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Typhus

Unpopular Opinions about RDR2

Recommended Posts

The Wolf Man

Honestly... Red Dead Revolver is an average game.

What made the Red Dead series great was the 2010 game Red Dead Redemption, its themes and characters. Red Dead Redemption 2 expanded upon it, and made it even better.

If a new game does not feature any of these things (themes and characters), then it will be something totally different and it should not be called Red Dead Redemption, but Red Dead something else instead. If this is the point you are trying to make then I agree with you.

Edited by The Wolf Man
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ilovefreebird

I decided to buy this game recently because GTAO has been boring. Holy hell, is this how new players in GTAO feel? There are SO, SO many pop ups, info boxes, and things screaming at me that I don't even know where to start. It's taken me 3 different times to complete the online setup - I get so annoyed by all the random crap on the screen that I shut the game off. Last night, I got to the point where I'm in my own camp and I guess I can start exploring or whatever, but I had so many notifications that I decided to take another break. This game is absolutely ridiculous; I now understand how a low level player might feel overwhelmed their first few times in GTA.

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LeonVegaSuarez

Not being able to freely explore New Austin as Arthur is the worst non feature in the game.

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Western Gunslinger

The Grizzlies Mountain's is pretty underwhelming IMO because the layout is oddly linear compared to the rest of the map

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tonko

Game really suffers cause of Mexico's absence. Guarma chapter made it even worse.

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Petko

Sliding mechanics are one of the most annoying features of the game. Just head from Owanjila towards Tall Trees where the red map begins and go down the cliffs then trying coming back up, see what i am talking about...

Edited by Petko
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Western Gunslinger

RDRII should've had a fame system

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Vladistar_895

I still wish Nuevo Paraiso was in RDR II and New Austin&West Elizabeth with Arthur as an epilogue. 

I wish duels with RDR I style would be in RDR II.

I hate the honor system. It could been like RDR I,at least.

 

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Spadge

- I really like Micah and Bill Williamson.

 

- I really couldn't care less about Online. I think they should just scrap that idea alltogether and focus on story DLC. GTA Online was fine, but let's stop here. When compared to what's on the market right now, RD Online is okay, but not remarkable, I think we could get much more greatness if Rockstar focused on story DLC rather than online content. GTA IV story DLC was killer, I want sh*t like that instead of Fetch Quest online.

 

Also San Andreas incorporated multiplayer done right in the form of co-op on the playstation back then. I'd much rather have co-op for some mission and invite people into my game, or maybe a GTA IV style multiplayer, rather than this streamline cookie cutter GTA/RD online™ BS made by rockstar.

Edited by Spadge
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LeonVegaSuarez
On 2/13/2020 at 7:11 PM, LeonVegaSuarez said:

Not being able to freely explore New Austin as Arthur is the worst non feature in the game.

The second worst non feature is that you can't ask gang members to come with you. It was heavily implied as a feature in trailers and just didnt make it in the game. A real shame.

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Geisterfaust
6 hours ago, Spadge said:

I really couldn't care less about Online. I think they should just scrap that idea alltogether and focus on story DLC. GTA Online was fine, but let's stop here.

Online in RD is a joke. R* have only succeeded with the approach they have used in GTA because it was GTA.

6 hours ago, Spadge said:

I think we could get much more greatness if Rockstar focused on story DLC rather than online content. GTA IV story DLC was killer, I want sh*t like that instead of Fetch Quest online.

Amen to that, EFLC were the best! Can't believe it was 10 years ago.

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LeonVegaSuarez

I really love that Tumbleweed is populated in RDR2, but I wish Armadillo was the same. Mostly for nostalgic reasons but also because New Austin feels empty enough already. 

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Western Gunslinger
On 2/24/2020 at 7:22 PM, LeonVegaSuarez said:

The second worst non feature is that you can't ask gang members to come with you. It was heavily implied as a feature in trailers and just didnt make it in the game. A real shame.

3qoh5q.jpg

Lol, it's definitely cut, yet they forgot to remove the tips for it

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JetNormalGuy

My biggest Unpopular Opinion :

 

I find the gambler's challenges fun.

plz dont hate me :turn:

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Western Gunslinger

As much as I loved Charles and Sadie. I don't mind having them killed during American Venom 

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Jutland

Shady Belle is the best camp

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Kubigz

I know I will rot in hell for this

 

Spoiler

John does not look that bad with Arthur's hairstyle 

 

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LeonVegaSuarez
1 hour ago, Kubigz said:

I know I will rot in hell for this

 

  Hide contents

John does not look that bad with Arthur's hairstyle 

 

I agree. I got it at length seven, right part with pomade and it looks good to me.

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Mr. Jabe

(*SPOILERS*) Not sure if this is exactly an unpopular opinion but....

 

....I would have preferred Rockstar take the time and effort to implement and visually update New Austin and instead have put that into changing more of the new map up for the 1907 version. The passage of time is of course shown in a few areas (Pronghorn Ranch, Wapiti, the development of Blackwater etc.) but overall the map is basically the same in most key areas. Rather than including the admittedly beautiful (but ultimate quite hollow in terms of the lack of "life") New Austin remake, that time could have been spent further committing to the game's theme of being part of a changing world i.e. seeing the Oil Fields being taken over by a new company so as to emphasise the inevitability of industrial progress, rather than them just them laying there vacant for 8 years; seeing Braithwaite Manor becoming something entirely new (maybe a new port town) rather than the rubble just staying there surrounded by the still intact dwellings (which don't make sense considering they all likely wouldn't have jobs anymore); maybe seeing the decline and even end of Valentine as it's inhabitants finally get forced towards the more industrialised towns and cities such as Annesburg and St. Denis. Considering how change is the story's key theme it just seems like a missed opportunity to not have altered the map more in this regard - it just doesn't feel different enough when riding around 8 years later as John Marston.

 

I do understand why they included New Austin - more gameplay and content opportunities; a bigger world for online; it having proved difficult to justify it's exclusion considering the lack of significant land barrier between there and West Elizabeth. And we know from the original map leaks that the inclusion was a relatively last minute decision so maybe it didn't impact on what Rockstar were planning for the "new" map. Still, I could have easily left the somewhat nostalgic (but ultimately quite dissonant in terms of the continuity implications and lacking sense of "life") experience of a remade New Austin in favour of much more dynamic and evolving map for the new locations.

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Peckinpah

I'll get absolutely bashed for this but here goes.

 

Completed my second play through today and I still do not like May I Stand Unshaken and the one that plays as Arthur rides back to camp just before the final mission. Fine songs on their own if you like that kind of thing but they don't sound like they belong to that time period or even belong anywhere near a Western, they didn't hit me the way Far Away did in RDR1 when you rode through Mexico. That song sounded like it belonged i.e sound recording etc, those two in RDR2 just sounded soo... clean?

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Mr. Jabe
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peckinpah said:

I'll get absolutely bashed for this but here goes.

 

Completed my second play through today and I still do not like May I Stand Unshaken and the one that plays as Arthur rides back to camp just before the final mission. Fine songs on their own if you like that kind of thing but they don't sound like they belong to that time period or even belong anywhere near a Western, they didn't hit me the way Far Away did in RDR1 when you rode through Mexico. That song sounded like it belonged i.e sound recording etc, those two in RDR2 just sounded soo... clean?

I think that speaks to RDR2 not really being a "Western" but more so a period drama. Technically most Westerns are period dramas due to the historical setting but of course you can have contemporary or even sci-fi/futuristic Westerns which are obviously not period. RDR2 clearly contains the expected iconography, setting and character-types of a "Western" and certainly is/was marketed in that vein. Ultimately though, I think the game strikes its own individual tone unlike any Western I have ever seen and is much more concerned with the actual historical time period than it is with living up to the staples of its supposed genre. I agree when you say those songs (and even the game's music in general) don't fit when you consider the game in that vein, however, when considering the story of Arthur and the changing American landscape in isolation, I think they fit really well. I'll admit I was somewhat disconcerted when I first heard Unshaken and its more modern/foreign aspects but as the story progressed further and its meaning became clearer within the broader context I came to admire Rockstar's creative decisions with it (plus I think it was also riffing off/taking license from the whole Guarma excursion which really marked the separation from the expected "Western" tone).  

Edited by Mr. Jabe
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m3ssO

Arthurs personality should change with honor. The dialog system should change his opinion too. Also you should have different options for who to side with.

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Gtaman_92
Posted (edited)

I think Micah was a badly written antagonist. A excellent villain is someone who at least has some redeemable qualities about themselves as well as a solid motivation for their actions that even most of the viewers would even agree with. We didn’t really get any of that with

Micah, he just seemed too much like a western Trevor Philips. It was obvious from the start that he was gonna be the one to rat the gang out.

Edited by Gtaman_92
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Mr. Jabe
9 hours ago, Gtaman_92 said:

I think Micah was a badly written antagonist. A excellent villain is someone who at least has some redeemable qualities about themselves as well as a solid motivation for their actions that even most of the viewers would even agree with. We didn’t really get any of that with

Micah, he just seemed too much like a western Trevor Philips. It was obvious from the start that he was gonna be the one to rat the gang out.

I think he was a good villain but a bad antagonist. He was appropriately unlikeable as a villain whose death made for a fittingly cathartic moment. Kudos to the writing and performance for that. But as an antagonistic role in the story, like you say, he was too one-dimensional to really be interesting. Even Trevor had more backstory and depth to try and make his psycopathic actions somewhat understandable.

 

I think his worst crime as an antagonist though is how he detracts from what should have been the key antagonistic force of the story - Dutch. The original Red Dead made it clear that it was Dutch's descent into madness and self-destructive nature that was the main cause of the gang's downfall. Whilst this obviously plays a part in RDR2, it definitely gets sidelined as Micah takes centre stage as the focus of first Arthur and then John's grievance. Also, the way in which Dutch gets so easily manipulated and taken with Micah at certain points of the narrative I think serve to make him look foolish as much as anything else - it takes away from some of the gravitas surrounding his character, I would say. 

 

I would much rather have seen Dutch's antagonism become the main focus by the end of the story - after all, this is the man who would easily and cold-bloodedly shoot an innocent woman through the back of the head come the time of the original game. I never saw him decline to that level at any point in RDR2 - if anything it was if the writers still wanted to keep him redeemable. Hence his shooting of Micah and sparing of John. It was as if they used Micah as way of still keeping Dutch relatable and sympathetic, but I think it rather served to weaken his character somewhat and really didn't fit with what we were told/saw in the original.

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Western Gunslinger

I found a pretty spot-on criticism regarding the bounty system on another forum

 

Quote

This (bounty system) damn near ruins the game unless you just play it for the outdoors stuff (we're at complete opposites when it comes to that). Other games have managed it a lot better.

 

Can't get away with sh*t because the Old West is apparently crawling with people (somebody will always come across your path while you're dealing with a problem). Making it easier to get away with stuff would have improved it. But, what's really messed up is that there's no way to reduce your bounty that's reasonable. Here's my three-point system for fixing this sh*ttiness:

 

1. You need to be able to reduce your bounty. Old Assassin's Creed games did a good job with this by giving you tasks you could do. Tearing down wanted posters in towns, shooting specific officials/intimidating people/etc., and probably killing bounty hunters ought to reduce the bounty. You can think of this as maybe not being that you're bounty is actually going down, but that people are so scared of you that the government has to pay a higher bounty just to get the same amount of people after you.

 

2. You need to be able to kill everybody in a skirmish and have time to retreat. The worst part of both missions and free roaming for me was that there's just MAGICALLY huge armies of mounted police ready to intercept you. In GTA and Watch_Dogs and other games it's fine, because you just sort of assume that they're communicating via radio/phones. Here, though, its completely unrealistic and it spoils immersion in addition to being a sh*tty game mechanic (you can't get away from a horse chase like you can a car chase).

 

Towns should have a limited number of police with maybe a few rounds of reinforcements of greatly increasing time. If you shoot up Valentine, then they'd call in the posse from around Valentine's surroundings, adding in some people. But, if you wipe out them, then they'd have to call in people from a place like Strawberry or Rhodes, which would take forever.

 

Bounty hunters need to come less frequently, and it would be better if they worked more like gang ambushes. I like bounty hunters but they're too common at the higher levels.

 

3. Saint Denis is just going to be broken no matter what unless it's given some sort of social stealth (blend into a crowd) or hiding spots. I'm not asking for Assassin's Creed stealth, but something very basic so you can actually lose the cops. It would also help if police, maybe in all regions, escalate violence more gradually, like the cops in Saint Denis trying to beat you down with clubs until you open fire or beat down a few.

 

4. Thematically, I think it may have been better if the game had been designed so that the bounty acted like a level-up system which makes regions harder and doesn't go away. I like how the game makes areas instant-wanted-level for a while after shootouts. If it didn't have the bounty system I described in point 1, I think it would have been neat if bounty went up from both crime and missions, and increased the danger to the player, but didn't increase it THAT much. So it makes the game harder and harder over time, makes a region more hostile, but it's something that you can cope with even at high levels. I loved how Roanoke Ridge becomes this hostile area where you're constantly hunted, but by smaller gangs of Pinkertons. I wish that the whole map became like that.

 

5. This doesn't have much to do with the crime system, but I wish Strawberry had more stuff to do and the Grizzlies were a bit more lively. It took me forever to figure out that there was a trapper, hotel, and other basics in Roanoke Ridge. It'd be nice if you could at least encounter wandering merchant wagons or camps to play games like poker up in the mountains. And not being able to shoot or do anything in the Indian reservation is complete bullsh*t. They could have just made it a normal town like the others, maybe moving the Roanoke Ridge trapper to it and adding a saloon.

 

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Petko

Not only that but bounty hunters look a lot like each other. They just used the same model with the same clothes over and over again. They do have different lines though but i still think their wardrobe should have varied more.

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JupeShot92
Posted (edited)

There were lots of little plot threads that I was sure would go in a certain direction but they ended up going nowhere, leaving me disappointed. 

 

For example I thought that the Wapiti Indians would end up being Dutch's Native American gang from the first game, that Dutch would end up killing Rains Fall and taking over the tribe and disappearing with them at the end after his own gang fell apart. The fact that Eagle Flies and Paytah seemed to have fallen under Dutch's spell made me sure of this. They all just disappeared off to Canada though so I guess Dutch just hooked up with another group of Natives in those four years after the Epilogue. 

 

I thought the Pinkerton's claim that they only wanted Dutch and that they were willing to spare the rest of the gang in exchange for him would end up going somewhere. I thought maybe Hosea would try to make a deal with them to try to save the rest of the gang because Dutch had lost his mind and was going to lead them all to ruin anyway. I thought maybe Dutch would find this out and ask Arthur to kill Hosea and that you would be given the choice to spare him if you wanted to. The fact that Hosea and Dutch were always arguing made me sure this was going to happen too and I thought the fact that Hosea was old and unwell and would probably be dead in a few years anyway would be one of the reasons to justify sparing him. Nothing came of this either. Micah did rat for certain but he definitely wasn't trying to save the rest of the gang, Dutch was only person he didn't want to get rid of, because he knew where the Blackwater money was. 

 

I thought the boat from the Blackwater robbery would end up being the Serendipity because its wreck is situated just outside of Blackwater in the first game. You can't find the wreck there in the RDR2 epilogue though so I guess some other steamboat sank outside of Blackwater in the four years after the epilogue. 

 

These are all personal gripes though so I thought they would count as unpopular opinions. 

Edited by JupeShot92
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Dark Rosewood Varnish
Posted (edited)

I don't really understand peoples complaints about New Austin being empty and barren. It's more or less the same as it was in RDR1 but this time around Armadillo is deserted and Tumbleweed is populated. Maybe it seems more empty because no missions take place there but for me it's not that much different to what it was like in the first game. 

 

Theres also a number of NPC interactions you can have in Armadillo that revolve around the Cholera narrative, like the guy who sets the bodies in the pit on fire gradually becoming infected himself after numerous interactions with him. Theres also the random shack that blows up - which for me was one of the coolest random events in the entire game, just because of how unexpected it was, the bounty missions in Tumbleweed, gang hideout at Fort Mercer, numerous random events with the Del Lobos like the one where they're all sleeping in that cabin etc. So yeah, I dont exactly get why people think it's so empty.

Edited by Dark Rosewood Varnish
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Dark Rosewood Varnish
On 3/2/2020 at 12:34 PM, Jutland said:

Shady Belle is the best camp

Yeah it's definitely underrated. I love the secluded approach and how it backs out onto the swamp. I used to take long canoe trips down the Kamassa River from Ranoake Ridge all the way back to Shady Belle.

 

Overall Clements Point is my favourite camp though, mainly because of the lake.

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TheJesus1996

Yeah I love RDR2 version of New Austin my only gripe is that it's not explorable for Arthur 

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