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Typhus

Unpopular Opinions about RDR2

Recommended Posts

Smokewood
On 2/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, Morgan said:

One of my favorite games of all time in terms of experience but still:

 

- There where a lot of missions to fill up the chapters and because of that lost the feeling that I was on the run with the gang a lot of times

 

Do a play through where you don't pay off your bounties.....

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Typhus
14 hours ago, éX-Driver said:

Had the game been set in say 1886 during the height of the Old West and the Indian Wars? Would’ve been a much better game methinks.

I completely agree with this. Before we knew much about the game, I was hoping to God it wouldn't be a prequel, because I really wanted Rockstar to take the game in a different direction.

On a related note, I really do feel like they should have taken a gamble and set the game during the American Civil War. With the quality of their writing, they could have told an amazing story, one which would be very topical to modern American sensibilities. But so much of what we got in RDR2 really just feels like a rehash of a story we've already seen. A beautifully written, incredibly acted rehash. But a rehash all the same.

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Marcinguy

One thing I kind of missed was dueling. At the end of RDR 1 you get to duel Ross and there are a couple other moments. There were no real one on one standoffs for Arthur except that one stranger mission with the old gunslinger. You can do the duel mechanic anywhere sure. But if there is no real context or setup there, it's kind of a hollow experience. The whole game was just shooting waves of generic enemies while all the big fish were basically killed off in a cut scene. I thought for sure Arthur would have a gun duel with Micah at the end. Was just waiting for it. Instead just got a heavily scripted fight scene. I think the story would have faired better with a couple of strong Antagonists going down the way of a quick draw battle. Like with Milton at the end for instance. But no.

 

Dueling is pretty much synonymous with the wild west (at least in the movies), but there was no Doc Holiday vs Johnny Ringo type stuff here. At least not with any enemies of note. There was plenty of opportunity here to give us some good ol' fashioned duels in the streets but we got nothing.

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ShayD
21 minutes ago, Marcinguy said:

Dueling is pretty much synonymous with the wild west (at least in the movies), but there was no Doc Holiday vs Johnny Ringo type stuff here. At least not with any enemies of note. There was plenty of opportunity here to give us some good ol' fashioned duels in the streets but we got nothing.

the only duel we needed was the one where the drunk guy collapses in the street according to R*

Edited by ShayD

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Smokewood
54 minutes ago, Marcinguy said:

One thing I kind of missed was dueling. At the end of RDR 1 you get to duel Ross and there are a couple other moments. There were no real one on one standoffs for Arthur except that one stranger mission with the old gunslinger. You can do the duel mechanic anywhere sure. But if there is no real context or setup there, it's kind of a hollow experience. The whole game was just shooting waves of generic enemies while all the big fish were basically killed off in a cut scene. I thought for sure Arthur would have a gun duel with Micah at the end. Was just waiting for it. Instead just got a heavily scripted fight scene. I think the story would have faired better with a couple of strong Antagonists going down the way of a quick draw battle. Like with Milton at the end for instance. But no.

 

Dueling is pretty much synonymous with the wild west (at least in the movies), but there was no Doc Holiday vs Johnny Ringo type stuff here. At least not with any enemies of note. There was plenty of opportunity here to give us some good ol' fashioned duels in the streets but we got nothing.

 

33 minutes ago, ShayD said:

the only duel we needed was the one where the drunk guy collapses in the street according to R*

You can officially duel anyone with a weapon. Just stand in front on an NPC and start slowly pulling in the RT. The NPC will draw on you. 

Edited by Smokewood

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éX-Driver
1 hour ago, Typhus said:

I completely agree with this. Before we knew much about the game, I was hoping to God it wouldn't be a prequel, because I really wanted Rockstar to take the game in a different direction.

On a related note, I really do feel like they should have taken a gamble and set the game during the American Civil War. With the quality of their writing, they could have told an amazing story, one which would be very topical to modern American sensibilities. But so much of what we got in RDR2 really just feels like a rehash of a story we've already seen. A beautifully written, incredibly acted rehash. But a rehash all the same.

The problem with setting it during the War Between the States is the guns. The vast majority would be muzzleloaders. And let’s face it, the average player wouldn’t have the patience for them. Look at how many players abandoned revolvers for the C93 and C96 as soon as they could because “the revolvers fire too slow”. Now imagine if they had to take 20 seconds to reload after every shot. People complain about how slow the gameplay is NOW. There’s a reason there’s not been a single dedicated shooter game set before 1880 that’s actually sold with any respectable numbers.

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Marcinguy
On 2/12/2019 at 10:17 AM, Smokewood said:

 

You can officially duel anyone with a weapon. Just stand in front on an NPC and start slowly pulling in the RT. The NPC will draw on you. 

 

Yes I know, but I'm not talking about dueling random NPCs. I mean something with a little build up where you finally take down a nemesis after a few run ins or at least some good trash talk dialogue. A little more storytelling as to why you're even dueling in the first place.

 

Anyway, using that dueling mechanic doesn't mean the NPC knows you're about to draw. They are not ready to draw themselves.

 

Now I do remember though there was that duel with the bounty you track down out of Strawberry. THat was kind of what I'm talking about. A little build up with an interesting character and then a proper duel.

Edited by Marcinguy

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Satanta
5 hours ago, RyuNova said:

 

  Hide contents

Yep, its just Johns model stretched over Arthurs skeleton.

 

Spoiler

Sort pf like stretching Mini-Me over Arnold Schwarzenegger....  "AAAIIIGGGHHHH!!!!"

 

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RyuNova
1 hour ago, Satanta said:
  Hide contents

Sort pf like stretching Mini-Me over Arnold Schwarzenegger....  "AAAIIIGGGHHHH!!!!"

 

 

Rule 34...

 

Spoiler

But seriously watch Epilogue John when he is playing Poker and you will see Arthur's facial structure appear when he does animations. Give him the same beard you had when playing as Arthur to make it more similar and you will see it.

 

I always used to think people were exaggerating when they said that John ran like he had sh*t himself until I actually played as John. Covered that up with a long coat as soon as possible. 

 

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Satanta
7 hours ago, RyuNova said:

 

Rule 34...

 

  Hide contents

 Covered that up with a long coat as soon as possible. 

 

Lol!  Well, being a Texas boy and living some of that life-not the Outlaw stuff but the horses and ranching and living in the woods as a photographer I can tell you-boots aint made for running.  Hell, we don't even like to walk if we can ride a horse or take a truck-mail box 9 meters away?  Time to get the horse to go get the mail.  ;D

 

We can move real quick for short distances-like to keep from getting bit by a rattler or in case a wild hog comes out of the bushes at you but we aint doing no 200 meter dash!

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JC Hammer
On 2/8/2019 at 10:37 PM, Cutter De Blanc said:

I hope that their online mode becomes an utter failure

Your wish has come true...

 

Take-Two Stock Falls

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O.Z

After all the Red Dead games, John Marston remains as the top dog of the whole franchise. 

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ShayD
4 hours ago, O.Z said:

After all the Red Dead games, John Marston remains as the top dog of the whole franchise. 

I think alot of people would disagree with that. After playing RDR2 I can't stand John. He wasn't a bad ass, he ran away, could barely work on his own and doesn't really care for his family. I'd guess if Arthur hadn't told him to get out and save his family he would've abandoned them again. Arthur makes john look like straight up trash.

But, just my opinion.

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RyuNova
12 minutes ago, ShayD said:

I think alot of people would disagree with that. After playing RDR2 I can't stand John. He wasn't a bad ass, he ran away, could barely work on his own and doesn't really care for his family. I'd guess if Arthur hadn't told him to get out and save his family he would've abandoned them again. Arthur makes john look like straight up trash.

But, just my opinion.

 

John became a better man because of Arthur. RDR1 John is a direct result of Arthur.

Yes, he perhaps does it because of some internal guilt and to honour Arthur but he still does it. And the other thing is Arthur did not do it because hes loved or even liked John. He did t because hes a good man who puts family first. John was his brother and he was willing, more than once, to die for him.

Edited by RyuNova

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ShayD
3 minutes ago, RyuNova said:

 

John became a better man because of Arthur. RDR1 John is a direct result of Arthur.

Yes, he perhaps does it because of some internal guilt and to honour Arthur but he still does it.

So if Arthur had been killed by say, Agent Milton or Colm O'Driscoll, would John have still ended up the same way? 

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RyuNova
22 minutes ago, ShayD said:

So if Arthur had been killed by say, Agent Milton or Colm O'Driscoll, would John have still ended up the same way? 

 

I doubt it, before Arthur and Sadie rescued him from Sisika he was a selfish prick who tolerated Abigail and Jack but Arthur showed him that man can be better because he risked his life to save him after all. Brothers, not by blood but by bond.

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O.Z
49 minutes ago, ShayD said:

I think alot of people would disagree with that. After playing RDR2 I can't stand John. He wasn't a bad ass, he ran away, could barely work on his own and doesn't really care for his family. I'd guess if Arthur hadn't told him to get out and save his family he would've abandoned them again. Arthur makes john look like straight up trash.

But, just my opinion.

Hmm... you sound a lot like people who are still bitter that Rockstar decided to kill Arthur and you then play as John Martson.

 

When comparing who is more of a badass, it’s John > Arthur any day long. 

 

Arthur was good with words and he has incredible voice acting, but that’s about it. He didn’t kill anyone significant in the whole game. John Marston on the other hand has many famous scalps on his record. 

 

Arthur is still a magnificent character, but John is a better gunslinger any day long

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RyuNova

John is a little bitch who gets told to do stuff and all he does is try and glare menacingly and then scurries off to do as he is told. Both Seth and Irish treated him like a bitch and he meekly did as he was told after mumbling under his breath at them.

 

John talks tough but hes a ittle bitch who does as he is told by people he could break in half, Arthur does what is asked of him because he wants to not because he has to.

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happygrowls
2 minutes ago, RyuNova said:

John is a little bitch who gets told to do stuff and all he does is try and glare menacingly and then scurries off to do as he is told. Both Seth and Irish treated him like a bitch and he meekly did as he was told after mumbling under his breath at them.

 

John talks tough but hes a ittle bitch who does as he is told by people he could break in half

You seem to forget that Seth and Irish were literally some of the only leads on Bill. Literally John was trying not to be who he once was, a murdering outlaw. He is trying his best for his family, not himself anymore.

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Richard Power Colt
On 2/7/2019 at 11:46 PM, Vinewood Villain said:

The story isn't quite as good as everyone makes it out to be. It's big, like really long, and has great performances. But there were so many stupid missions. Like that one time you, Lenny and Dutch massacre half the town on that trolley. Then the story pretends that never happens. Then when they rob the Saint Denis bank a few missions later, all the sudden it's a big deal when the cops show up. There are a lot of filler missions, especially chapter 3. Chapter 3 barely moved the plot forward, not until Jack was kidnapped. 

This is maybe the most immersion-breaking thing in the game. They try to keep things pretty grounded with the story and characters, but in most of the missions you're just a superhero massacring dozens of people on your own. It kind of eliminates a lot of the tension from the story when the characters keep acting like they're always in danger even though you're pretty much capable of killing an army by yourself.

 

I kinda would love a western game like this where you could die from like one or two shots and even having to face a couple of NPCs would actually be dangerous. In the beginning of the game you actually do have pretty low health which I liked, but then they ruin that by giving you a bunch of health upgrades when you progress through the game.

Edited by Richard Power Colt

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RyuNova
14 minutes ago, happygrowls said:

You seem to forget that Seth and Irish were literally some of the only leads on Bill. Literally John was trying not to be who he once was, a murdering outlaw. He is trying his best for his family, not himself anymore.

 

Oh I am sure that the legions of faceless goons he has killed without a moments hesitation will understand why he did not just kneecap Seth and Irish for the information that would have led to an alternate solution that was not their deaths.

Killing two reprobates would have stopped him cutting a bloody swath across the Southern US but sure murdering hundreds more than was needed makes him not a murdering outlaw.

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ShayD
1 hour ago, O.Z said:

Arthur was good with words and he has incredible voice acting, but that’s about it. He didn’t kill anyone significant in the whole game. John Marston on the other hand has many famous scalps on his record. 

 

Arthur is still a magnificent character, but John is a better gunslinger any day long

Johns only famous scalps are Bill Dutch and Javier, who werent really tough guys at all in the way they were made out. He also had help killing nearly every target he was after, be it from the army, Marshall Johnsons men, the Bureau or the Mexicans. He went to face Bill on his own and got a bullet for his trouble, John wasnt even fully responsible for taking out Micah, that was more Dutch than him so that pretty much shuts down your argument about him being more of a bad ass and better gunslinger.

Edited by ShayD

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O.Z
9 minutes ago, ShayD said:

Johns only famous scalps are Bill Dutch and Javier, who werent really tough guys at all in the way they were made out. He also had help killing nearly every target he was after, be it from the army, Marshall Johnsons men, the Bureau or the Mexicans. He went to face Bill on his own and got a bullet for his trouble, John wasnt even fully responsible for taking out Micah, that was more Dutch than him so that pretty much shuts down your argument about him being more of a bad ass and better gunslinger.

Not really... Arthur Morgan didn’t kill anyway remotely significant at all. Just face it, John Marston is a better gunslinger and more famous outlaw than Mr. Morgan. 

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ShayD
31 minutes ago, O.Z said:

Not really... Arthur Morgan didn’t kill anyway remotely significant at all. Just face it, John Marston is a better gunslinger and more famous outlaw than Mr. Morgan. 

like I said, Marston tried once on his own to take down Bill and ate a bullet, all evidence points to the contrary - that he can't handle a challenge on his own, he's essentially useless without help. Show some evidence to back up your claim and I'll withdraw my argument.

 

EDIT; Arthur actually did kill 3 famous gunslingers on his own, alot more than John ever did.

Edited by ShayD

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Marcinguy
1 hour ago, O.Z said:

Not really... Arthur Morgan didn’t kill anyway remotely significant at all. Just face it, John Marston is a better gunslinger and more famous outlaw than Mr. Morgan. 

 

I was actually in pretty big disbelief that there was no duel against Milton at the end. I was sitting there thinking "alright here we go, final showdown" after I just walked down the street like a lone badass while killing Pinkertons left and right . Big letdown there with how that all ended. I also expected there to be a duel between Arthur and Micah at the end too. The final fight was a bit of a let down as well, but I suppose they needed Micah to survive so John can take him down later. 

 

 

Edited by Marcinguy

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RyuNova
1 hour ago, ShayD said:

EDIT; Arthur actually did kill 3 famous gunslingers on his own, alot more than John ever did.

 

He does have a point, three Legendary Gunslingers. And impressed the fourth.

 

One of the major issues I saw people have with RDR1 (Nitpicking as there were few) was that John was just another classic "Rockstar Errand Boy" character who act tough but do as they are told by less characters.

 

50 minutes ago, Marcinguy said:

I was actually in pretty big disbelief that there was no duel against Milton at the end. I was sitting there thinking "alright here we go, final showdown" after I just walked down the street like a lone badass while killing Pinkertons left and right . Big letdown there with how that all ended. I also expected there to be a duel between Arthur and Micah at the end too. The final fight was a bit of a let down as well, but I suppose they needed Micah to survive so John can take him down later. 

 

 

f*ck Milton, he dd not deserve a honourable death and the undertones you are missing is that Milton was killed by a woman. The woman he cowardly used as bait to draw someone into a trap. it was a trap as well, he did not need that many men to transport one woman.

His death was sudden, quick and brutal and came from an unlikely place. A generic "My name is Arthur Morgan, you hunted my Gang...prepare to die" duel would have been too cliche.

Edited by RyuNova

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O.Z
1 hour ago, ShayD said:

EDIT; Arthur actually did kill 3 famous gunslingers on his own, alot more than John ever did.

No he doesn’t, I killed them all as John Marston. 

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Cutter De Blanc
On 2/10/2019 at 7:58 AM, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

No point arguing in the thread as it's literally just about unpopular opinions.

 

I dont agree with half the stuff in here but debating them would defeat the purpose of the thread. 

 

On 2/10/2019 at 8:21 AM, Mach1bud said:

This. Quit with the bickering.

 

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ShayD
8 minutes ago, O.Z said:

No he doesn’t, I killed them all as John Marston. 

If thats the only thing you can use to prove John was the better gunslinger then you've made my point for me. Plus killing them as Arthur is how it really should be done, since he's the one who picks up the mission. Same can be said for any mission started as Arthur.

 

EDIT- I'll just finish this here, sorry for going off topic lol

Edited by ShayD

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O.Z
1 minute ago, ShayD said:

If thats the only thing you can use to prove John was the better gunslinger then you've made my point for me. Plus killing them as Arthur is how it really should be done, since he's the one who picks up the mission. 

Of course not, it just shows that Arthur didn’t really kill anyone significant in the main campaign, you are just mentioning the gunslinger side missions, that I did with John(apart from Shady Belle). I’m not going to argue this over and over, imo John is a better gunslinger and an outlaw. 

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