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Ryder wasn't meant to betray Grove Street (Real OG )

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Theory: Ryder wasn't supposed to betray Grove Street; Big Smoke was meant to be the only traitor, but something happened and Rockstar changed their mind.


I know this topic has been mentioned before but it seems like a lot of people don't care, because they don't like Ryder, because he's "mean" because IDK I'd be mean to someone if we grew up together and were really close then their brother died and they did nothing to help and they moved 2700 miles away for 5 years when we needed him the most whilst I became addicted to drugs and my gang influence collapsed and more friends were killed. Also I think my first evidence point has had the cutscene talked about but not that specific point. 

(Ryder and CJ They laugh about going to school together, they lived next door etc. (Lot's of people have a "mean friend")) Anyway:




*During Green Sabre CJ SEES Ryder and Smoke rolling with the ballas...but only comments on Smoke when he actually sees Ryder FIRST

*That cutscene shows Ryder's hand glitching over Smoke when opening the door as if he was added after. That cutscene also has Ryder stood smoking away from Tenpenny who is talking to Smoke. Ryder's main animation is pulling the door open where Smoke would be able to open it himself


*Ryder's missions involve obtaining weaponry for the Grove. Compare this to Big Smoke's where they don't benefit the Grove at all


*The PC version prologue video was made AFTER the game was finished AND in the cutscene where CJ's + Sweet's mother is murdered, Ryder can be seen shooting back at the green Sabre.


*In all his post-betrayal appearances, Ryder has only two spoken lines, in Pier 69 where he dies. 
1. "C...Can't stop me..." - Ryder sounds injured but says this BEFORE you attack him. Maybe he was meant to die when CJ + Sweet held of the Ballas and would have said this then.
2. "I'm a motherf*cking genius!" - Ryder says something like this earlier in the game


*Ryder is surprised and mad that Smoke doesn't shoot back during Drive-By

*Ryder stayed living at the grove


*After Green Sabre, CJ only comments on Smoke's betrayal. He never mentions Ryder's name again until the mission where you kill him (Pier 69)

*Cesar abruptly said that Ryder once tried to force himself on CJ's + Sweet's sister. You honestly think Sweet would let that go if it were true? If he didn't know and it was, there's no reason she wouldn't tell him.


*Unlike Smoke, Ryder shows no suspicious behaviour prior to his betrayal


*For those of you who think Sweet + CJ wouldn't mention him again is because he was mean and on drugs is a weak argument. He grew up with them, they went to school together. They live next door. A lot of people are/know the "mean friend". 


Possible Explanations:

1. Ryder was originally meant to die when CJ + Sweet fended off the waves of Ballas. This would have created a good dynamic of: "the mean one" stays loyal and dies at your side (Ryder) when the "nice one" betrays you (Smoke). CJ has almost lost another brother (Sweet) who is injured and arrested. Ryder being present there and you see him would make it seem like the OG grove street bros are even more damaged beyond repair.


2. Ryder's voice actor MC Eiht fell out w/ Rockstar. (Not surprising when Tommy Vercetti's and Niko's did the same) so they decided to use a generic voice line and an unfitting one in Pier 69 where he is unceremoniously killed off to not be mentioned significantly again. For those of you who think Ryder was a "minor" character then..play the game again. Major presence in the beginning deserved a better to be killed off, look at one of the first pages of the Xbox manual, the 4 of them in a police database. Rockstar cared at some point


Extreme speculation with no ground any truth:
 Ryder could have lived and stayed on the Grove's side if for instance he went to rehab due to CJ's concern or something and came back to help at the end.


Part 2: Ryder was your OG friend
For those of you who hate Ryder for being mean to CJ, first of all a lot of people have the one friend who is mean. He gives CJ "some homie love" a hug. They laugh about school. 

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Evil empire

This topic has already been talked about at least 1000 times.

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I saw a video explaining the story of sa having something to do with conspiracy

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4 hours ago, MC UberXYB said:

Extreme speculation with no ground any truth:
 Ryder could have lived and stayed on the Grove's side if for instance he went to rehab due to CJ's concern or something and came back to help at the end.

The same with Big Bear although he was just a simple side character. There really could have been a lot more interesting characters here. Just R* silly choices here tbh. Big Bear i get, but as I said over hundred times Ryder would have made an excellent road dog to take down Big Smoke at the end. Or even just have him at the last cutscene once Tenpenny died from that firetruck accident where all the remaining characters were standing.

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lil weasel

So what?

The game is published, and what might have been is not.

The game has been played for over TEN Years, so who cares.

I personally find all this hoopla is worthless. I am satisfied with the game as originally published. I do not find any necessity to "explain" the story nor expand it.



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I know a lot of people hate Ryder for being mean to CJ, but I never had a problem with it. They're just insults. So what? There are other characters that have done a lot worse to CJ. The worst Ryder's ever done to CJ was betray him. I hardly see how insulting someone else = not their friend. What about Brian and Stewie from Family Guy? Or Dan and Chris from Dan vs? There have been friends that have insulted each other and crack some jokes about each other. If anything, this actually made CJ's relationship with Ryder far more complex. And let's be honest here, CJ is pretty whiny and needs some criticism to fix it.


Anyways, there's not really much I can say about this topic that hasn't already been said before.

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