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IamCourtney

Judge me, my Peers

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IamCourtney

The Background: I was running a Recovery mission for Hector out of Blackwater. After recovering the cart I took it to the lake and fished for a while to run down the clock a bit before heading into town for the dropoff. With about two minutes left on the timer and entering Blackwater's outskirts, I notice a dot approaching up the road from behind and the following takes place on mic. (Paraphrased)

 

Them: Hey guy with the mission I'm just heading to the butcher, I'm gonna ride past you nicely okay?

 

Me: Uuuh I'd rather you stayed back or took the other road

 

Them: I'm in a hurry dude just chill I won't do anything

 

By now they're approaching engagement range and I'm turned to face them, bolt action cocked, as the cart autodrives toward destination.

 

Me: Stay back or go another way

 

Them: Dude I swear 

 

By now they're in lock-on range. I can see that their horse is indeed loaded with pelts and carcasses, but they also have their gun out. I take the headshot, they go down and shortly thereafter the cart is successfully delivered.

 

Them: What the f*ck asshole now all my stuff is gone!!!!

 

Me: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

From there it just became a bit of a gunfight until I went to bed about 20 minutes later.

 

So what say you, jurists? Was I right or wrong? How right, or how wrong? What about the other guy? Feel free to submit your own cases for judgement as well!

 

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GenericGTAO

I let other shoot first in this game.  I dont mind shooting first but if you shoot first as a rule, youre going to spend all your time fighting.  In this case a warning was given to avoid your area.

 

 Judgment, They should have taken a way around you, and probably would have killed you once you let the guard down.  

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Lonely-Martin

Not bothered about right or wrong, it's freemode, there is no right or wrong in that scenario, deliberately. But it is a good way to highlight just how sh*t the game is for me as it stands.

 

Who knows what would have happened. Players need to have their shooter out to protect their loot, you gotta deliver that wagon. All it does is add to the distrust and chaos. It's that stuff that saw me quit, I don't wanna have to be on guard all the time. I just want to chill with buddies rather than be 'ready to go' 24/7.

 

Sends me to sleep that. Zzzz. 🤣🤠

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TheShift

Personally ...I would have taken his word for it.

He had way more time invested in hunting. ..and a lot more to loose.

 

Had you not spoken at all.. might feel a bit differently ...

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IamCourtney
1 hour ago, GenericGTAO said:

I let other shoot first in this game.  I dont mind shooting first but if you shoot first as a rule, youre going to spend all your time fighting.  

When it comes to how triggerhappy I am in a given moment, I ask myself "How much will it matter if I die?" and "What am I planning to do next?" If I'm just riding from A to B on an empty horse planning to hunt or do missions, I'm much more likely not to be aggressive. What good would it do me to create a grudge? But when I have something at stake, such us during a mission, I will most certainly fire first if I think it improves my odds of success.

 

1 hour ago, TheShift said:

Personally ...I would have taken his word for it.

He had way more time invested in hunting. ..and a lot more to loose.

 

Had you not spoken at all.. might feel a bit differently ...

He may or may not have had more to lose than I did, but to me that's irrelevant. Why should I assume the risk of letting him get close to my cart? I've had plenty of randos give a friendly wave or thumbs up only to shoot at me later. He had other options and chose to force my hand.

 

Still, I am a bit sorry he lost his stuff. FWIW I usually try and shoot the horse in situations like this and I didn't do that here in the hope that his hunting haul would survive.

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1898

I'm trying to picture which lake you were where this guy couldn't spend 15 sec to go around you. He was either going to attack you or he isn't very bright. If the latter, at least you taught him a lesson.

 

Edited by 1898

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ALifeOfMisery

I don't think you did anything wrong @IamCourtney. The guy was probably going to be peaceful, but you're near the time limit of a mission, other player has their gun drawn so they rolled the dice by getting close to you.

 

In their shoes, with a loaded horse, I'd have hung back or gone the other way around.

 

I've done similar, I posted in another thread that I was going to the butcher in Strawberry, another player came charging up, they didn't shoot at me, but I didn't have time to get off my horse and engage the butcher before the other player would have chance to shoot, so I killed them. They messaged me afterwards saying they weren't going to shoot and that I'd cost them a load of 3* pelts. I felt sh*t about it, but I wasn't going to risk my own load of 3* pelts and carcasses.

 

I'd more than likely have done the same as you. I'm a peaceful player in the most part, but I won't risk my grind either.

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Semaj 2JZ♢

Last I checked, *you* don't lose the stranger mission simply because you get killed. Right? He, however, does lose his sh*t because of R*s sh*tty design. Knowing full well he was loaded with wild game, the odds that he'd take your wagon or do something to cause your mission failure, was pretty slim...🤔

 

Unfortunately, seeing as you were both doing solo sh*t before your encounter, the both of you were in the "wrong". Him for not choosing a different/better route to the butcher. You, for having trust issues, blowing off his plea and then subsequently blowing his head off with your trigger happy fingers. 🤷‍♂️

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Mac-

Who's to know what the intentions where of the other player, only he/she could know, but that's the distrust the multiplayer part of this game creates sadly.

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4eyedcoupe

@IamCourtneyI think I would have done the same thing honestly.  I would have tried to take him for his word, even given the warnings.  If he meant no harm, he should have put his gun away to help ease your mind, but he didn't. He approached with the gun out. I'm thinking with the pelts though, he probably was being sincere about wanting to pass peacefully, but you did tell him to find another route.  The courteous and smart thing for them to do in that case(if he was truly sincere) would have been to stop and wait a second for you to get farther ahead, or take the alternate route as asked.  He should have realized you both have something to lose and whether or not his risk of loss was worth the hurry. 

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Fatsanchez

As a peaceful player all I can say is, I can understand both sides and I guess the other dude took a gamble which I wouldn’t, and OP did what I probably would. Anyway this is why I usually ride without weapons drawn. Slow and steady ftw lol.

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ThaBirdCoot

If he was so worried to lose all his stuff he could have gone around if you asked him politely. It's not like the map isn't large enough to avoid a player in particular. But obviously he thought he is in his right to use that route, well tough sh*t. Face the consequences. Maybe he learned that he better check his butchers before going. Why would you take the risk to approach anybody running a stranger mission with a full horse loaded with pelts and carcasses when there is no passive option to be safe ? 

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Stretch188

If he didnt have his gun out, you could maybe argue that it was trigger happy, but to me this is very clearly his fault.

 

I wouldn't even take the same route as a normal pink dot on my way to the butcher, let alone someone on a mission who i know is bound to assume my intent is to attack.

 

He had no timer, came with his gun drawn, and could have very easily taken an alternative route.

 

Now if there had been some way for you to see that he was a high honor player (the dot color corresponding to honor had been mentioned in one of the updates I believe), you might have been more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, and the whole situation could have been avoided.

 

Also I will leave my own actions up for judgement: If I feel that someone has attacked me without cause, I do not engage in long battles - I simply go into slippery bastard, pull out my double barrel, execute your horse and go on my way. If you have a secondary horse and give chase, I will execute it as well. My logic is that I do not gain anything from killing you, but you have gained the pleasure of inconveniencing me. So I will inconvenience you, by forcing you to use money to replace your horse, or at the very least, be stuck on a scrawny nag for 2:00.

 

For example:

 

I did a player assassination mission - took out his horse to keep him from running then killed him. Now on mic I said that I was sorry for downing his horse, and that it would be bad for his health to take losing the mission personally - I would revive his horse for him and be on my way. I kept my word, and began riding for rhodes.

 

He closed distance, pulled out a rifle, and started shooting - so I killed him again, told him he shouldn't be such a poor sport, and threw a molotov on his horse before riding away.

 

Was I too harsh in my actions?

Edited by Stretch188

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DentureDynamite

Hmm; I would have to say that I'd probably have given them the benefit of the doubt, but(!) I also can't blame you for being nervous about their getting so close. Sometimes you have no idea who won't just take a shot for the heck of it--though their gun out could have been just a defensive measure.

 

Had someone given me a warning, I'd have given them enough extra space to be well out of shooting range--he could (and should) have done that with you for his own self-preservation.

Edited by DentureDynamite

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4eyedcoupe

@Stretch188You don't ever have to pay for their horse?  My friend has killed mine a few times when we were messing around and he always has to pay for it, not me.  Is it an insurance thing?  I have insurance on at least one of my two horses if not both(the two that I paid for)

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Dr.Rosenthal

He could have taken a different path, or waited back. In a hurry for what? Not like the butcher closes at a certain time of night. If the stuff on his horse was really that important to him, he’d have tried harder not to cross another player.

 

I don’t think you did anything wrong, you even warned him first.

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ghostsoap01

I've done the same to someone who appeared to be following me, so I can understand.

 

On the other hand, I once mistakenly ended up between a player doing their mission and their destination, and I was grateful that they rode past instead of making the assumption that I was gonna grief and kill me pre-emptively.

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alex1055

If I was carrying a haul like that I certainly wouldn't announce it to the whole lobby, lest I wanted to attract the attention of griefers.

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TheShift

Like I said.. me personally 

 

You do you..lol

 

 

Anyways...why is there no emote to tip your hat while on horseback

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Larcen

I guess that he wasn't in that big of a hurry if he had time to fight you for 20 minutes (instead of getting back on the grind). 

 

But yeah.  You warned him twice, and he still rolled up on you with his gun out.

 

I feel like what he lost in pelts he gained in learning an important RDRO life lesson.

Edited by Larcen

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Assblaster

Yeah I've been burned by fakers so much that it's made me just a little bit bitter and unforgiving lol. Doesn't pay being nice. I try to avoid folks if I can, but if they come near me now I tend to shoot and carry on without regrets -- especially if their gun is out. Community is toxic more often than not, I don't blame you at all.

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YNNEL

Would have gave him the benefit of the doubt in that instance but can see why you did it. Any blip coming towards me I’m instantly cautious 

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Happy Hunter

He did have fair warning.

 

If I have cargo and don't want to be killed, I won't be asking if I can go past people - I just avoid people full stop. Take alternative routes if I have to. Waiting a second for you to pass out of the way couldn't have hurt that much - if it did, if something was that urgent, then he had bigger stuff to worry about than some virtual animals he'd hunted.

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ThaBirdCoot

Again, if you approach somebody doing a stranger mission you are asking for it. There is a friggin award for interrupting these, so who is to say this not so smart fella wasn't just out to get ya for a little extra xp? No wrongs done, nothing to lose sleep over. I woulda killed the dude on sight in 98.9% of the time. Especially with those cart missions, it takes one fire arrow or dynamite and the thing is gone. Dude get's 9$ and you.. jack all.

 

Can you even fish tho in stranger missions ? I never were able to, neither crafting tonics ect. ...

Edited by ThaBirdCoot

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El Payaso

If you can't see why you are wrong then no explanation will change your mind.

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Larcen
9 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

If you can't see why you are wrong then no explanation will change your mind.

f*ck that.  The other guy was warned and he still decided the ride past (with his gun out).  The stupid bastard deserved what he got.

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hotrats773

All I can share is how I would react. I would have let him pass. I may have taken a bullet to the face but then again, maybe not. If he passes and no conflict occurs, some good will is generated. If he blasts you then it's game on. Everything is a judgement call; fight, flight, negotiate. 

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IamCourtney
1 hour ago, El Payaso said:

If you can't see why you are wrong then no explanation will change your mind.

Care to expand? I'm genuinely curious to hear other people's lines of reasoning for why they would act a certain way in this situation. :)

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TheSadisticOwl

Get the Never Without One ability card and you can ride past most players with less of a worry. Extra points if you have the Slow And Steady deadeye card to activate in case they do knock your hat off trying to get a cheap headshot. Yes, I know that everyone hates this ability card combo, but it really helps against cheap players in free roam.

 

As far as whether you're right or wrong on the situation, I feel like both of you gave fair warnings to each other, but none of you took them into consideration. You shot first in a trigger happy manner and he sure as hell was stubborn enough to not listen.

 

RDR2's map is colossal and he could've taken a detour around the wagon for sure, while you could've given him a chance and taken his word for it, but considering he didn't want to cooperate the first time, I'd be rather suspicious too. At the end of it, I don't think his gun was drawn to attack you, but to defend himself because he felt like things were going to escalate (which sure as hell did).

 

I think both sides were wrong here, but he in particular was more wrong for not having patience. You didn't even threaten him when you suggested staying back or taking the other road. 

 

He sure wasn't in a hurry, though, considering he decided to get his dorito in a twist and fight you for 20 minutes (which only wastes more money with spent bullets, provisions and tonics) instead of going back to hunting.

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Ektope
14 hours ago, IamCourtney said:

So what say you, jurists? Was I right or wrong? How right, or how wrong? What about the other guy? Feel free to submit your own cases for judgement as well!

 

Neither. The other guy was an asshole.

 

Just do what you gotta do. Shoot first, ask questions later.

 

If I was under pressure, I would've killed anybody on sight. Or even have dead eye activated while I'm passing right through them.

 

I don't use a mic and there wouldn't be any negotiations.

 

I know I have high honourable but I will start shooting people if I don't want to change sessions.

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