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Typhus

Unpopular Opinions about RDR2

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The Jungz
4 hours ago, BoulderFaceplant said:

Now here’s the big problem with John going after Micah. He looks so goddamn stupid. It would be one thing if he was just angry at Micah, if his rage blinded him and he just wanted Micah to die. But no. Somehow, after all of his Chapter 6 advice from Arthur about leaving the past behind and not chasing revenge, John actually believes that killing Micah is what Arthur would want. It makes John come off as a bona fide moron. Go play RDR and then tell me John Marston could misread someone’s intentions so completely. 

I completely agree with that. The epilogue is the biggest disservice they could have made to John's character.

 

As for RDR1, I think it's insinuated that the only way for John to achieve his full redemption for his criminal endeavors is to actually die. He may have changed, he may have reformed into a good man but the moral of that story is that your past always catches up with you and each and every one of us will have to face judgement for our sins, sooner or later. Dutch was right in that the Bureau would find another monster, and they'll find another one after John. 

 

But yes, John stays relatively the same character throughout the game.  

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BoulderFaceplant
4 minutes ago, ThroatSlasher2 said:

I completely agree with that. The epilogue is the biggest disservice they could have made to John's character.

 

As for RDR1, I think it's insinuated that the only way for John to achieve his full redemption for his criminal endeavors is to actually die. He may have changed, he may have reformed into a good man but the moral of that story is that your past always catches up with you and each and every one of us will have to face judgement for our sins, sooner or later. Dutch was right in that the Bureau would find another monster, and they'll find another one after John. 

 

But yes, John stays relatively the same character throughout the game.  

So the morality of redemption lines up with Ross’ view? That doesn’t sound right. 

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pariah87
3 hours ago, BoulderFaceplant said:

So the morality of redemption lines up with Ross’ view? That doesn’t sound right. 

It caught up with Ross too.. mate, feed, kill, repeat.

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BoulderFaceplant
Just now, pariah87 said:

It caught up with Ross too.. mate, feed, kill, repeat.

So the only way to break the cycle is to deny someone their “redemption” by sparing their life? This is a flawed notion.

 

Sure, the outlaw life caught up to John, but that doesn’t have anything to do him being redeemed in the process. 

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pariah87

He's redeemed in death when he is absolved of his sins.

 

There is no breaking the cycle. That's just the way it is.

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Caffeination

I don’t get why it’s a big deal for people if pre-prologue and post-prologue John have different models and hair. Yeah, it’s weird at first, but you have to realize it’s an inconsequential quirk that’s not worth getting upset about.

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The Shakermaker
4 hours ago, Caffeination said:

I don’t get why it’s a big deal for people if pre-prologue and post-prologue John have different models and hair. Yeah, it’s weird at first, but you have to realize it’s an inconsequential quirk that’s not worth getting upset about.

You could also say he is trying to hide his identity therefore getting a different barnet or he just fancies a different style. 

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Tonesta
15 hours ago, BoulderFaceplant said:

So the only way to break the cycle is to deny someone their “redemption” by sparing their life? This is a flawed notion.

 

Sure, the outlaw life caught up to John, but that doesn’t have anything to do him being redeemed in the process. 

 

So my argument would be a little different.

 

I'd argue that John could have broken the cycle - Arthur died giving him and his family that opportunity.

For all his bumbling, John is never hunted down during the epilogue; instead he sets himself up with a home and a new safe and legal calling, and the opportunity is there for him (and Abigail and Jack and Uncle) to live happily ever after.

After all, we're shown that several other members of the gang (Pierson, Tilly, Marybeth, Swanson) go on to live happy, safe lives.

If he'd just let Micah be, they probably would have done so as well.

 

But he didn't - instead he chose revenge. He wasn't strong enough to overcome the anger and hatred towards the man that had betrayed them all, and he had to go after him.

That doesn't make him a moron. That makes him an angry, flawed human being. The dialogue in American Venom even acknowledges that this isn't what Arthur would have wanted (assuming he was high honor) but John doesn't care because his primal desire for justice conquers all. And of course exactly the same choice is made by Jack just a few year later.

 

I don't think it ruins the story - it just means that the whole Red Dead Redemption saga is undeniably a tragedy, and the name is somewhat misleading. Ultimately, no one really gets redeemed. Not in this life, anyways.

 

 

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The Jungz
6 hours ago, Caffeination said:

I don’t get why it’s a big deal for people if pre-prologue and post-prologue John have different models and hair. Yeah, it’s weird at first, but you have to realize it’s an inconsequential quirk that’s not worth getting upset about.

Let's not.

 

I like this thread.

Edited by ThroatSlasher2
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Guest Billy Russo

The pacing at the beginning was a bit too slow even for me. I almost gave up on the game, but once it got going and I could do my own thing it was awesome. I just have this bad feeling a lot of people didn't give this game a real chance because of how it begins.

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dandroid

I know this is very nit-picky but it's hard for me to unsee, especially as everything else is so detailed and accurate.

How people grip revolvers in RDR2:

1000?cb=20181124211103

 

How people hold revolvers in real life:
800px-UnforgivenRem75-2.jpg

UnforgivenS&WSchofield-3.jpg

 

I could post thousands more examples, but these ones from Unforgiven are very clear. RDR1 was actually much closer to the mark on this.

 

 

Edited by dandroid
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pariah87
12 minutes ago, dandroid said:

I know this is very nit-picky but it's hard for me to unsee, especially as everything else is so detailed and accurate.

 

 

No not picky at all, this has always annoyed me lol

 

I wish we had these...

006925_01.jpg

Edited by pariah87
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dandroid
11 minutes ago, pariah87 said:

No not picky at all, this has always annoyed me lol

It's a weird enough mistake that I have to assume it's a deliberate tradeoff they had to make. Something do with performance capture, or being able to show players' actual custom handguns in cutscenes. In other words, they had to animate for some generic grip with a close-enough fit for every handgun in the game.

I get that, but I wish Rockstar would err more towards immersion than customisation in cases like these.

Edited by dandroid
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Ironside
On 11/15/2019 at 3:36 AM, Billy Russo said:

The pacing at the beginning was a bit too slow even for me. I almost gave up on the game, but once it got going and I could do my own thing it was awesome. I just have this bad feeling a lot of people didn't give this game a real chance because of how it begins.

My unpopular opinion is, I wish the games pacing was even slower. 

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Ironside
On 11/17/2019 at 2:40 AM, pariah87 said:

No not picky at all, this has always annoyed me lol

 

I wish we had these...

006925_01.jpg

I wish we had a wide variety of holsters to choose from. Many of the more popular ones are already in game but not on the main protagonist. I would love to be able to carry the revolvers like Hosea or Micah as they do not have two right hand holsters as Arthur has. 

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BoulderFaceplant

It always annoyed me that we don’t know what happened to Jack after he killed Ross. 

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crazedZ10

Probably been said before but I think it was a mistake to set the game as far east/south as they did. It just doesn't feel western. The heartlands look cool but man did they look better in trailer 1, that's the kind of landscapes that I wanted, golden rolling plains. 

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El Penguin Bobo

I don't think this is very unpopular but I'll still say it since people don't mention it much.

 

The wanted system is terrible in this game and needs a total rework. Last night, I was in Saint Denis, some guys was harassing me, so I antagonized them, they hit me, I hit them back, and guess what? WANTED: UNARMED ASSAULT

 

I don't know where these cops get off at for trying to shoot down someone for self defense. I can kinda excuse it in GTA since it's much easier to get away from the cops than in RDR2 and they don't remember you for your crimes.

 

I also hate how you wear a mask when you commit a crime but they still know it's you. Maybe I'm not using it right?

Edited by El Penguin Bobo
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Caffeination

As much as I love prologue John, I've taken to antagonize him at the times he was being awful to Abigail and negligent of Jack in Chapter 2, but I believe this behavior was important for his growth as a character and don't have any complaint about it being presented.

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DeftMacaroon510

I really don’t hate Dutch in the slightest and don’t see him as that bad of a guy, sure he was a dick to Arthur in the last few chapters, and there’s a debate as to wether he was even a good guy in the first place, but i like to see it that way whenever I start a new playthrough. 

 

The game starts off with everything falling apart around him, as it went on things slowly started to get better and he tried to keep on top of it, then Micah was secretly sabotaging him, the people closest to him started doubting (they were right to however) then to top it all off, he loses hosea and I believe that is the point when it really goes downhill and he doesn’t know who to trust or listen to anymore.

 

 I believe this due to him just walking off and giving up at the end of chapter 6, then shooting Micah at the very end and having done with it, before then trying to do it all again come the first game, I dunno, but after seeing all of that, I couldn’t feel much hatred towards the character.

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El-Sid
On 2/9/2019 at 4:37 AM, Cutter De Blanc said:

I hope that their online mode becomes an utter failure

It already is lmao trying to milk paying customers to dead and shaming people on their forum by calling them haters ... moderate and censorship 

is the only way the can try and manipulate public opinion .

Do not spend a dime on the online version .

btw if you look at the activity on this forum ... dead game walking 

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LeonVegaSuarez

Hunting/fishing is the most fun thing to do in this game.

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Xerukal

Not sure if unpopular or not but...

 

I genuinely feel that the pelt quality mechanics are at odds with the realism/immersion of the rest of the hunting system. 

 

You have carcasses that decay over time, and thus lose "stars". Now that's fine. It makes sense that animals would decompose in real time. But why do 1-star and 2-star pelts (not carcasses) exist if 3-star pelts are the only useful ones? Money? You get money for selling 3-stars, too. 

 

Why doesn't every animal start out at 3-star quality and degrade based on the method that was used to kill it? Is it padding? Because it always feels like it.

 

want to enjoy hunting, and when I'm doing it just to knock off some Master Hunter challenges, I usually do! But whenever it comes time to rummage around a deeply wooded area, looking around for an unbelievably rare animal (for example, a male moose), I groan because I know there's a chance that when I do eventually find one, it'll be of lesser quality; and thus completely useless. 

 

It's a very "videogamey" mechanic in a hunting system that enforces realism quite heavily. With having to physically store everything on your horse, manually skin each and every animal, land the right shots with the right weapons and ammo... why are these arcadey animal tiers in the game? None of it ever made much sense to me. 

Edited by Xerukal
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BoulderFaceplant

When I went back to go for Challenge completion, it really hit home how broken it is that we get so much money from the Epilogue. Here’s something for perspective on this. RDR2 has lots of clothes, right? Tons of options. And they’re expensive. Each color/pattern of every article of clothing costs the same amount as the initial purchase of that item. To buy every flavor of a given vest, you might spend well over $200, and that’s with the full-honor discount. Alright, enough explaining. 

 

I bought every article of clothing in the entire game and still had roughly $12,000 dollars. This was, mind you, after purchasing two Arabian horses and every weapon/weapon upgrade, among other things. 

Edited by BoulderFaceplant
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TheJesus1996
4 hours ago, Xerukal said:

Not sure if unpopular or not but...

 

I genuinely feel that the pelt quality mechanics are at odds with the realism/immersion of the rest of the hunting system. 

 

You have carcasses that decay over time, and thus lose "stars". Now that's fine. It makes sense that animals would decompose in real time. But why do 1-star and 2-star pelts (not carcasses) exist if 3-star pelts are the only useful ones? Money? You get money for selling 3-stars, too. 

 

Why doesn't every animal start out at 3-star quality and degrade based on the method that was used to kill it? Is it padding? Because it always feels like it.

 

want to enjoy hunting, and when I'm doing it just to knock off some Master Hunter challenges, I usually do! But whenever it comes time to rummage around a deeply wooded area, looking around for an unbelievably rare animal (for example, a male moose), I groan because I know there's a chance that when I do eventually find one, it'll be of lesser quality; and thus completely useless. 

 

It's a very "videogamey" mechanic in a hunting system that enforces realism quite heavily. With having to physically store everything on your horse, manually skin each and every animal, land the right shots with the right weapons and ammo... why are these arcadey animal tiers in the game? None of it ever made much sense to me. 

In my headcanon I want to think those animals are too old or sick..

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Ironside
2 hours ago, JC_HUMBLE said:

In my headcanon I want to think those animals are too old or sick..

That will be my headcanon too from now on 🙂 

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Furi0sa

Seems like a UO as I've seen a lot of complaints over the year. RDR2 has the best free roam music of all time, only rivaled by skyrim.

Edited by Furi0sa

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BoulderFaceplant
On 11/14/2019 at 12:54 PM, Tonesta said:

 

So my argument would be a little different.

 

I'd argue that John could have broken the cycle - Arthur died giving him and his family that opportunity.

For all his bumbling, John is never hunted down during the epilogue; instead he sets himself up with a home and a new safe and legal calling, and the opportunity is there for him (and Abigail and Jack and Uncle) to live happily ever after.

After all, we're shown that several other members of the gang (Pierson, Tilly, Marybeth, Swanson) go on to live happy, safe lives.

If he'd just let Micah be, they probably would have done so as well.

 

But he didn't - instead he chose revenge. He wasn't strong enough to overcome the anger and hatred towards the man that had betrayed them all, and he had to go after him.

That doesn't make him a moron. That makes him an angry, flawed human being. The dialogue in American Venom even acknowledges that this isn't what Arthur would have wanted (assuming he was high honor) but John doesn't care because his primal desire for justice conquers all. And of course exactly the same choice is made by Jack just a few year later.

 

I don't think it ruins the story - it just means that the whole Red Dead Redemption saga is undeniably a tragedy, and the name is somewhat misleading. Ultimately, no one really gets redeemed. Not in this life, anyways.

 

 

If the idea was to convey that John goes after Micah out of selfish vengeance rather than believing it’s what Arthur would want, then RDR2 failed.

 

Remember when Abigail begs John not to participate? He retorts that if he doesn’t go for Micah, then the ranch they’ve built is as fake as the dragons in Jack’s books. In other words, John feels like he still has to earn the life Arthur gave to him and his family. He isn’t seething with hatred for Micah; he’s weighed down by guilt. He believes that he owes Arthur this “favor,” even if Arthur was too humble to ask for it. This makes him look like an idiot. 

 

Granted, when riding to the mountains with Charles and Sadie, he does entertain the notion that Arthur wouldn’t want him to take revenge. But then he just moves on to the next subject. It’s almost as if a different writing team threw that in without reading the finer details of the script. 

Edited by BoulderFaceplant
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MaddenedGhost
On 11/17/2019 at 12:57 PM, Ironside said:

My unpopular opinion is, I wish the games pacing was even slower. 

Haha this is the weirdest thing I have read so far in this forum, I was like "wow"

I would absolutely hate the first chapter if it went any slower.

Unpopular opinion indeed.

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Ironside
1 hour ago, Maddened_Ghost said:

Haha this is the weirdest thing I have read so far in this forum, I was like "wow"

I would absolutely hate the first chapter if it went any slower.

Unpopular opinion indeed.

Yeah, I truly love the immersive parts of the game and I truly am infatuated with chapter 1-3. Chapter 4 is ok but onwards is horrible. So I can not deny it, I truly love the slower parts of the game. 🙂 

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