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BoulderFaceplant

Can anyone make sense of the revenge & redemption themes? (spoilers)

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BoulderFaceplant

Arthur’s crowning moment of redemption happens when he secures the safety of Sadie, Abigail, Jack, and Tilly. At this point, he chooses to expose Micah for the rat he is, perhaps saving Dutch, Bill, and Javier if they listen to reason. Well, they don’t, but he does manage to save John. Years later, John fails to leave the past behind, opting for revenge when he goes after Micah. In the end, he pays for this with his life. Makes sense so far. 

 

BUT THEN Sadie and Charles move away and presumably live out the rest of their days in peace. They make the same choice as John, and walk away! You could say their fate was to be on the run forever, but no! Charles apparently gets to just settle down somewhere in Canada. The narrative wants us to think John’s sins caught up to him, but apparently he could’ve had his cake and eaten it too if he just booked it out of the country like Charles and Sadie. We see something like this again, when Jack takes revenge by killing Ross, but then never even has to move out of Beecher’s Hope. What?? Can anyone explain the narrative reasoning of this, or did the writing just kinda fall apart in this area?

 

 

Edited by BoulderFaceplant

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Gray-Hand

It’s not inconsistent.

 

Revenge is a regressive urge because it is focussed on the past.  You can’t move on with your life if you are consumed by what has passed.

 

Sadie and Charles had not yet really moved on with their lives, so seeking revenge wasn’t really a step backward for them.  After they took their revenge, they moved on, started new lives and lived happily.

 

John had already moved on with his life.  He should have just kept on the path he was already walking.  But he went after the past, and his past caught up with him.

 

 

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O.Z
1 hour ago, Gray-Hand said:

John had already moved on with his life.  He should have just kept on the path he was already walking.  But he went after the past, and his past caught up with him.

 

 

 

The reason why he went after the past was, because it already had caught up with him in his head! To keep any hope of staying sane, he had to seek revenge, simple as that.

 

If he kept on the path he was already walking, like you said, he would have ended up tying a rope around his neck... 

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Gray-Hand
33 minutes ago, O.Z said:

 

The reason why he went after the past was, because it already had caught up with him in his head! To keep any hope of staying sane, he had to seek revenge, simple as that.

 

If he kept on the path he was already walking, like you said, he would have ended up tying a rope around his neck... 

Nothing in the game suggests he had anything near that level of obsession with Micah.  If he cared that much, he would have actively tracked Micah down himself.

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O.Z
10 minutes ago, Gray-Hand said:

Nothing in the game suggests he had anything near that level of obsession with Micah.  If he cared that much, he would have actively tracked Micah down himself.

He probably would have later on his life. Not everything has to be black and white to make sense, you have to read between the lines. The gang f*cked John Marston over by leaving him dead(as Dutch and most likely Micah wanted). However John went after the little rat and the rest of the rotten gang in the next(or first) game.

 

Nobody f**ks with John Marston, he might not be the brightest, but he definitely is the best gunslinger of all time imo. 

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HeyThereFriend

Thing is it doesn't matter if he got involved with killing Micah or not, the events of RDR1 would remain the same.

 

Dutch was still going to kill Micah, or maybe Sadie or Charles would have. Most likely Dutch tho. They would of found Micah and found John the same as they did. They had no way of knowing John is the one pulled the trigger.

 

Even if no one killed Micah, John signed his name in the bank for his house, in Blackwater, Pinkertons HQ.

 

If they somehow overlooked that, Ross would've simply used Micah the same way he used John. To track down every gang member left alive and within their reach.

 

John died because he stayed in the area.

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Gray-Hand

The Pinkerton were probably following the money rather than the gang members.  So if Dutch had killed Micah and just walked away, Ross probably would have been happy with the money and given up the chase.

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O.Z
2 hours ago, HeyThereFriend said:

Dutch was still going to kill Micah, or maybe Sadie or Charles would have. Most likely Dutch tho.

I highly doubt it. The only reason why  Dutch shot Micah was because he saw John there and it brought up all the past memories of his gang(Arthur etc). And Dutch really felt the pain that he had caused by siding with Micah and the rest of the sh*t he stirred up, so the only way to redeem himself was to shoot Micah and just basically walk away...

 

Hadn't John shown up there, Dutch would have never killed Micah. That’s what I believe.

 

Sadie and Charles just ain’t tough enough to handle Micah anyways.

 

As you can see, it was always up to the legend John Marston to take matters into his own hands.

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Jimbatron

I think John has mentally moved on after “American Venom”. It’s just a simple error in judgement trying to start a new life so close by to where it all kicked off - he clearly doesn’t suspect Ross is still intent on tracking the remaining gang members down.

 

So I don’t think it’s inconsistent it’s just a mistake by John the fictional character. They are not as omnipotent as the player and it’s easy to forget that.

 

As for Jack, it’s entirely plausible he leaves no trail with his last act of revenge. Ross’ body is lying alone in a river down in Mexico, if it’s ever found at all.

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