RDO Next Updates Speculation & General Chat (Part I)

[Shane_Dbns]

It's weird how much they try to push pvp even though it's clear they have no idea how to balance it and also the fact the basic combat mechanics were built for player VS npc and not player VS player 

 

 

[Jason]

56 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

It's not as though survivals would be that hard to create either. I can't see them being more time consuming than Showdowns.

 

I can't see any good reason for not adding some quick and easy to make co-op PvE to the game. 

Listen I aint a game dev and I don't have any knowledge on what it's like to work on RAGE but... GTAO... copy and paste... Can't be that complicated, can it? Boggles my mind that the game still doesn't have them honestly.

 

27 minutes ago, Shane_Dbns said:

It's weird how much they try to push pvp even though it's clear they have no idea how to balance it and also the fact the basic combat mechanics were built for player VS npc and not player VS player 

Rockstar have absolutely zero understanding of balancing fullstop. When something is OP their response is to release something even more OP to beat it... and then repeat that cycle until we have GTAO in 2020.

 

Players routinely break their games in unexpected ways and that was seen as good thing when they were single player, it was the sandbox innit? But when you add multiple people into the mix then the sandbox needs some rules.

[Direwrath]

30 minutes ago, Jason said:

Rockstar have absolutely zero understanding of balancing fullstop. When something is OP their response is to release something even more OP to beat it... and then repeat that cycle until we have GTAO in 2020.

 

Players routinely break their games in unexpected ways and that was seen as good thing when they were single player, it was the sandbox innit? But when you add multiple people into the mix then the sandbox needs some rules.

Common sense should have told them that this was not going to go well without a good set of boundaries being set so the different types of players could get their thrill out of the game in their own way... Sometimes playing this game is reminiscent of the school playground, but without the monitor out there to keep things civil between the kiddos. 

 

So nothing worthwhile until possibly May 5th? I have to say that I wished someone else could buy this game out from R* and take over it's development, because R* is failing so badly when they created something so amazing. 

[Mik73]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Listen I aint a game dev and I don't have any knowledge on what it's like to work on RAGE but... GTAO... copy and paste... Can't be that complicated, can it? Boggles my mind that the game still doesn't have them honestly.

 

Rockstar have absolutely zero understanding of balancing fullstop. When something is OP their response is to release something even more OP to beat it... and then repeat that cycle until we have GTAO in 2020.

 

Players routinely break their games in unexpected ways and that was seen as good thing when they were single player, it was the sandbox innit? But when you add multiple people into the mix then the sandbox needs some rules.

I remember in the first few crazy days/weeks of GTAO being shocked they would give players grenades/explosive/rockets in free roam that could destroy our expensive fancy cars with one lousy shot. To me that right there spelled, "stay away from free roam lobbies, R* can't create a fair online environment to save their lives". I blow up you, you blow up me. Rinse repeat ad nauseam. And they never veered from that level of unbalanced absurdity.

 

Then they go and do the exact same thing in RDO by allowing players to carry and damage each other with explosive rounds, dynamite and incendiary ammo. Basically pre-nerfing any 'Defensive Mode' adjustments they put in place. It would be laughable if it wasn't so frustrating and rage-inducing.

Anyway, I'm all for more co-op PvE content like Survivals, or anything similar to Trade Route. Definitely seems like 'quick win' content that shouldn't take a huge amount of resources to implement. They can re-use mission content and NPC AI from Single player, Land of Op or Moonshiners and just make it easier to access. Put a 'Survival' series together, maybe with some kind of ramifications on their Honour system - which could use some major buffing in the content dept imo - or tie them back to a profession grind somehow.  Something other then just more cash/xp. They can't seem to figure out reward systems other then cash/xp.  So once players reach 'max level' or have more cash then they know what to do with, it's just 'play/grind for the love of the game'. They need to break out of that rut somehow...

Edited April 8, 2020 by Mik73

[Potter145]

It could be as easy as just implementing the difficulty settings of the moonshine story missions into the leclerk story. Offer a one time reward for completion on each difficulty. And more rewards when you complete certain objectives (like 20 headshots, no deaths etc....).

 

They could do double reward weeks (Gold, cash and xp) for story and free roam missions as well.

 

Instead they decided to give an XP bonus to the least popular modes.

Edited April 8, 2020 by executor404

[4thgear]

15 minutes ago, Mik73 said:

I remember in the first few crazy days/weeks of GTAO being shocked they would give players grenades/explosive/rockets in free roam that could destroy our expensive fancy cars with one lousy shot. To me that right there spelled, "stay away from free roam lobbies, R* can't create a fair online environment to save their lives". I blow up you, you blow up me. Rinse repeat ad nauseam. And they never veered from that level of unbalanced absurdity.

 

Then they go and do the exact same thing in RDO by allowing players to carry and damage each other with explosive rounds, dynamite and incendiary ammo. Basically pre-nerfing any 'Defensive Mode' adjustments they put in place. It would be laughable if it wasn't so frustrating and rage-inducing.

Anyway, I'm all for more co-op PvE content like Survivals, or anything similar to Trade Route. Definitely seems like 'quick win' content that shouldn't take a huge amount of resources to implement. They can re-use mission content and NPC AI from Single player, Land of Op or Moonshiners and just make it easier to access. Put a 'Survival' series together, maybe with some kind of ramifications on their Honour system - which could use some major buffing in the content dept imo - or tie them back to a profession grind somehow.  Something other then just more cash/xp. They can't seem to figure out reward systems other then cash/xp.  So once players reach 'max level' or have more cash then they know what to do with, it's just 'play/grind for the love of the game'. They need to break out of that rut somehow...

Everything you mentioned here hits home. This is what I really wanted to be different in Red dead online after enduring this in gta online but rockstar seems really incapable of doing that. I doubt any of this will get fixed. I've complained about the broken pvp so many times and everyone has always flamed me for it. I honestly think explosive ammo is just a little taster of the levels of absurdity that is to come for this game. 

[TerryJamieKingDonovan]

2 hours ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

It's not as though survivals would be that hard to create either. I can't see them being more time consuming than Showdowns.

 

I can't see any good reason for not adding some quick and easy to make co-op PvE to the game. 

Well, the tools for creating Showdown Modes are already there and tested.

 

On the other hand a Survival Mode, has not been "done before" meaning that they would need to invest in Tools to create that type of Mode, before they are able to whip them out as easily as Showdown Modes.

Also it is not like they added new types of Showdown Modes to the game, they merely added new Maps fort the already existing Showdown Modes, something that is very easy and quick to do, it's almost like the Content Creator in GTA Online.

Making a new Showdown Mode or a Survival Mode, isn't as quick and easy.

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Listen I aint a game dev and I don't have any knowledge on what it's like to work on RAGE but... GTAO... copy and paste... Can't be that complicated, can it? Boggles my mind that the game still doesn't have them honestly.

 

It isn't that easy really, the Tools for GTA Online cannot be re-used for Red Dead Online, the codebase is entirely different, they'd need to create entirely new Tools for Survival Modes.

53 minutes ago, Direwrath said:

Common sense should have told them that this was not going to go well without a good set of boundaries being set so the different types of players could get their thrill out of the game in their own way... Sometimes playing this game is reminiscent of the school playground, but without the monitor out there to keep things civil between the kiddos. 

 

So nothing worthwhile until possibly May 5th? I have to say that I wished someone else could buy this game out from R* and take over it's development, because R* is failing so badly when they created something so amazing. 

Honestly very few other gaming companies would pick it up.

There is a reason why networking in Rockstar Online games sucks, because no other Online game has to synchronize between that many entities accross the screen.

Call Of Duty? Doesn't even have NPCs. Ubisoft titles? Most of them do not have a large scale Online Mode that attempts to take over all the aspects of Singleplayer gameplay, dynamic events, animals, enemies.

Syncrhonizing Enemies in PvE gameplay is bad enough,(for games like The Division) but all that other stuff?

The issue is that R*s Singleplayer games added a significant amount of dynamicism that cannot be that easily carried over into Online without breaking something else, it simply cannot handle it. This is also the reason why Rockstar has shied away from dedicated server infrastructure, the server costs would be immense and the individual servers would need to handle "too much".

 

If Red Dead Online was a PvP focused endevour like most other Online Games, you can bet that Rockstar would be far more consistent and constant in their schedule for Updates, but it isn't, it is simply a game that cannot be easily planned ahead, it is too complex for that, and there really isn't anything compareable out there.

Edited April 8, 2020 by TerryJamieKingDonovan

[Jason]

I've played MMO's that have hundreds of players in an area shooting, running, using gadgets/abilities, looting, all that stuff, with and without NPC's, AI, world events, etc. It requires dedicated servers of course but neither RDO and GTAO are doing anything extreme in comparison, it's pretty tame really. It's not like these MMO's are making hundreds of millions a year either like Rockstar's online games, some of them basically just make enough to get by.

 

As for update frequency not being possible for PvE game, yea no. Lot of other studios are working on tight content schedules, games like Warframe and Path of Exile are capable of producing big content updates every few months, MMORPG's like Guild Wars 2 are putting out Living World chapters every few months which include entire new maps, stories, items, loot, the whole shebang.

[ALifeOfMisery]

1 hour ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

they would need to invest in Tools to create that type of Mode, before they are able to whip them out as easily as Showdown Modes.

If this is the case, then that is precisely what they should do. Any time and resources R* would need to invest would be far better spent creating co-op PvE modes such as survivals because

 

1) They have been highly requested.

2) Hardly anyone plays PvP modes.

3) PvP in RDO is utter garbage and beyond redemption.

 

1 hour ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

This is also the reason why Rockstar has shied away from dedicated server infrastructure, the server costs would be immense

Oh, that's definitely the reason, but let's nip any sympathy for that reasoning in the bud.

 

R*, having made something like $8Bn, and counting, from their two releases since 2013, deserve to be cut no slack at all. They aren't dipping their toe in the water with RDO, they'd been running the most profitable entertainment product in history for over 5 years by the time RDO released. 

 

They knew the problems and limitations of P2P going into RDO, Shark Card sales alone could fund dedicated servers and still turn in hundreds of millions of Dollars per year in profits without even taking Gold Bar sales into account.

 

There are full scale MMORPG's, not MMO lite like GTAO and RDO, that are run and regularly updated with significant content that use dedicated servers and have nothing like the profitability R* enjoy from GTAO and RDO.

 

1 hour ago, TerryJamieKingDonovan said:

The issue is that R*s Singleplayer games added a significant amount of dynamicism

I honestly think this is nothing more than a popular misconception born out of most players only ever completing one single player play through.

 

Even in RDR2, where R* have attempted to push the illusion of a dynamic, living world the most, once you've played single player multiple times it's clear to see that the illusion is paper thin.

 

Everything is so heavily scripted and linear, the players actions over 60+ hours make almost no difference to the game other than increasing the law presence and altering which cut scene they'll see at the end.

 

During my third and fourth play throughs I knew exactly where to go and under what circumstances in order to trigger events.

 

There was nothing random or dynamic about it. Which is the real reason R* can't transfer dynamism from SP to online, because it never existed in SP to begin with.

Edited April 8, 2020 by ALifeOfMisery

[Nerfgoth]

15 hours ago, Son of Dutch said:

Chances of a new update this month? 

The possibility is there

 

7 hours ago, Fun 2 said:

That's four new maps.

"Overrun - Pike’s Basin"

"Plunder - Stillwater Creek"

"Spoils of War - Roanoke Valley"

"Up In Smoke - Kamassa River"

More maps are coming to two Showdown modes in the upcoming weeks.

All this new showdowns we got doesn't that require a dlc or is it old stuff?

 

I'm just wondering if I will hit 365 days of dailys before or after next update?

[ALifeOfMisery]

2 minutes ago, Nerfgoth said:

I'm just wondering if I will hit 365 days of dailys before or after next update?

I'm only about 30 days away from a year long streak now, I've resigned myself to the thought that I'll have no reasons at all left to log in before the next update drops.

[Nerfgoth]

1 hour ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

I'm only about 30 days away from a year long streak now, I've resigned myself to the thought that I'll have no reasons at all left to log in before the next update drops.

My goal is to hit a year but after that I don´t know.....

[Jason]

tfw they give out an award for having a year streak but lots of players including my self don't get it cause they broke streaks in September

 

I honestly think that'd be the final nail in the coffin for me if they did that lol.

[Tez2]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

Rockstar have absolutely zero understanding of balancing fullstop. When something is OP their response is to release something even more OP to beat it... and then repeat that cycle until we have GTAO in 2020.

 

Players routinely break their games in unexpected ways and that was seen as good thing when they were single player, it was the sandbox innit? But when you add multiple people into the mix then the sandbox needs some rules.

Not really, Rockstar has shown great care during the BETA period which convinced me enough that this game won't end up as GTA Online, we still get balance adjustments from update to update.

Yes, adjustments to basic systems would be appreciated, but it's gonna take several adjustments over a long period of time to reach an almost perfect state, if what you are asking for can't be achieved by simply adjusting parameters (movement speed, transition from walking to sprinting ..etc) then it may not happen or it's gonna take a longer time to happen.

3 hours ago, Nerfgoth said:

All this new showdowns we got doesn't that require a dlc or is it old stuff?

They were made with RDO version of content creator.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Fun 2

[Jason]

Hard question mark over great care being shown during the beta period when it comes to balancing to be honest. They put a big effort into anti-griefing mechanics which were genuinely great additions but that was really the only major thing they worked on and it took them something like half a year to get that settled. 

 

Ability cards, most of them are useless, a select few are god tier and a few more are usable but there's a lot that have no real place in the game even from a casual standpoint. Weapons are actually fairly well balanced for the most part in my experience however they nerfed the Varmint Rifle's PvE effectiveness hard because it was OP against players. Explosive ammo is a wild ride when it comes to balancing, it's simply OP in every shape or form. It's not even like GTAO where you can tell if someone has an RPG or a tank (less said about the ION cannon the better though lol), in RDO someone can be holding any old gun that will 1 hit you because they loaded it with explosive ammo. There's a reason powerful things in games tend to be bigger or glowing or whatever, as our brains are ingrained with the idea that bigger = more powerful and that visual stimuli tells us to not be reckless cause this enemy will be more dangerous than the typical enemy. RDO has absolutely none of that and it causes issues particularly in PvP, it's balancing is essentially if you can't beat them, join them, which is, uh, in my book not a very good thing.

[ALifeOfMisery]

4 hours ago, Nerfgoth said:

My goal is to hit a year but after that I don´t know.....

Same here. I could aim for 1k Gold Bars, I guess. But what's the point.

[Nerfgoth]

2 hours ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

Same here. I could aim for 1k Gold Bars, I guess. But what's the point.

After level 100 there is not much to do but setting up goals.....

[ALifeOfMisery]

57 minutes ago, Nerfgoth said:

After level 100 there is not much to do but setting up goals.....

Yeah, that's what has kept me going so far.

 

With the content we currently have available, I've done everything I want to do and bought everything I want to buy.

 

The only thing I have left is the year long daily streak, because I figure that as I've managed to avoid streak resets so far, I might as well.

 

As you said though, after a year, what next? 18 months? 2 years? That would become a chore to me. I think other than maxing out new roles and Outlaw Passes (already have enough collections waiting to complete Pass 3 on day one), I'll probably just set myself a broad target of having more cash and gold at the end of each update cycle than I did at the start. 

 

Like many of us, I already have enough cash and gold that I could just not play between updates and still have enough to buy whatever I want for a year easily, maybe two or more, so personally I don't really see any point in setting myself any specific targets with regards to in game wealth. 

[GTAJip]

RDR2 Tunables updated?

[Nerfgoth]

2 hours ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

Yeah, that's what has kept me going so far.

 

With the content we currently have available, I've done everything I want to do and bought everything I want to buy.

 

The only thing I have left is the year long daily streak, because I figure that as I've managed to avoid streak resets so far, I might as well.

 

As you said though, after a year, what next? 18 months? 2 years? That would become a chore to me. I think other than maxing out new roles and Outlaw Passes (already have enough collections waiting to complete Pass 3 on day one), I'll probably just set myself a broad target of having more cash and gold at the end of each update cycle than I did at the start. 

 

Like many of us, I already have enough cash and gold that I could just not play between updates and still have enough to buy whatever I want for a year easily, maybe two or more, so personally I don't really see any point in setting myself any specific targets with regards to in game wealth. 

Well its up to R* after I completed my goal if they update the game and keeping it fresh. Now that their staff work from home there will be issues in the beginning.

 

But I'm not going to stress trough the pass just take it slow and enjoy it!

 

1 hour ago, GTAJip said:

RDR2 Tunables updated?

Yupp! And there is some good stuff too!

[Ana Maria Catrina]

Good stuff, really? What they added?

[TagoKG]

IDK

[Talisman_83]

23 hours ago, Talisman_83 said:

Honestly, who gives a sh*t about this? 

Showdown modes until the end of time, who cares whether fundamental aspects of the game work properly

@ Admin / Staff / Mods

 

Whoever thought to add a 'for the weans' reaction, haha. 

A fellow Scotsman (Glaswegian) salutes you.

[kcole4001]

16 minutes ago, Talisman_83 said:

@ Admin / Staff / Mods

 

Whoever thought to add a 'for the weans' reaction, haha. 

A fellow Scotsman (Glaswegian) salutes you.

But what does it mean?

[TagoKG]

So what does means today rdo tunables updates  ?

[Talisman_83]

14 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

But what does it mean?

Weans is Scottish slang for kids. (pronounced 'waynes')

 

Meaning, people reacted to my post about Showdown modes, saying that they are for kids

Edited April 9, 2020 by Talisman_83

[Nerfgoth]

3 hours ago, Ana Maria Catrina said:

Good stuff, really? What they added?

Nothing but there is good discounts on shirts and gloves and pamphlets

[Tez2]

2 hours ago, TagoKG said:

So what does means today rdo tunables updates  ?

A new "CD_GLOBAL" variable was added, such variables are for misc stuff like matchmaking, photo upload, game data ..etc

Edited April 9, 2020 by Fun 2

[No Homing]

25 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

A new "CD_GLOBAL" variable was added, such variables are for misc stuff like matchmaking, photo upload, game data ..etc

So do you know what it's for?

[éX-Driver]

I don’t know why people are complaining about explosive ammunition. I experience far more explosive spam in GTAO than in RDO. And 75% of the time the explosives I see in RDO is thrown dynamite, and 20% of the time it’s dynamite arrows you pick up from spawn points during the match. I can go multiple pvp matches in a row and only hear 1-2 explosions the entire match. I think it’s because you can carry such a small amount that it’s only worth using when someone is camping in a hard-to-reach area. And explosive bullets are such a pain to craft that it makes em that much more valuable. I honestly can’t remember the last time I was shot by someone using explosive or even incendiary bullets in a situation where I didn’t shoot them with it first.