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JDumas1977

What is it with developers today....

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JDumas1977

An their conviluting the story they have molded in previous games? I found myself asking this question at the end of RDR2 in relation to the relationship between Arthur an John. In RDR, John never once mentions Arthur an the important he played in John escaping to the spot we him in RDR, just how he got those scars, which we find out early on in the prologue just isn't the case. Now I'm not saying he needed to go into a long drawn out monologue to establish Arthur early, but at least an honorable mention (i.e. Landon Ricketts mention during bounty mission #1 in Valentine) would have been enough to drawn questions from the community an maybe even more hype for RDR2. 

 

                        Just an observation...

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Darealbandicoot
On 1/15/2019 at 9:21 PM, Boozey St James said:

It brings up very good points. The gang did WAAAAAY more damage in Saint Denis than Blackwater YET they don't want to go back to Blackwater which has NO BUSINESS to be still in lock down and the characters seem firmly against for some strange reason. Also Dutch already had camp spots picked out for New Austin. I'm honestly surprised Rockstars world class writers don't see these problems in their plot. 

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0223998743
9 hours ago, Darealbandicoot said:

It brings up very good points. The gang did WAAAAAY more damage in Saint Denis than Blackwater YET they don't want to go back to Blackwater which has NO BUSINESS to be still in lock down and the characters seem firmly against for some strange reason. Also Dutch already had camp spots picked out for New Austin. I'm honestly surprised Rockstars world class writers don't see these problems in their plot. 

Yes, more than once the story is hilarious as it does not make sense and is totally exaggerated.

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Zello

Christian Cantemessa a member of the writing team left after writing RDR1. I don't think he thought that Red Dead Redemption and John's story would get a prequel.

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Jabalous

John says that he doesn't like to talk about him, and in addition, there was no a fitting occasion that John could have used to talk about Arthur or any gang member other than Williamson and Escuella who he was pursuing. It somehow worked for Rockstar. However, I believe that they didn't write Redemption with a definite plan for a prequel, and actually in one of the interviews with Rob Nelson, he said that he was begging Dan Houser to make a prequel to Redemption after it was released in 2010. 

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I Like Fun

Because at the time of RDR1 they hadn't thought of the prequel and I don't think they should retroactively go back and change it.

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RyuNova
On 1/20/2019 at 8:25 PM, Darealbandicoot said:

It brings up very good points. The gang did WAAAAAY more damage in Saint Denis than Blackwater YET they don't want to go back to Blackwater which has NO BUSINESS to be still in lock down and the characters seem firmly against for some strange reason. Also Dutch already had camp spots picked out for New Austin. I'm honestly surprised Rockstars world class writers don't see these problems in their plot. 

 

Blackwater was possibly a set-up and they stole faaaaaar more money in Blackwater than they did in Saint Denis. You find out at the end that John gets twenty grand and assuming its a fair split it would have been sixty grand and that's after eight years of it being squandered away so we can safely assume more than a hundred grand was stolen which would be over three million in today's money.

And to answer the question, RDR1 was written before Arthur even existed. If you want an explanation then Abigail tells Uncle that "Even though John does not talk about Arthur much he thinks abut him constantly." and we can also say that John is letting Arthur rest by not dragging his name through the mud.
 

If they ever did a RDR Remaster I would like new audio added to mention Arthur. Even better would be RDR1 made in the RDR2 engine and released as DLC.

Edited by RyuNova

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PapasHota

Personally i consider this game story just a spin-off fanfic filler because it makes no sense coming from the original and canon RDR.

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Jimbatron
22 hours ago, RyuNova said:

 

Blackwater was possibly a set-up and they stole faaaaaar more money in Blackwater than they did in Saint Denis. You find out at the end that John gets twenty grand and assuming its a fair split it would have been sixty grand and that's after eight years of it being squandered away so we can safely assume more than a hundred grand was stolen which would be over three million in today's money.

And to answer the question, RDR1 was written before Arthur even existed. If you want an explanation then Abigail tells Uncle that "Even though John does not talk about Arthur much he thinks abut him constantly." and we can also say that John is letting Arthur rest by not dragging his name through the mud.
 

If they ever did a RDR Remaster I would like new audio added to mention Arthur. Even better would be RDR1 made in the RDR2 engine and released as DLC.

Agreed. The one mission that maybe feels a bit off is the amount of police killed when they rob the trolley station. Obviously for the overarching plot Bronte has to double cross them but this could possibly have been better done - maybe he asked them to take a score off a rival gang and then tried to whack them afterwards. Of course from the Bank Robbery at the end of C4 the Pinkertons are pretty much all over the gang for the rest of the tale - at the end of C5 they send in a small army.

 

Also it’s probably not critiquing too much the gameplay compromises - i.e something that’s purely designed to keep part of the map locked even if it’s not a perfect fit proportionally to the narrative.

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jje1000
On 2/12/2019 at 8:29 AM, Jimbatron said:

Agreed. The one mission that maybe feels a bit off is the amount of police killed when they rob the trolley station.

Not killed- injured with only minor head injuries! The ones you don't see being buried are carted off and healed up in time for you to shoot them in the head the next time round.

 

That's the only explanation that could explain why Strawberry's still functioning after yours truly and Micah commit what can be considered a small genocide, or why the Pinkertons and O'Driscolls still survive despite the gang mowing down the equivalent of a few small armies.

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RyuNova

To follow of on from my last post according to what I have read the Gang stole $150.000 dollars from Blackwater which is the equivalent of three and half million today, well worthy of the Dead or Alive response they got and having them as the Pinkertons only focus.

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Jimbatron
6 hours ago, jje1000 said:

Not killed- injured with only minor head injuries! The ones you don't see being buried are carted off and healed up in time for you to shoot them in the head the next time round.

 

That's the only explanation that could explain why Strawberry's still functioning after yours truly and Micah commit what can be considered a small genocide, or why the Pinkertons and O'Driscolls still survive despite the gang mowing down the equivalent of a few small armies.

It’s a fair point.

 

Personally I’m willing to suspend my disbelief as to whatever happens during the story missions. 99%+ of all games that have involved shooting are vaguely ridiculous - one guy taking on whole armies and keeping fighting despite taking multiple gunshots.

 

What I would say about RDR2 is the plot as seen in the cutscenes feels very realistic and plausible if you perhaps imagine the events depicted in the gameplay were smaller scale (mainly fewer corpses).

 

Theres always a bit of a tradeoff between realism and fun gameplay. Let’s be honest if every time Arthur got shot he’s either dead or out of action for weeks it would get irritating rather quickly. 

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RyuNova

Abigail tells Uncle that "Even though he does not talk about him alot, he thinks about Arthur all the time". John is an emotionally stunted man, he cannot even bond with his own Son. Hell, he cant even treat Jack like a child and engage him so its safe to assume that he has buried his feelings for Arthur deep down inside and either does not talk about out over respect for the dead or he does not want to bring up old emotions and memories.

Edited by RyuNova

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assassin1510

Its just so disappointing

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GinsengElixir
Posted (edited)
On 1/15/2019 at 7:37 PM, JDumas1977 said:

An their conviluting the story they have molded in previous games? I found myself asking this question at the end of RDR2 in relation to the relationship between Arthur an John. In RDR, John never once mentions Arthur an the important he played in John escaping to the spot we him in RDR, just how he got those scars, which we find out early on in the prologue just isn't the case. Now I'm not saying he needed to go into a long drawn out monologue to establish Arthur early, but at least an honorable mention (i.e. Landon Ricketts mention during bounty mission #1 in Valentine) would have been enough to drawn questions from the community an maybe even more hype for RDR2. 

 

                        Just an observation...

This is like the least of the issues. 

 

The problem is not that he never mentions Arthur(why would he, Arthur didn't exist at the time of making RDR), the problem is that John's canon story was mildly retconned or atleast hacked to pieces to shoehorn Arthur's redemption arc in.

 

In RDR, John says to Ricketts, 'The gang left me and I left them'. He made it seem cut and dry. In RDR2 Arthur actually helps him leave. Originally the gang did a heist, it went wrong, and the gang deserted John. By that time they'd gone crazy anyway. I loved Arthur's relationship with John and struggle to think how this story would work without it, but perhaps a bolder move would have been for John NOT to be an on screen character at all. He was abandoned in the Blackwater heist and then we never see him again, instead of abandoned in St.Denis and then again on the train robbery. He could have been only referenced...Arthur can be the one asking what happened to him or whatever and perhaps by the end Arthur figures it out, perhaps even meeting John at Beechers Hope toward his final days. Maybe the Pinkertons are still after him. 

 

This way we can still have the epilogue with John Milton or whatever his name is and see how John built Beechers Hope(or how he inherited it)...or, it can be left alone. There was a lot of fat to be trimmed from this story. That said, John is integral to the RDR2 story.

 

Or maybe Arthur could have survived Beaver Hollow shootout, go on to live the rest of his days alone and then we see him succumb to TB. Kinda depressing! 

Edited by GinsengElixir
Because I wanted to edit it ffs.

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