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I Like Fun

This game should have started with the Blackwater robbery

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I Like Fun

I love this game but first impressions matter and I feel it could have avoided some of the backlash if it started off with a bang. GTA V had missions that were more boring than anything in RDR2 but it started off with a robbery and then you were speeding through the streets of LS with some arcadey driving so the tone was already set. Despite all the crap later on in the game it set the narrative that V was the game that brought the fun back. I don't agree with that at all and find pretty much every other major GTA more fun but it did get off on the right foot. RDR2 on the other hand made a horrible first impression with many people. It starts with Arthur trudging through the snow in a very slow placed chapter which is the first thing people saw when they played and I think that is what set the narrative that this game is boring and too slow. I loved the tone of the first chapter and I liked it even more on my 2nd playthrough but we live in an instant gratification society with the attention span of a gnat and R should have taken that into account. They could gave still had a great story while still acknowledging the kind of market they are trying to sell to. Also they could keep the realism aspects that I do like but put in an optional arcade mode that takes it all out so people don't whine that they are putting realism over fun. I love this game and to me it is the best story since the TLOU and might be my GOTG but I wish it didn't divide people like it does and I think those changes could have helped avoid this. Rockstar needs to be more aware of the times.

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Ryan5252

The first chapter served as an introduction/tutorial to the game mechanics. Every aspect teaches some skill. I.e. riding basics, crouching, introducing health, stamina and dead eye. Eating, hunting and selling to Mr. Pearson. It also gradually introduces all the gang members. 

 

While trudging painfully slow through the snow there is near constant dialogue which explains alot of the back story. 

 

Although GTAV started on a more "exciting" mission, it was still a learning introduction i.e. point at guard, get in cover etc 

 

Starting in Blackwater would have been too overwhelming. Also, it's heavily alluded to that Dutch started to "change" (the girl). It sets up the mystery for the player. What happened to Sean, Mac, Jenny? Etc. 

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I Like Fun
2 minutes ago, Ryan5252 said:

The first chapter served as an introduction/tutorial to the game mechanics. Every aspect teaches some skill. I.e. riding basics, crouching, introducing health, stamina and dead eye. Eating, hunting and selling to Mr. Pearson. It also gradually introduces all the gang members. 

 

While trudging painfully slow through the snow there is near constant dialogue which explains alot of the back story. 

 

Although GTAV started on a more "exciting" mission, it was still a learning introduction i.e. point at guard, get in cover etc 

 

Starting in Blackwater would have been too overwhelming. Also, it's heavily alluded to that Dutch started to "change" (the girl). It sets up the mystery for the player. What happened to Sean, Mac, Jenny? Etc. 

I fully agree but I feel that starting with some fast paced action would have made a better first impression. V was a tutorial as well but it was a fast paced tutorial that appealed to today's gamers. In many ways both games are the opposite. RDR2 starts slow but ends up with some of the best missions since IV while V starts great until Trevor gets back to LS but ends up with some of the most boring and tedious missions to come from Rockstar but first impressions mean everything. If you don't hook people these days in the first ten minutes you most likely will never hook them.

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ThroatSlasher2

Yeah I agree. Starting with a bang would have done the game's prologue some massive favors by giving us :

 

1) A wild memorable opening with tense set pieces.

2) A tangible sense of danger because we've already seen, before we head in those mountains, the might of the Pinkertons, as opposed to slowly finding it out over the course of 80 missions.

3) A chance to show off every character in action so that we already establish a bond with them of some sort before the tutorial starts.

 

It doesn't mean we can't have the Colter chapter. Keep it as it is and it would probably have been better as well with that Blackwater opening, because we wouldn't feel totally safe in those mountains, just like the characters. 

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Cutter De Blanc

Don't get what was slow about it. I got through Chapter 1 in like 2 hours, right after I brought the game home. If you mean slow paced as in you have to go through like half the story before you can really kinda do everything though, I agree. I also would like to see the Blackwater chapter, but I feel like the events would be too intense for an opening act. 

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Gray-Hand

It was the right decision not to show the Blackwater robbery.  

Firstly, keeping Arthur and the player in the dark about what precisely happened works better for the relationship dynamic with Dutch from a story telling perspective.

Secondly, you just can’t portray an innocent girl getting her brains blown out in the first few minutes of a Triple A game. It’s a non-starter.

 

Having said that - an all action hard opening with Arthur and Hosea being interrupted in the middle of their real estate scam by the rest of the gang fleeing the heist with the Pinkertons in hot pursuit would have worked fine.

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RJX74

I wanted that too, and was disappointed about never seeing it. Looking back now, I don't know if they can ever show that mission and have it live up to the hype.

 

Also Rockstar would have needed to add a ferry to Blackwater lol.

 

 

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Vanzant

Eh, I'm in between the argument. GTAV started with the big heist opening...why repeat that in the next RockStar title?

 

 

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I Like Fun
5 minutes ago, Vanzant said:

Eh, I'm in between the argument. GTAV started with the big heist opening...why repeat that in the next RockStar title?

 

 

To give that good first impression so we don't have a bunch of people calling the game boring and slow. 

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Antipode
45 minutes ago, I Like Fun said:

To give that good first impression so we don't have a bunch of people calling the game boring and slow. 

 

Who cares, the game wasn't made for them.

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Zello
1 hour ago, I Like Fun said:

To give that good first impression so we don't have a bunch of people calling the game boring and slow. 

R* tries to make every game original so they can all stand on their own. If every R* title started with a robbery it'd get old quick.

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O.Z
6 hours ago, I Like Fun said:

I love this game but first impressions matter and I feel it could have avoided some of the backlash if it started off with a bang. GTA V had missions that were more boring than anything in RDR2 but it started off with a robbery and then you were speeding through the streets of LS with some arcadey driving so the tone was already set.

Yeah I remember that first mission with Lamar, I thought to myself - Wow Rockstar has managed to screw up driving big time, it felt like Midnight Club. It was a huge downgrade from GTA IV

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SonOfLiberty

I made a thread about this a few months back and whilst it would've been cool to have a prologue looking back in hindsight after playing through the story I think the whole Blackwater robbery works best as a mystery than something we physically should've seen a bit like when Niko gets betrayed by Darko in GTA IV. We don't get to see the betrayal itself (Because Niko's not even quite sure who betrayed him), but we get pieces of the puzzle slowly revealed throughout the story.

 

Besides Arthur doesn't actually have any involvement in the robbery does he so how would of it worked? Regardless of what people say about it being "slow" I think its current intro is ideal. I like games that pace themselves gradually (Which is why I'm also a mega fan of GTA IV) as I don't like being thrown into the action straight away like a Saints Row or COD game.

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I Like Fun
3 hours ago, O.Z said:

Yeah I remember that first mission with Lamar, I thought to myself - Wow Rockstar has managed to screw up driving big time, it felt like Midnight Club. It was a huge downgrade from GTA IV

True but the masses loved it and it left a good first impression. I like the slow pace of the game and in my book everything is done well except for maybe and even then I think it is better than people give it credit for. That being said it does bother me that the narrative around this great game is that it is boring and too slow and not fun and I think Chapter 1 set that tone. I think a more fast paced first impression could have avoided this. I just don't want the main consensus around this game a year from now to be that it is a bad game that is not fun to play and I see that happening.

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SonOfLiberty
38 minutes ago, I Like Fun said:

True but the masses loved it and it left a good first impression. I like the slow pace of the game and in my book everything is done well except for maybe and even then I think it is better than people give it credit for. That being said it does bother me that the narrative around this great game is that it is boring and too slow and not fun and I think Chapter 1 set that tone. I think a more fast paced first impression could have avoided this. I just don't want the main consensus around this game a year from now to be that it is a bad game that is not fun to play and I see that happening.

At the end of the day does it really matter? This is the kinda thing woggleman would say. I must've missed it before, but the robbery should've only been included for the idiotic masses that can't start a game without guns and explosions?

 

Well f*ck them. The game has plenty of robberies later on and in fact it's only a handful of missions before the gang rob their first train. GTA V starts off with a bang, but its pacing is all over the shop from that point from doing mind numbing, tedious tasks and jumping back and forth between set pieces. The masses may love that sh*t, but I don't personally.

 

There's a saying which I think is appropriate here "Good things come to those who wait".

 

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TheSantader25

I felt the Colter Chapter was far better than people give credit for and was a brilliant start. I actually wish it was longer to show the hardships more. I'm glad it didn't start with the Blackwater robbery. It would be too similar to GTA V. Instead I would like revisiting Blackwater and New Austin in Chapter V. 

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Smokewood

The attack on Colm's camp and the train robbery were pretty damn good.

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Jason

Nah, as others have said, some mystery is good. Not knowing exactly what happened allowed us to sorta fall in love with Dutch as well, if we saw him crack in the first 5 minutes we'd be waiting for him to crack again throughout the entire intro and early chapters even though he only really starts to go a bit nice personoo around late chapter 3. But not seeing what went down meant we only saw what we thought was classic Dutch for the first 2-3 chapters of the game.

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Morgan

I would have liked it too....I was so excited for the game after waiting for so long and after my first hours I felt...well, nothing. Even a little disappointed maybe. I expected that I would be sucked into the game but it didn't. And now many, many hours later it is the best game I have ever played. 

The first 3 chapters I found very slow. Searching for what was actually the goal in the story. From chapter 4 it is really going to run. Now, afterwards I understand that R* wanted to show the contrast between life in the good times and life in the enormously bad times.

I think that I will find chapter 1-3 in my second playtrough more fun because I know the bad times now. Anyway, starting with a big bang would have been fantastic (for me) 😁

Edited by Morgan

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stroup
13 hours ago, I Like Fun said:

To give that good first impression so we don't have a bunch of people calling the game boring and slow. 

Why care so much about what other peoples first impressions are ?

 

Personally I think having a big robbery that goes wrong as the intro/tutorial would have given the impression R* were out of ideas and simply repeating GTAV.  Having it start post the botched robbery, the gang fractured, confused, low morale, hiding out and licking their wounds shows that it is very definitley not GTAV on horseback.

I completed that first section in a couple of hours, if that is too much for other people to get through before the game opens properly then that is their problem and indeed their loss.

I'm still in Chapter 3 by the way and happy just exploring the open world.

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Marcinguy

Maybe they will come out with the Blackwater origin story as a DLC and call it CHAPTER 0?

 

Also, I think Rockstar started the story after the botched heist to establish that there is something not right with Dutch and anyway, Arthur was not part of the heist, so he wouldn't know what happened regardless. It sets up the dynamic between Dutch already going down the wrong path and Arthur starting to seek redemption. You can see that as he starts to question Dutch during the prologue about what's going on.

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JumpingKentFlash

I for one LOVED the on-the-run opening. 

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I Like Fun

You guys are right and I am sorry for posting this. The negativity around this game especially elsewhere on the internet was getting to me and I was wondering if there was a way for Rockstar to meet people halfway so we don't see comments everywhere about how boring and overrated it is without destroying what myself and many others love about this game.

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Antipode
4 hours ago, I Like Fun said:

You guys are right and I am sorry for posting this. The negativity around this game especially elsewhere on the internet was getting to me and I was wondering if there was a way for Rockstar to meet people halfway so we don't see comments everywhere about how boring and overrated it is without destroying what myself and many others love about this game.

What negativity? I haven't really encountered negativity regarding the reception of RDR2 except for here from a certain member and anecdotal reports from you.

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Zello
5 hours ago, JumpingKentFlash said:

I for one LOVED the on-the-run opening. 

Yeah it made Dutch's speech more powerful. If we played through the robbery and Dutch acts like he did in the later parts of the game. It'd lose its meaning IMO.

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stroup
5 hours ago, I Like Fun said:

You guys are right and I am sorry for posting this. The negativity around this game especially elsewhere on the internet was getting to me and I was wondering if there was a way for Rockstar to meet people halfway so we don't see comments everywhere about how boring and overrated it is without destroying what myself and many others love about this game.

The negativity I have seen about the game is about the online version.  And I'm a part of that.  No lobby options = No interest for me and friends I played GTAO with.

Single player (so far) is a masterpiece.

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I Like Fun
29 minutes ago, Antipode said:

What negativity? I haven't really encountered negativity regarding the reception of RDR2 except for here from a certain member and anecdotal reports from you.

Elsewhere it is very divisive. This game is possibly my game of the generation but let's not kid ourselves. I was just wondering if there wasn't a way that Rockstar could have pleased everybody. I do wonder why the first one wasn't this polarizing though. Besides some of the survival and maintenance stuff it wasn't that different but you didn't see the whining about it being slow and not respecting the player's time. Maybe since RDR2 was so hyped people who don't even like Rockstar games anyway bought it and ended up not liking it. I see a lot of comments from people who say they it has terrible gameplay like all R games and if that is the case why did they buy something from a developer they don't like.

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Antipode
14 minutes ago, I Like Fun said:

Elsewhere it is very divisive. This game is possibly my game of the generation but let's not kid ourselves. I was just wondering if there wasn't a way that Rockstar could have pleased everybody. I do wonder why the first one wasn't this polarizing though. Besides some of the survival and maintenance stuff it wasn't that different but you didn't see the whining about it being slow and not respecting the player's time. Maybe since RDR2 was so hyped people who don't even like Rockstar games anyway bought it and ended up not liking it. I see a lot of comments from people who say they it has terrible gameplay like all R games and if that is the case why did they buy something from a developer they don't like.

As I've said, the game wasn't made for them. RDR is meant to be an even paced slow burner of a game. It is not GTA, it is not COD, it's a mature game for mature audiences with an interest in a niche genre that westerns occupy. The masses bought the game solely off of Rockstar's reputation, so of course there will be discord amongst the younger and less patient player base whom are more interested in fast paced action packed games like GTA, Fortnite, COD, etc.

So no, I don't think Rockstar should cater to them, nor should they. You can't please everybody, and by trying to please everybody, you often end up pleasing nobody.

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stroup

Probably because the first one didn't have the same level of hype around it, nor was it coming off the back of the record breaking business GTA5 & Online had done. 

It was simply the next R* game. 

 

Not "The first R* Game since GTAV/O !!!!!"
 

The success of V & especially online has changed some of the dynamic of the people buying RDR2.  If you try and please idiots you make a game for idiots.  If you don't please idiots idiots make idiotic complaints.  It's in their nature.

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I Like Fun
1 minute ago, Antipode said:

As I've said, the game wasn't made for them. RDR is meant to be an even paced slow burner of a game. It is not GTA, it is not COD, it's a mature game for mature audiences with an interest in a niche genre that westerns occupy. The masses bought the game solely off of Rockstar's reputation, so of course there will be discord amongst the younger and less patient player base whom are more interested in fast paced action packed games like GTA, Fortnite, COD, etc.

So no, I don't think Rockstar should cater to them, nor should they. You can't please everybody, and by trying to please everybody, you often end up pleasing nobody.

They should have done their research before they fell into the hype. I don't like turn based RPGs at all but I don't make thread after thread on other forums whining about Persona 5 and being angry that it got so many good reviews. It just isn't my thing and I wish people who didn't like this game could be the same way. The only concession R maybe should have made is fast travel to and from anywhere because then people can choose whether or not they want to use it but they shouldn't have changed what the game is.

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