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Grotti Vigilante

POLL: Should John...

Should John Marston have gone after Micah Bell in the epilogue?  

73 members have voted

  1. 1. Should John Marston have gone after Micah Bell in the epilogue?

    • Yes
      31
    • No
      39
    • Unsure
      3


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Grotti Vigilante

For any of us who have finished Red Dead Redemption II, we know what happens. After Sadie finds Micah's old friend Cleet in Strawberry, John and Charles join her in hunting down Micah as revenge for Arthur. Now Rockstar obviously did this for story purposes and to tie up loose ends, and it certainly felt good shooting Micah in the face several times. But from an objective standpoint, should John Marston have actually gone after Micah Bell? Or do you think he should've listened to Abigail and stayed behind? Personally, I feel that even though it was good to tie up loose ends and get rid of the scum that was Micah, the fact that Arthur believed vengeance was a fool's game alone should've discouraged him. John himself says that living on the ranch wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for Arthur, and that is true. But then surely that means he should try to honour his memory and not risk his new life that Arthur tried his best to let him have? 


Ultimately, even if John didn't go after Micah, Sadie and Charles had every intention of going and had much less to lose, and even if they didn't kill Micah, and even if Dutch didn't in the end, he would've been tracked down eventually. If Sadie could find him, then Agent Ross would've been able to given his access to better resources and such. Plus he's a detective so there's them inherent skills.You could argue that Micah was still a bit of a rat anyway still working for the Pinkertons, given that Ross found his body and used the clues to track down John, but anyone who played the first game would know that Ross wouldn't have let him live in the end once all the outlaws and members of the Van Der Linde Gang were gone. From the very point civilisation began to tame the old frontier, Micah's days were numbered if he continued being an outlaw, especially given that he had no intentions of living a normal life like John did beforehand. His psychopathic nature is too strong for him to do that.

 

But what do you think? Should John have gone after Micah in the epilogue, or should he have stayed behind and let things transpire elsewhere while he carried on his new life? As I said, I think if not for himself or Abigail, John should've stayed behind for Arthur. Leave your thoughts below and have a vote in the poll above. 

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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TheSantader25

No. Arthur says multiple times that vengeance is an idiot's game. John f*cked up all of Arthur's efforts. Dutch would kill Micah anyways. 

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Mirror Park Resident

It's easy to say no knowing what happens 4 years after, but in this case revenge (the fools' game) doesn't even make that sense at all. 

 

Micah f*cked up in Blackwater, he became a rat, but ultimately was Dutch who made the worst turn on Arthur. Not once, but 2 or 3 times. Go after him, or even after Edgar Ross, before caring about a rat that had the gang leader's favour all of the time. 

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Cutter De Blanc

No, John is a fool and it cost him his life and his family. His poor descions finally overcome his good luck in the end.

 

It pissed me off to no end that during the last mission Charles is all like, "I think revenge is a concept Arthur could get behind" Like in the end, he didn't f*cking understand Arthur at all

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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ThroatSlasher2

No but it makes for great storytelling. Everyone wanted to kill that scum Micah and when we got rid of him, we understood the consequences of our actions.

 

Rockstar made us doom John Marston. It's utterly brilliant.

 

2 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

No, John is a fool and it cost him his life and his family. His poor descions finally overcome his good luck in the end.

 

It pissed me off to no end that during the last mission Charles is all like, "I think revenge is a concept Arthur could get behind" Like in the end, he didn't f*cking understand Arthur at all

Didn't Charles actually say that Arthur probably wouldn't agree to them going after Micah?

Edited by ThroatSlasher2

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Cutter De Blanc
27 minutes ago, ThroatSlasher2 said:

 

Didn't Charles actually say that Arthur probably wouldn't agree to them going after Micah?

No, he didn't.  I'd have to replay the last mission for the exact quote,  but as they're riding to the mountain Charles says something along the lines of he thinks revenge would be a concept Arthur could get behind. 

 

It sort of felt like he was trying to rationalize his own descion to go up there after Micah

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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RJX74

Should John Have? No

Would Arthur have wanted that? No

Did I want him to? Yes

Do I care that it resulted in his death? No, worth it to me.

 

I'm not gonna lie, when I played Arthur's last mission and Micah left. I was like: Ehhhh I don't care if he gets away with it.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

No, he didn't.  I'd have to replay the last mission for the exact quote,  but as they're riding to the mountain Charles says something along the lines of he thinks revenge would be a concept Arthur could get behind. 

So I had a suspicion and looked it up. It's different based on honor. For low honor he says Arthur would have understood, for high honor they say he wouldn't have cared. ThoratSlasher is right too :D

(Bad)

(Good)

Pretty cool!

Edited by RJX74

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Cutter De Blanc

Never saw the good version. Goddamn Sadie is SO obnoxious. She just shoots Charles down, "Well he wanted to get Micah and THATS WHAT WE'RE DOIN" If anything it was her revenge mission that she dragged those two along for. 

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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TheSantader25

It's not like the way we killed Micah was the most satisfying way anyway. I would prefer Arthur spitting in his mouth OR throwing him off the cliff during the fist fight. 

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Grotti Vigilante
10 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

Never saw the good version. Goddamn Sadie is SO obnoxious. She just shoots Charles down, "Well he wanted to get Micah and THATS WHAT WE'RE DOIN" If anything it was her revenge mission that she dragged those two along for. 

Sadie at that point is just so darn irrational that she's almost as psychopathic as Micah. I mean when Colm O'Driscoll was about to get hanged, it could've been as simple as just watching it and then leaving, since they had a disguise and all that. But no, she just cannot in the very slightest control her emotions, and she just began stabbing and shooting O'Driscoll's boys and causing a shootout. I can easily get behind the idea of Sadie doing it for her own vengeful reasons while telling herself Arthur wanted to get him too. Her own loyalty to Arthur and such is probably what makes her better than Micah.

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ThroatSlasher2
19 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

Never saw the good version. Goddamn Sadie is SO obnoxious. She just shoots Charles down, "Well he wanted to get Micah and THATS WHAT WE'RE DOIN" If anything it was her revenge mission that she dragged those two along for. 

She's got a point but she's not seeing the whole picture, willingly perhaps. Arthur did want to kill Micah, yes, but Arthur didn't have anything to lose at that point. He was a lonely, sick and dying man. I'm sure he would be livid at seeing John put everything he worked for on the line just for worthless scum like Micah. 

 

Micah was doomed anyway. The civilized world would have dealt with him eventually and a certain Mr. Van der Linde could have precipitated his demise as well. But Sadie, like with the O'Driscolls, just couldn't let go.  

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UncleTacitus

Of course. Micah betrayed him same as everyone else. Bullet in the face was much more than he deserved. Okay, maybe he should have taken the law with him or something, but storywise it was only logical thing to do. Being a farmer was always Abigail's dream, not his.

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RJX74
26 minutes ago, ThroatSlasher2 said:

Micah was doomed anyway. The civilized world would have dealt with him eventually and a certain Mr. Van der Linde could have precipitated his demise as well. But Sadie, like with the O'Driscolls, just couldn't let go.  

Or Edgar Ross. He had a habit of killing the gang members he was working with. Probably would have used him to hunt down Dutch, Williamson and Escuella before takiing him out.

 

Edit: And John...maybe.

Edited by RJX74

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ThroatSlasher2

I'm not sure John would have been killed if he hadn't let Ross know he was around again by murdering Micah. By disposing of this piece of sh*t, Marston proved he was still a force to be reckoned with (or dealt with) as well as show he was an individual with a dangerous set of skills that could prove hard to stop if said individual stopped complying.  

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Corndawg93

Arthur told John to run and don't look back, killing Miceh breaks that promise 

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Guest Guest176525326
12 minutes ago, Corndawg93 said:

Arthur told John to run and don't look back, killing Miceh breaks that promise 

I can't believe all these people who are voting no...

 

John Marston is not a pussy, so lets just say for an arguments sake that he didn't go back... would he then have never been caught by Ross and lived happily ever after? Who knows... however would John have been living a life wondering why the hell didn't he go back and avenge his friends death? You can bet your life on it. 

 

Living your life with constant regrets can be almost as bad as not living at all.

 

John Marston is a legend and I'm glad he went back

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Cutter De Blanc

Did he act in character? Yes, sure because he's a damn idiot, that wasn't the question.  

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Grotti Vigilante
10 minutes ago, O.Z said:

I can't believe all these people who are voting no...

 

John Marston is not a pussy, so lets just say for an arguments sake that he didn't go back... would he then have never been caught by Ross and lived happily ever after? Who knows... however would John have been living a life wondering why the hell didn't he go back and avenge his friends death? You can bet your life on it. 

 

Living your life with constant regrets can be almost as bad as not living at all.

 

John Marston is a legend and I'm glad he went back

The reason most of us are voting no is simple. Arthur wanted John to run away and not look back. He insisted that revenge was a fool's game even before he got Tuberculosis. John not going back wouldn't have made him, in your words, "a pussy". It would be honouring the death of someone who in his dying breaths tried to help John get a new life away from that of an outlaw, so while it was satisfying to shoot Micah in the face, it was in direct disgrace of Arthur's memory. I don't personally think any rational person would regret not going back to avenge a friend's death if said friend wanted them to just carry on with a new normal life and insisted it was a fool's game. If I died so my friend could have a new lifestyle away from the old one with his family, the last thing I'd want is for him to go and start playing the game of revenge and almost throw it all away for one little rat who would've been dealt with sooner or later. 

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Guest Guest176525326
14 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

 If I died so my friend could have a new lifestyle away from the old one with his family, the last thing I'd want is for him to go and start playing the game of revenge and almost throw it all away for one little rat who would've been dealt with sooner or later. 

 

And who exactly would have dealt with that rat Micah? Dutch? Give me a f**king break, that guy is useless. I'm glad John Marston went after him...

 

I'm surprised to see so many people bad mouthing John these days, especially after playing RDR2 where they fell in love with Arthur Morgan and don't get me wrong so did I, mainly thanks to the outstanding voice over. But lets not forget about what Red Dead Redemption is all about and that is John Marston, Arthur Morgan weather you like it or not is juts a side kick to John Marston's story. 

 

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Grotti Vigilante
Just now, O.Z said:

And who exactly would have dealt with that rat Micah? Dutch? Give me a f**king break, that guy is useless. I'm glad John Marston went after him...

As explained earlier, if Dutch didn't deal with Micah, Sadie and Charles would've done so for their own agenda. They had every intention of going after Micah from the start, and they had so little to lose from it. John had much more to lose. If not that, then Agent Ross would've went after Micah sooner or later when civilisation began to take hold. If Micah was still working with the Pinkertons at that point in time, then he would've been copped off eventually. Agent Ross didn't believe that John was redeemable, so Micah wouldn't have even had a chance to run away. 

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Obsi
12 hours ago, RJX74 said:

Should John Have? No

Would Arthur have wanted that? No

Did I want him to? Yes

That's my thoughts too :D   No John shouldn't have, but as a player - I wanted to.  Although I would have been more satisfied if Micah had caught TB from Arthur....  That would really have made me laugh after him calling Arthur Black Lung - I think it would have been poetic justice if his beating up Arthur resulted in him catching TB.  (although if he did, I guess he wouldn't have still been around 7 years later for the epilogue)

 

I understand his taking on the bounties for money, but going after Micah was for revenge and risking his new life for nothing.  So it was a stupid move.  But it's also somewhat expected from the type of person John is.

 

But, how does he know Micah killed Arthur?   He should really only want revenge for Micah being the rat.   If only Micah, Arthur and Dutch were up there on the mountain after John left.... someone must have gone back and buried Arthur (and Susan) afterwards.. but I imagine it wouldn't have been John, or Dutch.   Sadie wouldn't have known where Arthur had ended up - so I'm guessing maybe Charles tracked him?  So unless Charles then guesstimated what happened and told the others?

There's nothing to say that Ross wouldn't have tracked John down eventually anyway, without him having gone after Micah.  With his bouncing around between being Jim Milton and John Marston whenever he gives his name, it wouldn't have been hard for someone to report John was in the area, and him to be tracked down that way.  Mr Geddes (Pronghorn ranch) knows that Jim Milton bought Beecher's Hope, and that he's also called John.... the banker in Blackwater knows John as Milton and Marston...and the mail guy in Strawberry knows John Marston is Jim Milton.  So all it would take is someone reporting that John Marston is using the name Jim Milton, and he's able to be tracked from there.

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Gray-Hand

Consider what might have happened if John hadn’t gone after Micah:

 

1.  Charles and Sadie probably would have died going after Micah on their own.

2.  The Marston’s might very well have lost their farm to the bank.

 

Dutch probably would have killed Micah anyway, and probably would have taken the money for himself.  Ross would have still been on the hunt for the Blackwater money and would have eventually come across John because John did such a bad job of hiding.

 

So, taking down Micah probably didn’t change anything except make John, Sadie and Charles rich.  As a result of obtaining the Blackwater money, Charles and probably Sadie were able to set up new lives.

 

Also - anyone who didn’t kill Micah by unloading 6 explosive pistol rounds into his dick, didn’t do it right.

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RedDadRedemption

Should of been able to take over as john sadie and charles in the epilogue like michael trevor and franklin and you get to choose who kills micah

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I Like Fun

No because it is what led to his demise. Sadie even sort of tries to discourage him during that mission where he almost get's killed by the bear because she saw what he had at stake when she visited his ranch. At the end of the day Micah probably would have gotten himself killed anyway because a man like that easily makes enemies.

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HeyThereFriend

John is my all time favorite video game character. Having said that the decision to go after Micah was so unbelievably dumb and selfish.

 

He completely ignored what Arthur worked for to get him. Arthur never cared about revenge and made that very clear all throughout.

 

However I don't believe it would've changed anything. Micah was still going to be killed by Dutch, if Sadie and Charles weren't able to.

 

Ross would of still found Micah's body, how did he know John was the one to kill him? He didn't, he found one of Dutch's Boys dead and assumed it was one of the old gang who did it, that leaves John, Dutch, Sadie, Charles and Uncle.

 

I'd imagine Ross first assumed Dutch did it since Micah was a rat. After following a trail, he found John. I think what happens to John was unavoidable, as long as Micah was killed and found, John was screwed, no matter who pulled the trigger. 

 

Which on the subject of Micah's death, it's the one thing in this game I really disliked. They made him completely badass by walking it of like "Huh didn't see that coming". Either that or they made the most important antagonist death comedic. Which it shouldn't of been. It was that satisfying killing him with that death he got.

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Cutter De Blanc
1 hour ago, HeyThereFriend said:

John is my all time favorite video game character. Having said that the decision to go after Micah was so unbelievably dumb and selfish.

 

He completely ignored what Arthur worked for to get him. Arthur never cared about revenge and made that very clear all throughout.

 

However I don't believe it would've changed anything. Micah was still going to be killed by Dutch, if Sadie and Charles weren't able to.

 

Ross would of still found Micah's body, how did he know John was the one to kill him? He didn't, he found one of Dutch's Boys dead and assumed it was one of the old gang who did it, that leaves John, Dutch, Sadie, Charles and Uncle.

And Pearson, Tilly, Karen, Bill, Javier... buncha the old gang coulda potentially done it, not just those five. 

 

At the end you see Ross presumably doing detective work and asking people questions, so its not like he just blindly assumed who it was. 

 

I really wonder how a bulldog like Edgar Ross would've just let the blood thirsty murderer Sadie Adler get away scott free. I mean she'd made some reputation for herself as a bounty hunter so it's not like she was just an unknown farmer's wife anymore, how come she gets to survive all this?

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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HeyThereFriend
31 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

And Pearson, Tilly, Karen, Bill, Javier... buncha the old gang coulda potentially done it, not just those five. 

 

At the end you see Ross presumably doing detective work and asking people questions, so its not like he just blindly assumed who it was. 

 

I really wonder how a bulldog like Edgar Ross would've just let the blood thirsty murderer Sadie Adler get away scott free. I mean she'd made some reputation for herself as a bounty hunter so it's not like she was just an unknown farmer's wife anymore, how come she gets to survive all this?

Yeah I really don't understand how Sadie gets away with it. Tilly, Mary Beth, Mary Beth I could see, they didn't do nearly as much Outlaw related things as Dutch, John, Bill etc. Pearson has a picture of him in the gang right in his shop in Rhodes, how he wasn't killed, I have no clue.

 

Sadie living and going to South America very much sounds like a set up for DLC. Maybe she dies in that.

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Gray-Hand

She left the country and moved to somewhere in South America.  Same with Charles moving to Canada.

 

Also, she pretty much confined her mayhem to other criminals like the O’Driscols and other outlaws, so she probably just wasn’t on the radar of the authorities like Bill and Javier were.

 

In fact, I reckon the chances are pretty good that if Bill and Javier had kept their heads down and hadn’t attracted attention by leading violent gangs, Ross would have just moved on to other targets and wouldn’t have even bothered with going after John.

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Mirror Park Resident
12 hours ago, Gray-Hand said:

She left the country and moved to somewhere in South America.  Same with Charles moving to Canada.

 

Also, she pretty much confined her mayhem to other criminals like the O’Driscols and other outlaws, so she probably just wasn’t on the radar of the authorities like Bill and Javier were.

 

In fact, I reckon the chances are pretty good that if Bill and Javier had kept their heads down and hadn’t attracted attention by leading violent gangs, Ross would have just moved on to other targets and wouldn’t have even bothered with going after John.

Javier was way off radar until he presumably helped Bill to escape to Mexico. Whatever he was doing down there (helping the government against the rebels) wasn't Bureau's issue.

Edited by Fluffy Sock

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Morgan Ranch Dressing

Honestly, I think it would've only been a matter of time until Micah became a problem for John again, even despite Arthur's wishes I think it was right for John to do what he did. In one of the endings Micah even says he's going to kill John after he kills Arthur.

 

I don't buy that going after Micah is the reason Ross found him. He was going by his true name in Blackwater right next to the Pinkerton Detective headquarters. He would've been found eventually and that was his biggest mistake.

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