Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. GTAForums Annual Awards 2018

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. Gameplay
      2. Missions
      3. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Arena War
      2. After Hours
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA Next

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Rokushakubo

Thoughts about the risk factor of PvE in RDO

Recommended Posts

Lonely-Martin
7 minutes ago, Pocket Fox said:

Because shark cards and gold bars weren't a thing.

 

How under-monetised we used to be.

Freeloaders or undermonitised, that's all the players are according to some leaked meeting details at least.

 

I fully agree with damn near every word you posted here though. Really does make me think in time, I'll just not be a R* games gamer sooner than anticipated. (Would until the day my thumbs seize up otherwise, lol).

 

But of course, all the griefers and whales throw at those wanting an open world game that wants to be an open world game to offer freedom and allow us to make our game of it rather than say, all have the same back-story of being a falsely accused con on the run, to be fully creative and player driven is that we cry and are looking for carebears gaming, lol.

 

Pretty sad to see really. But some really do need easy targets so much that that's all they've got for a rebuttal. Bless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miahus
1 hour ago, Pocket Fox said:

Care bear sessions.... Seriously, I was mentioning this a month ago.

 

I know what you mean. It takes so much skill to shoot someone who is fishing or stuck in an animation skinning an animal. The care bears are the pvp'ers who shoot easy and defensiveness targets and then cry so hard at the mention of seperate servers because they'll lose their only source of easy kills. They love PvP sooo much... but won't ever touch the PvP playlists... 

 

Without PvE servers the PvE crowd will continue to complain until PvP free-roam is neutered/nerfed or they will simply stop playing the game. Sea of Thieves for example, absolute dead game. Rare refused different servers so if you want a PvE experience, you ain't getting one. If you want a PvP experience, again, you ain't getting one. Lose/lose

 

Amazing how there's server segregation in GTAO and Red Dead Redemption 1. And this wasn't an issue AT ALL. Now all of a sudden out of nowhere 'if you give pve'rs a pve only session you'll kill the game'   Cuz yeah, GTAO was dead on release and Red Dead Redemption 1 Friendly servers basically killed the whole game... right?

 

Be honest. The low skill griefers are frightened they'll lose their easy kills and suddenly find themselves the victim of more competent players, whom actually play PvP playlists.

 

The way people re-tell the truth and play spin doctor. Here, I'll jump in.

 

OMG this game is sooo low skill nooob! It's soo easy to do stuff. What R* needs to do, is make it like DayZ so when you die, you lose all your XP,  money and items and have to start from scratch again. This gives you much better risk, reward and would actually give you a reason to not want to fail or die. It gives killing and gun fights a lot more tension and depth. It would make the game a proper survival game, not the hand holding care bear experience it is right now.

I will assume you are replying to me, even though you didn't quote me.

Care bear is a gaming term and I didn't mean to offend anyone by it, but it does refers to players that don't want to have anything to do with PVP at all.

I mainly play free roam, I hunt, gather herbs, fish...do all the necessary things to make money and have ingredients to craft tonics, baits, ammo, horse medicine and stimulants...etc. Once in a while I will have to deal with aggressive players aka "low skill griefers" that come after me for no reason, kill them over and over until they leave the session. If I am hunting and a posse with a mission I can interfere with is close by, I will go for it since it gives money and xp and is a good change of pace. If I am targeted for assassination, I will pull all the info on the assassin and deal accordingly either by going straight for them or hunkering down in a homestead. I do enjoy these activities, but I don't really pursue them, it is all random and that's the beauty of it. I rarely touch pvp lobbies as I prefer open world sandbox style of play. So I don't know where do I fall exactly according to the dichotomy of pvper/pver crowds. I never asked for the game to be changed to a more hardcore mode, I simply pointed out the game is very safe and you have many tools to ensure your safety. I did point out the player base is too small right now for different style lobbies, such as pve or free aim, and that was the only explanation I could come up with on why R* didn't introduce as many lobbies yet, makes more sense than a conspiracy to make us buy more gold.

 

Earlier today, I had a player assassination mission, target was a part of a 3 man posse, target kept running away while the other 2 were trying to stop me, I killed 3 of them, mission is over, so I move on, they followed me to the next mission giver, started throwing dynamite and fire bottles at me while I was in the safe zone, I simply changed session and continued playing as if nothing happened because really nothing happened other than them losing money and materials throwing weapons at a player in passive mode. Some other players will choose to stay and play a waiting game with some idiots and then complain about griefers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ektope
1 hour ago, Pocket Fox said:

The care bears are the pvp'ers who shoot easy and defensiveness targets and then cry so hard at the mention of seperate servers because they'll lose their only source of easy kills. They love PvP sooo much... but won't ever touch the PvP playlists... 

I don't even know what "care bear" means anymore.

 

Google says, "Carebear is a slang term that is used to refer to a video gamer who avoids violence and competition, or a video came that has very few violent elements. In the context of game design, a carebear is usually aimed at a younger audience."

 

Even though you describe 'em as PvP'ers. A care bear wouldn't go around killing people, like the definition above?

Edited by Ektope

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pocket Fox
41 minutes ago, Ektope said:

I don't even know what "care bear" means anymore.

 

Google says, "Carebear is a slang term that is used to refer to a video gamer who avoids violence and competition, or a video came that has very few violent elements. In the context of game design, a carebear is usually aimed at a younger audience."

 

Even though you describe 'em as PvP'ers. A care bear wouldn't go around killing people, like the definition above?

The griefers in the game for the majority of the time target players who cannot fight back, whether stuck in animation, fishing or otherwise. They will also do other things like hide in a shop, rush out, get a kill and then run back into the shop to avoid retribution.

These players often do not play in the PvP playlists and instead only pick fights in free roam. They are care bears in the sense they are avoiding any serious competition. Imagine an adult who plays a sport, only entering competitions designed for children, similar thing. Tom age 32 vs Toby, age 8. 

 

In Age of Conan or whatever the MMO was called, the PvE servers were called carebear servers... R18+ game with gore, violence, nudity and fatality kills. But according to google's explanation it couldn't exist because it says it requires low violence. I use the term care bear for those wanting an easy experience where there is little to no challenge and they avoid challenge at any cost, going so far as to exploit game mechanics. What's the difference with PvE? I'd be asking for PvE servers to be made harder with more difficult AI, more AI, less time for the same task etc. To make the experience more challenging. The last thing I want or most people want, is an easy mode.

 

As far as PvP free roam, you can't make gameplay balances to effectively cater to PvE/PvP in the same environment, it doesn't work. You either over buff, over nerf or create NEW exploits or simply ruin the experience for one group or the other. Currently, it's not that fun to play PvE in a PvP session. Likewise, PvP isn't all that rewarding in free roam because the activities don't reward it.

 

With a separation of lobby types you could provide a much better experience to both groups and give reasons for PvE players to want to try out a PvP server from time to time and vice versa. 

So R* thinks some AI bounty hunters are going to 'fix' the issue... No. It's only going to create some more lag and instability on a server and how will a griefer really be affected by some AI? Climb a ladder...shoot them. huzzah. Just run away or hide. R*'s thinking though and said 'pay off your bounty' oh, so more milking you for money. So you want to play an outlaw and now you get financially punished for it. Why can't the bounty hunters be HUMAN players chasing down the HUMAN griefer or maybe they dont grief, they're just an outlaw or thats what they are going for. That'd be more fun for the PvP crowd and mean players who like PvP, but not griefing can get in on the action.

 

Why not events in free roam where the bank or a coach is designated as a point of interest. High honour players have to defend, escort or protect it for x minutes while dishonourable players get x mins to destroy, capture or loot it.

 

There's so much that can be done for PvE and PvP but lumping them together doesn't mean success, it means PvE'rs will complain every time they get shot at and PvP'ers will see more and more mechanics introduced that dull their gameplay experience and make it utterly boring.

R* says 'easier to trigger parley'  so.. I die once, twice I can do it?  So you can kill the hunter, have him lose his/her pelts. You griefed them, they parley... no more PvP fun.. time to ride around for another 20 mins until you see a blip :/    lose/lose

 

 

My chief complaint about how R* is responding to feedback is they are as always, not listening and not giving us what we want. They are telling us 'you really wanted THIS when you asked for THAT'

 

As a demonstration/comparison as to how R* responds to customers.

 

If R* ran an Italian restaurant:

 

Customer: 'I'd like pasta please'

R*: 'We don't have pasta'

Customer: 'May I order spaghetti?'

R*: 'We do not have spaghetti either'

Customer: 'Well, how about lasagna?'

R*: 'We do not have lasagna either. But I see what you want, I will right back'

(R* returns with a bowl of raw potatoes)

R*: 'Here, this is what you really wanted. carbohydrates'

Customer: 'No, I wanted pasta or spaghetti, or even lasagna. I'll take risotto if you have any. And you don't eat potatoes raw, you cook them.'

R*: 'We don't have any of that, we only have these potatoes. This is what you are asking for, it's the same thing, carbohydrates'

Customer: 'No, I want something I like, such as pasta.'

R*: 'I'll see what I can do'

(R* disappears for a while, then returns)

R*: 'Good news, I spoke to our chef... he has agreed to bake your potatoes for you. Please enjoy your carbohydrates'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DrKrankenstein
17 hours ago, trudypoo2 said:

The thing is, there is little risk. You die, you respawn, you lose nothing except a carcass and maybe a pelt. I am with OP, the risk of other people shooting you is pretty much the only thing that makes the game interactive and fun online. There really isn't anything to do with other players aside from shooting them or shooting other people with them. I like to fish and hunt but come on!

so you like to fish, what if ,a lvl 167 decided you don't get to fish. and shoots you with a bolt action, peak c. 3, horseman 3 so fast that you don't even get to parley? the system is flawed, you spawn too close, too fast,and before you even selected your rusty carbine, your dead again.

Sure you can switch servers. but the mentality of some will be thre aswell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
D4PLK
6 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

If R* ran an Italian restaurant:

 

Customer: 'I'd like pasta please'

R*: 'We don't have pasta'

Customer: 'May I order spaghetti?'

R*: 'We do not have spaghetti either'

Customer: 'Well, how about lasagna?'

R*: 'We do not have lasagna either. But I see what you want, I will right back'

(R* returns with a bowl of raw potatoes)

R*: 'Here, this is what you really wanted. carbohydrates'

Customer: 'No, I wanted pasta or spaghetti, or even lasagna. I'll take risotto if you have any. And you don't eat potatoes raw, you cook them.'

R*: 'We don't have any of that, we only have these potatoes. This is what you are asking for, it's the same thing, carbohydrates'

Customer: 'No, I want something I like, such as pasta.'

R*: 'I'll see what I can do'

(R* disappears for a while, then returns)

R*: 'Good news, I spoke to our chef... he has agreed to bake your potatoes for you. Please enjoy your carbohydrates'

Haha. This is brilliant. So true. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
blackwolfred
8 hours ago, miahus said:

I will assume you are replying to me, even though you didn't quote me.

Care bear is a gaming term and I didn't mean to offend anyone by it, but it does refers to players that don't want to have anything to do with PVP at all.

I mainly play free roam, I hunt, gather herbs, fish...do all the necessary things to make money and have ingredients to craft tonics, baits, ammo, horse medicine and stimulants...etc. Once in a while I will have to deal with aggressive players aka "low skill griefers" that come after me for no reason, kill them over and over until they leave the session. If I am hunting and a posse with a mission I can interfere with is close by, I will go for it since it gives money and xp and is a good change of pace. If I am targeted for assassination, I will pull all the info on the assassin and deal accordingly either by going straight for them or hunkering down in a homestead. I do enjoy these activities, but I don't really pursue them, it is all random and that's the beauty of it. I rarely touch pvp lobbies as I prefer open world sandbox style of play. So I don't know where do I fall exactly according to the dichotomy of pvper/pver crowds. I never asked for the game to be changed to a more hardcore mode, I simply pointed out the game is very safe and you have many tools to ensure your safety. I did point out the player base is too small right now for different style lobbies, such as pve or free aim, and that was the only explanation I could come up with on why R* didn't introduce as many lobbies yet, makes more sense than a conspiracy to make us buy more gold.

 

Earlier today, I had a player assassination mission, target was a part of a 3 man posse, target kept running away while the other 2 were trying to stop me, I killed 3 of them, mission is over, so I move on, they followed me to the next mission giver, started throwing dynamite and fire bottles at me while I was in the safe zone, I simply changed session and continued playing as if nothing happened because really nothing happened other than them losing money and materials throwing weapons at a player in passive mode. Some other players will choose to stay and play a waiting game with some idiots and then complain about griefers. 

If the player base is too small now, and that is why we aren’t getting separate lobbies.....If I use my friendslist as a sample size. We may never get them.... because the vast majority of my friends have stopped playing. And these people played GTA for years. And “ no” it’s not because we don’t have flying horses that shoot rockets out of their butts, it’s because of griefers and low content.

Edited by blackwolfred

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ektope
6 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

What's the difference with PvE? I'd be asking for PvE servers to be made harder with more difficult AI, more AI, less time for the same task etc. To make the experience more challenging. The last thing I want or most people want, is an easy mode.

And if PvE servers don't come? They weren't even there for normal GTA online free roam sessions. It would be mixture of PvE and PvP. The only thing closest to PvE would be playing in private or invite only. Fun 2 already mentioned it's there but locked out for moment. We just have to wait for it. The invite only and private sessions may come when the game comes out of beta stage. And let's not get started on whether it is or not...

 

As for making the AI harder, it's going to come eventually. For all I know, the enemies may use special ammo or express explosives. Express ammo could deal a lot of damage as well, that we may need health regeneration cards to endure them. At the moment, not many people may have levelled their cards up already. Those could come in the later story missions, which I see as PvE only. Gang hideouts are PvE only as well. But free roam stranger missions aren't only PvE, it's PvP as well. The way the stranger missions work at the moment, you may think the AI enemies aren't in great enough numbers and too easy to kill. But then the interfering players could come along to increase the difficulty. It was never PvE only to begin with. We could even come across multiple gang members or bandits in ned kelly armour, that forces us to use dynamites, fire bottles, dynamite arrows or express explosives. Just like the juggernauts from doomsday heist in GTA online. The ending of "one down, three (more) to go" was just the beginning, before we see harder AI content.

 

6 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

As far as PvP free roam, you can't make gameplay balances to effectively cater to PvE/PvP in the same environment, it doesn't work. You either over buff, over nerf or create NEW exploits or simply ruin the experience for one group or the other. Currently, it's not that fun to play PvE in a PvP session. Likewise, PvP isn't all that rewarding in free roam because the activities don't reward it.

 

It does work for a certain crowd that's okay with both PvP and PvE. Let's say 3x XP and $ money bonus came to stranger missions in free roam. I would happily grind stranger missions like I used to, with the element of PvP attacks. All the practice I had in showdown matches would eventually come in useful, as well as level unlocks, strategies, and the versatility of maxed out cards. It would be boring af if there wasn't enough challenge for me. And there already isn't when dealing with AI enemies. I could just go in with cattleman revolver and come out standing. So if anyone wanted to go up against a posse of level 100+, 200+ or 300+ minding their own business, game on. I couldn't really care less if we failed or lost the objective. I always moved on. We would then learn from mistakes and be more prepared next time. I do know PvP isn't rewarding in free roam. Unless you wait it out in free roam for the events to come up, like king of the castle and so on. Then actually winning 1st place with loads of kills. Or if you do collide with another player while in stranger missions and you still pass the mission, it may feel a bit more rewarding that you survived it out to pass.

 

7 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

Why can't the bounty hunters be HUMAN players chasing down the HUMAN griefer or maybe they dont grief, they're just an outlaw or thats what they are going for. That'd be more fun for the PvP crowd and mean players who like PvP, but not griefing can get in on the action.

So if bounty hunters can only be human players. Then PvE or invite only sessions alone wouldn't even have bounty hunters after you? It's like it would be exclusively for PvP or PvP / PvE sessions mixed together. The bounties doesn't have to be human players. It could be NPC AI bandits or gang leaders. Like with John Marston and Sadie Adler's encounter in the epilogue. And there would be other bounty hunters with similar interest in the same target. So those other bounty hunters could be human players. Then it's a fight over capturing a bounty and delivering them. I can only see this working in PvP sessions where players can interact with each other and kill each other. Perhaps bounty hunting in PvE should reward much less $ money than doing it in PvP sessions. Or the more bounty hunters in session, the higher the reward money. Like with sell missions in GTA online when delivering gunrunning cargo in full lobbies for bonus payouts.

 

7 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

Why not events in free roam where the bank or a coach is designated as a point of interest. High honour players have to defend, escort or protect it for x minutes while dishonourable players get x mins to destroy, capture or loot it.

 

This is what dynamic events could be. But if the dishonourable have to destroy the objective, it'll be easier for them with rolling block or carcano with express explosives rounds. Like an explosive sniper. Or dynamite arrows. If I was doing it in a posse, my posse status shows up as honourable. The other posses that I'm part of, have overall dishonourable status. So I can conclude that people who are trigger happy and with PvP experience, they may lean toward the dishonourable side. I'm one of the odd one out. And the hunters and peaceful players may be amongst the honourable side. If I had inexperienced PvP players on my side and experienced PvP players to fight against, I may just change to dishonourable instead. It's not supposed to work like that. I suspect that the dishonourable may have higher success rate than honourable. But if I have dishonourable members in my honourable posse and we all get assigned to honourable team, then I could live with it. After all, it would be boring to only have dishonourable attacking role. They should change around roles.

 

7 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

There's so much that can be done for PvE and PvP but lumping them together doesn't mean success, it means PvE'rs will complain every time they get shot at and PvP'ers will see more and more mechanics introduced that dull their gameplay experience and make it utterly boring.

 

I disagree with PvP'ers seeing more mechanics that dulls their gameplay. I think it expands the gameplay actually, and makes it more interesting. Besides, classifying players as either PvE or PvP isn't right. For all you know, someone may do both PvE and PvP contents. Like me for instance. I go where ever I can XP the fastest. Whether it PvE or PvP content. So which kind of player am I? PvP or PvE player? Or do I keep alternating? It would make much more sense to say, a player who does PvE content. Or does PvP content. I'm not exclusively one or the other.

 

7 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

 R* says 'easier to trigger parley'  so.. I die once, twice I can do it?  So you can kill the hunter, have him lose his/her pelts. You griefed them, they parley... no more PvP fun.. time to ride around for another 20 mins until you see a blip :/    lose/lose

 

I think they'll either let you parley any time like in passive mode in GTA online. Or even parley after one to two deaths, like you've said. But who even likes griefers? You don't have to care about them, if they can't find fun in the game.

 

7 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

My chief complaint about how R* is responding to feedback is they are as always, not listening and not giving us what we want. They are telling us 'you really wanted THIS when you asked for THAT'

 

I'm sure they do. Or they summarise the most common complaints or feedback. The ones I've sent were about bugs in the game. They all got fixed, the special snake oil and hunker down not activating damage reduction. But the hat not respawning, hasn't. I'm just adjusting around that. Some may be asking for too much. There's already the parley change coming, and bounty hunting. Which is what some people on here requested for. But the rest, I don't even know about it. There's thousands or millions of players, but they can't add everything.

 

7 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

As a demonstration/comparison as to how R* responds to customers.

 

The customer should just cook at home. It's only a matter of time before we see the first modders in RDO community. I already get people sending me messaging about mod menus or using hacks. But I'm not a real one, to actually modify contents in this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
blackwolfred

I have already encountered a guy who was invisible.He was griefing a friend of mine, so I spawned in to see. He was invisible alright.... I messaged him to call him a “ cheater “ and he told me “ I’m in control here!” 🙄😆

Edited by blackwolfred

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pocket Fox
1 hour ago, Ektope said:

The customer should just cook at home. It's only a matter of time before we see the first modders in RDO community. I already get people sending me messaging about mod menus or using hacks. But I'm not a real one, to actually modify contents in this game.

Don't take the analogy, literally.

 

Also, if I could create private servers, I would. But I can't on console, and I'd imagine any attempt to do so would see R* banning my account and most likely Microsoft banning my console as they do not want people to modify them or how they function.

Also, a restaurant telling customers to cook at home and not buy their food, would go out of business. I've said somewhere in other threads, you cannot monetise players who aren't playing your game. And while we can't see the number of players in RDRO, youtube video views, this forum views and twitch views tell the story - it's not a popular title right now.

 

Honestly, f*ck me for paying 150 for the game, 150 for gold and 7.50 for special gold and expecting that when R* asks me for feedback it was an honest effort on their part. 

I ask for private servers. How dare I. Like this is the most egregious thing I could ask for. Just like in Sea of Thieves, gasp, you want, solo servers or pve? Then this game isn't for you. Okay, so I refund the game and get my 100 dollars back and don't play it anymore and don't buy whatever microtransactions they distributed. How's that game? Dead?

 

I guess I'm just an under monetised bitch who provided feedback that was downright insulting to the shareholders of Take Two interactive. 

 

I think I'll send R* support an email and ask them directly, do they want me playing the game and spending money on it, yes or no? Because apparently this game isn't for me, I should go make my own game, or get good internet, or git gud or stop making outlandish requests, like asking for features present in GTAO and RDR1. 

 

I'm out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miahus
17 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

 

If R* ran an Italian restaurant:

 

Customer: 'I'd like pasta please'

R*: 'We don't have pasta'

Customer: 'May I order spaghetti?'

R*: 'We do not have spaghetti either'

 

Spaghetti is pasta. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IceD34ler

The thing is: their Game Design is all over the place. They want to provide everything at once and fail to please both audiences in equal measure, PvE and PvP players.

 

PvE players can hunt, fish, do stranger missions. There are no games to play with friends (poker etc.), no random encounters, basically they stripped away a lot of the fun activities from the SP. All of this while the... 

 

PvP players can roam around and kill people but the rewards for doing so are basically non-existent. Heck, in a game where you are supposed to play an outlaw you cannot even LOOT another player for cash (Monetization, anyone ?). And the real cash for PvPers lies in generic Game Modes anyways which don't even take place in the huge open world they provide - DM, TDM, stuff we had for over 15 years ago in Unreal Tournament and Quake. Tell me, as a PvP player, how long do you actually play in the open world and how long are you sitting in lobbies on separate servers? Are you still playing an open world multiplayer game, huh ? Not to mention this throws away the immersion completely.

 

All of this mixed together and there you have it: a half baked Cowboy Simulator, inconsistent and not focused on what really could make this a true Outlaw experience for both audiences.

It easily could be one of the best Multiplayer Experiences ever created. And that's not an exaggeration. But as Pocket Fox and others already said, their Monetization model interferes with the ability to create an innovative and fun gaming experience too!

 

Then they create very complicated and weird side-systems, parley, that shall solve apparent issues like the all time visible blips (which is btw. one of the most unthoughtful and lazy game design decisions ever made in a Multiplayer Environment imho). These systems are not only kinda "hacky" they can also be abused easily and don't make any sense in a realistic environment, dumping any kind of immersion. (unless all characters of 1899 had an iPhone and were trackable by everyone for no reason, I didn't know that...I apologize) Parley ends up in invulnerable players jumping on and stealing your horse, riding you over while their buddies kill you multiple times, and you can't do nothing. If you introduce such artificial systems these will undergo many many revisions most likely before they can be called "fun" or "working". Complicated for no reason. They basically try to counter one bad game system (visible blips) with another bad one (parley), both requiring balancing and testing. And guess which systems get an overhaul in the next months ? Parley and blips.

 

It gets even funnier. PvE players spend hours to hunt and once they wanna sell their stuff a random PvP griefer appears and kills you not for the reward(!) but for the fun of it -> you eventually end up losing all your progress while dying and the PvPer got what, like 5XP? So you ruined one PvE player's experience while not even enhancing the PvPers experience. If the PvPer could at least sell these pelts now and the PvP friends of the PvE player who lost everything could get the money back by tracking and hunting this guy down, that would be cool wouldn't it? But no, generic/castrated systems, generic/castrated experience.

 

I don't even know what to say. I mean, R*, there are some steps you should take first before you release such a mess.

 

- Decide what experience you want for both PvE and PvP players. What is the most fun for both player types? And we are not talking about Monetization yet.

- Create these sandboxy situations where exactly things like that happen. Random players do random stuff in the random world, then other random players interfere. Give us the most freedom possible, let us loot them, find out what gives us the most satisfaction we can have in a game where we can be an outlaw in the Wild West of 1899.

- don't add wallhacks in the first place, try to think of actual creative ways to force player interaction if you think the world size is an issue - maybe some things 1000 other games out there already do with similar size (dayz, which has 225km² uses military camps?)

Then you won't have to add artificial "regulation" systems like parley in the first place (that have to be balanced and tested) if PvErs always have the chance to hide. Heck, why would I hunt stealthily with a poisoined bow when everyone has a freaking wallhack?! I don't need to UNLOCK this sh** for christ sake.

 

There are so many issues and I can only imagine there are very inexperienced Game Designers in charge right now. They have a gold mine right there but neither do they have the tools nor the knowledge on how to dig the freaking gold!

World of Warcraft, a game released in 2004, had both PvE and PvP servers from the start. And many other games give us the choice. And that's neccessary. Because some people prefer Co-op/PvE to PvP.

 

For me, with just a few changes they could turn this into something I could take serious. Something I could really spend time on. But there is just no motivation. No cool sandboxy things that could happen. I cannot hide in a bush (no lay down feature, nope) and snipe a player who wants to rob a PvE base - on the other side I can't hunt this "camper" for my loot to get everything back. And maybe get his weapon and horse to sell too. It's all restricted to oblivion and beyond. I'm done with this.

 

 

Oh and AA and non-AA players in the same world ? Really, R*, really ? R*, since our characters can only whistle, please add at least 2 lines for both male and female characters to the game when I try to loot a player. Something like: "I...I see this player has a lot of cash and items but...no I...I don't want to upset him...I...I think I let it be...I mean I can buy gold with Euros anyways".

Edited by IceD34ler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ektope
5 hours ago, IceD34ler said:

PvE players can hunt, fish, do stranger missions. There are no games to play with friends (poker etc.), no random encounters, basically they stripped away a lot of the fun activities from the SP. All of this while the... 

 

They also have story missions. More will be coming. The land of opportunities and more contacts.

 

5 hours ago, IceD34ler said:

PvP players can roam around and kill people but the rewards for doing so are basically non-existent. Heck, in a game where you are supposed to play an outlaw you cannot even LOOT another player for cash (Monetization, anyone ?). And the real cash for PvPers lies in generic Game Modes anyways which don't even take place in the huge open world they provide - DM, TDM, stuff we had for over 15 years ago in Unreal Tournament and Quake. Tell me, as a PvP player, how long do you actually play in the open world and how long are you sitting in lobbies on separate servers? Are you still playing an open world multiplayer game, huh ? Not to mention this throws away the immersion completely.

 

I've been invited to persistent posses where people wanted to do posse vs posse fights in free roam. So killing loads of rival posse members could yield a lot of XP, but not much gold or $ money. There's free roam events too which pays well if get 1st place. Just playing on the maps; tumbleweed, annesburg, rhodes, saint denis, blackwater, tall trees and heartland oil fields in showdown matches actually improves familiarity with those towns. I hadn't explored those areas much but when I go there in free roam, I literally know the area like the back of my hand. Why should there be a massive whole map scale hostile territory where you gotta capture the whole of blackwater, rhodes, saint denis, tumbleweed and so on? It's too big. It's too massive and out of bounds. So that's why the game modes are restricted to a single area and to encourage more killing between players. Can you imagine an entire map scale most wanted? The distance to travel to each other is too big. I spend roughly one or two minutes in lobby and waiting screens, then 6 to 7 minutes in the match. That is completely okay and fine by me. It means I get a short break. This is still an open world multiplayer game, regardless of whatever activity we are doing. We can travel around places, on foot or horse, there's lots to explore.

 

5 hours ago, IceD34ler said:

Then they create very complicated and weird side-systems, parley, that shall solve apparent issues like the all time visible blips (which is btw. one of the most unthoughtful and lazy game design decisions ever made in a Multiplayer Environment imho). These systems are not only kinda "hacky" they can also be abused easily and don't make any sense in a realistic environment, dumping any kind of immersion. (unless all characters of 1899 had an iPhone and were trackable by everyone for no reason, I didn't know that...I apologize) Parley ends up in invulnerable players jumping on and stealing your horse, riding you over while their buddies kill you multiple times, and you can't do nothing. If you introduce such artificial systems these will undergo many many revisions most likely before they can be called "fun" or "working". Complicated for no reason. They basically try to counter one bad game system (visible blips) with another bad one (parley), both requiring balancing and testing. And guess which systems get an overhaul in the next months ? Parley and blips.

 

If you wanted immersion, you could simply turn off map radar in settings. There you go. I used to turn off map radar and played first person when I got bored of GTA online. Then it was a completely immersive experience. It's within your reach, really.

 

5 hours ago, IceD34ler said:

It gets even funnier. PvE players spend hours to hunt and once they wanna sell their stuff a random PvP griefer appears and kills you not for the reward(!) but for the fun of it -> you eventually end up losing all your progress while dying and the PvPer got what, like 5XP? So you ruined one PvE player's experience while not even enhancing the PvPers experience. If the PvPer could at least sell these pelts now and the PvP friends of the PvE player who lost everything could get the money back by tracking and hunting this guy down, that would be cool wouldn't it? But no, generic/castrated systems, generic/castrated experience.

 

Animals, birds and fishes aren't enemies unless they have intention to hurt you. So ducks and birds aren't enemies. When I spawned in a session the other day, I saw a boar ahead of me. I was changing my weapons then I got smacked. I would consider that boar as an enemy then. Otherwise, the predators like cougars, wolves, bears and alligators could be enemies as well. But not only people who do PvE content do hunting and fishing. The people who fight other players, they also do hunting and fishing sometimes. Even when I back out of showdown matches, I go and do hunting for meat. Am I now a PvP or PvE player? Seriously, people keep messing up with these terms. All I can say about other players interfering with hunting and fishing, is that the victims should learn to defend themselves. That's an advice there. Otherwise, we just gotta wait for private or invite only sessions to come.

 

5 hours ago, IceD34ler said:

- don't add wallhacks in the first place, try to think of actual creative ways to force player interaction if you think the world size is an issue - maybe some things 1000 other games out there already do with similar size (dayz, which has 225km² uses military camps?)

 

It's probably a glitch. They wouldn't add wall hacks intentionally.

 

5 hours ago, IceD34ler said:

 Then you won't have to add artificial "regulation" systems like parley in the first place (that have to be balanced and tested) if PvErs always have the chance to hide. Heck, why would I hunt stealthily with a poisoined bow when everyone has a freaking wallhack?! I don't need to UNLOCK this sh** for christ sake.

 

For me, with just a few changes they could turn this into something I could take serious. Something I could really spend time on. But there is just no motivation. No cool sandboxy things that could happen. I cannot hide in a bush (no lay down feature, nope) and snipe a player who wants to rob a PvE base - on the other side I can't hunt this "camper" for my loot to get everything back. And maybe get his weapon and horse to sell too. It's all restricted to oblivion and beyond. I'm done with this.

When I do hunting with poisoned arrow, it's always in the wild where there aren't walls around. So I don't really understand where you are hunting. And how someone can be near, to even do wall hack. The only one I've seen was in saint denis. And alligators are further away. Wall hacks aren't even unlocked anyway. It's glitched somehow. All it takes is research and knowledge. I don't even know how to do it myself and not bothered looking it up. I would think the right word for that is wall breach. Because I'm pretty sure there's no hacking or modding tools for RDO anyway yet.

 

Some of the weapons in this game are expensive. I wouldn't wanna lose a $600.00 or even $1,200.00 for dual wielding mausers. Or even more than that, because I've upgraded mine. I own nearly all the weapons so far, fully upgraded. This will be stupid to lose 'em, even though I know it would be more realistic.

Edited by Ektope

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IceD34ler
2 hours ago, Ektope said:

They also have story missions. More will be coming. The land of opportunities and more contacts.

Yes, they add more content. Which is good. But frankly the content is not the problem here. How long will they last for? 3-7 hours max.? If they want a lasting experience they should fix all the other systems I mentioned before. To enrich an open world you need random events so that your playing experience will always be something new, or at least kinda new. That's what makes the game fresh and keeps people remain online.

 

2 hours ago, Ektope said:

I've been invited to persistent posses where people wanted to do posse vs posse fights in free roam. So killing loads of rival posse members could yield a lot of XP, but not much gold or $ money. There's free roam events too which pays well if get 1st place. Just playing on the maps; tumbleweed, annesburg, rhodes, saint denis, blackwater, tall trees and heartland oil fields in showdown matches actually improves familiarity with those towns. I hadn't explored those areas much but when I go there in free roam, I literally know the area like the back of my hand. Why should there be a massive whole map scale hostile territory where you gotta capture the whole of blackwater, rhodes, saint denis, tumbleweed and so on? It's too big. It's too massive and out of bounds. So that's why the game modes are restricted to a single area and to encourage more killing between players. Can you imagine an entire map scale most wanted? The distance to travel to each other is too big. I spend roughly one or two minutes in lobby and waiting screens, then 6 to 7 minutes in the match. That is completely okay and fine by me. It means I get a short break. This is still an open world multiplayer game, regardless of whatever activity we are doing. We can travel around places, on foot or horse, there's lots to explore.

These free roam events are a step into the right direction but far from what the game could provide. I don't consider it fun if I spawn outside of a town, get one-shotted by a player who spawned just before me and waits at the next rock. Rinse repeat. If I make it to town, there will be another player just waiting at the corner of a barn and thanks to the ridiculous AA this guy kills me again. If I'm lucky with the spawn, yes, I can get some kills, but that's all there is. There is no real difference to the showdown series other than the objectives. Some players might enjoy that mess, I don't. I would prefer event areas on the map without having blips, where the loot can be acquired by being either stealthy and slow or fast and brutal. Where I can be hunted down for the loot, or try to ambush another posse on the way back to their camp. Way more variety, way more interesting gameplay. It's just to casual.

 

2 hours ago, Ektope said:

If you wanted immersion, you could simply turn off map radar in settings. There you go. I used to turn off map radar and played first person when I got bored of GTA online. Then it was a completely immersive experience. It's within your reach, really.

The immersion that I miss is the thrill of never knowing where someone might be. Sneaking up on someone/something, surprise attacks, surprise ambushes, it's all not possible because of the "wallhack" we get with always visible player blips. You just open the map and know exactly were everyone is, just like it was back in 1899, right ?

 

2 hours ago, Ektope said:

Animals, birds and fishes aren't enemies unless they have intention to hurt you. So ducks and birds aren't enemies. When I spawned in a session the other day, I saw a boar ahead of me. I was changing my weapons then I got smacked. I would consider that boar as an enemy then. Otherwise, the predators like cougars, wolves, bears and alligators could be enemies as well. But not only people who do PvE content do hunting and fishing. The people who fight other players, they also do hunting and fishing sometimes. Even when I back out of showdown matches, I go and do hunting for meat. Am I now a PvP or PvE player? Seriously, people keep messing up with these terms. All I can say about other players interfering with hunting and fishing, is that the victims should learn to defend themselves. That's an advice there. Otherwise, we just gotta wait for private or invite only sessions to come.

 

I'm not sure why you explain the difference between aggressive and non-aggressive critters here. Yes they attack you on sight and are indeed enemies, but still they are not controlled by players and this activity is still considered Player versus Environment (and everything that inhabits that environment). Players can indeed fight both the Environment and other players and have to sometimes. But there are also a lot of people not interested in any PvP action. My point was that for whatever reason pelts can dissapear if you die too far away from your horse. And thanks to the blips every player knows when you are going to sell it.

 

2 hours ago, Ektope said:

It's probably a glitch. They wouldn't add wall hacks intentionally.

 

When I do hunting with poisoned arrow, it's always in the wild where there aren't walls around. So I don't really understand where you are hunting. And how someone can be near, to even do wall hack. The only one I've seen was in saint denis. And alligators are further away. Wall hacks aren't even unlocked anyway. It's glitched somehow. All it takes is research and knowledge. I don't even know how to do it myself and not bothered looking it up. I would think the right word for that is wall breach. Because I'm pretty sure there's no hacking or modding tools for RDO anyway yet.

The always visible blips are the "wallhacks". Sorry for not explaining what I mean with "wallhacks".

 

2 hours ago, Ektope said:

Some of the weapons in this game are expensive. I wouldn't wanna lose a $600.00 or even $1,200.00 for dual wielding mausers. Or even more than that, because I've upgraded mine. I own nearly all the weapons so far, fully upgraded. This will be stupid to lose 'em, even though I know it would be more realistic.

Of course they would have to rework the entire item system in the game. Maybe these upgrades need to be unlocked once and the actual parts for it are much cheaper.

 

Edited by IceD34ler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psymin

I play pretty regularly and I rarely get killed for no reason.

 

I like the danger of everyone being together, as I usually stick to myself anyway.

 

I am VERY much looking forward to the player-blip change. I think a lot of the random grief people encounter will decrease. I also heard a rumour that matchmaking takes into account your honor level. not sure if it's true? but I could account for my lack of harassment. 

 

 

I hope they add friend/crew indicators as well. 

Edited by psymin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ghoffman9
On 1/10/2019 at 7:50 PM, Pocket Fox said:

Just add more AI threats. I haven't played GTAO with another human being for over a year now. If I was forced to play with others, I simply wouldn't even bother playing at all.

Amazingly, I also refunded Sea of Thieves for the same crap. Forced pvp open world. The issue by forcing pve/pvp together is that neither side gets a good experience and pve'ers usually get the worse end of it.

 

PvP in SoT was boring af! Some players sailed away or you had to sail for like 30 mins to get in ONE fight. Zzzzzz

PvE was sailing for 30 mins, digging up something, and then your ship being sunk while you're in a cave on an island. Zzzzz

 

PvE/PvP forced lobbies is gaming devs being too lazy to program or design threats or gamemodes.

 

It's pretty obvious when there's no reward other than a mental buzz dipsh*ts get when they grief someone. As evident by tools on this forum bragging about killing defenseless players who had a full horse of pelts.... congrats, you got 20xp... the same as if they had just spawned in and roughly the same xp you get for a kill vs an AI with hipfire and special ammo NO REWARD other than being a dick.

 

PvE'rs meanwhile keep spawning into New Austin so it's populated only there, then fast travel to the far reaches of the map to do stranger missions and hunt solo and be alone.

 

So neither crowd is really being catered for here. No PvE lobby and lack of PvE content. PvP doesn't reward you beyond a pittance of xp and the actual PvP modes feel last minute thrown together.

 

Lazy  game development. Make friendly/private lobbies for the pve'ers and for pvp free-roam, add more reward for both killing and avoiding being killed by players. 

 

Make some actual content for once rather than half ass pve, half ass pvp and throwing them together hoping that'll somehow turn into a quality experience.

That and make it so that you can do story missions alone or with whoever you decide to bring along, not the game.

I am gonna have an aneurysm if one more newbie fails to lasso one of Crawfish's men, I swear it. I been holding out thus far hoping this changes, but if this is how things are going to be indefinitely, with randoms being forced upon you, then I am out. Thats a deal breaker for me. Being forced to work with others and then being punished for mistakes those randoms frequently make, that is just taking it too far. That is something I cannot tolerate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hunterrrr
On 1/12/2019 at 9:53 AM, Pocket Fox said:

Don't take the analogy, literally.

 

Also, if I could create private servers, I would. But I can't on console, and I'd imagine any attempt to do so would see R* banning my account and most likely Microsoft banning my console as they do not want people to modify them or how they function.

Also, a restaurant telling customers to cook at home and not buy their food, would go out of business. I've said somewhere in other threads, you cannot monetise players who aren't playing your game. And while we can't see the number of players in RDRO, youtube video views, this forum views and twitch views tell the story - it's not a popular title right now.

 

Honestly, f*ck me for paying 150 for the game, 150 for gold and 7.50 for special gold and expecting that when R* asks me for feedback it was an honest effort on their part. 

I ask for private servers. How dare I. Like this is the most egregious thing I could ask for. Just like in Sea of Thieves, gasp, you want, solo servers or pve? Then this game isn't for you. Okay, so I refund the game and get my 100 dollars back and don't play it anymore and don't buy whatever microtransactions they distributed. How's that game? Dead?

 

I guess I'm just an under monetised bitch who provided feedback that was downright insulting to the shareholders of Take Two interactive. 

 

I think I'll send R* support an email and ask them directly, do they want me playing the game and spending money on it, yes or no? Because apparently this game isn't for me, I should go make my own game, or get good internet, or git gud or stop making outlandish requests, like asking for features present in GTAO and RDR1. 

 

I'm out.

I'm right there with you. Haven't played since Dec 19. 

 

I have already sent a similar email to R* and they told me to use an alternate source of internet, which is laughable. 

 

I would like to know if your reply is similar, please post what they say. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smokewood
On 1/11/2019 at 9:53 PM, miahus said:

kill them over and over until they leave the session

Not interested in this.

I cannot be bothered.

I don't want someone else dictating what I can or cannot do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
johnpolo

I think if you shoot a man in the back while he's fishing, you should be flagged with the title of a "yellow-bellied coward" and have an instant bounty put on your head. Filth!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DentureDynamite
On 1/10/2019 at 7:50 PM, Pocket Fox said:

[snip]

It's pretty obvious when there's no reward other than a mental buzz dipsh*ts get when they grief someone. As evident by tools on this forum bragging about killing defenseless players who had a full horse of pelts.... congrats, you got 20xp... the same as if they had just spawned in and roughly the same xp you get for a kill vs an AI with hipfire and special ammo NO REWARD other than being a dick.

 

PvE'rs meanwhile keep spawning into New Austin so it's populated only there, then fast travel to the far reaches of the map to do stranger missions and hunt solo and be alone.

 

So neither crowd is really being catered for here. No PvE lobby and lack of PvE content. PvP doesn't reward you beyond a pittance of xp and the actual PvP modes feel last minute thrown together.

 

Lazy  game development. Make friendly/private lobbies for the pve'ers and for pvp free-roam, add more reward for both killing and avoiding being killed by players. 

 

Make some actual content for once rather than half ass pve, half ass pvp and throwing them together hoping that'll somehow turn into a quality experience.

Very good points--especially when you can get 20 XP for just standing in most any part of RDO and shooting two passing Ravens out of the sky.

 

Rockstar will quite literally have to get over themselves, their infamous micromanagement of open world gaming, lame pre-fab game modes, and rethink their system of monetization if they want RDO to get off the ground.

Edited by DentureDynamite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.