R* Decisions You Couldn't Understand

[.Ryan.]

On 9/23/2021 at 3:43 AM, KingAJ032304 said:

i truly think SA Catalina was a better character. All gta 3 catalina had going for her is the fact that she was female. A badass female admittedly, but if she was male then she would have been 100% forgettable. 

 

I can't say I agree. I prefer the GTA III rendition of Catalina simply because she's not annoying and she's at the peak of her power. I think that makes her way more intimidating whereas in San Andreas she's inexperienced. The "love" triangle with her, Claude and CJ also makes me cringe. In GTA III she's all about business. 

 

Speaking of which related to this, but I actually don't understand why R* explored Claude's past in San Andreas. The entire point of his character is he was supposed to be a projection of the player. At one time there was even going to be an option to let the players choose their own name, but instead it was scrapped so what we got was someone completely mysterious without intending to be a specific persona. A bit like the Doom guy. San Andreas ruined that for me. 

 

This is also a nitpick if anything, but I think the name "Claude" is kind of a sh*t and unoriginal name in all honesty. I loved that he was only referred to as Fido throughout the story and the GTA III guy way back when. Those names are rarely used nowadays and the OG fans are probably the only ones who remember. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by MiamiViceCity1986

[Guest]

5 hours ago, MiamiViceCity1986 said:

This is also a nitpick if anything, but I think the name "Claude" is kind of a sh*t and unoriginal name in all honesty. I loved that he was only referred to as Fido throughout the story and the GTA III guy way back when. Those names are rarely used nowadays and the OG fans are probably the only ones who remember.

Yeah I remember when I first played GTA3, I started calling him Fido immediately after hearing Maria call him that (and Handyman after Asuka called him that). Fun times.

 

5 hours ago, MiamiViceCity1986 said:

Speaking of which related to this, but I actually don't understand why R* explored Claude's past in San Andreas. The entire point of his character is he was supposed to be a projection of the player. At one time there was even going to be an option to let the players choose their own name, but instead it was scrapped so what we got was someone completely mysterious without intending to be a specific persona. A bit like the Doom guy. San Andreas ruined that for me.

Agreed. R* really messed that aspect up for the sake of some lameass crossover to be fair, good thing they didn't do a "CJ meets Tommy" crossover thanks to the dispute with Ray Liotta or otherwise his character would've been ruined too (maybe unless the writers managed to fit him into the Las Venturas casino stuff arc nicely).

 

Personally, I like to think that Claude is James Earl Cash from Manhunt (or long story short, Claude has the same voice as him) considering how Cash rarely ever speaks in the game and hypothetically using the SA Claude skin mod in MH would just fit in with the game so nicely: https://www.moddb.com/games/manhunt/addons/claude-speed

[Carbonox]

I'm starting to notice there's a pattern with Rockstar really overdoing just about every returning character in the series, be it in prequels or sequels. Donald Love turned into an absolute mess, Lance Vance was 10 times stupider and wackier, like a kid with a sugar high in an adult's body, and let's not even get started on the IV characters in V, who are doubly terrible because they're so inconsequential for the plot, they could've just been left out and not get fundamentally ruined while nothing about the meaningful big picture would've changed.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Carbonox

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Carbonox said:

I'm starting to notice there's a pattern with Rockstar really overdoing just about every returning character in the series, be it in prequels or sequels. Donald Love turned into an absolute mess, Lance Vance was 10 times stupider and wackier, like a kid with a sugar high in an adult's body, and let's not even get started on the IV characters in V, who are doubly terrible because they're so inconsequential for the plot, they could've just been left out and not get fundamentally ruined while nothing would've changed.

Let's face it, all GTA games except IV/EFLC have the worst storylines.

 

Totally agreed, what's up with that, honestly? Toni Cipriani looks like a completely different person in LCS, it feels like Ma Cipriani had two sons with the same name and GTA3 features that second, fatter son (maybe the GTA3 Toni Cipriani is the son of Ma Cipriani's sister, hence the name Toni KIP-riani). Maria acts sane and serious in SA yet she acts like a crazed drug-addicted gold-digger in LCS, and let's not forget how she suddenly turns into an average ditzy girl in GTA3... Well, at least Salvatore Leone remains mostly consistent among all of his appearances throughout the series, that's what makes him likable.

 

I don't think the writers at R* pay too much attention to the lore...

[KingAJ032304]

9 minutes ago, H-G said:

Let's face it, all GTA games except IV/EFLC have the worst storylines.

 

Totally agreed, what's up with that, honestly? Toni Cipriani looks like a completely different person in LCS, it feels like Ma Cipriani had two sons with the same name and GTA3 features that second, fatter son (maybe the GTA3 Toni Cipriani is the son of Ma Cipriani's sister, hence the name Toni KIP-riani). Maria acts sane and serious in SA yet she acts like a crazed drug-addicted gold-digger in LCS, and let's not forget how she suddenly turns into an average ditzy girl in GTA3... Well, at least Salvatore Leone remains mostly consistent among all of his appearances throughout the series, that's what makes him likable.

 

I don't think the writers at R* pay too much attention to the lore...

Was Toni C really that off? My only issue is Toni was only in LC for 3 years by GTA III.

[Americana]

12 hours ago, MiamiViceCity1986 said:

Speaking of which related to this, but I actually don't understand why R* explored Claude's past in San Andreas.

 

They put as much as they could into Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas because they knew that it was going to be the last one of the mediocre ones before they released the masterpiece.

[KingAJ032304]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:32 AM, Americana said:

 

They put as much as they could into Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas because they knew that it was going to be the last one of the mediocre ones before they released the masterpiece.

That's a very weird way to look at the 3D universe in my opinion at least. I like to think of the 3D universe as truly cared for guilty pleasures from a dev point for the fans to enjoy (like all the cameos, dialogue, missions, names, etc) while I look at the HD universe as seeing the beauty of maturity while still remembering how to goof off. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by KingAJ032304

[E Revere]

I could be wrong but I think Maria was supposed to be Sal's mistress in GTA III, not his wife. She certainly didn't look as old.

[_Ryan_]

-Brucie teasing car customisation in GTA IV.  I get if R* weren’t going to include it, but this just comes across as a little low IMO.

 

-Tommy killing Diaz so early in the story and the rest of the story feeling like it’s padded out with asset missions or working for the Cubans and Haitians. It feels like the story’s split into two. The climax of killing Diaz and taking over is resolved far too quick.

 

-GTA V not including things like pool, useable food vendors etc even though these assets already exist in game.

Edited September 30, 2021 by _Ryan_

[KingAJ032304]

On 9/30/2021 at 8:52 AM, _Ryan_ said:

-Tommy killing Diaz so early in the story and the rest of the story feeling like it’s padded out with asset missions or working for the Cubans and Haitians. It feels like the story’s split into two. The climax of killing Diaz and taking over is resolved far too quick.

I always said that it really doesn't take much to make a story/campaign better than VC

 

I don't get how Rockstar just let them damn reload animations slide with GTA IV. Like come on that sh*t was becoming standard by the 6th gen!

Edited October 5, 2021 by KingAJ032304

[CynicalMexican]

On 9/29/2021 at 9:38 PM, E Revere said:

I could be wrong but I think Maria was supposed to be Sal's mistress in GTA III, not his wife. She certainly didn't look as old.

 

Botox probably.

 

Plus I think she was in her early 30s? Not really that old.

[CynicalMexican]

On 9/25/2021 at 5:47 AM, Carbonox said:

I'm starting to notice there's a pattern with Rockstar really overdoing just about every returning character in the series, be it in prequels or sequels. Donald Love turned into an absolute mess, Lance Vance was 10 times stupider and wackier, like a kid with a sugar high in an adult's body, and let's not even get started on the IV characters in V, who are doubly terrible because they're so inconsequential for the plot, they could've just been left out and not get fundamentally ruined while nothing about the meaningful big picture would've changed.

 

What's weird is that there's some evidence that the 3D timeline was relatively thought out prior to GTA 3's release.

 

Perhaps being able to add more dialogue, missions, etc made it this way. GTA 3 characters were never fleshed out so much.

 

It's something I hope Trilogy DE fixes - consistency in characters. 

[E Revere]

1 hour ago, CynicalMexican said:

 

What's weird is that there's some evidence that the 3D timeline was relatively thought out prior to GTA 3's release.

Indeed. I think they wrote down in some book somewhere (maybe by Navid Khonsari? I don't remember the exact source) that they actually plan out and begin developing the next game while the current one hasn't actually been released yet, so everything is thought-out beforehand. They don't really make the story up as they go along unlike how it may seem.

[Americana]

Guys, you know that people can marry somebody who is 40 years older than them?

[GhettoJesus]

I don't get why R* didn't reuse the cops on motorbikes. I think the only game that had them besides San Andreas and VCS is V and even then they were just rare encounters. Not that it bothers me much. Just an observance.

Edited October 6, 2021 by GhettoJesus

[Guest]

On 10/6/2021 at 10:39 PM, GhettoJesus said:

I don't get why R* didn't reuse the cops on motorbikes. I think the only game that had them besides San Andreas and VCS is V and even then they were just rare encounters. Not that it bothers me much. Just an observance.

I suppose VCS features cop bikers because it's VC-based engine seems to be more leaned towards the SA one and V simply has them as a throwback to SA of sorts.

[String]

Lazlow's personality change from 3D universe to HD universe. Don't know why they turned him from sane dude surrounded by crazies in III to whatever he became in IV and V. I guess even in San Andreas and Vice City Stories his character was turning somewhat into the grating type but it still is kinda inexplicable to me why they went that route

[Americana]

In my opinion he wasn't needed in HD Grand Theft Auto games, at all.

[.Ryan.]

50 minutes ago, Wayne Kerr said:

Lazlow's personality change from 3D universe to HD universe. Don't know why they turned him from sane dude surrounded by crazies in III to whatever he became in IV and V. I guess even in San Andreas and Vice City Stories his character was turning somewhat into the grating type but it still is kinda inexplicable to me why they went that route

At the very least in GTA IV he’s still only a radio personality, but I’m not sure why he’s a character in GTA V who actually has a role in the story.

 

I rolled my eyes every time he was on screen. A pervert fetish for young girls is not what I want from a GTA game. 

 

 

[Andreas915]

I guess it was a commentary on the world of reality shows and the people behind them with the usual Rockstar style of turning it up to 11. It was a bit cringe but I think it was the point. But personally I liked the radio DJ character of Lazlow's more.

[nick323f]

On 1/31/2019 at 3:22 PM, Jack Lupino said:

Creating the stupid Universe barrier between 3D and HD era. We will never see Claude,CJ or Tommy in future gta 

This is perhaps the worst missed opportunity when creating GTA IV... if it was still the same universe they could characters of the 3D era at least give some cameos 

[Americana]

What, you wanted dudes from all over the United States of America to come to Liberty City?

Edited October 10, 2021 by Americana

[JumpingKentFlash]

Sometimes I do think their prequel strategy works against them. Like they started with GTA 3, which really was the culmination of a very broad story that began in 1984. The end of 3’s story is just so underwhelming compared to the other games, so when you look at the whole thing, it’s some great things going on. Lots of hilarious characters, wild missions and stuff, but all that really happens in the end is Claude shooting a helicopter down and walking away with that girl.

The games should enhance each other, much like RDR1 and 2 do.

7 hours ago, nick323f said:

This is perhaps the worst missed opportunity when creating GTA IV... if it was still the same universe they could characters of the 3D era at least give some cameos 

They could easily have done that, but they were so hot for the new generation at the time. They probably thought they needed to draw a line.

[E Revere]

On 9/22/2021 at 8:50 PM, KingAJ032304 said:

You know I never understood why game devs are so unoriginal in ways to splice up hood stories. It's almost always just normal hardcore drug dealing/gangbanging with a close friend dead by the end and either the protagonist still continuing the game or quitting. Like there are SOOOO many ways to spice up the hood or tell something interesting and they choose the same thing almost every time. The last section of SA or all of TLAD are great examples on how to do it right even if they weren't the most coherent.

 

Edit: In fact here are some things that the ending could be about. Rescuing your homie from jail, finding out who ead all the hoes on the block, trying to get up in the music industry with your record company covering up for your crimes, trying to combine enemy factions together but some rat(s) keep f*cking it up so you find they place, someone trying to make their escape to a coast s yu hunt them down on a boat/yacht, have a story about people fighting over a $100M+ powerball parady lottery ticket, maybe your homies was eyeing a super car/multimillion dollar crib and its own by a set trying to go legit into sports, maybe your tying to be an evil f*ck and get the whole place on meth and you got the "good guys" in the hood trying to stop you, maybe you wanna make the biggest hiest on everything attractive in the hood and claim monopoly, maybe you know your going to jail/getting a death sentence and your family trying to get out and go to college so you organize your loyal always down for their set homies to go gunblazing and cover up for them, maybe like EAZY E you get HIV and spend your last time pulling an Arthur Morgan and don't give a f*ck no more, etc. Seriously there's A LOT!

Great take. To add to what you said, another thing that would help the hood stories (or any kind of crime-fiction storyline) is personalising the feuds. In GTA SA, you're always taking generic GSF peds with you to go blasting on generic Balla peds. There should've been more of mentioning folks like LB, Little Weasel, Kane etc. because then the bangs feel more special and sophisticated. GTA V did very well on this note. Gang peds actually had randomised diverse appearances and you had actual characters with unique models involved which made it more meaningful. It actually felt real, know what I mean? GTA IV did this a little too but not enough imo. According to Lamar, gangsters are all practically childhood friends/associates, people who grew up living around each other which would make this idea even more efficient.

 

I'd like to point out this concept thread as an example. In it, the members and characters from the gangs that will be involved in the storyline are all unique characters. I hope that if they revamp GTA SA's entire foundation from the groundup in remaster (unlikely but one can hope) that they do this, personalise the feud.

Edited October 10, 2021 by E Revere

[.Ryan.]

20 hours ago, nick323f said:

This is perhaps the worst missed opportunity when creating GTA IV... if it was still the same universe they could characters of the 3D era at least give some cameos 

Didn’t we get enough of that throughout the 3D era?

 

I mean there are many characters I love from the 3D era, but it’s not like we were starved.

 

Some of these weren’t even cameos necessarily, but full on support roles in multiple games. Phil Cassidy, Salvatore, Toni etc spring to mind. The 3D era characters ran their course and GTA IV didn’t need cameos since it was intended to be a departure and set up its own “universe”. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by MiamiViceCity1986

[Americana]

I really don't understand what Grand Theft Auto 2 was supposed to be.

 

Like, why did they go this direction? Grand Theft Auto 1 was a realistic game, but then they've created a game set in the retro-future...? Why?

[E Revere]

I wish they hadn't gone so far with the 100% mission completion system. I'm a player who likes to take things slow and steady to explore missions as much as I possible can. See all the dialogue, alternate paths, options etc. but something like this instead encourages people to rush through every part of a mission and ignore everything it has to offer to you. More than that, 100% completion depends on breezing through every road and memorising enemy spawn locations rather than anything that actually involves practical skill. Also, some -but not all by a long shot- of the objectives are specialised and in-theme with the mission objectives. They should've done that more rather than slapping a time limit and pinpoint accuracy goals everywhere. In In the Crosshairs, you actually have to skip basically all of the mission to achieve 100% I mean come on. And it has also caused many of GTASeriesGuides' videos to become arbitrary. They used to focus on making things fun in their GTAIV walkthroughs meanwhile the GTA V walkthroughs are lackluster in that aspectl because the 100% objectives force them to rush through every mission without much room for fun. Hell, 100% objectives should've been about exploring missions, not skipping them.

 

CTW did it best imo. You weren't able to achieve a percentage score until you replayed the mission through the notice board.

Edited October 11, 2021 by E Revere

[Guest]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:25 PM, E Revere said:

Why did they have to retcon Catalina into GTA SA? In GTA III, her character design is obviously meant to be a born and raised LC local reflecting real life Latin populations of NYC, she has their accent and a Liberty Tree article says that she's of Dominican and Colombian descent, quite typical for NYC. But they screwed it up in SA by making her a honey-coloured Chicana from the West Coast countryside. Her essence no longer makes sense in III. I don't buy that she could go to LC and climb the ranks of a Colombian Cartel high enough become a co-boss.

What's even more weirder is that the early concept for Catalina's character shown in GTA3's design document video says that she came from Puerto Rico.

 

Interesting how they reused this location idea for Elizabeta Torres and Marta in IV and TLAD, though...

[Killerman29]

while we ban mods yay!

[Troll GT]

On 9/20/2021 at 8:25 AM, E Revere said:

Why did they have to retcon Catalina into GTA SA? In GTA III, her character design is obviously meant to be a born and raised LC local reflecting real life Latin populations of NYC, she has their accent and a Liberty Tree article says that she's of Dominican and Colombian descent, quite typical for NYC. But they screwed it up in SA by making her a honey-coloured Chicana from the West Coast countryside. Her essence no longer makes sense in III. I don't buy that she could go to LC and climb the ranks of a Colombian Cartel high enough become a co-boss.

 

But that same article says that she isn't from Liberty City...