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Vik2390

Red Dead Online Next Updates Speculation Thread

Recommended Posts

DrKrankenstein

@pizzza, you could always try EA games ;)

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Pocket Fox

EA games is a publisher, not a developer.

 

Let's all just admit it folks... Rockstar is totally 100% deep-dick f*cked if CD Project Red start making Western or Modern Gangster open-world games.

Pretty much Take Two shares will drop to a few cents overnight.

A competent developer who actually communicates with their audience and doesn't monetising the living sh*t out of EVERYTHING.

 

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Felipeborges388
Just now, Pocket Fox said:

EA games is a publisher, not a developer.

 

Let's all just admit it folks... Rockstar is totally 100% deep-dick f*cked if CD Project Red start making Western or Modern Gangster open-world games.

Pretty much Take Two shares will drop to a few cents overnight.

A competent developer who actually communicates with their audience and doesn't monetising the living sh*t out of EVERYTHING.

 

 

Rockstar SP has no microtransaction and CD Project Red didn't have any game with multiplayer for you to state that. Cyberpunk multiplayer is sure to have microtransactions.

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Leftover Pizza
2 hours ago, DrKrankenstein said:

@pizzza, you could always try EA games ;)

 

Why compare with one worse than Rockstar? To make Rockstar look better? Not gonna fly here. 
Frankly, I don't give a sh*t about who develops what and which publisher publishes it. If I play a game I want it to be fun and not a frustrating experience like RDO is now. Games just have to work. Exploring work arounds to get to a point where I can temporary enjoy the game is not a way of playing I pursuit neither. If I have time to play a game for my entertainment, I don't wanna end up jumping through hoops to be entertained half that time. 
 

Edited by Leftover Pizza
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rusbeckia
2 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

EA games is a publisher, not a developer.

 

Let's all just admit it folks... Rockstar is totally 100% deep-dick f*cked if CD Project Red start making Western or Modern Gangster open-world games.

Pretty much Take Two shares will drop to a few cents overnight.

A competent developer who actually communicates with their audience and doesn't monetising the living sh*t out of EVERYTHING.

 

lol. Don‘t you think that assumption is a little bit naive? 
how many players would turn it‘s back to r* cause another developer releases a wild-west-game? 2% of R*‘s playerbase? 
 

“communication with audience“ is such a naively romantic perception of how multi-million software development projects are working. yea it went well with few hundred thousand players in the 2000s or with few million players in the 2010s (and we‘re talking bout single player games here), but do you have any idea how the infrastructure behind such big projects is working? 
how long it takes for a bug report to reach the responsible developers? 
and I‘m not even talking about change- or feature-requests. 

i‘m not saying that R*s behavior couldn’t be improved or that all they‘re doing is fine, but I‘m sometimes getting annoyed by the occasional „r* is such a sh*thole of a company that don‘t give a f*ck about their playerbase“-moaning. 

also, R* has always been very secretive about their projects, so it‘s not really surprising that they aren‘t giving us any insight in what‘s to come.
 

Monetizing the sh*t out of everything? Please tell me how the mtx in RDO are comparable to the sh*tshow we‘re seeing at EA e.g. 

Edited by rusbeckia
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executor404

Rockstar still creates the highest rated games, the story mode of RDR2 on it's own is worth the $60. Maybe even more, if you compare it to other games with the same price like CoD.

 

CD Projekt also creates succesfull singleplayer campaigns, but they never implemented a multiplayer component. If one company is succesfull, it doesn't mean that an other company will fail. Both can prosper, if both still have customers.

 

The mtx in RDO are very light and transparent, no pay2win, no gambling, you get what you pay for.

 

Players won't pay for online expansions and it would split the playerbase, that's why mtx exist. The whales finance the game for everybody else, and it is more profitable. How is that bad? The notion of mtx-free multiplayer with top notch content support for years to come is naive. CDPR also smells that money, but they want to implement it very soft and player-friendly after the launch of 2077. You will see.

 

I think the launch of the PC version was a disaster, but RDO? We know it was never their focus during development and they didn't even advertise it before launch, they just said it existed. Rockstar isn't stupid, they are aware of the issues. If they could fix it so easily, they would do it immediately.

Edited by executor404
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Failed Again

before I player RDR, I thought Rockstar, only made energy drinks..

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Leftover Pizza
36 minutes ago, executor404 said:

I think the launch of the PC version was a disaster, but RDO? We know it was never their focus during development and they didn't even advertise it before launch, they just said it existed. Rockstar isn't stupid, they are aware of the issues. If they could fix it so easily, they would do it immediately.

 

That I have to disagree on. If what you say is valid, then we'd be playing in small enough lobbies to handle the data traffic for at least a month ago already. 

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kcole4001

If they can fix these issues, then it should be expedited.

If they CAN'T, then they should at least say it can't currently be done and why.

A little communication goes a long way to build trust.

The high handed approach R* prefers wears thin really fast.

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Commander S
8 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

EA games is a publisher, not a developer.

 

Let's all just admit it folks... Rockstar is totally 100% deep-dick f*cked if CD Project Red start making Western or Modern Gangster open-world games.

Pretty much Take Two shares will drop to a few cents overnight.

A competent developer who actually communicates with their audience and doesn't monetising the living sh*t out of EVERYTHING.

 

 

I doubt it, simply because 'too big to fail' is a thing. Same reason why Activision/Blizzard games are still going to be big sellers, regardless of the recent Hong Kong controversy, or why no matter how much people complain about EA's business model, EA games also still sell like hotcakes.

 

Meanwhile, R* manage to avoid EA levels of backlash (GTAO only ever seems to make headlines for being a continued success - never because of monetisation-related concerns), and their output still ticks all the "prestige"/"AAA" videogame boxes enough to for people to consider R* titles as being among the very best on the market (as long as 'the AAA-iest of AAA' is your standard for quality, obviously).

 

...quite honestly, R* could announce a shift away from single-player to Online-style live-services only from now on (unlikely, because the Housers are all about their movie-inspired single-player games first and foremost), and the vast majority of the game-buying public would just shrug and roll with it. Imagine R* doing the equivalent to Fallout 76 - it'd probably sell better than Fallout 76 (which, controversies aside, still didn't fail from a business standpoint), just on brand recognition alone.

 

 

As for CDPR, I can imagine Cyberpunk 2077 possibly doing comparable numbers to RDR2 at best, but not GTA V - if 2077's multiplayer is an ongoing GTAO-style thing, then that might be a healthy competitor as an experience, but while it'll be good for players that they most likely won't milk players wallets like GTAO, the trade-off is that they won't be able to rake in GTAO amounts of money to compete with it on a fiscal front, either.

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Rokushakubo
3 hours ago, Leftover Pizza said:

 

That I have to disagree on. If what you say is valid, then we'd be playing in small enough lobbies to handle the data traffic for at least a month ago already. 

He's not wrong. I've been in full lobbies where camp has spawned fine and animals roam aplenty. It's anecdotal to say that full lobbies are causing this--I was in a lobby with 12 the other day and still couldn't get my camp to spawn. 

 

I've spoken to devs as a video game writer for sites and I know from many discussions with AAA to indie devs that the process of finding solutions for issues can be "like walking through a minefield" as they navigate code to find the issue while not breaking the game in 10 new ways as a result. Sometimes fixing a bug requires reworking vast swathes of code or changing how game functions work and simply can't be rushed. 

 

I see all the time "they know, they just don't care" or similar sentiments but it's BS. They care because a well polished game gets gamer retention and in live experiences that brings revenue and they damn well care about that. I'm not an apologist, I get frustrated with the camp and animal spawn issues but I understand the process better than most as a result of being in the game news business. 

 

You've done the best thing, deleting for now and moving on to other games. Enough of the game works for me to be patient with the stuff that doesn't and I'll just keep enjoying the way I do and getting ever richer. 

 

 

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Leftover Pizza
16 minutes ago, Rokushakubo said:

He's not wrong. I've been in full lobbies where camp has spawned fine and animals roam aplenty. It's anecdotal to say that full lobbies are causing this--I was in a lobby with 12 the other day and still couldn't get my camp to spawn. 

 

I've spoken to devs as a video game writer for sites and I know from many discussions with AAA to indie devs that the process of finding solutions for issues can be "like walking through a minefield" as they navigate code to find the issue while not breaking the game in 10 new ways as a result. Sometimes fixing a bug requires reworking vast swathes of code or changing how game functions work and simply can't be rushed. 

 

I see all the time "they know, they just don't care" or similar sentiments but it's BS. They care because a well polished game gets gamer retention and in live experiences that brings revenue and they damn well care about that. I'm not an apologist, I get frustrated with the camp and animal spawn issues but I understand the process better than most as a result of being in the game news business. 

 

You've done the best thing, deleting for now and moving on to other games. Enough of the game works for me to be patient with the stuff that doesn't and I'll just keep enjoying the way I do and getting ever richer. 

 

 


While I do not doubt your experiences as a writer and interviewer, I do question the information they give you to publish. 
 

I judge by what I see and what I see is issues not being addressed, or even acknowledged. Us console plebs have had issues for quite some time now and had to deal with Rockstar silence or minimal patch notes like "fixed stability issues" at best. 
 

Now, a PC release came up. Rockstar delivered a broken game and launcher, but this time widely apologized to the yet much smaller PC player base. Patch notes for PC seems a lot more informative, listing issue fixes. 
 

Would they have done this for console players earlier, we might have been more tolerant towards them. 
 

We don't get many signs they care and we're not journalists here, so don't do away the majority's opinions as BS. Not only because it's the opinion of many, but also not very objective.

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Rokushakubo
7 minutes ago, Leftover Pizza said:


While I do not doubt your experiences as a writer and interviewer, I do question the information they give you to publish. 
 

I judge by what I see and what I see is issues not being addressed, or even acknowledged. Us console plebs have had issues for quite some time now and had to deal with Rockstar silence or minimal patch notes like "fixed stability issues" at best. 
 

Now, a PC release came up. Rockstar delivered a broken game and launcher, but this time widely apologized to the yet much smaller PC player base. Patch notes for PC seems a lot more informative, listing issue fixes. 
 

Would they have done this for console players earlier, we might have been more tolerant towards them. 
 

We don't get many signs they care and we're not journalists here, so don't do away the majority's opinions as BS. Not only because it's the opinion of many, but also not very objective.

 

The info pertaining to this stuff was never for publishing. It was off the record chat as I covered games I enjoyed playing and I'd always be like "so, you know I play your game a lot and well, about this issue...". 

 

I will say that R*'s communication is god awful. I didn't write about Elder Scrolls Online but did play it and they have weekly streams with the devs talking about issues and balance and it was so transparent. Same with DeeJ, the CM for Destiny. Again I never spoke to him but it was great having someone to address the community. 

 

All I said was BS is that they don't care. That, objectively, is not true. 

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Leftover Pizza
22 minutes ago, Rokushakubo said:

 

The info pertaining to this stuff was never for publishing. It was off the record chat as I covered games I enjoyed playing and I'd always be like "so, you know I play your game a lot and well, about this issue...". 

 

I will say that R*'s communication is god awful. I didn't write about Elder Scrolls Online but did play it and they have weekly streams with the devs talking about issues and balance and it was so transparent. Same with DeeJ, the CM for Destiny. Again I never spoke to him but it was great having someone to address the community. 

 

All I said was BS is that they don't care. That, objectively, is not true. 


You'll have to excuse me, but I don't really think some off record chats convince of their care for the player base much or at all.

 

Again, we judge by what we see and what we see ain't always a pretty picture. 

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Red Lynx 23

I was, and still am hoping to get to witness some of the Legendary Bounties on the gallows, and being hung. Barberella Alcazar especially. And if time moves forwards, that RDO catches up with RDR 2 like GTA Online did with the heists update. Then I hope we get to be the ones who capture Colm O'Driscoll, and deliver him to the jail in Saint Denis.

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Shadowfennekin
32 minutes ago, Red Lynx 23 said:

I was, and still am hoping to get to witness some of the Legendary Bounties on the gallows, and being hung. Barberella Alcazar especially. And if time moves forwards, that RDO catches up with RDR 2 like GTA Online did with the heists update. Then I hope we get to be the ones who capture Colm O'Driscoll, and deliver him to the jail in Saint Denis.

Oh I really hope we can do that!

There already were Legendary Bounties we can't kill, it'd be awesome if our character got some involvement in the main story and captured that damn O'Driscoll

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Jason

CDPR will never have an impact on Rockstar in any shape or form. No studio will.

 

Rockstar's single player experiences are still highly, highly rated and adored by tens of millions of players, they as a company are more popular than ever. GTA VI's launch will be absolutely gigantic and will undoubtedly be the best selling game of the generation, whether that's this gen or the next. As long as they keep producing these single player experiences this isn't going to change.

 

As for their online, yea definitely Rockstar's online is lacklustre to say the least and riddled with problems many of which go unfixed for a long time along with some questionable design choices, yet they still remain among the most popular multiplayer games on the planet which IMO is largely due to the fact that they provide a very unique online experience, a sandbox style experience with progression set in an incredible open world. When you look at all the online modes around these days, there's nothing really like GTAO and RDO.

 

Rockstar will fall if the quality of their games noses dives, which it won't. Their online experiences may never be great and they may produce a "meh" single player experience in future but the resources they have at their disposal mean their games will still retain a quality level that other studios struggle to hit with even one of their games.

Edited by Jason
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Xtf
7 hours ago, Rokushakubo said:

The info pertaining to this stuff was never for publishing. It was off the record chat as I covered games I enjoyed playing and I'd always be like "so, you know I play your game a lot and well, about this issue...". 

Did they ever address why they never bothered to fix the 1st red dead online when public sessions broke about 6 months after launch? 

 

That issue seemed to be caused by an infinite spawn bug and I would guess the issues we are currently seeing are due to a similar weakness in code that was not spotted as the previous issue was never addressed.

 

As you pointed out there is a lot going on behind the scenes, and occasionally a fix for one thing can break a lot of other things but with a complete absense of communication from the developer we have no evidence they ever tried to fix the previous game or were even aware of it. So when they release another game in the same series that also seems to have issues tracking assets it seems logical that it is the same route cause.

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Foxwolfe
7 hours ago, Leftover Pizza said:


You'll have to excuse me, but I don't really think some off record chats convince of their care for the player base much or at all.

 

Again, we judge by what we see and what we see ain't always a pretty picture. 

What's been said is true though, just because Rockstar is poor at communication (whatever their reason may be) doesn't change the way game development works.

 

And I say this as someone that did game testing for 5 years, I've worked at larger places like Microsoft and Nintendo doing offsite testing (when the developer was in another town/state) and also worked directly with a developer at their in studio QA (while working for WB Games). Most of the devs I've communicated with have been through bug reports or emails but while at WB (and by extension Monolith and Snowblind) I was at times communicating directly with the dev team in person. In most cases everyone working on the game enjoys what they do and what they're working on, just because someone at the top is making choices for the company as a whole (such as lack of communication compared to other studios) doesn't mean the people making the game don't care. And yeah, I can't count how many times I'd get a bug report sent back to me as fixed in the upcoming build only for it to not be fixed, and for this to go on for build after build.

 

Also as games get larger and more complicated this stuff only gets worse, doesn't excuse any of it but I hope it at least helps put it a bit more into perspective.

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Rokushakubo
57 minutes ago, Xtf said:

Did they ever address why they never bothered to fix the 1st red dead online when public sessions broke about 6 months after launch? 

 

That issue seemed to be caused by an infinite spawn bug and I would guess the issues we are currently seeing are due to a similar weakness in code that was not spotted as the previous issue was never addressed.

 

As you pointed out there is a lot going on behind the scenes, and occasionally a fix for one thing can break a lot of other things but with a complete absense of communication from the developer we have no evidence they ever tried to fix the previous game or were even aware of it. So when they release another game in the same series that also seems to have issues tracking assets it seems logical that it is the same route cause.

R* seldom address anything. The most open I've seen them recently was back in the day when they'd talk about the future of the game in he newswire updates. I think the reason they aren't is because they don't need to be. Their games are too big with too many players, they've probably seen that people will play regardless of current issues. 

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rusbeckia
15 minutes ago, Foxwolfe said:

And yeah, I can't count how many times I'd get a bug report sent back to me as fixed in the upcoming build only for it to not be fixed, and for this to go on for build after build.

This is what most people who‘ve never seen any software development project from inside don‘t get. Developers themselves DO NOT validate the code they‘re writing. It simply isn‘t logistically possible in such big projects. this might lead to the fact that fixed bugs are broken again in the next build, cause you simply can‘t test real conditions in a test environment and you can‘t build a test environment which acts like the live system.

6 minutes ago, Rokushakubo said:

R* seldom address anything. The most open I've seen them recently was back in the day when they'd talk about the future of the game in he newswire updates. I think the reason they aren't is because they don't need to be. Their games are too big with too many players, they've probably seen that people will play regardless of current issues. 

It‘s basically just PR-strategy imo. They KNOW people will play no matter what and definitely can afford to lose some Joe who boycotts them for being secretive. 
there wouldn‘t be so much hype about every dlc if they would announce it half a year ahead. and I‘d go even that far to say that the average player just doesn‘t care when what dlc is coming, what bugs they are fixing, etc. the average player wants to play a game for max a few hours in the evening and don‘t care about what the hardcore enthusiasts are on about.

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Leftover Pizza
1 hour ago, Foxwolfe said:

What's been said is true though, just because Rockstar is poor at communication (whatever their reason may be) doesn't change the way game development works.

 

And I say this as someone that did game testing for 5 years, I've worked at larger places like Microsoft and Nintendo doing offsite testing (when the developer was in another town/state) and also worked directly with a developer at their in studio QA (while working for WB Games). Most of the devs I've communicated with have been through bug reports or emails but while at WB (and by extension Monolith and Snowblind) I was at times communicating directly with the dev team in person. In most cases everyone working on the game enjoys what they do and what they're working on, just because someone at the top is making choices for the company as a whole (such as lack of communication compared to other studios) doesn't mean the people making the game don't care. And yeah, I can't count how many times I'd get a bug report sent back to me as fixed in the upcoming build only for it to not be fixed, and for this to go on for build after build.

 

Also as games get larger and more complicated this stuff only gets worse, doesn't excuse any of it but I hope it at least helps put it a bit more into perspective.


I appreciate your feedback and will return the favor by giving some insight from my perspective in general. 
I am a prototype enduser. I buy a product or service/license and expect it to work as advertised. Whatever happened behind the scenes and by whom X or Y part is developed or manufactured, doesn’t interest me much, as long as it works the way I expect it to work and paid for. If not, we have a problem and I want to know what’s going to be done about it, so I can use my purchased product/service/license as agreed. I’m not interested in what went wrong or who made a mistake or which individual is going to fix it, as long as the company I deal with meets up with our agreement and delivers me a working end

product. 
 

This also means that when I say “they don’t care” (why this was even brought up in this discussion kinda baffles me in the first place), I address the company responsible and not the individual who broke or fixes it. As I said, prototype enduser=me. 

 

Edited by Leftover Pizza
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Rokushakubo

That's fair enough. It's not an unreasonable expectation that what you paid for works as intended. Single player is a highly polished, relatively bug free masterpiece but whenever you have an evolving multiplayer experience you're simply not going to get that in many cases. Bugs and issues in games-as-a-service titles are just part and parcel because devs don't know how their game is going to run until it's out in the wild and properly play tested by millions. 

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rusbeckia
1 hour ago, Leftover Pizza said:

I buy a product or service/license and expect it to work as advertised.

You first and foremost bought a sp game which is working flawlessly imo. 

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Leftover Pizza
19 minutes ago, rusbeckia said:

You first and foremost bought a sp game which is working flawlessly imo. 

 
I bought SP +access to Online as a package. We all did. Playing Online is free, accessing it requires the purchase of the single player game, thus paid access. 

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Felipeborges388

I know that RDO and GTO have problems, this is my experience.

 

I play GTA Online and Red Dead Online regularly and there has never been any big problem. Of course I've been disconnected a few times in all these years playing, this is normal in any online game. The only problem I had in RDO was spawning the camp, I found that if you select the camp through the R1 / RB menu it will always spawn. In the matter of microtransactions, I never bought it and I have everything, it's just a matter of playing the game, it gives you ways to make money.

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hotrats773
6 hours ago, rusbeckia said:

you simply can‘t test real conditions in a test environment and you can‘t build a test environment which acts like the live system.

Have to call this out here. Maybe back in the early 2000s this was true but since then, there are many automation tools and scaling simulations that can test load balancing on a huge scale (Twitter does this with their platform to test back-end patches as do many large companies). There are third-party companies dedicated to wide-scale QA testing. I'm thinking a billion-dollar company has the resources to suss this stuff out. The camp spawning may have something to do with a bug that was introduced after release (they seemed to span just fine at early release). I'm thinking the camp spawn bug is not load related but may have been introduced unintentionally with other fixes ie, sh*t R* had to patch to prevent glitching or some other f*ckery. All that said, a little communication goes a long way and Rockstar's hideous track record on that front is...well..... hideous.

 

3 hours ago, rusbeckia said:

You first and foremost bought a sp game which is working flawlessly imo. 

Sorry. Have to call this out as well. I work in development QA and support. Our product includes a cloud component that we don't advertise since it's built-in and assumed to be part of the package. When it breaks or there is an outage, we sure hear about it. We can't hide from our users and say "Well it's just a component, you just paid for the ability to ___________." We would be laughed out of the business. Our name is on it. We own it; we support it.

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Lonely-Martin
17 hours ago, Commander S said:

I doubt it, simply because 'too big to fail' is a thing.

 

7 hours ago, Rokushakubo said:

Their games are too big with too many players, they've probably seen that people will play regardless of current issues. 

Yep, spot on!

 

17 hours ago, Commander S said:

...quite honestly, R* could announce a shift away from single-player to Online-style live-services only from now on (unlikely, because the Housers are all about their movie-inspired single-player games first and foremost), and the vast majority of the game-buying public would just shrug and roll with it.

Something I dread with each quarterly review, lol.

 

I'd add more as to why I expect that, but it was a ramble and it's been proven more than enough, it's pointless. Though it'll surely please some if I shut up about this game, lol. I never mean to bring others down, but I am pissed my passion is being killed and I'm powerless more and more.

 

It's got to the stage where I can't even look at the PS4 without feeling resentment at the moment. Bit weird, but I know I am a bit of a gaming addict so was always gonna sting to rip off that plaster. But alas, I'll soon find other fun in life of course, just a shame I can see so much good 'just over that fence' and be excited by that potential and know it'll never come now.

 

Been great reading here though, some good people here and I appreciate anyone that tried. But my days are done I'm afraid, I'll stick to just reading this section and enjoy the shenanigans I see.

 

Peace out all. :)

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Tomtomsengermany

hm, no one?

 

Screenshot_20191122-090121.png

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XLG The Joker

^ I can’t see anything..

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