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Cutter De Blanc

Take-Two's stock falls; Analysts predict Red Dead 2 will underperform

Recommended Posts

Jason

@Dr.Rosenthal

 

I 100% agree with you, what you're wanting is basically the exact type of game I love too. The shooter looter games like The Division series do a pretty good job at creating your own character, earning loot and exp to build your character into your own playstyle but I think what you're kinda describing is a proper MMORPG - fully open world, custom character, story, upgrades/abilities to customise your character to your playstyle etc. Those don't really exist these days, the only proper MMORPG's still standing are years old games like FFXIV, Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft. Games like Division, Anthem, Destiny, RDO etc are all basically "MMO-lites", they're designed to give the feel of an MMORPG without the MMO part, but they all fail in various ways at recreating what exactly made those games so addicting and successful. World of Warcraft at one point had well over 10 million monthly paying subscribers, which is success none of these MMO-lite's have come close to recreating but you can be damn sure it's what EA/Activision/etc are all hoping for when they release one of these games.

 

Unfortunately no one seems interesting in making a modern day MMORPG because they're incredibly expensive, time consuming and very risky, so we're stuck with these half and half games, half typical co-op/PvP and half MMO.

 

It's why I said AAA multiplayer is a mess these days. None of the big publishers is willing to take a risk, they're all playing it safe and sound and it's producing games that all have the same problems, that all play in the same way, that all get supported in the same way.

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Adamska_
Posted (edited)

The best MMORPG I played was Runescape back in 2006.

Edited by Adamska_

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MostWantedMVP

Maybe this will give Rockstar a push to release new games more often like they used to. Even Remasters. So many people want remastered of GTA IV and other classics.

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Hmmm nice bike
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MostWantedMVP said:

Maybe this will give Rockstar a push to release new games more often like they used to. Even Remasters. So many people want remastered of GTA IV and other classics. 

While a remaster of GTA IV would be amazing (and overdue, since they missed the 10th anniversary besides removing a chunk of the soundtrack), currently a remaster of RDR1 would be more relevant to them. And easy to do, since New Austin and most of Nuevo Paraiso are remade, they'd just have to make some cosmetic changes to suit the first game's setting and update some of the character models.

 

I'm pretty sure they were working on a remastered Liberty City at some point, too. A former Rockstar employee posted a shot of Middle Park that was clearly redone on V's upgraded engine, and it looks way more detailed than the same spot in-game in IV. Whether this was for a IV remaster that they might have been working on or just a map update to GTA Online that never came to fruition remains to be seen.

FMwwsVh.gif

Edited by Hmmm nice bike

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ThroatSlasher2
4 hours ago, Hmmm nice bike said:

 

FMwwsVh.gif

This looks pretty damn good. How many other great ideas has Rockstar thrown down the drain?

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Lock n' Stock
Posted (edited)

Nah. Can't find any f*cks to give to be honest. Mostly because I feel that all the sh*tty decisions that R* have made recently are down to Take Two.

 

And that remastered LC looks nice. Would have made a great fit for GTA Online but alas, another idea with potential just left to rot.

Edited by Lock n' Stock

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Darealbandicoot
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Lock n' Stock said:

Nah. Can't find any f*cks to give to be honest. Mostly because I feel that all the sh*tty decisions that R* have made recently are down to Take Two.

 

And that remastered LC looks nice. Would have made a great fit for GTA Online but alas, another idea with potential just left to rot.

Rockstar has total freedom to do whatever they want from Take Two compared to Take Two's other subsidiaries. This is 95% on Rockstar. Take Two can't come in and tell them to cancel something due to them making billions off Rockstar and potentially losing them. HOWEVER Strauss Zelnick might give them suggestions to add microtransactions but that's it. 

Edited by Darealbandicoot

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TheSantader25
2 minutes ago, Darealbandicoot said:

Rockstar has total freedom to do whatever they want from Take Two compared to Take Two's other subsidiaries. This is 95% on Rockstar. Take Two can't come in and tell them to cancel something due to them making billions off Rockstar and potentially losing them. HOWEVER Strauss Zelnick might give them suggestions to add microtransactions but that's it. 

So what about the whole OpenIV thing? I certainly think T2 do have influence on certain things. Especially from the financial standpoint. 

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Darealbandicoot
29 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

So what about the whole OpenIV thing? I certainly think T2 do have influence on certain things. Especially from the financial standpoint. 

That was Rockstar telling them what to take down from what I know. Rockstar tells Take Two what mod menus they want taken down and Take Two does it since they are protecting their property. 

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TheSantader25
31 minutes ago, Darealbandicoot said:

That was Rockstar telling them what to take down from what I know. Rockstar tells Take Two what mod menus they want taken down and Take Two does it since they are protecting their property. 

I really don't think so. I heard it was Take Two all along. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2017/06/26/grand-theft-auto-studio-backpedals-after-take-two-shuts-down-openiv-modding-tool/amp/

 

R* are developers. Any decisions that affects anything business related is take two if you ask me. 

 

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Wolver_321
27 minutes ago, Darealbandicoot said:

Rockstar has total freedom to do whatever they want from Take Two compared to Take Two's other subsidiaries. This is 95% on Rockstar. Take Two can't come in and tell them to cancel something due to them making billions off Rockstar and potentially losing them. HOWEVER Strauss Zelnick might give them suggestions to add microtransactions but that's it. 

A company itself doesn't completely change the way of doing business in just a few years. GTA has always been a singleplayer only experience that saw with GTA IV (and EFLC) a nice extra with the multiplayer mode. GTA Online initially was an extra to the singleplayer experience but then, thanks to Shark Cards, the Online took the crown and the singleplayer mode became an extra. When this happened? IMO after the Heists update when they introduced overpriced stuff in Ill-Gotten-Gains part 1 and 2 (last DLCs for old-gen consoles)... These 2 DLCs were released in summer 2015 and guess who got fired in that period? Leslie Benzies, the mind behind GTA 3, GTA VC, GTA SA, GTA IV, RDR, L.A. Noire, Max Payne 3, GTA V (singleplayer) and other "minor" titles; all these games were the reason why Rockstar was a respected and beloved software-house. Now, in some aspects, Rockstar is just like EA or Activision, you can't let people buy an emote with real money (or in-game currency) and you can't put microtransactions in a game that is in "Beta".

 

@TheSantader25 is right, T2 wanted to sue OpenIV and, after a lot of negative reviews on Steam (that are still today influencing the overall score of the game), Rockstar decided to make singleplayer mods again "legal". The only thing that Rockstar banned was the project of bringing Liberty City to GTA V, probably at that time they wanted to use that map in some future project because OpenIV team said very clearly that you needed both GTA IV and GTA V for using the mod.

 

With this I don't want to say that Rcokstar is a charity company that doesn't want to make money, but T2 is surely one of the greedest and worst software houses ever existed. For me Benzies was just an obstacle for Zelnick and T2, so they decided to give him the "Mafia service". "Doesn't he agree with us? Well, let's get rid of him." RDR2 (singleplayer) is an astonishing game that gave me a bit of hope for GTA VI, but I still hope in Everywhere (Benzies' new project). Competition will and will always be a good thing for us as customers, GTA had a lot of "clones" during the years but none of them have been able to beat it. 

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Darealbandicoot
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Wolver_321 said:

A company itself doesn't completely change the way of doing business in just a few years. GTA has always been a singleplayer only experience that saw with GTA IV (and EFLC) a nice extra with the multiplayer mode. GTA Online initially was an extra to the singleplayer experience but then, thanks to Shark Cards, the Online took the crown and the singleplayer mode became an extra. When this happened? IMO after the Heists update when they introduced overpriced stuff in Ill-Gotten-Gains part 1 and 2 (last DLCs for old-gen consoles)... These 2 DLCs were released in summer 2015 and guess who got fired in that period? Leslie Benzies, the mind behind GTA 3, GTA VC, GTA SA, GTA IV, RDR, L.A. Noire, Max Payne 3, GTA V (singleplayer) and other "minor" titles; all these games were the reason why Rockstar was a respected and beloved software-house. Now, in some aspects, Rockstar is just like EA or Activision, you can't let people buy an emote with real money (or in-game currency) and you can't put microtransactions in a game that is in "Beta".

 

@TheSantader25 is right, T2 wanted to sue OpenIV and, after a lot of negative reviews on Steam (that are still today influencing the overall score of the game), Rockstar decided to make singleplayer mods again "legal". The only thing that Rockstar banned was the project of bringing Liberty City to GTA V, probably at that time they wanted to use that map in some future project because OpenIV team said very clearly that you needed both GTA IV and GTA V for using the mod.

 

With this I don't want to say that Rcokstar is a charity company that doesn't want to make money, but T2 is surely one of the greedest and worst software houses ever existed. For me Benzies was just an obstacle for Zelnick and T2, so they decided to give him the "Mafia service". "Doesn't he agree with us? Well, let's get rid of him." RDR2 (singleplayer) is an astonishing game that gave me a bit of hope for GTA VI, but I still hope in Everywhere (Benzies' new project). Competition will and will always be a good thing for us as customers, GTA had a lot of "clones" during the years but none of them have been able to beat it. 

But you missed the part from a few years ago where the Houser brothers and Zelnick started a new partnership for more freedom of choice at Rockstar and more profits for them. GTA Online was Benzies idea and Take Two and the Rockstar higher ups got greedy and ousted him. Just look at what Benzies is making now. Everywhere, an online only game. 

 

Sure, they are a part of Take Two, they have a bunch of daughter companies producing games. It doesn't change the fact that Rockstar doesn't reap the benefits. It's a partnership, not a dictator ship.

 

Take Two and Rockstar Games are partners. It's not a dictatorship like at EA. That's the only reason their games have kept the same high quality all these years. You don't think they're not loving the revenue from cash cards? 

 

 

 

Plus the points Gypsy make here in this video are true. 

 

Edited by Darealbandicoot

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TheSantader25

First of all let me clarify that Online Experiences were Rockstar's dream right from the days of GTA San Andreas. There was an interview with Dan Houser around that time that they were waiting for the right opportunity to build an enormous online experience but 2004 certainly isn't the right time yet. They finally did it with GTA Online. Leslie was the one designing the thing though but the idea of a big GTA ONLINE was there right from San Andreas. So a massive multiplayer experience was always Rockstar's idea. Not Take Two. 

 

Now we all know people like to make money but "decisions" regarding how "far" the "greed" goes always lies within the publisher and investors. Sure Rockstar's relationship may be different in comparison to other devs but still looking at how devs like Bioware get destroyed and how Devs like Blizzard go downhill like that, I think it's safe to say most of the greedy bullsh*t hell that has been f*cking the industry up in the last couple of years is a result of the "publishers". 

 

I hold R* responsible for two things. Massive "f*ck you" to them because of these two:

1. Forgetting that they are making "Video games" and not movies ever since GTA IV and not paying enough attention to Gameplay. 

2. Letting T2 going this far. R* are a big money maker for T2. They could definitely "control" them to some extent if they wanted to. But in the end, money smells good. 

 

A bigger "f*ck You" to take 2 for their greed. 

 

In the end R* is like that good kid in school who basically falls into the wrong path because of a bad influence(T2) but since the "wrong path" is fun, Never bothers to stop the destruction even if he is not completely responsible. 

 

In short, this industry is going to sh*t. You still gotta enjoy what you can and R* still deliver quality wise. But it's a damn shame to think how further they could've gone if it wasn't for Take Two. 

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Wolver_321
3 minutes ago, Darealbandicoot said:

But you missed the part from a few years ago where the Houser brothers and Zelnick started a new partnership for more freedom of choice at Rockstar and more profits for them. GTA Online was Benzies idea and Take Two and the Rockstar higher ups got greedy and ousted him. Just look at what Benzies is making now. Everywhere, an online only game. 

Yes, GTA Online was Benzies' idea, but I don't think that the current state of the game matches his original idea. And who said that Everywhere is an online only game? We don't even know if Everywhere will be the final name of the game, how can we know if it'll be online only? According to Wikipedia, it says: "It is set in an open world environment, and will feature seamless cooperative multiplayer." Actually I didn't know that an online mode was confirmed, but there's a very big difference between "it will feature seamless cooperative multiplayer" and "it will be a multiplayer-only game".

 

So why Benzies got fired? Because of the "more freedom" brang up by this partnership? Well, there was a lot of freedom in the decision of banning OpenIV!

Rockstar, thanks to its popularity, could easily develop games without T2 "help" and Zelnick, who's not stupid (and not interested at all about consumers) knew since the beginning how GTA Online could have become a cash cow. When you conceed more freedom is because you're scared to lose something, I don't know if a "Rockstarexit" was a thing but surely something happened.

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Darealbandicoot
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Wolver_321 said:

Yes, GTA Online was Benzies' idea, but I don't think that the current state of the game matches his original idea. And who said that Everywhere is an online only game? We don't even know if Everywhere will be the final name of the game, how can we know if it'll be online only? According to Wikipedia, it says: "It is set in an open world environment, and will feature seamless cooperative multiplayer." Actually I didn't know that an online mode was confirmed, but there's a very big difference between "it will feature seamless cooperative multiplayer" and "it will be a multiplayer-only game".

 

So why Benzies got fired? Because of the "more freedom" brang up by this partnership? Well, there was a lot of freedom in the decision of banning OpenIV!

Rockstar, thanks to its popularity, could easily develop games without T2 "help" and Zelnick, who's not stupid (and not interested at all about consumers) knew since the beginning how GTA Online could have become a cash cow. When you conceed more freedom is because you're scared to lose something, I don't know if a "Rockstarexit" was a thing but surely something happened.

Actually yes! Dan, Sam and Leslie were planning to leave Rockstar to set up their own video game studio around the time Take Two gave Rockstar their current freedom.

 

Also I'm pretty sure Benzies got fired because of the Housers greed over money if the lawsuit is to be believed.

 

 

 

Also, Everywhere official website makes it seem very much like its online only 

 

https://www.buildarocketboy.com/game/

Edited by Darealbandicoot

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ThroatSlasher2

At this point, it's like who cares about Rockstar? We know we won't see a damn thing from them for the next 3 to 4 years anyway and then all of a sudden they'll announce a title. On release, it'll be praised for its incredible singleplayer storyline and no one will talk about the horrendous 2007 controls and game design. Then they'll leave this literal pot of gold to rot and make a sh*tty online mode that may or may not underperform (if it's GTA, it'll work).

 

Rinse and repeat.

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Jimbatron
3 hours ago, Darealbandicoot said:

Also I'm pretty sure Benzies got fired because of the Housers greed over money if the lawsuit is to be believed.

 

Digression but having witnessed some high level conflicts play out where I've worked (one company being a high level FTSE 100 where the top brass were banking 10s of millions a year) I would say it's almost certainly not about money. This lot are already rich enough not to care. I'd be very surprised if it was not about power and control for it's own sake.

 

I know nothing about the Housers or Benzies as people because I haven't met them. Possibly they're saints or they're nasty people, but the majority of us really have no clue. However none of the three are people who waltzed into a company that was already a huge success and knifed their way to the top (which is common with a lot of C-level people sadly). All three of them were instrumental in building a franchise. And therefore there's more emotional attachment, and more at stake - hence power and control have even greater weight.

 

Again, I'm guessing but to me it smacks of a high level philosophical/strategic disagreement about future direction. Regardless of who was in the right (if anyone was, and we just don't know, I certainly wouldn't believe everything in the lawsuits or take it as the full truth), the Housers were always going to win because they are brothers. If it's three unrelated people in conflict two will join forces and the other loses, but this one was destined to pan out one way only because of the family factor.

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