Reporting griefers - is it worth it?

[DentureDynamite]

On 5/11/2020 at 11:38 PM, STNeish said:

So... here's something that happened tonight.

 

I was in the saloon in Valentine, when I suddenly caught fire and then an explosion under me tossed me repeatedly into the air until I was dead.  This is nothing new, but on this occasion, it said I was killed by Somebodyorother (not the actual name).  It doesn't usually SAY who did it, so I thought I'd report them, but found I couldn't type in the report box to describe the infraction.  Meanwhile, I was burned and blown up 4 or 5 more times.

 

[snip]

 

Seriously, I don't know if Rockstar pays attention to these forums, or if anyone here has their ear, but THIS may be the single most important thing they need to get fixed.  The hacking is diminishing the playerbase, and therefor the CUSTOMER base for the game.  More, I would not be surprised to find that the hacking is at least in part responsible for many of the OTHER problems.  Perhaps animal spawns are borked because someone somewhere is making it rain cougars.  Perhaps the camps are not spawning properly because someone is pushing players under the geometry.  Perhaps the server instability is caused by so many people screwing with it.

 

Either way, this SERIOUSLY needs looking into.

I had a similar thing happen to me last night just south of Rhodes--was set on fire (and my horse killed) by a stream of flame shooting up from the ground.

 

Typical cheaters using a "mod" menu (a yawn for GTA Online), so I quickly left the session. Have also run into the two-headed skeletons that attack you, and the giant animals roaming around the map.

 

All I can say is, "good luck" to those of us playing on PC. We knew it would be an issue, but R* cares far less about fixing and improving RDO than they do GTA Online (and we know their track record well for that game).

Edited May 15, 2020 by DentureDynamite

[311Gryphon]

On 5/13/2020 at 3:35 PM, Buddy Hightower said:

Well, you are simply wrong. The rules of the game are clear. Anyone can shoot anyone for any reason. To call someone a griefer for playing a game the way it was designed, is ridiculous. That's like saying you are playing chess but the other guy isn't allow to take your pieces. 

Look, I hate PvP in rockstar games - it's a waste of time and in-game money. However I'm not mad at the players, they are just playing.

You should be mad at rockstar and vote with your wallet and quit playing.

I haven't logged into online in months other than to look around and log back out.

The game rules aren't clear.   You CAN shoot other players, but that's not a "rule".  It's also somewhat laughable to suggest that a game with a built in honor system doesn't have some sort of morality to it.  They have determined what is "good" and what is "bad" already.  Now, I'll not say you're entirely wrong because A) It's a game where you can shoot other people, 2) It's just a game, and D) we all have different opinions about what the unspoken code should be.  You're not wrong, but neither is someone who says you shouldn't get shot while fishing.  So I'll say this...if you shoot someone while they're shopping or fishing or doing something else that is obviously not threat to you then you're a coward and a griefer.  Not you personally, but you get what I'm saying.  It's possible.  The game allows it.  Should you do it?  No.  The old west wasn't that way either contrary to TV shows and movies.  People did get bushwhacked from time to time but it wasn't nearly as bloodthirsty as what everyone thinks it was.  

 

Also, the analogy of chess is a bit weak.  The comparison you're trying to make would be more like agreeing to have a gunfight with someone in RDO and then getting mad that they shot at you.  If you join a chess game you obviously know you'll lose pieces...if you do a stranger mission in RDO you know someone might attack you to get XP and money.  The analogy you're looking for is if you go into a game room with other people, start playing a game of solitaire, and someone comes and takes your cards just because they can.  And yeah, I'd be miffed at that too.

 

So, serious question.  I started taking out a hideout, just after I started another guy attacked the hideout from the other side.  It was clear I was there first, and while I was annoyed I also understood.  These things happen.  After we cleared it we both started looting bodies.  The other player shot me.  I respawned and went back and just looted another body, and they shot me again.  Griefing or not?  I'm assuming they thought I was intruding and looting bodies they deserved to loot, but I did half the work.  We wound up in a bit of a gunfight but I'm not a fan of those kinds of online pissing contests that don't matter so I tried to ride away and they kept chasing me down.  I mean, I did kill them the 3rd time they got close to me so I may have been asking for a battle, but I had just had enough and wanted a small piece of revenge.  Eventually they stopped chasing me down and I went about my business.  

[Buddy Hightower]

3 minutes ago, 311Gryphon said:

So, serious question.  I started taking out a hideout, just after I started another guy attacked the hideout from the other side.  It was clear I was there first, and while I was annoyed I also understood.  These things happen.  After we cleared it we both started looting bodies.  The other player shot me.  I respawned and went back and just looted another body, and they shot me again.  Griefing or not? 

not

[Direwrath]

1 hour ago, 311Gryphon said:

So, serious question.  I started taking out a hideout, just after I started another guy attacked the hideout from the other side.  It was clear I was there first, and while I was annoyed I also understood.  These things happen.  After we cleared it we both started looting bodies.  The other player shot me.  I respawned and went back and just looted another body, and they shot me again.  Griefing or not?  I'm assuming they thought I was intruding and looting bodies they deserved to loot, but I did half the work.  We wound up in a bit of a gunfight but I'm not a fan of those kinds of online pissing contests that don't matter so I tried to ride away and they kept chasing me down.  I mean, I did kill them the 3rd time they got close to me so I may have been asking for a battle, but I had just had enough and wanted a small piece of revenge.  Eventually they stopped chasing me down and I went about my business.  

The fact that they kept chasing you down as you were fleeing does show some intent to grief. You both got your chance at vengeance I feel, so when you lowered your guns and fled that should have been the end of it. 

 

Now why the player shot you in the first place either they were mad that you got the rewards from the hideout or they were trying to get all of the loot. If that wasn't the case then they were just being jerks. I think they were jaded and bored to be honest.

 

I will always give the other player a chance to turn back and run after the initial fight, if they are obviously jumping on their horse to get away or running the other direction from me they are done and well so am I. For example, yesterday I was riding into St Denis and had two low level players messing with a dead npc in the road. They were both level 5 so just starting out, anyways as I was riding by one of them aimed their gun and fired at me. Figuring they thought I was going to mess with them I just kept riding by, it wasn't like they were doing me any damage. But as I was riding away from them they shot me in the back three more times so I stopped my horse, pulled out my rifle and waited for them to come at me. Both made the smart move and took off the other way and I went back to doing what I was going to do. If they had kept coming I would have filled them full of lead, and if I would have chased them down I feel I would have become the griefer.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Direwrath

[eighthdoctor]

2 hours ago, 311Gryphon said:

So, serious question.  I started taking out a hideout, just after I started another guy attacked the hideout from the other side.  It was clear I was there first, and while I was annoyed I also understood.  These things happen.  After we cleared it we both started looting bodies.  The other player shot me.  I respawned and went back and just looted another body, and they shot me again.  Griefing or not?  I'm assuming they thought I was intruding and looting bodies they deserved to loot, but I did half the work.  We wound up in a bit of a gunfight but I'm not a fan of those kinds of online pissing contests that don't matter so I tried to ride away and they kept chasing me down.  I mean, I did kill them the 3rd time they got close to me so I may have been asking for a battle, but I had just had enough and wanted a small piece of revenge.  Eventually they stopped chasing me down and I went about my business.  

Yeah I'd call that griefing if they kept going after you. That and a combination of greed as it seems they wanted the loot to YOUR kills as well even though you did the work for those. I'd do the same to be honest in your position and have done before a few weeks back when another player shot maybe one or 2 maximum revenue agents (I'd gotten one of the random bootlegger roadblock events to spawn) and I got all the rest, he then shot me in the back as I opened the loot box in one of the wagons but after I'd killed him twice he parlayed so... 

Edited June 4, 2020 by eighthdoctor

[CosmicBuffalo]

 

2 hours ago, 311Gryphon said:

So, serious question.  I started taking out a hideout, just after I started another guy attacked the hideout from the other side.  It was clear I was there first, and while I was annoyed I also understood.  These things happen.  After we cleared it we both started looting bodies.  The other player shot me.  I respawned and went back and just looted another body, and they shot me again.  Griefing or not?  I'm assuming they thought I was intruding and looting bodies they deserved to loot, but I did half the work.  We wound up in a bit of a gunfight but I'm not a fan of those kinds of online pissing contests that don't matter so I tried to ride away and they kept chasing me down.  I mean, I did kill them the 3rd time they got close to me so I may have been asking for a battle, but I had just had enough and wanted a small piece of revenge.  Eventually they stopped chasing me down and I went about my business.  

Yes, you were griefed...they interrupted you twice while looting bodies that you had dispatched.  If you were looting bodies that the other player had clear claim to, then techincally you griefed them...meaning if they had killed the npc and it was clear they were looting all bodies but you looted their kills.   If it wasnt clear who had claim to the body, then you were griefed.

Edited June 4, 2020 by CosmicBuffalo

[STNeish]

With regard to hitting hideouts... my feeling is that those are sort of like zone events.  They're open to everyone.  My usual plan is to go in and help clear it.  I often don't bother looting, because my goal is to have the fun of the shootout.  Now, I've been tagged by other players while doing them, and I've tagged other players... by ACCIDENT.  It happens.  When I've been tagged by another player, I shrug and carry on, interpreting it as an accident.  However, I've NEVER been shown the same consideration.  If I accidentally tag someone, even if I specifically apologize for it (and I've never accidentally killed anyone), they ALWAYS wait for me to start a hat tip emote or start getting on my horse, and they shoot me in the head.

 

Shooting someone who is unable to react to defend themselves is cowardly, and I call it griefing.

[Buddy Hightower]

14 hours ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

 

Yes, you were griefed...they interrupted you twice while looting bodies that you had dispatched.  If you were looting bodies that the other player had clear claim to, then techincally you griefed them...meaning if they had killed the npc and it was clear they were looting all bodies but you looted their kills.   If it wasnt clear who had claim to the body, then you were griefed.

No one has claim to anything. A dead body can be looted by anyone. The way I see it, they were competing over who gets to loot the bodies.

[AmyStone]

1 hour ago, Buddy Hightower said:

No one has claim to anything. A dead body can be looted by anyone. The way I see it, they were competing over who gets to loot the bodies.

So you would feel the same way if you shot an animal and someone else skinned it?

[Buddy Hightower]

14 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

So you would feel the same way if you shot an animal and someone else skinned it?

yep... 

To be clear it may be a dick move, and I wouldn't do it, but there isn't a rule against it - so it isn't griefing, it's just playing the game the way it is designed.

[CosmicBuffalo]

 

7 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

No one has claim to anything. A dead body can be looted by anyone. The way I see it, they were competing over who gets to loot the bodies.

Actually, stated rules prevent grefing because there is another purpose to your activity.  A lack of rules is where even slight a interruption of a player or harassing a player in anyway is griefing.  Are there any rules that prevent me shooting afk players? no....is it griefing? yes.  I added elements to his hypothetical to show that he could have been the griefer, but its unlikely as he said...he was just looting bodies and they started on one side of the hideout and worked toward the middle, so it was unclear who had claim to the body.

 

People actually did rage about other players looting bodies after they had cleared a hideout in beta.  So, yeah, looting bodies can be considered griefing if another player is doing the same and made the kills.

Edited June 5, 2020 by CosmicBuffalo

[Buddy Hightower]

1 minute ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

 

Actually, stated rules prevent grefing because there is another purpose to your activity.  A lack of rules is where even slight a interruption of a player or harassing a player in anyway is griefing.  Are there any rules that prevent me shooting afk players...no, is it griefing? yes.  I added elements to his hypothetical to show that he could have been the griefer, but its unlikely as he said...he was just looting bodies.

 

People actually did rage about other players looting bodies after they had cleared a hideout in beta.  So, yeah, looting bodies can be considered griefing if another player is doing the same and made the kills.

As long as the game allows it, it isn't griefing.

[Direwrath]

5 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

yep... 

To be clear it may be a dick move, and I wouldn't do it, but there isn't a rule against it - so it isn't griefing, it's just playing the game the way it is designed.

Rules don't have to be told to be followed. R* has made the mistake of expecting players to be somewhat decent, the fact that they have to state as rules that what should be common sense is a big problem. How are you sure the game was designed to be that way, or maybe it was designed that way to allow other players who help out one another the chance to share the spoils with each other? What if that is the actual unspoken rule? You see when a rule is not set in stone you fall back on proper etiquette, most players do this. Some like in the situation above, do not.

[CosmicBuffalo]

1 minute ago, Buddy Hightower said:

As long as the game allows it, it isn't griefing.

Ok, thats a bit out there...

[AmyStone]

6 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

it's just playing the game the way it is designed.

So nothing is griefing then unless someone is exploiting a glitch?

Edited June 5, 2020 by AmyStone

[PS-GTAIVplayer]

Unless someone is doing something that involves cheating, you cannot justifiably report. 

[netnow66]

2 hours ago, PS-GTAIVplayer said:

Unless someone is doing something that involves cheating, you cannot justifiably report. 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I don't share it.

 

Even the game's report function doesn't agree with your opinion.

[AmyStone]

On 6/7/2020 at 1:05 AM, PS-GTAIVplayer said:

Unless someone is doing something that involves cheating, you cannot justifiably report. 

Grefing has been made fairly difficult in Red Dead but i think people call something griefing when it is just part of the game. As a female something that irritates me and makes me feel uncomfortable it getting lassoed and ties up my a male character. But I don't think that is grieifing though. It's just part of the game and a parley is only a button press away. But it is possible to bend the rules of the game to cause annoyance to others. You could start a 20 minute mission then attack someone which would then have the parley option removed. That's something you could justifiably report.

[PS-GTAIVplayer]

On 6/7/2020 at 3:42 AM, netnow66 said:

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I don't share it.

 

Even the game's report function doesn't agree with your opinion.

 

6 hours ago, AmyStone said:

Grefing has been made fairly difficult in Red Dead but i think people call something griefing when it is just part of the game. As a female something that irritates me and makes me feel uncomfortable it getting lassoed and ties up my a male character. But I don't think that is grieifing though. It's just part of the game and a parley is only a button press away. But it is possible to bend the rules of the game to cause annoyance to others. You could start a 20 minute mission then attack someone which would then have the parley option removed. That's something you could justifiably report.

Usually I just leave a session if there's someone who's abusive, which can someone who's using disgusting language or just being a pest, unless in a mission. That probably is a bit cowardly. I sometimes report, but  unlike GTA Online, spawn killing doesn't happen (for me anyhow), but going to another session means hunting in peace and quiet. I wonder if reports do anything.