio Bravo isn't canon. But this is just my opinion.

 

There is that one question that you keep tiptoeing around: Where did John say that the last time he saw Dutch was when he was left for dead? I looked it up and I can't find it anywhere.

Edited by Mysterious hero

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AddamHusayin
6 hours ago, Mysterious hero said:

Where am I making things up? How do I not know the lore very well? I am not putting up a false narrative nor am I disagreeing with you on every turn. I agreed with you that the Ferry Robbery wasn't "technically" a retcon, since they never directly mention the two robberies to be the same.

 

About the side quest thing, I didn't articulate very well what I was trying to say, so I apologize. Basically, you implied that side quests aren't canon since they can be played by Arthur/John/Jack and that they are just there for gameplay purposes. I disagreed and think that the events of those side quests happened, regardless who you play as. For example, in the gunslinger side mission, what happened in the side quest was canon, but whoever you played as is just for flavor. The problem about Jeremy Gill, however, is the fact that you must complete his side quest as John, which means John must go to Rio Bravo. While you could say that the mission was made to be finished by Arthur, the fact that he doesn't have a cutscene means the idea of Arthur going to Rio Bravo isn't canon. But this is just my opinion.

 

There is that one question that you keep tiptoeing around: Where did John say that the last time he saw Dutch was when he was left for dead? I looked it up and I can't find it anywhere.

You didn't agree with me then. But you are now? Lol

 

Didn't imply sidequests aren't canon. I'm just asking who canonically completes them. Jack or John? Obviously John does the Mysterious Stranger ones. For RDR2 is it John or Arthur?

 

It's there I assure you.

 

Anyways this is going nowhere. Mods please lock this thread. Thank you for your time.

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Mysterious hero
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, AddamHusayin said:

You didn't agree with me then. But you are now? Lol

If you reread my comments, the entire time I have been agreeing with you in that, from an in-universe standpoint, the Ferry Robbery wasn't a retcon.

 

49 minutes ago, AddamHusayin said:

Didn't imply sidequests aren't canon.

"The Jeremy Gill side quest wouldn't technically be considered canon because it was probably meant to be a side quest Arthur was supposed to finish and its an oversight"

"I'm 100% sure that it's just for gameplay reasons"

"It doesn't matter because it's not part of the main story"

 

49 minutes ago, AddamHusayin said:

I'm just asking who canonically completes them. Jack or John? Obviously John does the Mysterious Stranger ones. For RDR2 is it John or Arthur?

Like I said, there is no canon to who you use to complete the side quests. The events of the side quests themselves are canon. For example, Boy Calloway shooting Slim Grant is canon, Marko Dragic building his robot is canon, Magnifico returning to Miss Marjorie is canon, ect, ect. Whoever you use doesn't matter, as long as the events of the side quests occur. There are exceptions, of course, you must use Arthur for the Nun side quests and for The Mercies Of Knowledge. With John, you must use him for American Inferno Burnt Out and I Know You. But you also need John to complete the second half of Fisher Of Fish, which takes you to Rio Bravo, which means John canonically goes to Rio Bravo.

 

49 minutes ago, AddamHusayin said:

It's there I assure you.

Again, tiptoeing around the question.

 

49 minutes ago, AddamHusayin said:

Anyways this is going nowhere. Mods please lock this thread. Thank you for your time.

Seriously? You want the mods to lock the thread because we disagree on a couple of things?

Edited by Mysterious hero

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JC_HUMBLE

I found some interesting dialogue involving New Austin in The New South mission when Arthur, Dutch and Hosea are fishing; 

 

Arthur: It seems that the farther west we try to go, the farther east we end up.

Hosea: We had all those safe places to hide in New Austin after the ferry heist.

Dutch: I liked that place. Open and wild lands, as it should be. In a way, the desert makes you feel closer to heaven.

Arthur: Trying to come back does not make sense, at least for the moment. Tall Trees and Great Plains are full of pinkertons patrols

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Mysterious hero
1 hour ago, JC_HUMBLE said:

I found some interesting dialogue involving New Austin in The New South mission when Arthur, Dutch and Hosea are fishing; 

 

Arthur: It seems that the farther west we try to go, the farther east we end up.

Hosea: We had all those safe places to hide in New Austin after the ferry heist.

Dutch: I liked that place. Open and wild lands, as it should be. In a way, the desert makes you feel closer to heaven.

Arthur: Trying to come back does not make sense, at least for the moment. Tall Trees and Great Plains are full of pinkertons patrols

Yep. Hosea and Dutch picked out a safe spot in New Austin. Their plan was for Dutch and the gunmen (John, Javier, Charles, Sean, Lenny, Bill, Micah, Mac, Davey) to rob the ferry, then head to New Austin. The next day, Arthur and Hosea would do a real estate scam that would make them a lot of money. After that was done, they would round up the non gunmen (Mary-Beth, Tilly, Karen, Miss Grimshaw, Strauss, Pearson, Reverend, Jenny, Jack) then head to New Austin to rendezvous with the rest of the gang. They would then presumably stay there for a while, then head to California to buy some land. Obviously, it didn't go to plan.

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HeyThereFriend

I don't get the disagreement here, if there is a cutscene, it is 100% canon.

 

I also think gameplay can be considered canon as well. However in that particular case, everyone has their own head canon. Like for my head canon John 100% went to the Tumbleweed Stables and bought a horse.

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Mysterious hero
17 hours ago, HeyThereFriend said:

I don't get the disagreement here, if there is a cutscene, it is 100% canon.

 

I also think gameplay can be considered canon as well. However in that particular case, everyone has their own head canon. Like for my head canon John 100% went to the Tumbleweed Stables and bought a horse.

I don't know about John going to Tumbleweed. John asks what Tumbleweed is to Marshal Johnson in the first game.

 

In my personal opinion, John only went to New Austin twice, once to Pike Basin with Sadie and once to Rio Bravo with Jeremy Gill. I consider those canon because one was during a main mission and the other has a cutscene. So in my head canon, John HAS been to New Austin, but he just doesn't know the area very well.

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HeyThereFriend
2 hours ago, Mysterious hero said:

I don't know about John going to Tumbleweed. John asks what Tumbleweed is to Marshal Johnson in the first game.

 

In my personal opinion, John only went to New Austin twice, once to Pike Basin with Sadie and once to Rio Bravo with Jeremy Gill. I consider those canon because one was during a main mission and the other has a cutscene. So in my head canon, John HAS been to New Austin, but he just doesn't know the area very well.

I think if they allow you to go somewhere it should be considered canon. For my head canon I can easily work around it as John simply lies about how well he knows the area.

 

"One day I wanna play Liars Dice, not that I'm saying I'm a liar"

 

That came off to me as he was being sarcastic, so it fits.

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Mysterious hero
16 hours ago, HeyThereFriend said:

I think if they allow you to go somewhere it should be considered canon. For my head canon I can easily work around it as John simply lies about how well he knows the area.

 

"One day I wanna play Liars Dice, not that I'm saying I'm a liar"

 

That came off to me as he was being sarcastic, so it fits.

It seems odd that he would specifically lie about going to New Austin though. I mean, if he knows the area very well, why lie about it? John doesn't lie that much, he actually very honest, especially about his past. Of course, he doesn't tell Bonnie that he used to run in a gang the first time they meet, but he eventually did.

 

Speaking of Liar's Dice, how come it wasn't in RDR2? That was one of the best mini games of RDR1. Also, what happened to Horseshoes and doing Nightwatch for a town? Or cheating at poker? Or help breaking horses at ranches? Oh well, at least we have Dominoes.

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HeyThereFriend
1 hour ago, Mysterious hero said:

It seems odd that he would specifically lie about going to New Austin though. I mean, if he knows the area very well, why lie about it? John doesn't lie that much, he actually very honest, especially about his past. Of course, he doesn't tell Bonnie that he used to run in a gang the first time they meet, but he eventually did.

 

Speaking of Liar's Dice, how come it wasn't in RDR2? That was one of the best mini games of RDR1. Also, what happened to Horseshoes and doing Nightwatch for a town? Or cheating at poker? Or help breaking horses at ranches? Oh well, at least we have Dominoes.

It's just my way or allowing myself to free roam New Austin and make it fit my head canon, it's flawed as you are correct in the fact he barely lies. However in this particular case it's just one of those things where I try not to think about it much. Regardless of what is and isn't considered canon, I think everyone in this topic cares more about the lore than Rockstar themselves do at this point because they can't sell gold bars on lore, which is a shame.

 

Yeah more mini games would've been nice, espeically night watch. I loved those missions and it would feel so incredibly nostalgic because night watch is one of the earliest things you do in RDR1.

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Mysterious hero
3 hours ago, HeyThereFriend said:

Yeah more mini games would've been nice, espeically night watch. I loved those missions and it would feel so incredibly nostalgic because night watch is one of the earliest things you do in RDR1.

I guess they didn't include Night Watch because it wouldn't fit the outlaw motif they were going for with the game. Then again, bounty hunting doesn't fit the outlaw motif either yet they included that.

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a z
5 hours ago, Mysterious hero said:

I guess they didn't include Night Watch because it wouldn't fit the outlaw motif they were going for with the game. Then again, bounty hunting doesn't fit the outlaw motif either yet they included that.

Like trading love letters with feuding families fits the outlaw motif?  😛

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Mysterious hero
22 hours ago, alz said:

Like trading love letters with feuding families fits the outlaw motif?  😛

Yep.

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AddamHusayin
Posted (edited)
On 2/28/2019 at 6:14 PM, Mysterious hero said:

If you reread my comments, the entire time I have been agreeing with you in that, from an in-universe standpoint, the Ferry Robbery wasn't a retcon.

 

"The Jeremy Gill side quest wouldn't technically be considered canon because it was probably meant to be a side quest Arthur was supposed to finish and its an oversight"

"I'm 100% sure that it's just for gameplay reasons"

"It doesn't matter because it's not part of the main story"

 

Like I said, there is no canon to who you use to complete the side quests. The events of the side quests themselves are canon. For example, Boy Calloway shooting Slim Grant is canon, Marko Dragic building his robot is canon, Magnifico returning to Miss Marjorie is canon, ect, ect. Whoever you use doesn't matter, as long as the events of the side quests occur. There are exceptions, of course, you must use Arthur for the Nun side quests and for The Mercies Of Knowledge. With John, you must use him for American Inferno Burnt Out and I Know You. But you also need John to complete the second half of Fisher Of Fish, which takes you to Rio Bravo, which means John canonically goes to Rio Bravo.

 

Again, tiptoeing around the question.

 

Seriously? You want the mods to lock the thread because we disagree on a couple of things?

I said lock it because you're wrong about these things and those direct quotes are misinterpreted btw. It's not a disagreement if you're wrong lol You're tiptoeing around the truth. I'm just going to keep in telling you the same thing. Every you said was debunked so there is no need for any further discussion. Lock this thread mods. Thank you.

Edited by AddamHusayin

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Jason
Posted (edited)

The thread isn't being locked because you disagree with somebody, so you can stop asking.

Edited by Jason

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Mysterious hero
On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:04 PM, AddamHusayin said:

I said lock it because you're wrong about these things

 

I'm not wrong about anything. But if I am wrong about something, tell me WHY I'm wrong. The only one you gave me an explanation on why I was wrong was the Ferry Robbery. The thing about the Ferry Robbery, though, is the fact that you tell me it's not a retcon. Here's the thing, it might not be a retcon from an in-universe standpoint, since these two robberies were never directly mentioned to be the same robbery. But from an out-of-universe standpoint, it was clear they changed the story. Why would R* make the Strange Man say "same one you got shot on" if it wasn't intended to be the same robbery at the time of RDR1?

 

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:04 PM, AddamHusayin said:

those direct quotes are misinterpreted btw.

Saying that something is not canon and for gameplay purposes isn't misinterpretation, I am literally reading what you said.

 

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:04 PM, AddamHusayin said:

It's not a disagreement if you're wrong lol

I could say the same to you.

 

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:04 PM, AddamHusayin said:

You're tiptoeing around the truth.

Again, I could say the same thing to you. Here's the thing, when I claim somethings a retcon, I give out evidence. The guidebook, Missions, Dialogue, ect, ect, that you dismissed as either semantics or non-canon. I was going to put up the changed details about the Blackwater Massacre, but since I didn't have the evidence, I decided not to. What's your evidence? "Oh it's there, look it up, I assure you it's there". But sure, I'm the one who tiptoes around the truth. But if you know the lore so well, then riddle me this: When does John say that the last time he saw Dutch was when he got left behind during the robbery? And please no, "I assure you it's there" type answers.

 

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:04 PM, AddamHusayin said:

Every thing you said was debunked

Most of what I said wasn't debunked.

 

- John going out to New Austin at least twice is still true.

 

- I proved to you that John got his farm in 1908 using the guidebook, but "nope guidebook not canon lol".

 

- The Ferry Robbery, from an out-of-universe standpoint, was changed. R* made the Strange Man say "same one you got shot on" to articulate to the players that the Ferry Robbery and the robbery John got shot on were the one and the same. But since the two were never directly mentioned to be the same robbery, they decided to change that. So even if you claim that it isn't a retcon since they only imply it, at the very least that means the backstory was changed.

 

- Fine, I'll give you the one about the dialogue between John and Javier, even if I think it's a stretch.

 

So you debunked only one...Out of nine.

 

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:04 PM, AddamHusayin said:

so there is no need for any further discussion

What if other's want to discuss the retcons? That's seems really inconsiderate.

 

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:04 PM, AddamHusayin said:

Lock this thread mods. Thank you.

Why are you so determined to get the mods to lock the thread?

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