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Red Dead Online Next Updates Speculation Thread

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kcole4001

Yes, that would likely be a better solution, PvP can still be entered via the freeroam events and modes in the menus, or by switching to the PvP sessions, and the rest of the players can go about their business as usual.

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Leftover Pizza
12 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

Yes, that would likely be a better solution, PvP can still be entered via the freeroam events and modes in the menus, or by switching to the PvP sessions, and the rest of the players can go about their business as usual.

 

It worked for many many years in MMORPG games, where servers are much more crowded than the lobbies in GTAO or RDO. People could play in peace, with friends, guilds, random server commons, or solo. No need to keep the finger on the trigger when another player gets within shooting range, just do your things in peace. 

Play in groups to boost new character's level, gearing, professions, achievement rewards and stuff like that. Guild Wars proves it doesn't even need a paid sub to play on dedicated servers. If Arenanet can do it, Rockstar can too.

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Lonely-Martin
1 hour ago, kcole4001 said:

I think really that they need to add a mission/series of missions where it's part of the deal that other players will try to stop you, bank robberies or cattle/horse rustlers vs a posse of lawmen and deputies.

Make these players all in offensive mode, and make it so that players in defensive are prohibited from participating, as the system is set up now for certain missions.

That way those that want to fight, get to, and those that don't, aren't dragged into it.

I do agree, although as @Leftover Pizza said, PvE and PvP lobbies would help and would save R* time and money to create more missions like that too.

 

Although GTA has adversarial missions (like Parking Garage, I forgot what they're properly called though), and they were removed from dailies through how little they were played so I'm not sure if R* will go back to those types of missions as a seperate thing. But definitely something to draw the PvP guys in to other things isn't a bad thing, lol. I'm never against PvP, just hate how it impacts my PvE is all. :)

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MSK_MKIII
3 hours ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

R* needs to remove the proximity system, so that players can attack you.  Thats reason GTAO was actually fun...

 

It is the only thing that keeps me playing rdr online at the moment. So nooooooooo!!!

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CosmicBuffalo
4 hours ago, hotrats773 said:

I'm thinking you're in the minority with this mind-set. Sure there's an adrenaline rush in competing but a majority of players here prefer the other aspects of RDO (riding the range with friends, hunting, fishing, collecting, general chilling). There are plenty of other activities to quench that competition thirst so I'm somewhat baffled by the need to f*ck with other people who are trying to mind their own business. I do applaud R* and their implementation of the CURRENT blip system. It works much better than I thought it would and prevents gamers of your ilk from exacting carnage for "kicks".

Don't take that as a personal attack. I'm a day one GTAO player myself and get that exacting carnage is part of the deal over there. I do think RDO has a different mindset though. 

I usually am in the minority on these issues here on the forums and have been in minority on many issues regarding GTA and RD and I fully accept that, but I am in right and in the majority (just look at which thread has the most pages) that the game cannot continue in this state.  If we cannot have animals, my vote would be to allow more player interactions and in order to do this, the proximity system would either need to revamped so heavily that if you are in the same state you can see other players, or be removed entirely which is what I would prefer.  This issue is not resolved by private lobbies. 

 

First, private lobbies if implemented will be limited, if you think collectibles and sales will be part of them, well those two things are unlikely to be included in solo private lobbies based on GTAO private lobby system. Second, most people playing online do not want to play solo.  They want their progress to be uninterrupted or not to be harassed.  I do want to interact with players mildly and be quite friendly, but the the risk of meeting weirdos and ease of access to random people online provides its hard to make any lasting connections.  The fact that the average gamer bounces between games and live in different time zones is the cherry on top.  I actually prefer that I get targeted by people..I like to fight back and see if I can beat them, if I lose, its just a game.  Most people run after a few cheap kills anyway.  I am not above a good online chat or encounter either.  Third, solo lobbies do not solve the problem of animals spawns in normal public lobbies.  By creating a solo lobby just so I can hunt, I need to load in then hunt, then most likely switch to sale or deposit my wagon at cripps because who knows if crips will be part of these lobbies, but even if he is, I will most likely need to change lobbies to make a sale, and thats annoying having to change.  This is already available via legendary bounties, but those lobbies are highly limited probably more than if R* implement private lobbies, but still a good comparison to how few limits, no fast travel/no cripps, will be annoying.  If I want to interact with other players, I cannot hunt.  So, private lobbies do not solve the underlying issues of no animals spawns.  

 

 

And just so we are clear, I have played hundreds of FR events, showdowns, gun rush, and all modes.  My stats say I have completed 1106 series missions...not sure exactly what those include.  I have completed all the buckles in the competitive buckle list except for two, Posse Feuds..which I have completed 0 because who actually does these?  I think I have been offered it once. And Stop a Rival from completing a Stranger Mission...I have 36 of those.  The majority were player assassinations where I just ran or killed the player until they left.  Showdowns are limited PVP.  You end up on the same teams with someone you want to fight from the previous match,  Free Mode battles show you exactly who you want to go after and is the biggest difference and main reason..."the just go to showdowns" line is foolish and shows no actual understanding of the game at its best.  Showdowns have stupid rules, time limits, hardly any have horses, your weapons are limited, at the end of the match, refills of ammo can be purchased and health tonics can be purchased.  Gun Rush is actually fun (ruined by card changes) and I played it alot, but its nothing compared to free mode battle.  Everything goes, your knowledge of the game comes into play...not whether you spent the vast majority of your childhood playing fps pvp.   I am fine at these, but they do not appeal to me in the way a good freemode fight does.

 

Edited by CosmicBuffalo

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Direwrath
3 hours ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

I usually am in the minority on these issues here on the forums and have been in minority on many issues regarding GTA and RD and I fully accept that, but I am in right and in the majority (just look at which thread has the most pages) that the game cannot continue in this state.  If we cannot have animals, my vote would be to allow more player interactions and in order to do this, the proximity system would either need to revamped so heavily that if you are in the same state you can see other players, or be removed entirely which is what I would prefer.  This issue is not resolved by private lobbies. 

 

First, private lobbies if implemented will be limited, if you think collectibles and sales will be part of them, well those two things are unlikely to be included in solo private lobbies based on GTAO private lobby system. Second, most people playing online do not want to play solo.  They want their progress to be uninterrupted or not to be harassed.  I do want to interact with players mildly and be quite friendly, but the the risk of meeting weirdos and ease of access to random people online provides its hard to make any lasting connections.  The fact that the average gamer bounces between games and live in different time zones is the cherry on top.  I actually prefer that I get targeted by people..I like to fight back and see if I can beat them, if I lose, its just a game.  Most people run after a few cheap kills anyway.  I am not above a good online chat or encounter either.  Third, solo lobbies do not solve the problem of animals spawns in normal public lobbies.  By creating a solo lobby just so I can hunt, I need to load in then hunt, then most likely switch to sale or deposit my wagon at cripps because who knows if crips will be part of these lobbies, but even if he is, I will most likely need to change lobbies to make a sale, and thats annoying having to change.  This is already available via legendary bounties, but those lobbies are highly limited probably more than if R* implement private lobbies, but still a good comparison to how few limits, no fast travel/no cripps, will be annoying.  If I want to interact with other players, I cannot hunt.  So, private lobbies do not solve the underlying issues of no animals spawns.  

 

 

And just so we are clear, I have played hundreds of FR events, showdowns, gun rush, and all modes.  My stats say I have completed 1106 series missions...not sure exactly what those include.  I have completed all the buckles in the competitive buckle list except for two, Posse Feuds..which I have completed 0 because who actually does these?  I think I have been offered it once. And Stop a Rival from completing a Stranger Mission...I have 36 of those.  The majority were player assassinations where I just ran or killed the player until they left.  Showdowns are limited PVP.  You end up on the same teams with someone you want to fight from the previous match,  Free Mode battles show you exactly who you want to go after and is the biggest difference and main reason..."the just go to showdowns" line is foolish and shows no actual understanding of the game at its best.  Showdowns have stupid rules, time limits, hardly any have horses, your weapons are limited, at the end of the match, refills of ammo can be purchased and health tonics can be purchased.  Gun Rush is actually fun (ruined by card changes) and I played it alot, but its nothing compared to free mode battle.  Everything goes, your knowledge of the game comes into play...not whether you spent the vast majority of your childhood playing fps pvp.   I am fine at these, but they do not appeal to me in the way a good freemode fight does.

 

I just enjoy playing the game with my family and friends, and it is neat connecting with other players in a more realistic, not so trigger happy way. So I do get a little frustrated when other players have to play cowboy with me.  Some people want a more realistic western game play. Others want to play the game like they are an extra in the movie Young Guns, but no player should be forced to play the game based on the whims of another player. And it's only the trigger happy players who would force the other players into that, which is not right.  Best thing is to call out for a gunfight by messaging all other players, set a location, and have at it. The ones wanting to fight in free roam will show up, and they can leave everyone else alone. The only downside would be that those players showing up are itching for the fight, not so easy to ambush like the unsuspecting player. But from my experience, most players either ride away from me as quick as they can, fire warning shots if we have no choice but to approach one another on the road, or they greet me and we both go about our business. It's mostly peaceful, seems like most players just want to be left alone. 

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CosmicBuffalo
9 minutes ago, Direwrath said:

I just enjoy playing the game with my family and friends, and it is neat connecting with other players in a more realistic, not so trigger happy way. So I do get a little frustrated when other players have to play cowboy with me.  Some people want a more realistic western game play. Others want to play the game like they are an extra in the movie Young Guns, but no player should be forced to play the game based on the whims of another player. And it's only the trigger happy players who would force the other players into that, which is not right.  Best thing is to call out for a gunfight by messaging all other players, set a location, and have at it. The ones wanting to fight in free roam will show up, and they can leave everyone else alone. The only downside would be that those players showing up are itching for the fight, not so easy to ambush like the unsuspecting player. But from my experience, most players either ride away from me as quick as they can, fire warning shots if we have no choice but to approach one another on the road, or they greet me and we both go about our business. It's mostly peaceful, seems like most players just want to be left alone. 

There are already a couple of available remedies such as parlay and defensive.  Its just that the current setup is boring with no animals.  If I am going to be forced into a game with other players, might as well let them know where I am and vice a versas.  The experiment to achieve a balanced world of unforced pvp yet semi forced interaction which allows pvp has failed miserably.  I am ready for it to be over.  I think its coming next update.

Edited by CosmicBuffalo

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Direwrath
6 minutes ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

There are already a couple of available remedies such as parlay and defensive.  Its just that the current setup is boring with no animals.  If I am going to be forced into a game with other players, might as well let them know where I am and vice a versas.  in my opinion the experiment to achieve a balanced world of unforced pvp yet semi forced interaction and I am ready for it to be over.  I think its coming next update.

In order for Parlay to be effective the player has already been attacked, which is what they want to avoid. And defensive is only going to work for the players who respect the reason behind having it and won't mess with you. I'll be honest and say that more people attack me in defensive mode, maybe when I'm in offensive it tells them I am ready for a fight and they don't want that. Neither one of those actively stop another player from interfering with you, and that is the problem. I play online not to play with strangers, but it is the only option I have to play with my family, which leaves me with this. Don't get me wrong, I will play offensive when I feel a bit of an itch and want to feel the stress that I may be attacked, and boy do I love being targeted for assassination missions. But if I ain't looking for a fight with another player, why should I be forced into one? I understand the lack of fun in the showdowns, they are pretty predictable, but there has to be a better way of giving both styles of players what they want without ruining the fun of the game. 

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ghostsoap01
4 hours ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

shows no actual understanding of the game at its best.

 

Who is to say that PvP is the game at its best? Perhaps to you, it may be the highlight of this game; but for myself  (and a large portion of other players, hence why the blip change was implemented) the game is at its best in other situations. I do not view this game as being about PvP at all in fact. I see the highlight of it as the world itself, and how deeply you can be connected to it. The depth of living in the world: the need to eat, the ability to dress for warmth, pick plants, the depth of hunting and the amount of different animals (when they spawn that is, fix it R*). These things make up a rich world you can live in, it goes far beyond a simple combat focused game. I log in, stop at saloons, go fishing, cook food, pet my dog, brush my horse. All those things make my experience unlike anything else. That immersion is my idea of this game at its best, and that immersion is destroyed when another player runs up and blasts me to smithereens while I was engaging in the world. One second I am fully wrapped up into the world around me, the next I am fending off a crazed psycho (from an in-game perspective that's pretty much what it feels like, not saying the person behind the screen is actually a psycho).

 

The blip change more or less fixed that (of course private lobbies would be even better for immersing oneself into the world).

 

TL;DR: "PvP is RDO at its best" is subjective, a big portion of players disagree strongly, hence why the blip change happened.

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CosmicBuffalo
26 minutes ago, ghostsoap01 said:

 

Who is to say that PvP is the game at its best? Perhaps to you, it may be the highlight of this game; but for myself  (and a large portion of other players, hence why the blip change was implemented) the game is at its best in other situations. I do not view this game as being about PvP at all in fact. I see the highlight of it as the world itself, and how deeply you can be connected to it. The depth of living in the world: the need to eat, the ability to dress for warmth, pick plants, the depth of hunting and the amount of different animals (when they spawn that is, fix it R*). These things make up a rich world you can live in, it goes far beyond a simple combat focused game. I log in, stop at saloons, go fishing, cook food, pet my dog, brush my horse. All those things make my experience unlike anything else. That immersion is my idea of this game at its best, and that immersion is destroyed when another player runs up and blasts me to smithereens while I was engaging in the world. One second I am fully wrapped up into the world around me, the next I am fending off a crazed psycho (from an in-game perspective that's pretty much what it feels like, not saying the person behind the screen is actually a psycho).

 

The blip change more or less fixed that (of course private lobbies would be even better for immersing oneself into the world).

 

TL;DR: "PvP is RDO at its best" is subjective, a big portion of players disagree strongly, hence why the blip change happened.

Yeah, its subjective...but so is "go to showdowns if you want to pvp."   Anyone who has parroted this line has no idea what they are talking about.  Showdowns were great ways to rank up early on, but now everytime I quick join one for a daily the lobbies are slap full of people.  And I think I cannot believe people even play these trash modes, but they do....I often see the same high rank gamertags despite playing them only for daily challenges.  I bet if R* allowed lobby/match choice like in GTAO  90% of matchs would be dead aside from a select view versions.

 

Also, I mean that PVP in RDO is at it best is in Free Mode.  Obviously the best part of RDO is not PVP.  Both are subjective.  But really I havent seen anyone actually arguing PVP is RDO strong suit.  Its just pretty boring with no animals and no players for miles.

Edited by CosmicBuffalo

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ghostsoap01
4 minutes ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

Yeah, its subjective...but so is "go to showdowns if you want to pvp."  Anyone who has parroted this line has no idea what they are talking about.  Showdowns were great ways to rank up early on, but now everytime I quick join one for a daily the lobbies are slap full of people.  And I think I cannot believe people even play these trash modes, but they do....I often see the same high rank gamertags despite playing them only for daily challenges.  I bet if R* allowed lobby/match choice like in GTAO  90% of matchs would be dead aside from a select view versions.

 

I think what others have said above would make both of our perspectives happy: Give us PvE and PvP lobbies (invite only would be ideal for me, but PvE is an acceptable alternative). This way anyone in the PvP lobby is opting into it, and nobody will be disrupted by unwanted PvP in the PvE section.

 

And yes, PvE / Invite only sessions would have sales and businesses in them. We can do them in defensive right now, which signals that R* have no problems with us being able to do these things safe from player interference.

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ventogt
1 hour ago, ghostsoap01 said:

 

I think what others have said above would make both of our perspectives happy: Give us PvE and PvP lobbies (invite only would be ideal for me, but PvE is an acceptable alternative). This way anyone in the PvP lobby is opting into it, and nobody will be disrupted by unwanted PvP in the PvE section.

 

And yes, PvE / Invite only sessions would have sales and businesses in them. We can do them in defensive right now, which signals that R* have no problems with us being able to do these things safe from player interference.

Dillholes can still easily kill you and ruin/destroy your shipments in Defensive.  Ask me how I know

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Fun 2
On 1/24/2020 at 8:39 PM, CosmicBuffalo said:

I usually am in the minority on these issues here on the forums and have been in minority on many issues regarding GTA and RD and I fully accept that, but I am in right and in the majority (just look at which thread has the most pages) that the game cannot continue in this state.  If we cannot have animals, my vote would be to allow more player interactions and in order to do this, the proximity system would either need to revamped so heavily that if you are in the same state you can see other players, or be removed entirely which is what I would prefer.  This issue is not resolved by private lobbies. 

 

First, private lobbies if implemented will be limited, if you think collectibles and sales will be part of them, well those two things are unlikely to be included in solo private lobbies based on GTAO private lobby system. Second, most people playing online do not want to play solo.  They want their progress to be uninterrupted or not to be harassed.  I do want to interact with players mildly and be quite friendly, but the the risk of meeting weirdos and ease of access to random people online provides its hard to make any lasting connections.  The fact that the average gamer bounces between games and live in different time zones is the cherry on top.  I actually prefer that I get targeted by people..I like to fight back and see if I can beat them, if I lose, its just a game.  Most people run after a few cheap kills anyway.  I am not above a good online chat or encounter either.  Third, solo lobbies do not solve the problem of animals spawns in normal public lobbies.  By creating a solo lobby just so I can hunt, I need to load in then hunt, then most likely switch to sale or deposit my wagon at cripps because who knows if crips will be part of these lobbies, but even if he is, I will most likely need to change lobbies to make a sale, and thats annoying having to change.  This is already available via legendary bounties, but those lobbies are highly limited probably more than if R* implement private lobbies, but still a good comparison to how few limits, no fast travel/no cripps, will be annoying.  If I want to interact with other players, I cannot hunt.  So, private lobbies do not solve the underlying issues of no animals spawns.  

Animals are a big part of the game, Rockstar will definitely fix them, actually they have to fix them, it's not a simple matter of leaving them behind.

Player interaction is much more than "kill me, I kill you", but your imagination is just limited by your PvP mindset.

Also you said the game will be annoying if you have to switch lobbies from time to time, but what you are asking for is exactly the same.

The reason why Rockstar even came up with the proximity system is to prevent griefers from chasing you all over the map, some griefers won't just stop after a few kills. If you lose, you basically become an easy prey for a griefer who will take the advantage to raise his K/D ratio. Eventually you will be forced to switch lobbies, which would be very annoying for you.

Edited by Fun 2
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ventogt

^^This.  The proximity system, fast travel posts conveniently located, Defensive mode plus a 10 minute Parley is more than enough to combat griefing in the game.  A few asshats are still out there cowboying and being jerkoffs but for the most part the game is way more cooperative and friendly than I expected it to be.

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Jason

The solution to fixing PvE content isn't to force more PvP content onto players lol.

 

They absolutely should add content that encourages player to player interactions though, the game does have some content that would benefit from it but like GTAO it plays like a game you go into with a pre-made group or you're playing solo for the most part. Boggles my mind how things like bounty hunting doesn't have matchmaking or the ability to hold up in a Sheriff's office and set your self to looking for players so you can group up with like minded people, same for Trader, Moonshiner, etc. At camp you should be able to send a ping to players looking for work to bring them in to help with the deliveries and things like that.

 

Even further, imagine they add say open world robberies, trains, houses, whatever. You're at a location about to rob the place and a guy turns up, what then? You rush to the content first so he can't do it? The game phases you into a private instance? The content is so mind numbingly simple that it doesn't matter that a guy turns up blowing the place to hell? Why not a dynamic group up feature, hold left trigger to target a player, invite to posse, or make it smart and ask if wants to group up to do nearby content or something.

 

This is one of many problems I have with a lot of these online service games, they're all heavily inspired by MMORPG's but they always pull the wrong things from them. One of the the main things that make MMORPG's special are the social features, any MMO vet can tell you of friends they met and spend months/years playing with and all that, but nowadays devs just assume everyone has pre-made groups and their online worlds end up being a bunch of people running around ignoring each other. Might as well make a single player game at that point which now I think of it might be one of the reasons why I strongly prefer single player games these days after over a decade of preferring online games lmao.

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ventogt
11 minutes ago, Jason said:

The solution to fixing PvE content isn't to force more PvP content onto players lol.

 

They absolutely should add content that encourages player to player interactions though, the game does have some content that would benefit from it but like GTAO it plays like a game you go into with a pre-made group or you're playing solo for the most part. Boggles my mind how things like bounty hunting doesn't have matchmaking or the ability to hold up in a Sheriff's office and set your self to looking for players so you can group up with like minded people, same for Trader, Moonshiner, etc. At camp you should be able to send a ping to players looking for work to bring them in to help with the deliveries and things like that.

Hear, hear.  Would be fun if different roles had different tables at saloons you could go to for some drinks and to enlist help for jobs with like minded crew.  Would immerse the players more and encourage more interaction as well.  The way temporary posses work is just like randos in a heist in GTAO, as you really don't know what you're going to get.

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Leftover Pizza
2 hours ago, Jason said:

any MMO vet can tell you of friends they met and spend months/years playing with and all that, but nowadays devs just assume everyone has pre-made groups and their online worlds end up being a bunch of people running around ignoring each other. Might as well make a single player game at that point which now I think of it might be one of the reasons why I strongly prefer single player games these days after over a decade of preferring online games lmao.

 

I prefer single player games nowadays, mostly because of time. I just can't dedicate hours of time doing raids in schedules and such. I do have that story about meeting friends in a MMORPG too. In the first week of Vanilla WoW, I met another player, who turned out to be a 13 year young girl at that time, playing a Warrior. That is now 15 years ago and she's still a very good family friend. Her kids and my grandchildren are in the same school and we still meet regularly. Both stopped playing WoW, or any other MMORPG due to the same reasons, but never lost contact. 

I don't see that happen with players I come across in RDO :D  

This game, and a good number of other modern Online games, lack a real community within the game itself. 

 

Edited by Leftover Pizza
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Jason
53 minutes ago, Leftover Pizza said:

This game, and a good number of other modern Online games, lack a real community within the game itself. 

Yea it sucks man. Consoles moved to party chat which was a great addition but came at the cost of voice chat being active on console. PC though, yikes. Community features that were standard on PC got gutted from online games such as player/community hosted dedicated servers that could build and foster communities, even MMORPG's went towards global matchmaking pools (which has it's ups and downs) as well as enabling solo players more and more despite it being a massively multiplayer game, discouraging the need for player to player interaction. In RDO PC's case, Rockstar even disabled text chat for no reason. There's also things like in-game trade which has been gutted from a lot of online games out of the fear of real world trading, which is a great example of how modern developers keep hurting 99% of their playerbase to stop 1% or less from doing something, but that's another discussion entirely.

 

I don't think we'll ever get a big budget game which an MMORPG has to be that delivers the social experience we got in those MMORPG's ever again sadly. I think there's a possibility that VR might lean into that type of stuff as it lends its self well to social experiences but that's ages away still.

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Direwrath
3 hours ago, ventogt said:

Hear, hear.  Would be fun if different roles had different tables at saloons you could go to for some drinks and to enlist help for jobs with like minded crew.  Would immerse the players more and encourage more interaction as well.  The way temporary posses work is just like randos in a heist in GTAO, as you really don't know what you're going to get.

I'm so wary of joining posse invites, it would be nice if something like this was implemented. This would be great invitations for player jailbreaks! Wouldn't it be fun to try and break your friend or a fellow player out of jail like the gang will do for Arthur or Abigail does for John when they get out of sorts. Now the one thing they added for milder player interactions are those Moonshine Shack invites, which is a cool idea but I have never accepted one nor have I sent any invites because I'm just a wee bit timid. 

Edited by Direwrath
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Leftover Pizza
1 hour ago, Jason said:

I don't think we'll ever get a big budget game which an MMORPG has to be that delivers the social experience we got in those MMORPG's ever again sadly. I think there's a possibility that VR might lean into that type of stuff as it lends its self well to social experiences but that's ages away still.


I’ve had the best MMORPG experience with WoW, playing with loads of characters with different classes and professions and different guilds too, but mainly on 1 server. Dedicated raid guilds was a ton of fun to play in. We’ll never see stuff like that happening in Rockstar games.
25 man raids, or the classic 40. We used TeamSpeak while raiding. Good times. Even grinding mats and set items/rare mounts/rare weapons was great fun and very rewarding. Nothing in RDO feels really rewarding. 
 

I still have contacts who play WoW, and although the community in that game changed, it’s still solid in highend raid guilds. 
Rockstar could learn a lot from other developers and make their games much better. 

Edited by Leftover Pizza

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CosmicBuffalo
17 hours ago, Fun 2 said:

Animals are a big part of the game, Rockstar will definitely fix them, actually they have to fix them, it's not a simple matter of leaving them behind.

Player interaction is much more than "kill me, I kill you", but your imagination is just limited by your PvP mindset.

Also you said the game will be annoying if you have to switch lobbies from time to time, but what you are asking for is exactly the same.

The reason why Rockstar even came up with the proximity system is to prevent griefers from chasing you all over the map, some griefers won't just stop after a few kills. If you lose, you basically become an easy prey for a griefer who will take the advantage to raise his K/D ratio. Eventually you will be forced to switch lobbies, which would be very annoying for you.

Yeah, can they fix the animals and keep all the players together is the question.  It definitely seems like its not such an easy fix as the game is clearly suffering from this issue.  I would prefer to not have the proximity system, but R* plan (forced public lobbies with all activities working but proximity visibility) is probably better for most players and I can accept that. Player interaction does not always have to be PvP...in fact some relationships start in this way, competitive and then friendly.  I actually enjoy the emote system when I need to get close to player.  I just tip my hat and keep it moving.  I am not above a good encounter in game, I use the posse up feature all the time.  I still am cautious with people online. 

 

But seriously, I am not afraid to stand my ground. I would never change lobbies to avoid one griefer. I am glad to be KD fodder, these fights may may start annoyingly or frustrating but they often evolve to a cat and mouse type game.   There are no jets or overpowered weapons for one person to get instant kills like GTAO.  Bottom line, I have done everything this game has to offer and a good pvp fr battle is by far for me the most engaging activity.  Is it RDO at its best, no that's probably a posse going here and there getting bounties, and just doing activities together.  FR PvP battles are currently limited and rarely happens which is fine as long as there are deer, squirrels, birds, bears, cougars...to go after.

 

Now teams of griefers are a bit different, thats were defensive comes into play...and its just as fun because most of griefers have no idea what to do when you switch and start killing them because hardly anyone fights back.  Obviously roving bands of dynamite arrows in the heart lands near the rhodes fence would be an unwise fight for a solo even with defensive, but even that is be fun for a while, and I would still not quit, hide behind hills wait for the aggro members and auto shotgun their horse while the tryhard snipers are standing back.  Interesting gameplay, much more than the fetch quests anyway, I enjoy the Pve, but after a while a real challenge is better.

 

The absolute worst thing is getting attacked on a delivery...and then you dc and the player is listed as offline.  I would rather lose 5 full wagons than get dc after an attack that I cannot at least attempt revenge. 

Edited by CosmicBuffalo
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kcole4001
On 1/24/2020 at 6:13 PM, ghostsoap01 said:

 

I think what others have said above would make both of our perspectives happy: Give us PvE and PvP lobbies (invite only would be ideal for me, but PvE is an acceptable alternative). This way anyone in the PvP lobby is opting into it, and nobody will be disrupted by unwanted PvP in the PvE section.

 

And yes, PvE / Invite only sessions would have sales and businesses in them. We can do them in defensive right now, which signals that R* have no problems with us being able to do these things safe from player interference.

Agreed, and we already have the safe sale for the trader business: the close sale, so there is absolutely no argument to limit sales/businesses to open sessions.

I've only ever done one distant sale, solely done for a daily, I had no problem that one time, but the extra potential money isn't worth tempting someone to ruin it.

 

The fact is that all players are not FPS players, and RDO is appealing to many types of player, for many varied reasons.

Excluding them by forcing unwanted gameplay styles is not a good idea from a business standpoint, and apparently R*/T2 has agreed with that.

Edited by kcole4001
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CosmicBuffalo
32 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

Agreed, and we already have the safe sale for the trader business: the close sale, so there is absolutely no argument to limit sales/businesses to open sessions.

I've only ever done one distant sale, solely done for a daily, I had no problem that one time, but the extra potential money isn't worth tempting someone to ruin it.

 

The fact is that all players are not FPS players, and RDO is appealing to many types of player, for many varied reasons.

Excluding them by forcing unwanted gameplay styles is not a good idea from a business standpoint, and apparently R*/T2 has agreed with that.

I forgot about close sales...I operate under the same theory as you in reverse.  Cannot understand why anyone would do essentially the same thing for less.  Not really relevant, but is the wagon still vulnerable to other players or does it just not show you on the map as a target?  Meaning if some person happens upon you, can they destroy your wagon?  

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Sundevil
12 hours ago, Direwrath said:

I'm so wary of joining posse invites, it would be nice if something like this was implemented. This would be great invitations for player jailbreaks! Wouldn't it be fun to try and break your friend or a fellow player out of jail like the gang will do for Arthur or Abigail does for John when they get out of sorts. Now the one thing they added for milder player interactions are those Moonshine Shack invites, which is a cool idea but I have never accepted one nor have I sent any invites because I'm just a wee bit timid. 

You should definitely take the plunge and try the moonshine shack interactions. They are some of the most fun I’ve had in the game in months. Just silly fun, like actually laughing out loud fun. 

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kcole4001
5 hours ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

I forgot about close sales...I operate under the same theory as you in reverse.  Cannot understand why anyone would do essentially the same thing for less.  Not really relevant, but is the wagon still vulnerable to other players or does it just not show you on the map as a target?  Meaning if some person happens upon you, can they destroy your wagon?  

I think you're ghosted to other players, I've seen them go by on occasion, so I assume that's what's happening, so I'm sure it's as advertised and no one can ruin your sale but your own bad driving. ūüôā

 

The difference in payouts is only $125 for full sale, sure that's significant earlier on, but as a late entering PC player, I've done my research, I've read the day one player's complaints, watched the youtube videos and streams, and the difference in income really only means you reach the point of not being able to spend it sooner.

 

So far my maximum has been $34,000 which I hit last night before buying another gun and making a bandit outfit, now I'm almost to $33,000 again, camp's full ready to sell, I have numerous full collections and the rest are short 1 piece, and the individual items are in multiples, I usually sell them down to 5 to pay for M. Nazar's maps which are needed often for dailies.

I started Nov. 5 upon PC launch, and hit the dailies as much as possible.

 

Gold is the real challenge, I'll gladly spend money to make a little gold, it takes a lot longer to build up.

I'm up to 341 right now.

Edited by kcole4001
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Fun 2
7 hours ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

Yeah, can they fix the animals and keep all the players together is the question.  It definitely seems like its not such an easy fix as the game is clearly suffering from this issue.  I would prefer to not have the proximity system, but R* plan (forced public lobbies with all activities working but proximity visibility) is probably better for most players and I can accept that. Player interaction does not always have to be PvP...in fact some relationships start in this way, competitive and then friendly.  I actually enjoy the emote system when I need to get close to player.  I just tip my hat and keep it moving.  I am not above a good encounter in game, I use the posse up feature all the time.  I still am cautious with people online. 

 

But seriously, I am not afraid to stand my ground. I would never change lobbies to avoid one griefer. I am glad to be KD fodder, these fights may may start annoyingly or frustrating but they often evolve to a cat and mouse type game.   There are no jets or overpowered weapons for one person to get instant kills like GTAO.  Bottom line, I have done everything this game has to offer and a good pvp fr battle is by far for me the most engaging activity.  Is it RDO at its best, no that's probably a posse going here and there getting bounties, and just doing activities together.  FR PvP battles are currently limited and rarely happens which is fine as long as there are deer, squirrels, birds, bears, cougars...to go after.

 

Now teams of griefers are a bit different, thats were defensive comes into play...and its just as fun because most of griefers have no idea what to do when you switch and start killing them because hardly anyone fights back.  Obviously roving bands of dynamite arrows in the heart lands near the rhodes fence would be an unwise fight for a solo even with defensive, but even that is be fun for a while, and I would still not quit, hide behind hills wait for the aggro members and auto shotgun their horse while the tryhard snipers are standing back.  Interesting gameplay, much more than the fetch quests anyway, I enjoy the Pve, but after a while a real challenge is better.

 

The absolute worst thing is getting attacked on a delivery...and then you dc and the player is listed as offline.  I would rather lose 5 full wagons than get dc after an attack that I cannot at least attempt revenge. 

They have to fix the issue with animals, we are talking about an essential part of the game. Removing or adding a feature that's supposed to act like a solution to a problem isn't an actual fix, that's what Rockstar have done with GTA Online, the jets became a problem? Here's the new explosive sniper that can shut them down. What you are asking for is the same approach, animals aren't spawning? Remove the proximity system. Your camp isn't spawning? Here's a mission to take over someone's else camp. Eventually R* will start monetizing this approach, you are having a hard time dealing with a full posse? Here's the new armored wagon fitted with explosive machine gun to turn them into ash, and it will continue like that until Red Dead Online becomes GTA Online 2.0

 

About the relationship part, that doesn't apply to most if not all the griefers I have faced, so the majority won't become friends with you. And if your goal is to forge a friendly relationship with your opponent, maybe you should approach him with a friend request?

 

Speaking of "griefers", it's not a matter of being afraid of them, it's more about whether is it worth it wasting your time on them. You never know if you might end up in a situation where you only have a maximum of 3 hours to play this game and you want to try out a new feature in free roam, then some griefer show up, forcing you to waste your time with him. The proximity system fix this issue, you could ignore him and he will have a hard time chasing you not knowing where you are. This system fix the griefing issue on all kinds of situations that you could end up in, a new DLC is released and you only have a few hours to try it out? Ignore the griefer and enjoy the new DLC. Your new friend is trying out the game on your console/PC and a griefer showed up? Simply ignore the griefer and let him explore the world.

 

Also, the removal of the proximity system will just lead to the "absolute worst thing" that you hate, if I was a griefer, I'll exactly do what you just said, make use of the map to pinpoint your location while you're doing some delivery, destroy your cargo and disconnect. Wasting the time you spent hunting and pissing you off because you can't get revenge on me. You could disconnect during the delivery before I destroy your cargo, but you will lose it anyway as R* no longer save sale progress because they had to patch a money glitch.

 

In other words, the proximity system is extremely useful and one of the great additions to the game.

Edited by Fun 2
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CosmicBuffalo
1 hour ago, kcole4001 said:

I think you're ghosted to other players, I've seen them go by on occasion, so I assume that's what's happening, so I'm sure it's as advertised and no one can ruin your sale but your own bad driving. ūüôā

 

The difference in payouts is only $125 for full sale, sure that's significant earlier on, but as a late entering PC player, I've done my research, I've read the day one player's complaints, watched the youtube videos and streams, and the difference in income really only means you reach the point of not being able to spend it sooner.

That 125 adds up quickly after 10 sales...youre out 1250.  FYI, 90% of players are like you, they leave you alone.   If you get attacked or crash, just close the game, all of my stuff was there twice today...once due a challenge I issued to a player that came in much later than I thought he would and I actually was attacked for the 3rd time.  I have done 240 resupplies, so roughly 80 large sales. Obviously there is a risk to doing this, I cannot guarantee it will work everytime.

Edited by CosmicBuffalo
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CosmicBuffalo

@Fun 2ask and ye shall receive, I was attacked by 2 groups of people.  And I would definitely prefer to have griefers coming for me, its something I really miss from GTAO.  I really hope R* can it together on the animals spawns in normal lobbies.  I agree that is animals are an essential part of the game. 

 

You would be surprised even after the most horrendous and ruthless trash talking back and forth at how many griefers will initiate friendliness with you if you refuse to back down in game.  Its probably roughly half that eventually would invite you to a party and trash talk which would lead to a friendlier talk if you are open to it.  I am an outlier on game time, so that doesnt even cross my mind, I play because I work from home a lot and talk on the phone mainly at home, so I can do alot of both.  I thought the proximity system was good compromise and hope the spawning issue will be fixed because if its not, I am probably done after the next update.  I read R* is back in the news again for taking too many tax benefits and the reason given was we are working on GTA6.  

 

Defensive mode reminds of the days when you could glitch out bst for the entire lobby and there was no explosive sniper in GTAO...where all you had was a lucky rpg against a jet. If you were good with a jet, it was no problem to take on 5 or more people at once.  These are the good times I remember.  Now its spam the mk2...people loading in and out with the orbital cannon.  GTAO's pvp is a shell of what it once was...here on this game is so fun, but no one even messes with you, because its generally adults who do not have the time as you say.  I always figured its just people are generally nicer on this game.

Edited by CosmicBuffalo

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CMCSAVAGE
19 hours ago, Fun 2 said:

If you lose, you basically become an easy prey for a griefer who will take the advantage to raise his K/D ratio.

Prior to the change, that just would've been someone being a a$$hole. Since this game doesn't have a K/D (thank God it doesn't), that couldn't be a reason. 

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MSK_MKIII
2 hours ago, CMCSAVAGE said:

Since this game doesn't have a K/D (thank God it doesn't)...

 

You keep it this way R* ya hear!

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