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Typhus

Unpopular Opinions about RDR2

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RedDeadJohn

I think the game should start with Blackwater heist it was a missed oportunity to not include this into game they only saying about that and we don't saw it. The game would start the same like first RDR in Blackwater and on a boat.

I thought recently about setting the game more in the past somewhere in the 1877 how the gang formed and it would show more relationship between gang members.

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GinsengElixir

The reason we didn't see the Blackwater heist was because, as Arthur Morgan, we weren't supposed to. The events of it were heavily insinuated but were supposed to be mystery. If Arthur witnesses Dutch shoot Heidi McCourt in cold blood, his journey from Dutch fanboi to Dutch player hater would have been a lot shorter.

 

I can't think of a more perfect start to the story as it was. 

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GinsengElixir
On 2/9/2019 at 2:02 AM, jje1000 said:

These are more of my general opinions, not really unpopular opinions.

  1. The game could have benefited from more procedural gameplay systems. Some things (like encounters and the camp) feel too scripted, and you notice those limitations the more you play.
  2. The game is too cinematic for its own good, as missions almost always run along rails- this clashes with the open-world concept of RDRII and misses the opportunity to allow players to approach missions from different angles.
  3. RDRII's gameplay is really only an elaboration of existing Rockstar tropes, it has not been improved upon beyond looking more "realistic".
  4. These tropes combined with an emphasis on realism results in clunky gameplay controls (i.e. holding down a button to auto-gallop, the same button doing multiple things), and an overemphasis on Deadeye and headshots.
  5. The supposed realism that RDRII offers is more or less a cover for the game's otherwise simplistic and shallow gameplay mechanics. There are some details (horses balls) that contribute nothing to the gaming/immersive experience, and those resources could have been focused elsewhere.
  6. RDRII suffers from some balancing issues, especially with the economy and law enforcement that detract tremendously from the game's immersion.
  7. The game could have benefited from another half-year of polish. It feels like there are some concepts that were never truly fleshed out (i.e. the camp system, Beecher's Hope, New Austin), while others feel shallow (mission medals, camp upgrades). The plot could have also benefited from some post-recut cleanup, as there's issues with plot holes and lagging character development.
  8. There are too many characters in general, and many of them could have been merged together and developed more.
  9. The pacing of the game is not great, as many players want to stay in Chapters 2 & 3 once they know what happens towards the game's ending.
  10. Online mode has been detrimental to SP mode, as it's a reductionist form of gameplay that strips away the finer details of RDRII, likely sapped resources that could have been dedicated to SP, and harms prospects of SP DLC that could have addressed some of SP's issues.
  11. Rockstar is a neglectful parent who has not talked about its plans for SP at all (not even plans for bug fixes or post-release content), and has given us only sparing details on Online mode's fixes while still wanting players to pay up.
  12. RDRII was likely largely finished in 2-4 years, with the rest of the time being stuck in development hell. As a result, its development was very much rushed towards the end and it can sometimes feel like it suffers from "too-many-cooks" syndrome.
  13. Online mode likely will not be a success as TakeTwo would like, as there is a decent lineup of games in 2019 that offer better gameplay. Online's world also pales to SP's world, its player models are ugly, and its story is awful.
  14. RDRII is not a 10/10 masterpiece, I would place it closer to a 8.5-9 depending on how much you like visuals and storytelling compared to the gameplay. The sad thing is that it could easily become a 10/10 post-release if Rockstar focused on SP fixes, rather than Online mode.

 

Find it hard to disagree with anything here. But how do you know it was largely finished in 2-4yrs? The actors alone spent 5yrs working on it, for example. 

 

When I reflect on the 8yr dev cycle and then play the game, I do wonder how some things in the game feel so unpolished. I'm talking about gameplay here, because the world design is unparalleled imo. The 'realism' mechanics, such as gun cleaning and even eating feel superficial to the point of redundant. Sure, you need to do these things to a degree, but not to the degree that it really matters if you neglect it for days on end. Reminds me if FO4 survival mode whereby you were told how hungry you were every 5 minutes. If you're going to do it, take it as far as you can go, but not to the detriment of player patience.

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GinsengElixir
On 3/17/2019 at 12:30 PM, RyuNova said:

 

What part of Sadie saw her husband, the love of her life, murdered in front of her, was possibly raped and abused inside her own home, watched it burn down, is mentally unhinged, still loves Jake more than anything else and is suicidal dont you understand? Lets also not mention the fact that Arthur still loves Mary, the woman who broke heart and the last time before that his Son and the boys mother were murdered by a robber for ten dollars.

Also the fact that we already get "Arthur is torn about leaving the gang" with Mary.

Ha...good lord, well put. Sadie was most definitely raped by the O'Driscolls, same as Bonnie was probably raped by Bill Williamson gang in RDR. Sick but the most obvious and likely outcome. They wouldn't have kept her alive for any other reason. 

 

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RyuNova
Just now, GinsengElixir said:

Ha...good lord, well put. Sadie was most definitely raped by the O'Driscolls, same as Bonnie was probably raped by Bill Williamson gang in RDR. Sick but the most obvious and likely outcome. They wouldn't have kept her alive for any other reason. 

 

 

I think the implied by her blouse being torn, face bruised and undergarments showing was as far as they were willing to go with the depiction of rape with Bonnie. It was heavily implied and even John alluded to it but Bonnie brushed him off.

 

Sadie would have been no different, a lone woman trapped for days with a group of angry and drunk men, its pretty easy to know what R* was implying.

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GinsengElixir
Posted (edited)

Deeke even explicitly said that's what went down aswell. Course he could be bluffing but it's just obvious. Makes me hate the O'Driscolls even more(in RDR2 obviously, not rdr). However, it's also heavily implied that the Van der Linde girls were passed around(Abigail definitely, so no reason why Karen would be any different) although I can't imagine anyone but Micah and perhaps the Callender boys doing that. Although...Javier, Bill and even Charles were obviously whoring in Valentine. Not that Karen is a prostitute...but she also kinda was. 

 

Point being, R* imply the dark nature of these characters, beyond the obvious killing and robbing, without needing to spell it out.

Edited by GinsengElixir
Clarification

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jje1000
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

Find it hard to disagree with anything here. But how do you know it was largely finished in 2-4yrs? The actors alone spent 5yrs working on it, for example. 

 

When I reflect on the 8yr dev cycle and then play the game, I do wonder how some things in the game feel so unpolished. I'm talking about gameplay here, because the world design is unparalleled imo. The 'realism' mechanics, such as gun cleaning and even eating feel superficial to the point of redundant. Sure, you need to do these things to a degree, but not to the degree that it really matters if you neglect it for days on end. Reminds me if FO4 survival mode whereby you were told how hungry you were every 5 minutes. If you're going to do it, take it as far as you can go, but not to the detriment of player patience.

8 years was the total dev time, but pulling from other instances of games with such a long dev period as well as various rumors over the years detailing RDR2's development hell, it wouldn't be unlikely that the game has had its starts and stops, and periods of stall during those 8 years. I see it as a exponential curve, with a small amount of ongoing preliminary work in the early years, ramping up to full studio dedication towards the end.

 

On top of that, different components likely would have been worked on for various sums of time- I'm roughly guessing 5 years to fully mo-cap and record the lines, as the story was gradually written and blocked out in segments, probably the same amount of time to create the world and upgrade the engine, and perhaps around 3-4 years to build up the rest of the game, with some mechanical components left unfinished/ unresolved until the end (resulting in that infamous pre-release crunch time) and some outstanding plot issues due to the last minute recut that happened.

 

Online itself was likely only developed in a year (like Anthem), given how rough it was (and still is) when released for public consumption. All in all, I wonder how well-managed and sustainable this is for Rockstar, as RDO seems to be in trouble like GTAO was, and Rockstar's own output has dropped dramatically since GTAV. I do wish that they'd return to a looser studio system that allows for a greater output of smaller unique titles, rather than them dumping their collective manpower into increasingly risky and lengthy blockbusters.

 

Edited by jje1000

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crazedZ10

This entire game is the epitome of Great idea, Bad execution 

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GinsengElixir
7 hours ago, crazedZ10 said:

This entire game is the epitome of Great idea, Bad execution 

Maybe go into some detail as to why you think that? 

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crazedZ10
4 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

Maybe go into some detail as to why you think that? 

Aight, let's start with Sadie since we met her first. I like the idea of a widow becoming unhinged because of her obsession with revenge. But sh*t was that handled so poorly. She goes from 0 to Gunslinger with nothing in between. And the whole point of the game was that revenge is useless but she walks away scott free

 

The warring plantation families, again I love the idea, but that was handled very badly 

 

Arthur's entire character arc. They should of cut the entire honour system until the end tbh. It's not like it effects the gameplay. He keeps saying he's a bad man but if you play with high honour in the early chapters that line holds no weight. He also then starts acting completely out of character (if your high honour) during some of the early missions (the debts, how he talks to Keiran, etc.)

 

Gaurma

 

I could go on all day

 

 

 

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GinsengElixir
24 minutes ago, crazedZ10 said:

Aight, let's start with Sadie since we met her first. I like the idea of a widow becoming unhinged because of her obsession with revenge. But sh*t was that handled so poorly. She goes from 0 to Gunslinger with nothing in between. And the whole point of the game was that revenge is useless but she walks away scott free

 

The warring plantation families, again I love the idea, but that was handled very badly 

 

Arthur's entire character arc. They should of cut the entire honour system until the end tbh. It's not like it effects the gameplay. He keeps saying he's a bad man but if you play with high honour in the early chapters that line holds no weight. He also then starts acting completely out of character (if your high honour) during some of the early missions (the debts, how he talks to Keiran, etc.)

 

Gaurma

 

I could go on all day

 

 

 

Sadie I agree was sh*t. I liked her wanting revenge, no issue with her gunslinging, but I don't recall her ever being in any danger or progressing to competency(correct me if I'm wrong). I would have preferred if she went to Hanging dog ranch and almost got herself killed before we stepped in(or did get killed). Strong, independent woman be damned. She has a similar level of competency to other gang members. She should have had to earn that.

 

Guarma was awful for me, I don't care enough about the meta narrative and themes surrounding the dev choice here. The trade off wasn't enough. If the gang went to New Austin instead that would've been amazing.

 

Honor system could have been scrapped. Then again, I always played a balance. I rarely saw a reason to not help someone in need. This was countered by acts of downright slaughter. I managed to create a coherent narrative by myself and it worked quite well. I never killed randomly though, only when I had a gun pulled on me.

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volta2001

I’m on a max honor playthrough. finding it a great, new experience 

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