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Vik2390

Red Dead Online Next Updates Speculation Thread

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lekis69
8 hours ago, El Diablo 702 said:

What I posted was what was there from day 1.  Did gta have it’s problems, yes, in fact it had major issues but those were fixed somewhat quickly.  The content expectations of rdr for most players is we mostly wanted a big portion of what gtao launched with, what we got was a tiny portion of that with limited choices of how to play the content that was there.  Now while the businesses of rdr added to the content the game is even more broken now than at release.  Truth is content doesn’t mean sh*t if you can’t play it.

yes it was but it still was nothing to write home about it got boring real quick you act like it was the best game that came out but it wasn't. RDO launch was handled wrong but if they had just thrown in GTAO's content it wouldn't have worked its different game with different mechanics but they course corrected quickly and got content out faster then they did in GTAO if RDO where going the same route we would have PvP, Stanger missions and races thats it but we have alot more and guess what GTAO had contact missions, PvP, races so yes RDO is alot farther along in its life cycle which is all I had said to start not which was better, they both have problems period, RDO has bugs and GTAO has a toxic player base so you really have a hard time playing the content in both games. (Truth is content doesn’t mean sh*t if you can’t play it.) that is so true but don't act like its only the one game and if I have to choose between bugs or toxic players I will choose bugs cause at least I can work around them.

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lekis69
Posted (edited)

and 

8 hours ago, hotrats773 said:

You don't have to wait long. This is what was released in the FIRST YEAR ALONE (and ironically, none of these were game breaking that I can remember):

 

2014
GTA Online Festive Surprise DLC - The second Christmas themed update brought snow to Los Santos, as well as a handful of clothes, weapons and vehicles.

GTA Online Last Team Standing Update - As the name suggests, this update added the LTS game mode to GTA Online alongside two weapons and three vehicles.

GTA Online San Andreas Flight School Update - This DLC added four new vehicles to the game, as well as flag parachutes and the Flight School missions, allowing players to train as crack pilots.

GTA Online Independence Day Special DLC - Following the theme of 'MURICA, this update added the Musket weapon, a Monster Truck, a bike, rural safehouses and massive amount of new clothing for a limited time. It was re-introduced in 2015.

GTA Online I'm Not A Hipster Update - This DLC added two new weapons, a whopping 7 new cars and a dozen new missions. New customization options go without saying.

GTA Online High Life Update - Another update focusing on luxury and riches, High Life adds a few new vehicles, a new weapon, and a handful of clothes and apartments - as well as new missions with which to earn cash for buying all that.

GTA Online Business Update - A minor update adding some new vehicles, weapons and customization items with a common formal theme.

GTA Online Valentine's Day Massacre Special DLC - Going for a retro gangster look, this DLC adds retro clothing, the Roosevelt old timer and the Sweeper, GTA's take on the Tommy Gun.

 

2013
GTA Online Holiday Gifts DLC - The first Christmas DLC, adding festive clothes and snow.

GTA Online Capture Update - This DLC brought the capture game mode to GTA Online.

GTA Online Content Creator Update - The extremely versatile Content Creator, which allows players to build their own missions in GTA Online, was added alongside a handful of bugfixes in this update.

GTA Online Beach Bum Update - The first content update to ever grace GTA Online, Beach Bum added several new vehicles, two new weapons, and countless new customization items and jobs to the game.

 

Source: https://www.gtaboom.com/gta-online-update-dlc-history/

 

Edit: This is content that was added to the already plentiful content, I might add.

of coarse they weren't game breaking they they didn't change the game they just added more sh*t to buy or different variation of sh*t already in the game nothing ground breaking up until heists they did nothing to change the game in a meaningful way just added more of the same. hell the content creator was the only thing that keep the game alive for the first year and a half if they didn't have that it would have died because they were slow to add anything else that wasn't overpriced sh*t to the store. Thank you for putting that timeline up you kind of proved my point. RDO has put out more meaningful playable content in its first year and a half then GTAO did and it's right there for you all to read. I not saying which is better they both have there highs and lows but RDO is on a better path then GTAO was when it first came out 

Edited by lekis69
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hotrats773

 

2 hours ago, lekis69 said:

of coarse they weren't game breaking they they didn't change the game they just added more sh*t to buy or different variation of sh*t already in the game nothing ground breaking up until heists they did nothing to change the game in a meaningful way

 

We were talking about quantity, not quality. You can't keep moving the goalposts and expect to have a meaningful argument. And one man's trash is another man's treasure. As a day-one player of both, I have no horse in the race. I love both. As far as "sh*t to do" whether it's repetitive or not, GTA wins, hands down.

 

2 hours ago, lekis69 said:

RDO is on a better path then GTAO was when it first came out 

Tell me about the game breaking bugs that GTA had after 15 months. And I'm talking about features that simply did not work  and/or caused GTA to be nearly unplayable (whether you liked them or not). I can't name a single one.

 

RDO on the other hand...

Camps

Animal Spawns

Moonshine Deliveries

Constant black/blue screens

 

For f*ck sakes, to say it's on a better path is like playing the fiddle as the Titanic goes under.

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lekis69
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, hotrats773 said:

 

 

We were talking about quantity, not quality. You can't keep moving the goalposts and expect to have a meaningful argument. And one man's trash is another man's treasure. As a day-one player of both, I have no horse in the race. I love both. As far as "sh*t to do" whether it's repetitive or not, GTA wins, hands down.

 

Tell me about the game breaking bugs that GTA had after 15 months. And I'm talking about features that simply did not work  and/or caused GTA to be nearly unplayable (whether you liked them or not). I can't name a single one.

 

RDO on the other hand...

Camps

Animal Spawns

Moonshine Deliveries

Constant black/blue screens

 

For f*ck sakes, to say it's on a better path is like playing the fiddle as the Titanic goes under.

20 hours ago, lekis69 said:

yes if you compare the two RDO is ahead of GTAO in terms content and mission quality but GTAO is ahead on reasons to spend the money you earn. 

my goal post has not changed I have always been talking about quality not quantity thats their argument not mine. quantity GTA wins 

 

we all live with bugs in all games execpt a few now a days I dont really expect anything else so I just deal with them. it is what it is.

GTA is unplayable for other reasons mainly greifers/modders/hackers

 

yes its on a better path its not perfect but if it goes for as long as GTAO it has the makings of a great game but things do need to be fixed, of course never said it didn't just saying that with mission quality RDO has been doing it better. 

 

I love both too played GTAO day one but because I switched to just PC I couldn't play RDO day one but jumped in as soon as I could.

Edited by lekis69

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TagoKG

hope we can get some news about pass3 or dlc next week ,but probably no

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ventogt
2 hours ago, TagoKG said:

hope we can get some news about pass3 or dlc next week ,but probably no

Probably more rank 10 benefits like a free shirt and double XP on roles and PvP.  For the next 3 months.  

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TerryJamieKingDonovan
On 3/26/2020 at 5:24 PM, hotrats773 said:

 

 

We were talking about quantity, not quality. You can't keep moving the goalposts and expect to have a meaningful argument. And one man's trash is another man's treasure. As a day-one player of both, I have no horse in the race. I love both. As far as "sh*t to do" whether it's repetitive or not, GTA wins, hands down.

 

Tell me about the game breaking bugs that GTA had after 15 months. And I'm talking about features that simply did not work  and/or caused GTA to be nearly unplayable (whether you liked them or not). I can't name a single one.

 

RDO on the other hand...

Camps

Animal Spawns

Moonshine Deliveries

Constant black/blue screens

 

For f*ck sakes, to say it's on a better path is like playing the fiddle as the Titanic goes under.

That is the thing though.

GTA Online Title Updates did not really have "quantity" either.


The entire first year around, they only introduced new clothes, weapons and vehicles.

All of which are also in new Red Dead Online Title Updates, actually I am pretty sure that Red Dead Online got more clothing added in its first year than GTA Online did.

 

The main issue with Red Dead Online, is that its Online infrastructure just is not built for a Peer2Peer system, (if the "preacher" gonnanodothat is to be believed) they even planned to have Red Dead Online hosted on actual dedicated servers, however, it seems like Take Two cheaped out unfortunately.

 

It also seems like Rockstar is constantly emphasizing in Interviews how they don't want to "jump the shark too soon" with each Update.
I personally believe they are waiting for the Next Generation Versions of Red Dead Online, to really go all out, and perhaps even introduce its own server system(maybe PS5 and XBOX have their own server Infrastructure R*/Take Two is able to rent).

Reminds me of GTA Online to be honest, Updates started to become substantial once GTA Online was released on Next Gen Versions.

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hotrats773
4 minutes ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

The main issue with Red Dead Online, is that its Online infrastructure just is not built for a Peer2Peer system, (if the "preacher" gonnanodothat is to be believed) they even planned to have Red Dead Online hosted on actual dedicated servers, however, it seems like Take Two cheaped out unfortunately.

Thats the crux of the biscuit right there.

 

This cut-rate, dime store peer to peer bullsh*t needs to f*cking stop like last week. I'm sure they know that so I don't get the head scratching on R* part AT ALL. I'm sure having a server farm dedicated to R* titles would not interfere with Straus Zelnick's yacht payment so I just don't get the refusal to address the issue from an infrastructure standpoint. At the very least, in the current age of social distancing, let us have invite-only or solo lobbies. WT actual F Rockstar?

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ventogt
1 hour ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

...It also seems like Rockstar is constantly emphasizing in Interviews how they don't want to "jump the shark too soon" with each Update.
I personally believe they are waiting for the Next Generation Versions of Red Dead Online, to really go all out, and perhaps even introduce its own server system(maybe PS5 and XBOX have their own server Infrastructure R*/Take Two is able to rent).

Reminds me of GTA Online to be honest, Updates started to become substantial once GTA Online was released on Next Gen Versions.

An excerpt from the article: "But none of this is set in stone, we’re still absorbing the feedback from players from these initial roles and we will see how we can improve upon these ideas as we go.”

 

R* listening to feedback from players is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard.

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TerryJamieKingDonovan
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, hotrats773 said:

Thats the crux of the biscuit right there.

 

This cut-rate, dime store peer to peer bullsh*t needs to f*cking stop like last week. I'm sure they know that so I don't get the head scratching on R* part AT ALL. I'm sure having a server farm dedicated to R* titles would not interfere with Straus Zelnick's yacht payment so I just don't get the refusal to address the issue from an infrastructure standpoint. At the very least, in the current age of social distancing, let us have invite-only or solo lobbies. WT actual F Rockstar?

I am not trying to defend Rockstar or Take Two on that decision, but I will try to explain it to you from a business/CTO point of view.

 

Basically the people deciding on large scale decisions like these, are CEOs/CTOs, and it is not necessarily about the money. First of all, Rockstar or Take Two building their OWN Server Farm would be absolutely over-budget(we are talking literally millions), but what they could/should do(like most other Publishers) is rent Server spaces, virtualized Servers from Google, Amazon or Microsoft.

However, the reason why they are so adamant about not doing that, would be, as I believe, that their player/server/game data, would in purely on a theoratical basis, be in the hands of Google.

With Take Two Interactive being overly sensitive about their code, their data, basically anything regarding their internal procedures, they most probably chose not to go the Server Side route because of that, despite the fact that it has probably already accumulated millions of Technical Debt on their side.

1 hour ago, ventogt said:

An excerpt from the article: "But none of this is set in stone, we’re still absorbing the feedback from players from these initial roles and we will see how we can improve upon these ideas as we go.”

 

R* listening to feedback from players is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard.

I do understand being frustrated, but as a matter of fact, Rockstar does indeed listen to player Feedback in almost all of their decisions, they have back-end infrastructures set-up to analyze player enagement in each activity and invested millions into analytics.

Almost all(if not all) of their Online game development decisions, where based on player feedback, including: Blips not being visible on the Radar all the time, Offensive/Defensive Mode(and later adjustments to it), Parley feature, More coop and solo based gameplay(pretty much all the roles do not require other players to parttake), Random Events within the Online World like in Singleplayer, many many clothing and balancing suggestions.

Also they did already mention in the latest interview with Polygon (perhaps calling it a promotion/advertisement would be more adequate) that they heard that players are asking for additional customization for the Role Specific outfits, and are looking to implement something like that in the future.

 

It is not the "listening to the community" part where Rockstar fails miserably at, it is about the execution, and their Technical practices, and well, it all, really, it all comes down to... dedicated servers.(Seriously they would fix like 90% of the Games main issues)

And that is what is so sad about this.

Edited by TerryJamieKingDonovan
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ventogt
Posted (edited)

@TerryJamieKingDonovan^^they absolutely NEED TO rent space at AWS/Google/MSFT for GTAnext, RDR remastered on PS5/Scarlett and future titles...and data sovereignty is not an issue in cloud when you consider that major multinational banks are hosting apps in all of these clouds today.  Plenty of ways to secure cloud data these days, R* has no excuse if next gen is some peer to peer BS

 

Edited by ventogt

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TerryJamieKingDonovan
1 hour ago, ventogt said:

@TerryJamieKingDonovan^^they absolutely NEED TO rent space at AWS/Google/MSFT for GTAnext, RDR remastered on PS5/Scarlett and future titles...and data sovereignty is not an issue in cloud when you consider that major multinational banks are hosting apps in all of these clouds today.  Plenty of ways to secure cloud data these days, R* has no excuse if next gen is some peer to peer BS

 

I do 100% agree.

But apparenlty Rockstar/Take Two do not see it that way (yet) perhaps.

 

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Direwrath

This right here gives me some hint of how out of touch they are with part of the community,

Quote

One of the thrilling things about Red Dead Online is seeing the silhouette of a distant player watching you from a distance as you try to turn in your pelts as a Trader. The shootouts are exciting, but somehow the threat of a potential shootout manages to be even more tense.

A majority of players I know do not find this at all thrilling in any way. I feel if we wanted a shootout we could easily initiate one with npc's, but it's not fair for one player to have a fight pushed onto them by other players. It breaks their game play and fighting other players is not the whole reason some play this online, as it is the only way to play this game coop with friends and family. They keep trying to push the whole player to player interaction thing as the most amazing concept ever created...

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darkmaster234
6 hours ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

I am not trying to defend Rockstar or Take Two on that decision, but I will try to explain it to you from a business/CTO point of view.

 

Basically the people deciding on large scale decisions like these, are CEOs/CTOs, and it is not necessarily about the money. First of all, Rockstar or Take Two building their OWN Server Farm would be absolutely over-budget(we are talking literally millions), but what they could/should do(like most other Publishers) is rent Server spaces, virtualized Servers from Google, Amazon or Microsoft.

However, the reason why they are so adamant about not doing that, would be, as I believe, that their player/server/game data, would in purely on a theoratical basis, be in the hands of Google.

With Take Two Interactive being overly sensitive about their code, their data, basically anything regarding their internal procedures, they most probably chose not to go the Server Side route because of that, despite the fact that it has probably already accumulated millions of Technical Debt on their side.

I do understand being frustrated, but as a matter of fact, Rockstar does indeed listen to player Feedback in almost all of their decisions, they have back-end infrastructures set-up to analyze player enagement in each activity and invested millions into analytics.

Almost all(if not all) of their Online game development decisions, where based on player feedback, including: Blips not being visible on the Radar all the time, Offensive/Defensive Mode(and later adjustments to it), Parley feature, More coop and solo based gameplay(pretty much all the roles do not require other players to parttake), Random Events within the Online World like in Singleplayer, many many clothing and balancing suggestions.

Also they did already mention in the latest interview with Polygon (perhaps calling it a promotion/advertisement would be more adequate) that they heard that players are asking for additional customization for the Role Specific outfits, and are looking to implement something like that in the future.

 

It is not the "listening to the community" part where Rockstar fails miserably at, it is about the execution, and their Technical practices, and well, it all, really, it all comes down to... dedicated servers.(Seriously they would fix like 90% of the Games main issues)

And that is what is so sad about this.

I just expect them to not port red dead again, such a dick move. with gta6 its more than enough. 

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TerryJamieKingDonovan
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Direwrath said:

This right here gives me some hint of how out of touch they are with part of the community,

A majority of players I know do not find this at all thrilling in any way. I feel if we wanted a shootout we could easily initiate one with npc's, but it's not fair for one player to have a fight pushed onto them by other players. It breaks their game play and fighting other players is not the whole reason some play this online, as it is the only way to play this game coop with friends and family. They keep trying to push the whole player to player interaction thing as the most amazing concept ever created...

That is not what R* said, that quote is from the author of the article, which is obviously a promotional/advertisement hence the PR Talk.

 

But I actually do agree with them, without the player interaction stuff...it is just Singleplayer, I feel like in the end some people just want to play Singleplayer with their own character instead of exploiting the unlimited potential of Online.

If done right, player to player interaction could be implemented in a meaningful way, for example by allowing Bounty Hunters to capture or kill griefers for Rewards(WITHOUT having to send out a bloody invite for it), or make out interesting meaningful objectives for players to interact with others, in a non combative way.

Such as having to trade in an item with a player from another Role or something like that.

 

Player to Player interaction, especially in a RolePlay esque manner, is the only thing that distinguishes Red Dead Online from the respective Singleplayer experience, and in my honest opinion they should focus on that.

Edited by TerryJamieKingDonovan
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Fun 2
Posted (edited)

@TerryJamieKingDonovan Red Dead Online network structure isn't pure peer-to-peer. It's hybrid peer-to-peer, a combination of peer-to-peer and client-server models. A central server is used to handle the game services such as matchmaking, presence service (it handles the communication between players, manage invites..etc) and it helps with connectivity issues between players like if two players cannot connect to each other, then both can connect to the server which would act as third party that would forward the data between them.

Rockstar use Google Analytics, which tracks all sorts of game data, which menu you've opened and which one you are currently viewing, all of this is to help them have a better understanding of which features are popular among players. They also made a deal with Akamai Technologies to rent their edge servers around the globe.

ALL Red Dead Redemption 2 user generated content such as photos, missions are hosted on Akamai servers. This isn't limited to RDR2, it also applies to PC content such as the Launcher and the data of each game you download upon purchasing it, even new title updates/DLCs are hosted there.

Rockstar must have paid a hella lot of money to secure the deal, and changing the whole network structure of your game is simply not possible, the whole game was designed to function with the way you designed your network, changing it would break apart every function that make use of your network.

Edited by Fun 2
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TerryJamieKingDonovan
3 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

@TerryJamieKingDonovan Red Dead Online network structure isn't pure peer-to-peer. It's hybrid peer-to-peer, a combination of peer-to-peer and client-server models. A central server is used to handle the game services such as matchmaking, presence service (it handles the communication between players, manage invites..etc) and it helps with connectivity issues between players like if two players cannot connect to each other, then both can connect to the server which would act as third party that would forward the data between them.

Rockstar use Google Analytics, which tracks all sorts of game data, which menu you've opened and which one you are currently viewing, all of this is to help them have a better understanding of which features are popular among players. They also made a deal with Akamai Technologies to rent their edge servers around the globe.

ALL Red Dead Redemption 2 user generated content such as photos, missions are hosted on Akamai servers. This isn't limited to RDR2, it also applies to PC content such as the Launcher and the data of each game you download upon purchasing it, even new title updates/DLCs are hosted there.

Rockstar must have paid a hella lot of money to secure the deal, and changing the whole network structure of your game is simply not possible, the whole game was designed to function with the way you designed your network, changing it would break apart every function that make use of your network.

Then Rockstar needs to shift their networking infrastructure goals around, because obviously their system is not working, least not for Red Dead Online.

No matter how much it costs, the current "Peer2Peer" client-server hybrid simply doesn't work, and whatever deal they cut with Akamai is evidently not good enough.

in my honest opinion, they need to take a huge investment, and improve their whole client-server model, preferably to use Google or Amazon servers. The fact that R* seems to have made a deal with Google Stadia, sort of gives me hope that they cut a similar deal with Google, to extend on their server infrastructure.

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Fun 2
12 minutes ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

Then Rockstar needs to shift their networking infrastructure goals around, because obviously their system is not working, least not for Red Dead Online.

No matter how much it costs, the current "Peer2Peer" client-server hybrid simply doesn't work, and whatever deal they cut with Akamai is evidently not good enough.

in my honest opinion, they need to take a huge investment, and improve their whole client-server model, preferably to use Google or Amazon servers. The fact that R* seems to have made a deal with Google Stadia, sort of gives me hope that they cut a similar deal with Google, to extend on their server infrastructure.

I can only see them doing that if their next title is guaranteed to generate millions or billions of dollars.

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TerryJamieKingDonovan
17 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

I can only see them doing that if their next title is guaranteed to generate millions or billions of dollars.

*cough* GTA VI *cough*

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Fun 2
39 minutes ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

*cough* GTA VI *cough*

I think it will use the same network structure, unless Rockstar decide to come up with entirely new engine or make major changes, they would keep using P2P structure.

Just because their system is not working doesn't give them a valid reason to get rid of the whole thing, the first step is to check if you can fix the issues with all sorts of alternative solutions which is what Rockstar is currently doing, not to mention that animal spawns were fine during the beta phase, even though the game was using the same network structure so that alone is enough to not even consider switching to dedicated servers.

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TagoKG

can we expect some good news this tuesday :/

 

at least dlc date....

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TerryJamieKingDonovan
56 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

I think it will use the same network structure, unless Rockstar decide to come up with entirely new engine or make major changes, they would keep using P2P structure.

Just because their system is not working doesn't give them a valid reason to get rid of the whole thing, the first step is to check if you can fix the issues with all sorts of alternative solutions which is what Rockstar is currently doing, not to mention that animal spawns were fine during the beta phase, even though the game was using the same network structure so that alone is enough to not even consider switching to dedicated servers.

That is not true. Neither animal nor NPC spawns were "fine" during the BETA period.

There are NPCs that outright do not spawn, such as the farmers on outside farms.


Also Pigs in valentine or Emerald Ranch, very rarely spawned, even in BETA.

It is just now getting noticed a lot more, because of the Trader role being focused on hunting.

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Fun 2
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

That is not true. Neither animal nor NPC spawns were "fine" during the BETA period.

There are NPCs that outright do not spawn, such as the farmers on outside farms.


Also Pigs in valentine or Emerald Ranch, very rarely spawned, even in BETA.

It is just now getting noticed a lot more, because of the Trader role being focused on hunting.

Animal spawns were better before the Frontier Pursuits update, you would still experience some issues but animals were spawning enough for people to make profit. The butcher was a big deal during the beta phase aka your path to becoming rich.

If it was so bad like the current state, no one would have suggested that hunting is your best way to make money during the beta phase.

Edited by Fun 2
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MSK 2019
Posted (edited)

~Edit~

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BZXC32

I hope next dlc will (beside bug fixing of course) have some legal work stuff. Like being able to buy a farm/ ranch, and catching/ tame and sell wild horses and/ or herd cows, something like bring them from Valentine to Armadillo or so.. something normal, no illegal/ criminal jobs/ work

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Direwrath
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

That is not what R* said, that quote is from the author of the article, which is obviously a promotional/advertisement hence the PR Talk.

 

But I actually do agree with them, without the player interaction stuff...it is just Singleplayer, I feel like in the end some people just want to play Singleplayer with their own character instead of exploiting the unlimited potential of Online.

If done right, player to player interaction could be implemented in a meaningful way, for example by allowing Bounty Hunters to capture or kill griefers for Rewards(WITHOUT having to send out a bloody invite for it), or make out interesting meaningful objectives for players to interact with others, in a non combative way.

Such as having to trade in an item with a player from another Role or something like that.

 

Player to Player interaction, especially in a RolePlay esque manner, is the only thing that distinguishes Red Dead Online from the respective Singleplayer experience, and in my honest opinion they should focus on that.

Oh, I thought that was their quote. It is very cheesy sounding tbh. 😆 But I have to believe that R* thinks this way because of the way they are dealing (not dealing), with the problems players are complaining about when it comes to their pvp.

 

Actually many players want to play this game with friends and not have the errant stranger there to tag them with dynamite. Problem is, you allow good interactions it will be soured by the ones who will use it simply as a means to piss other players off. Easy way to end that is to allow players like you into servers that allow pvp play, and allow players such as myself into a server without. Online doesn't have to be Call of Duty in every game, but that's the mentality that people seem to have. I agree, the company should have implemented the player interactions better but for some reason R* goes only so far without finishing with a real solution. Defensive mode is useless, nobody should have to be in any mode to tell other players simply not to shoot them dead. If someone wants to ruin your day they can do it easily and go about their business without any blow back and it should not be that way. Why should a person be limited on their experience because of another player being callous? GTA has a invite server choice, why did they not implement that for RDR2? It was going to be obvious that this was going to be a problem, GTA should have been their lesson on what to do and what not to do and yet they give us Defensive mode and try to claim that player interactions are so darn important to them. To them is the key here, obviously it is not that important to many of the players who deal with the frustration and may stop playing.

And some people can only play story so far before it becomes old, so what's wrong with wanting to play a character of your own creation in that same world to keep the interest alive? That's the novelty of online for me, playing as my own character, with my friends and family, not going all social with other people I don't know. If they offered original character creation and offline coop through other means I can assure you that I would not be online much. 😉

 

Also, harnessing the Bounty Hunters in the game is an awesome idea! I was hoping that they would do this with that role, it was why I was so eager to jump into it. But other ways of interacting would only work if things were PVE only, because many players have been tricked into a nice interaction only to be thanked by a bullet to the head. R* has many different types of players you gotta wonder what made them think that throwing them all into a game together and letting them run rampant was going to go well? R* needs to work on their PVP anti griefing methods, or give the option for PVE or invite only servers. If they were so worried about keeping players attracted to that unlimited potential of online they need to work a little more on this. I have had my friends list who play this game currently dwindle quite a lot because of griefers, me I'm bullheaded so I fight through it but I will admit how frustrating it is to deal with. Please don't take my comments as being rude, I try not to seem that way when I type but I can't. 🙂 

Edited by Direwrath
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Fun 2

It appears that Cattle Rustling was supposed to be part of the online mode, this could be featured with a future role like rancher role?

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TerryJamieKingDonovan
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Direwrath said:

Oh, I thought that was their quote. It is very cheesy sounding tbh. 😆 But I have to believe that R* thinks this way because of the way they are dealing (not dealing), with the problems players are complaining about when it comes to their pvp.

 

Actually many players want to play this game with friends and not have the errant stranger there to tag them with dynamite. Problem is, you allow good interactions it will be soured by the ones who will use it simply as a means to piss other players off. Easy way to end that is to allow players like you into servers that allow pvp play, and allow players such as myself into a server without. Online doesn't have to be Call of Duty in every game, but that's the mentality that people seem to have. I agree, the company should have implemented the player interactions better but for some reason R* goes only so far without finishing with a real solution. Defensive mode is useless, nobody should have to be in any mode to tell other players simply not to shoot them dead. If someone wants to ruin your day they can do it easily and go about their business without any blow back and it should not be that way. Why should a person be limited on their experience because of another player being callous? GTA has a invite server choice, why did they not implement that for RDR2? It was going to be obvious that this was going to be a problem, GTA should have been their lesson on what to do and what not to do and yet they give us Defensive mode and try to claim that player interactions are so darn important to them. To them is the key here, obviously it is not that important to many of the players who deal with the frustration and may stop playing.

And some people can only play story so far before it becomes old, so what's wrong with wanting to play a character of your own creation in that same world to keep the interest alive? That's the novelty of online for me, playing as my own character, with my friends and family, not going all social with other people I don't know. If they offered original character creation and offline coop through other means I can assure you that I would not be online much. 😉

 

Also, harnessing the Bounty Hunters in the game is an awesome idea! I was hoping that they would do this with that role, it was why I was so eager to jump into it. But other ways of interacting would only work if things were PVE only, because many players have been tricked into a nice interaction only to be thanked by a bullet to the head. R* has many different types of players you gotta wonder what made them think that throwing them all into a game together and letting them run rampant was going to go well? R* needs to work on their PVP anti griefing methods, or give the option for PVE or invite only servers. If they were so worried about keeping players attracted to that unlimited potential of online they need to work a little more on this. I have had my friends list who play this game currently dwindle quite a lot because of griefers, me I'm bullheaded so I fight through it but I will admit how frustrating it is to deal with. Please don't take my comments as being rude, I try not to seem that way when I type but I can't. 🙂 

I have to disagree there.

I believe you are overstating the current state of Online play with people griefing.

My experience has been mostly positive, the types of players that try to blow you up with dynamite? I rarely do encounter them, and when I do, I just parley after a single death, and go about my business.

That is the whole trick that R* is about to master, to get all these different types of players, with different playstyles into a single dynamic world, and bolster it with interactions that feel natural.

When I encounter players in Red Dead Online, sometimes it does lead to a shootout, but that shootout almost never feels like "Griefing" to me. It is just me interacting with other players in interesting ways.

 

An example to illustrate my point: Today I was riding around the praire, when I saw a smoke in the sky and heard gunshots, I rode up to them to find out if it is a random event or some sort, just to find a posse of two players, who had just cleared a gang hideout.

I arrived and they did not seem rather hostile, so I went ahead and while they were looting the bodies, took my chance and looted one myself, without asking of course. The posse leader did not took it too kindly, and started grabbing me(NOT blowing me up with dynamite mind you), and beating me to death, for looting the corpse. After respawning I went back to the location to find both players still there, I asked over voice chat if I could join their posse, the posse leader replied, "sorry we don't take any thieves here"; and both parties went about their way. 


Interactions like these, in my honest opinion shape the experience of Red Dead Online, and most of my interactions with players have been similar, though there of course have been bad experiences, such as a player making weird impressions of Donald Trump over voice chat and being kinda racist, and in those instances I reported them and switched sessions/or rode off most of the time. Maybe it is due to the fact I play on PC and in the EU Region(not to be racist here or anything, but I have heard that in US Regions in general the playerbase tends to be a lot more toxic, I have heard that on both Red Dead and GTA Online from many players, though I do not have any statistical evidence for this of course.)

 

I do believe it is possible to manage different playstyles and player behavior within a session, and I think that is the art that R* has to master, I am glad they are actually attempting it with Red Dead Online, (in GTA Online they tried at the beginning with the whole bad sports system, but didn't give a f*ck later on). Splitting the playerbase would basically take away the unpredictable factor in interactions such as the one I described above. With the addition of systems such as a lawmen system, which punished "bad behavior" players for their bad interactions, or least gives some consequence to them, it would elevate Red Dead Online to a new level.

 

Here is an excerpt from another Rockstar Interview which perfectly illustrates my point, when asked on why they do not want to implement seperate lobbies for PvE and PvP they responded:

Quote

"It would be easier for us to do that then what we're trying to do here, which is allow people to still feel like they are existing in the world that has an element of Wild Westiness to it and not completely make it two experiences," Nelson says. "If we can't get the balancing right then we can always do that, but what we're trying to do is allow people to, however they want to play the game, interact with the world and still feel like they're all part of the same world together. Where we think it works best and when it's the most fun is if you are actually able to roleplay in this world to a certain degree."

What I personally hope, is that Nelson and the Rockstar North team, really take this idea to its maxime, and flesh out player interaction in Red Dead Online as much as possible, because it would be something very innovative, that most other games either have not attempted to accomplish or have failed to accomplish, the only game that I played where I saw it working was ArmA 3, as part of "Life RPG" servers, and it only worked in a seperated community with each server having its own ruleset.

My dream for Red Dead Online would be for Rockstar to apply new structure and schemes with player to player regulation, a hard task, something that has never been attempted before on such a scale, but I hope Rockstar takes the risk with it, because it has the potential of making Red Dead Online to something truly special. lawmen fighting griefers, traders competing and cooperating, collectors working together for a set, all guided by an internal rule set, created by Rockstar.

Edited by TerryJamieKingDonovan

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Direwrath
3 hours ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

I have to disagree there.

I believe you are overstating the current state of Online play with people griefing.

My experience has been mostly positive, the types of players that try to blow you up with dynamite? I rarely do encounter them, and when I do, I just parley after a single death, and go about my business.

That is the whole trick that R* is about to master, to get all these different types of players, with different playstyles into a single dynamic world, and bolster it with interactions that feel natural.

When I encounter players in Red Dead Online, sometimes it does lead to a shootout, but that shootout almost never feels like "Griefing" to me. It is just me interacting with other players in interesting ways.

 

An example to illustrate my point: Today I was riding around the praire, when I saw a smoke in the sky and heard gunshots, I rode up to them to find out if it is a random event or some sort, just to find a posse of two players, who had just cleared a gang hideout.

I arrived and they did not seem rather hostile, so I went ahead and while they were looting the bodies, took my chance and looted one myself, without asking of course. The posse leader did not took it too kindly, and started grabbing me(NOT blowing me up with dynamite mind you), and beating me to death, for looting the corpse. After respawning I went back to the location to find both players still there, I asked over voice chat if I could join their posse, the posse leader replied, "sorry we don't take any thieves here"; and both parties went about their way. 


Interactions like these, in my honest opinion shape the experience of Red Dead Online, and most of my interactions with players have been similar, though there of course have been bad experiences, such as a player making weird impressions of Donald Trump over voice chat and being kinda racist, and in those instances I reported them and switched sessions/or rode off most of the time. Maybe it is due to the fact I play on PC and in the EU Region(not to be racist here or anything, but I have heard that in US Regions in general the playerbase tends to be a lot more toxic, I have heard that on both Red Dead and GTA Online from many players, though I do not have any statistical evidence for this of course.)

 

And this is where your way of playing this game differs from others and from myself. Just because you feel that these interactions are cool, and you do not mind being pulled away from your "roleplay" experience by an itchy trigger does not mean that other players feel the same way. Most of the problem is that we have no idea if the interaction is merely a "bandit" player just roleplaying a thief on the road or someone who just really wants to be mean until it's too late.  I have had that same experience with stolen loot, but it was a posse of 6 high level players who just came in and looted my revenue agents from my mission. Those npc's are not easy to kill and they do carry collector items, but this posse came in shot me dead and looted my kills as I spawned back in. Yeah I was upset, now if they had helped me to kill the agents I would have felt it was only fair for them to have some gifts for their work. But they rode up as I killed the last guy and shot me dead, how is that "fun"? Don't get me wrong, I have had numerous good interactions with other players, I've opened up my posse to allow lower levels to come in so they could play the moonshine missions and the other roles. I've even had a bit of fun being the target of a posse known fondly as the Lasso Gang 😁. I don't mind other players, but I will be honest, most of the time I just want to take my outlaw out and not have to deal with anyone else or the chance that they may possibly be just looking to be a movie cowboy. This is why most players have learned to give one another a wide berth when it comes to interactions, the good ones tend to run away from one another because of the negatives that can come from the wrong type of players. That is not a good way to try and push this "everybody is going to be just so awesome together in this pretty world" concept that R* is adamant to give us. Also you are right about the player base here in the States, it can get pretty toxic and I never use the base chat because of it. Honestly, sometimes it sucks being a female playing these games because of it as there can be some pretty crude players out there.

 

3 hours ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

I do believe it is possible to manage different playstyles and player behavior within a session, and I think that is the art that R* has to master, I am glad they are actually attempting it with Red Dead Online, (in GTA Online they tried at the beginning with the whole bad sports system, but didn't give a f*ck later on). Splitting the playerbase would basically take away the unpredictable factor in interactions such as the one I described above. With the addition of systems such as a lawmen system, which punished "bad behavior" players for their bad interactions, or least gives some consequence to them, it would elevate Red Dead Online to a new level.

 

Here is an excerpt from another Rockstar Interview which perfectly illustrates my point, when asked on why they do not want to implement seperate lobbies for PvE and PvP they responded:

What I personally hope, is that Nelson and the Rockstar North team, really take this idea to its maxime, and flesh out player interaction in Red Dead Online as much as possible, because it would be something very innovative, that most other games either have not attempted to accomplish or have failed to accomplish, the only game that I played where I saw it working was ArmA 3, as part of "Life RPG" servers, and it only worked in a seperated community with each server having its own ruleset.

My dream for Red Dead Online would be for Rockstar to apply new structure and schemes with player to player regulation, a hard task, something that has never been attempted before on such a scale, but I hope Rockstar takes the risk with it, because it has the potential of making Red Dead Online to something truly special. lawmen fighting griefers, traders competing and cooperating, collectors working together for a set, all guided by an internal rule set, created by Rockstar.

This is something I can partially agree with. I still do not feel that griefing is something to be happy with, but if a person who is taking part in those kinds of actions could actually be punished it would change my mind about this. Like maybe groups that high lvl bounty hunters could join that would be the "law" in a way who would be used to take down a real griefer or posse of griefers. I know they would really need to find a clear cut way to do this because it would be hard to distinguish the "bandit" players and the true griefing players. But if each town had a group that had rule over the area around it, it just might make those bad players think twice about just trying to ruin it for other players.

 

It just doesn't make sense that a game has to have "playground" monitors to keep the peace though, seems a silly concept to me when all they have to do is allow private or PVE type options. 

 

 

 

 

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FuturePastNow
13 hours ago, Fun 2 said:

It appears that Cattle Rustling was supposed to be part of the online mode, this could be featured with a future role like rancher role?

I predicted they'd make horse import/export (horse thief role) someday, cattle rustler is the same idea. That might be interesting.

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