Why did Dutch......Spoiler

[Rammer2k]

End up shooting Micah in the end?  He was obviously there well before John arrived.  Micah even said they were teaming up again to do jobs.  Even stranger he just walks past John without saying a word, or not wanting the money.  Was he just too far gone at that point, or did seeing John again bring back how close the old gang was to him.  Especially Arthur, and Hosea.

[Gtaman_92]

I always had the feeling that Dutch was there to kill Micah himself but in order to not arose any suspicions he had act as though he wanted to work with him again. which is why he said he was there for the same reason as John during the standoff. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Gtaman_92

[Guest Guest176525326]

Nah, it just reminded Dutch how retarded he is and has been his whole life. Choosing a guy who joined the gang 6 months ago over his life long friends... to be honest with you, you can’t even blame Dutch, blame Rockstar for writing an utter bullsh*t story. 

[universetwisters]

Because Dutch always has a plan

[Cutter De Blanc]

Dutch is a crazy badass

[Implicitly]

He was defeated and knew he was wrong and that Micah was the rat all along. He tells John, "same as you, I suppose" because he is up there for revenge specifically to kill Micah. I take that he was never working with Micah or was with Micah probably had just arrived earlier than John. Micah thought that but he was going to be working with him again but instead Dutch's plan was to backstab him (which is funny because early in the game Micah talks about how "nothing is better" than backstabbing someone who thinks you like them, which is what Dutch does to him.)

 

So, basically he kills Micah out of revenge. Some may disagree, but personally I take it that it was also revenge for Arthur and that was his "redemption." He left the money for John because he didn't care about it. Signifying it was never about the money and he was wrong yet also I took it that him letting John take the money meant that he was "letting them go" for a better life what Arthur wanted.

 

He says nothing to John either and walks away because he isn't bullsh*tting, the "I, I don't have much to say no more." Is referring to Dutch not trying to charm his way out of something. For the first time ever you see Dutch speechless with no manipulation, usually he talks his way out of everything but first time ever, he was speechless and had nothing to say because he had no excuses he knew he was wrong. He was there purely for revenge. It was his redemption. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Implicitly

[Cutter De Blanc]

If Dutch was up there to kill Micah, John "Dunderhead" Marston charged in and screwed up his plan. Dutch always has a plan, you just gotta have some GODDAMN FAITH

 

Dutch running the slow game, was gonna be a big badass speech before he avenged his "son" and then Johnny Boy comes in with his typical "BILL, BILL WILLIAMSON IVE COME FOR YA BILL"  mentality shooting and killing everybody on the f*cking mountain and just generally making a mess of the plan

Edited January 11, 2019 by Cutter De Blanc

[Non Funkable Token]

Nah, the whole thing is perfectly understandable.

 

He played Micah only to get revenge on him, also to avenge Arthur, Susan and others. As for the money, trying to take all would have created a tough situation, with numbers against him, so, I guess he took as much money and gold as he could (he looked so bulky in that winter coat, suspicious) and ran away quietly. He wasn't probably able to carry all by himself anyway. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Fluffy Sock

[Old Man With No Name]

You know, dutch was always friendly at first with his victims. Like, sherrif gray, caterina braithwaite, angelo bronte even letvidicus cornwall (few moments before annesburg shootout)

 

I think dutch was here for to survive and playing micah's gang for himself.  I think he was planning to kill micah all along. Just like he was planning to death of john marston in chapter 6

You know, dutch was always friendly at first with his victims. Like, sherrif gray, caterina braithwaite, angelo bronte even letvidicus cornwall (few moments before annesburg shootout)

 

I think dutch was here for to survive and playing micah's gang for himself.  I think he was planning to kill micah all along. Just like he was planning to death of john marston in chapter 6

[Jimbatron]

Firstly the more mundane part of it.

 

Its noticeable that Dutch leaves the money not once, but twice.

 

End of Chapter 6 he walks away from it, and makes no attempt to lay claim to a share of it at the end of “American Venom” - and in the circumstance of the latter, if he said “I’m taking half” (for arguments sake), can you really see John fighting him over it?

 

Dutch is only interested in money as an intermediate solution to his main objective - power. Which in the story mean keeping conrolof his gang. But by the end of “Redemption” he can probably see it is already beyond repair.

 

Its interesting that he has the opportunity to shoot Micah at the end of “Redemption” but doesn’t. You can say for certain without knowing inside the mind of a fictional character but I’d say Dutch realised he’d made a mistake taking Micah into his confidence at the end of “Redemption” - but it took him a long time to rationalise it.

 

As an obvious narcissist, my bet is Dutch will have finally laid the blame on the break up of the gang at Micah’s door. But I suspect he would have failed to accept blame himself for trusting him in the first place and not heeding Arthur more closely. He’s not a man to admit he was wrong.

[Darealbandicoot]

3 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

If Dutch was up there to kill Micah, John "Dunderhead" Marston charged in and screwed up his plan. Dutch always has a plan, you just gotta have some GODDAMN FAITH

 

Dutch running the slow game, was gonna be a big badass speech before he avenged his "son" and then Johnny Boy comes in with his typical "BILL, BILL WILLIAMSON IVE COME FOR YA BILL"  mentality shooting and killing everybody on the f*cking mountain and just generally making a mess of the plan

Now that I think of it, Dutch taking revenge for his "son" Arthur, would have been WAAAAAY cooler to see and redeem him slightly.... Instead of John help hang a man in public unmasked and slaughter an entire gang going up Mount Shann and messing up Dutch's plan that would have kept John out of the Bureau's crosshairs.. Oh and Dutch and the rest of the gang wouldn't have died in 1911....probably. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Darealbandicoot

[DirtCheap]

Dutch probably wanted to end him as he tells John he's there for "the same reason as you" . However, judging by Micah's insane shooting skills, he was probably waiting for the right chance and when Ratty is focusing his gun at Marston, he shoots him.

[SM00V 0PERAT0R]

Because Dutch. Really all there is to say about it. I hated him the entire story. My second playthough I antagonize him constantly, and he shoves me then questions my loyalty.

I would shoot him if I could.
*Boom*
"Was that part of your f*cking plan Dutch?".

[Corndawg93]

I would've love to see a sniper kill Micah, and the camera pans over to the gun to reveal Arthur holding it, I mean you would've had to ignor him dying for that to make sence

[Tonesta]

Just finished the story yesterday after a long play through. Here's my ten cents (which echos much of what has been said):

 

There's two competing narratives about Dutch running through the storyline:

 

1) Dutch is a genius. He has a plan to lead his gang to freedom and riches. And if people just had faith and followed that plan, then everything would be OK - like his loyal soldiers Javier, Bill and Micah were doing. But his oldest friends Hosea, Arthur and John keep obstructing him and getting in his way at every turn.....so maybe, just maybe they're no longer with him but against him.

 

2) Dutch is a fool. He keeps making a bunch of nonsensical decisions that are rapidly leading his gang to destruction (a destruction that's probably inevitable anyway, but his plan is accelerating it). And he's getting all his counsel from a rat, Micah, who does nothing but flatter him, whilst shutting out those closest to him that actually have his best interests at heart.

 

 

Dutch is a flagrant narcissist with an ego the size of a planet, so for almost the entire length of the game he genuinely believes that Narrative #1 is the truth - and he tells everyone else this repeatedly and at length. In fact, we never see even a trace of doubt until right at the end of Chapter 6 - when he's finally faced with the direct choice between a dying Arthur and a scheming Micah, and he just walks away.

 

Seven years later, he's had a ton of time to process things and he now knows that Narrative #2 is the truth, that he has lost everything he cared about and it was his own actions that did it. So he tracks down Micah for the purpose of exacting a little retribution (the only question is exactly what his plan was there.....but it doesn't really matter). He gives Narrative #1 one final spin once John arrives, but his heart wasn't really in it.....and his ego is also too colossal to allow him to actually openly admit the truth to John and apologise; so instead he just tacitly shoots Micah and walks off without the money. It's his form of an apology to John, Arthur, Hosea, Susan and everyone else who was damaged by his foolishness.

 

I actually think that it's tremendously subtle writing for a video game. Something I'd more expect to be seeing in an HBO drama!

[Kirk Lazarus]

Dutch always walks away at the end of everything.  He even "walked away" off a cliff at the end of the previous Red Dead.

[Deadman2112]

As Dutch would say...

I know we've had setbacks in the past but...

Edited January 27, 2019 by Deadman2112

[The Jungz]

I think Dutch was conflicted when he saw John there. For 8 years, he felt like his prodigal son had abandoned him and refused to see that he was the one who had turned his back on him (because Dutch can never be wrong). He probably wanted to kill him but his unconditional love for him and for Arthur made him do the right thing, his initial plan, which was to murder Micah in revenge for the gang's downfall.

 

In a way, Dutch again deflects the blame off of himself as him shooting Micah is an indirect way of him admitting it's Micah's fault for what went down in 1899 and his only.

[SPÎÐER]

The reason Dutch shot Micah was because micah didn’t want to go to 

“TAHEETY!”

[Old Man With No Name]

Just watch "3:10 to yuma" movie. You'll find answer at the end of the movie

 

Both got same ending. except, john survives. So Ben Wade killed Charlie(micah inspired) and all of his gangmembers because he just wanted to help a family man and be a good guy for once. and he continued his outlaw run

 

Dutch did the same thing, at the end, killed micah(for arthur) and left all money for john. and continued his outlaw run

Edited December 24, 2019 by GroveStGTAV

[Rdr2]

Not played it in a while.  Not sure this is an accurate take....but i m not so sure dutch was there to kill micah.  I think at the heart of it all dutch is a survivor....he knew he was in a tough spot....to get himself out of it he kills micah and walks away without the money cause otherwise....john etc would have killed them both.  

 

Always liked dutch throughout the story....but by the end he ends up going against everything he claimed to stand for.  It was clear he should have chosen to side with arthur.   But by that point dutch had lost himself and had become what he hated.  Not all that sure he was always like that.  I really think he changed...as in the early days it wasn,t just an act to manipulate the gang.  He just went down the wrong path when the pressure got to him.  And changed as a person.  

 

I m not all that sure he actually had his redemption in the end.  Still feel that its wierd he happens to be there to kill micah just as john etc turns up.  But reading other peoples opinions maybe i,ve got it wrong...probably need to play it again.  

[Armerius]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:19 PM, GroveStGTAV said:

Just watch "3:10 to yuma" movie. You'll find answer at the end of the movie

  Reveal hidden contents

Both got same ending. except, john survives. So Ben Wade killed Charlie(micah inspired) and all of his gangmembers because he just wanted to help a family man and be a good guy for once. and he continued his outlaw run

 

Dutch did the same thing, at the end, killed micah(for arthur) and left all money for john. and continued his outlaw run

they even use the same jacket if i remember right

[Grilled Gecko]

Anyone notice the rat at the last mission or was it just me.

[Mokrie Dela]

Bear in mind how in RDRedemption John speaks of how Dutch "went mad in the end"

I never got that feeling in rdr2 that he was mad. Even at the end he just looked like he was pressing a reset button, just washing his hands of it all.

 

He must have respected John at some point, so I think sparing john, giving him the money etc was his own redemption, at least in his eyes. But equally by just walking off I got the message that he was saying to john "you mean nothing to me. You're not worth a bullet. And even now you wouldn't shoot me."

And if I was dutch would I truly believe micah would never turn on me? No. f*ck it all. Walk away and eventually (as seen in rdredemption) start again.

I also think there's an element of resignation. He doesn't know anymore. He's given up. Cant be bothered anymore.

 

[Rdr2]

Honestly thought him and micah we,re genuinely back working together.  Dutch being the survivor he is...choses to shoot micah to appease john and his gang.  Hes thinking otherwise john etc will kill them both.  He leaves the money and kills micah to spare his own life.

 

Never quite bought into the idea dutch turned up just before john got there.  Feels a bit dubious to me.  Looking at dutch over the course of the game....its not that far fetched that he makes up a story to save his own skin.  

 

Could be wrong tho...but its what i took from it anyway.  

[Middle Class Roadman]

I personally think Dutch was suffering from a mental illness

[The Blast]

33 minutes ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

I personally think Dutch was suffering from a mental illness

Dutch is basically Trump. Same mental illnesses, similar delusions.

[Copcaller]

21 hours ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

I personally think Dutch was suffering from a mental illness

Possibly and the head injury from the trolley crash didn't help either. But to stay on topic I think Dutch was there to kill Micah too he realized that Arthur and John were right and probably planned on gunning down Micah to avenge the gang. I guess he'd use the money and honey words to convince Micah's gang to not kill him or usurp control himself.