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Tonesta

The Epilogues

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Tonesta

So I just finished the story yesterday, after 200 hours of utter immersion. Just a special gaming experience......

 

......but was I alone in thinking that the epilogue was way, way too long?

 

I get that it was fan service for RDR afficionados and John Marston lovers, and I get that it was trying to fill in the gaps between the two games. I also get that they were trying to slow the pace down after the epic finale to Chapter 6 (the same trick they pulled in the first game).

But I still felt that RDR2 was, essentially, Arthur's story. And to then include a fairly repetitive series of missions that force the player - even if they're ignoring the game outside of the story - to spend at least 6-7 hours playing as a different, and from the perspective of the rest of this game, minor character was a bit much.

 

Would the game actually have lost anything, if the epilogue just consisted of:

 

- Home of the Gentry (start the epilogue with John in the bank buying Beecher's Hope, then have him meeting Uncle on the way out and give him an opportunity for some expositionary dialog to explain what's happened to him, Abigail and Jack over the past seven years)

- Bare Knuckle Friendships (to get Charles back in the fold, and explain what had happened to him)

- One (not four) Bounty Hunting mission with Sadie (to do the same for her - probably either A Quick Favor for an Old Friend, as that was the most epic, or An Honest Day's Labors, as that was the only mission to use New Austin)

- A New Jerusalem (got to build the house)

- A New Future Imagined (John and Abigail mend and deepen their relationship......obviously both heartwarming, and tragic at the same time when you consider what's going to happen)

- American Venom (for closure with Dutch, money, and the joy of shooting Micah six times in the face)

 

I think that would have told the same story more efficiently, but kept it as a genuine epilogue - a minor addition to the story that shares the fate of some of the characters, without taking too much of the focus off the main event which is Arthur's tale.

 

Just my two cents. Aside from Chapter 5, this was the only narrative misstep the game made for me.

 

 

 

Edited by Tonesta

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PapasHota

I wish the epilogues were longer and the chapters 3, 5 and 6 shorter.

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RJX74
1 minute ago, PapasHota said:

I wish the epilogues were longer and the chapters 3, 5 and 6 shorter.

I'd take an epilogue DLC. It was so relaxing. Also pretty sad, cause of how near Chapter 6 was. I was thinking of it's ending the whole time.

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DiEgOw_CrAzY

I loved the epilogue and wish It was even longer, but this still Arthur's game tho

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Rafae S

I feel the same. It was dragged out far longer than it deserved. Playing through it the first time was such a chore, the second and third times were a god damn nightmare. Especially Part One, ugh.

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Obsi

I liked the epilogues.   The learning to ranch stuff was a bit boring, but overall I enjoyed seeing how John got to where RDR started.

 

Perhaps what it needed more was for some of the missions to be optional side quest ones, so anyone who just wants to finish the game quickly can do so, and anyone who enjoys playing as John can spend the time finishing up everything.

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SneakyDeaky

I hated the Epilogues at first. I felt they were too long, had too much busy work and far, far too much retconning for my liking. John felt like a weird demotion. And that's strange because I loved John after RDR, he was my favourite protagonist alongside Niko, yet playing as him again felt really out of place at first and I started to loathe his naivety. Even though I knew what would happen to Arthur, I felt bad leaving him on that cold rock to die. And then suddenly I'm shoveling sh*t.

The only thing that I enjoyed was hearing the classic music from RDR 1, which I still absolutely love. And I enjoyed building the house and I hope that little bird that seemed to just hang out throughout the whole building was Arthur, and that is what Arthur truly wanted for John so he came back to see it.

I am now doing the Epilogues for the second time and I'm honestly enjoying them a lot more. I've accepted Arthur's fate and I've grown to like John again. I think it's a kick to hang out in Tumbleweed in John's classic outfits doing bounties. I also think the Sheriff there is one of the most interesting characters in the game and I've really enjoyed my interactions with him. The whole thing feels like a homage to the first game and basically works, it's nostalgic and brings the whole saga full circle back to John and then tries to tie up a lot of loose ends. But it has too much retconning IMO and perhaps you could take out a lot of the bounty hunting with Sadie and it would still work. 

 

In many ways I would have killed for these Epilogues before playing RDR 2, but at first they felt really weird for me. I like them now a lot more.

 

And I feel the same way about Guama, too. I hated chapter 5, but the second playthrough has been a lot more fun. It's interesting being thrown into a new environment, a new situation, while also having the previous situation (the robbery in St Denis) left to just hang there. I felt like I couldn't wait to get off the island to find out what happened to the gang, and I think that was by design. I like watching Dutch get more insane and selfish while still trying to act like he still wants to fight for something, and Arthur just keeps coughing and his fate draws closer.  Chapter 5 at least makes that ride back to Shady Belle feel quite cathartic. 

 

Basically what I'm saying in this giant wall of text is that I actually find the overall story to be a lot more enjoyable the second time around, once I accepted certain inconsistencies. The story is Rockstar's best, but it's certainly not perfect.
 

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Tonesta
13 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

I hated the Epilogues at first. I felt they were too long, had too much busy work and far, far too much retconning for my liking. John felt like a weird demotion. And that's strange because I loved John after RDR, he was my favourite protagonist alongside Niko, yet playing as him again felt really out of place at first and I started to loathe his naivety. Even though I knew what would happen to Arthur, I felt bad leaving him on that cold rock to die. And then suddenly I'm shoveling sh*t.

The only thing that I enjoyed was hearing the classic music from RDR 1, which I still absolutely love. And I enjoyed building the house and I hope that little bird that seemed to just hang out throughout the whole building was Arthur, and that is what Arthur truly wanted for John so he came back to see it.

I am now doing the Epilogues for the second time and I'm honestly enjoying them a lot more. I've accepted Arthur's fate and I've grown to like John again. I think it's a kick to hang out in Tumbleweed in John's classic outfits doing bounties. I also think the Sheriff there is one of the most interesting characters in the game and I've really enjoyed my interactions with him. The whole thing feels like a homage to the first game and basically works, it's nostalgic and brings the whole saga full circle back to John and then tries to tie up a lot of loose ends. But it has too much retconning IMO and perhaps you could take out a lot of the bounty hunting with Sadie and it would still work. 

 

In many ways I would have killed for these Epilogues before playing RDR 2, but at first they felt really weird for me. I like them now a lot more.

 

And I feel the same way about Guama, too. I hated chapter 5, but the second playthrough has been a lot more fun. It's interesting being thrown into a new environment, a new situation, while also having the previous situation (the robbery in St Denis) left to just hang there. I felt like I couldn't wait to get off the island to find out what happened to the gang, and I think that was by design. I like watching Dutch get more insane and selfish while still trying to act like he still wants to fight for something, and Arthur just keeps coughing and his fate draws closer.  Chapter 5 at least makes that ride back to Shady Belle feel quite cathartic. 

 

Basically what I'm saying in this giant wall of text is that I actually find the overall story to be a lot more enjoyable the second time around, once I accepted certain inconsistencies. The story is Rockstar's best, but it's certainly not perfect.
 

Well, just about to embark on my second play through - so hopefully will find the same! I'm not going to do any of the collectables or challenges this time, so suspect it'll only take a month, rather than three. Although I do intend to spend plenty of time just hanging out in camp before it's too late!

 

And I don't disagree at all about the joys of bouncing around in New Austin with John.....the epilogue free roam, with this huge new and yet old territory to cover, is awesome. It's just the epilogue story missions that I felt were unnecessarily bloated.

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DiEgOw_CrAzY
14 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

I hated the Epilogues at first. I felt they were too long, had too much busy work and far, far too much retconning for my liking. John felt like a weird demotion. And that's strange because I loved John after RDR, he was my favourite protagonist alongside Niko, yet playing as him again felt really out of place at first and I started to loathe his naivety. Even though I knew what would happen to Arthur, I felt bad leaving him on that cold rock to die. And then suddenly I'm shoveling sh*t.

The only thing that I enjoyed was hearing the classic music from RDR 1, which I still absolutely love. And I enjoyed building the house and I hope that little bird that seemed to just hang out throughout the whole building was Arthur, and that is what Arthur truly wanted for John so he came back to see it.

I am now doing the Epilogues for the second time and I'm honestly enjoying them a lot more. I've accepted Arthur's fate and I've grown to like John again. I think it's a kick to hang out in Tumbleweed in John's classic outfits doing bounties. I also think the Sheriff there is one of the most interesting characters in the game and I've really enjoyed my interactions with him. The whole thing feels like a homage to the first game and basically works, it's nostalgic and brings the whole saga full circle back to John and then tries to tie up a lot of loose ends. But it has too much retconning IMO and perhaps you could take out a lot of the bounty hunting with Sadie and it would still work. 

 

In many ways I would have killed for these Epilogues before playing RDR 2, but at first they felt really weird for me. I like them now a lot more.

 

And I feel the same way about Guama, too. I hated chapter 5, but the second playthrough has been a lot more fun. It's interesting being thrown into a new environment, a new situation, while also having the previous situation (the robbery in St Denis) left to just hang there. I felt like I couldn't wait to get off the island to find out what happened to the gang, and I think that was by design. I like watching Dutch get more insane and selfish while still trying to act like he still wants to fight for something, and Arthur just keeps coughing and his fate draws closer.  Chapter 5 at least makes that ride back to Shady Belle feel quite cathartic. 

 

Basically what I'm saying in this giant wall of text is that I actually find the overall story to be a lot more enjoyable the second time around, once I accepted certain inconsistencies. The story is Rockstar's best, but it's certainly not perfect.
 

I totally agree with you, I Love Arthur so much that when I started playing John I got really upset, I Just rushed through epilogue just so I could finish It. But as soon as I started my second playthtought, I already knew what was Arthur's fate, so I player It as a departure If this amazing character and I've done everything possible with hum and when I started epilogue, I could understand and came back to love John again and was glad I could Live in his shoes once more and have ALL his strugles learning to be a rancher and building Becher's Hope with Charles, that was such a beautiful moment ( I missed Arthur so much in there) and could give John a happy ending, atleast in this game... What I'm saying is that my Second playthtought was a Lot more enjoyable in ALL aspects 

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UncleTacitus

Story-wise, yeah I agree, it was too long, but then again on the other hand, playing the game was just so friggin' fun, I was kinda hoping it would never end.

24 minutes ago, DiEgOw_CrAzY said:

I totally agree with you, I Love Arthur so much that when I started playing John I got really upset, I Just rushed through epilogue just so I could finish It. But as soon as I started my second playthtought, I already knew what was Arthur's fate, so I player It as a departure If this amazing character and I've done everything possible with hum and when I started epilogue, I could understand and came back to love John again and was glad I could Live in his shoes once more and have ALL his strugles learning to be a rancher and building Becher's Hope with Charles, that was such a beautiful moment ( I missed Arthur so much in there) and could give John a happy ending, atleast in this game... What I'm saying is that my Second playthtought was a Lot more enjoyable in ALL aspects 

Yes, same here. I didn't rush the prologue on my first playthrough, but I did resent the fact that I had to play as John. But on my second playthrough I suddenly found it much more enjoyable.

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jbtco

I pretty much followed the story line on the way through without trying to chase up everything.  I am now very much enjoying the post epilogue world exploring corners of the map and hadn’t visited and visiting out of the ways places of interest.  I am picking up little missions and bounty hunting not done much hunting but may do some more.  One fun thing was interrupting a train robbery which allowed me to take the train all over the network.

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Boozey St John

RDR2 is Arthur's story but throughout the game I noticed they were building John to be a main character, I instantly knew that John would be playable, just not an entire epilouge. 

 

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Jimbatron

It actually didn’t seem too long to me but I did the vast majority of the collectibles and challenges as Arthur so that probably changes my perspective. Epilogue 1 I pretty much smashed through every story mission (all of which are very easy) without stopping to do other tasks.

 

I think the Epilogue would also feel misplaced if you haven’t played the original RDR as it’s main function plot wise is to act as a bridge between the two stories.

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Mac-

Yea I would have liked a shorter Epilogue, and more with Arthur, maybe a couple of chapters before Blackwater.

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King Vercetti
On January 26, 2019 at 4:55 PM, Obsi said:

I liked the epilogues.   The learning to ranch stuff was a bit boring, but overall I enjoyed seeing how John got to where RDR started.

 

Perhaps what it needed more was for some of the missions to be optional side quest ones, so anyone who just wants to finish the game quickly can do so, and anyone who enjoys playing as John can spend the time finishing up everything.

 

I agree with this. It would have been nice to keep every mission we got for anyone that is really into immersion, but the more menial missions like the work at Pronghorn Ranch should have been optional. That way anyone that wanted to slow down after the end of chapter 6 would have the chance, but anyone that wanted to zip through the rest of the story could do so as well. Personally, I enjoyed every bit of the epilogues, but I can definitely understand why it would be off putting for some and that not everyone wants to go from the epic ending of chapter 6 to ranch work. 

Edited by King Vercetti

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Ray_Velcoro

i have some questions about epilogue , maybe i missed something but:

1. at the very end dutch left money and gold  for John - that was the money from pre-intro blackwater heist ? 
2. when john , dutch and micah had little conversation john said : what are you doing here Dutch .? "Same as  you I suppose" so Dutch was there to kill Micah ? 
3. after Arthur death , dutch and micah went gone separately and the question is , they met again in 1907 or they were together whole time till john  found them 

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Dick Justice

I really liked the epilogues except for the fact that it kind of messed with the pacing. It almost felt like a separate game instead of a natural progression in the same story. 

 

I think rather than being set seven seven years later, it should have been set one year after the death of Arthur and taken course over the following 5 years or so. Maybe John works at Pronghorn for 3 years while coming to terms with how his “family” had fallen apart, then Abigail leaves him and it takes another year to build up Beecher’s Hope. 

 

What hurt me most about the epilogue was the fact that we never really got to got to see anybody mourn for Arthur. Red Dead Redemption had that little moment after John passes where Jack and Abigail bury him on the hill; this was really nice to see and i think the new game misses it quite a bit. 

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Obsi
8 hours ago, Ray_Velcoro said:

i have some questions about epilogue , maybe i missed something but:

1. at the very end dutch left money and gold  for John - that was the money from pre-intro blackwater heist ? 
2. when john , dutch and micah had little conversation john said : what are you doing here Dutch .? "Same as  you I suppose" so Dutch was there to kill Micah ? 
3. after Arthur death , dutch and micah went gone separately and the question is , they met again in 1907 or they were together whole time till john  found them 

1). I believe so yes 

2). I guess it depends on how you interpret it, some people have other ideas but some think that yes that is what he meant
3). It's unclear, although Micah makes a comment about everyone making social calls today (or something like that) which implies that Dutch only arrived there earlier that day...

 

There's another thread on that here:
https://gtaforums.com/topic/923571-what-really-confuses-me-is-how-did-micah-end-up-with/

 

1 hour ago, Dick Justice said:

I think rather than being set seven seven years later, it should have been set one year after the death of Arthur and taken course over the following 5 years or so. Maybe John works at Pronghorn for 3 years while coming to terms with how his “family” had fallen apart, then Abigail leaves him and it takes another year to build up Beecher’s Hope. 

 

What hurt me most about the epilogue was the fact that we never really got to got to see anybody mourn for Arthur. Red Dead Redemption had that little moment after John passes where Jack and Abigail bury him on the hill; this was really nice to see and i think the new game misses it quite a bit. 

 

In my mind I think of it taking at least a year to build up Beecher's Hope - which also explains why Jack and John's relationship was never that strong if he was away again for another long period of time.    Though my John also spent a lot of time hunting and finishing up collections and stuff, so even after Beecher's Hope was finished, he ignored the family a lot!   

I'd really like to know who buried everyone!

 

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Marcinguy

For me the epilogue was also a little too long, or more like a little too meandering at times. I was asking myself sometimes why I'm doing some of this crap. It was more like a whole extra chapter and not really an epilogue.

 

Also, I was extremely relieved when Abigail took off with Jack, and I was finally able to go on my own. Sounds bad, but I guess that's how John felt as well. Anyway, I spent a lot of time after builiding the house just wandering around the map and finishing up side stuff before bringing the family back. Never bothered with the chores either. I think you get about 16 bucks for a full cart of stuff. Nah, just get me that Blackwater money and I'm good 😁.

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O.Z

It might be just me, but to be honest I enjoyed the epilogues more than both the Chapter 5 & 6. 

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Tonesta
9 hours ago, Obsi said:

I'd really like to know who buried everyone!

 

I think we do know that!

 

Charles says that he buried Arthur and Susan.

Sadie says that 'they' (presumably meaning her and others who weren't on Guarma) robbed the morgue in St. Denis to be able to bury Hosea and Lenny.

Dutch ordered Swanson to bury Kieran.

Arthur asks Bill to give Sean a proper burial.

 

But I agree that we didn't really get much time to mourn anyone......let alone Arthur!

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Jutland

The best way I can describe the epilogs is to use a TV season analogy. The epilogs really feel like the opening of a RDR2 Season Two, after they have killed off the main character in the finale to Season One, and now need to establish a new lead character. Odd really. But I still enjoyed them 

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jbtco

I am really enjoying the “post credits” phase of wandering around the open world finishing off bits and pieces eg trying to completely eliminate all the remaining members of the various gangs, following up treasure maps I hadn’t completed, bounty hunts still available etc

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Boozey St John
21 hours ago, Jutland said:

The best way I can describe the epilogs is to use a TV season analogy. The epilogs really feel like the opening of a RDR2 Season Two, after they have killed off the main character in the finale to Season One, and now need to establish a new lead character. Odd really. But I still enjoyed them 

That's actually a very good way of putting it! Well done.

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