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Furi0sa

Why I still love GTA 3

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Furi0sa

I wrote a steam review a while back and I expressed why this game has aged so well below. I bought the Kubrick set the other day and have had the game on my mind lately, especially with playing rdr2 non stop for 2 months. Anyway happy new year, maybe we can discuss why gta 3 still kicks ass almost 20 years later?

 

"The most nihilistic game of all time, far more than the other GTA games. Claude is a silent protagonist, all that is known is Claude is a convict who's only real motivation is revenge. You as the player have no allegiance to anyone, you betray your bosses and have no sympathy who you hurt or steal from. Later GTA characters like Trevor, Niko, and Tommy all had real motivation behind their misdeeds that surprisingly went beyond just mayhem and therian lies the true beauty of GTA 3. Not once is the main character shown expressing any source of emotion or empathy. That ♥♥♥♥ing snake without a tongue quite literally steps over corpses of main characters to get to his next payday and will play any group against each other for his own gain.

Grand Theft Auto 3 is a sociopathic dream, all of the satire on the radio still holds a mirror to a technologically obsessed society of narcissistic reality tv addicts. Hell, you even end up killing the female lead Maria after spending 500k to get to her because she had some annoying dialogue. GTA 3 changed gaming forever and it did so with the player being an instrument of true evil.

Take a 1000 mg of Equanox, crank the Rise FM and butcher some Columbians with 8 Ball in your bullet proof Cheetah already."

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GTAFanLuca

I've never seen the game so deeply as a sociopath's dream ; that view is truly mind-blowing actually. The satire is golden, and it was just as good carried over to Vice City, San Andreas and Liberty City Stories. 

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Furi0sa
16 hours ago, GTAFanLuca said:

I've never seen the game so deeply as a sociopath's dream ; that view is truly mind-blowing actually. The satire is golden, and it was just as good carried over to Vice City, San Andreas and Liberty City Stories. 

Yeah playing as the "bad guy" is so common place in 2018 but in 2001 it was quite fresh. They kind of mastered it as claude isn't a half measure like other characters like CJ where hes a ruthless killer but also sympathetic, characters like Tommy, Trevor, and Claude work better in rockstar's bile filled universe.

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Hmmm nice bike

In a way, it almost makes Claude one of the most evil protagonists, and one who gives the least f*cks. Even Trevor had things he cared about even though he was pushed as "the biggest psycho ever" by everyone. Claude murdered Kenji even after he did work for him, and he had no problem with doing more work for Asuka. Some might attribute it to just lazy writing, but even if it was, it certainly makes Claude look like he's really got some nerve on him to even show up to Asuka's after killing her brother.

 

Killing Maria pretty much made the entire final mission pointless, too. All that trouble he went through, just to shoot her. Unless his prime motivation was to kill Catalina, and he figured looking like he wanted to rescue Maria was just an easier way of getting to what he really wanted to do.

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SonOfLiberty

I still love GTA III's dark and brooding atmosphere. In many ways it feels like a blueprint for Manhunt and The Warriors.

 

With regards to Claude he's basically the GTA equivalent of Michael Myers. A silent killing machine who wont stop for no one, but that's what I like about him.

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Furi0sa
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Hmmm nice bike said:

In a way, it almost makes Claude one of the most evil protagonists, and one who gives the least f*cks. Even Trevor had things he cared about even though he was pushed as "the biggest psycho ever" by everyone. Claude murdered Kenji even after he did work for him, and he had no problem with doing more work for Asuka. Some might attribute it to just lazy writing, but even if it was, it certainly makes Claude look like he's really got some nerve on him to even show up to Asuka's after killing her brother.

 

Killing Maria pretty much made the entire final mission pointless, too. All that trouble he went through, just to shoot her. Unless his prime motivation was to kill Catalina, and he figured looking like he wanted to rescue Maria was just an easier way of getting to what he really wanted to do.

Getting to Catalina was definitely the motivation behind the mission. Shooting Maria at the end is such a huge f*ck you of an ending, I love it. With how anti conservative, nihilistic, and cynical rockstars gta series are its a bit amazing they're some of the most mainstream games in video game history. If it wasn't for GTA Online's shameless corporate greed I'd consider Rockstar the punk rock of video gaming but that's clearly not true haha.

 

Not sure if this is the general consensus but GTA 3's graphic novel style graphics hold up better than vice city/san andreas.

Edited by scotthedge12

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Hmmm nice bike
2 minutes ago, scotthedge12 said:

Getting to Catalina was definitely the motivation behind the mission. Shooting Maria at the end is such a huge f*ck you of an ending, I love it. With how anti conservative, nihilistic, and cynical rockstars gta series are its a bit amazing they're some of the most mainstream games in video game history. If it wasn't for GTA Online's shameless corporate greed I'd consider Rockstar the punk rock of video gaming but that's clearly not true haha.

 

Not sure if this is the general consensus but GTA 3's graphical novel style graphics hold up better than vice city/san andreas.

Have you ever read the book "Jacked" by David Kushner? It goes into the history behind Rockstar from interviews with former staff and execs, and (going by what was described) when they first started the company up until sometime after Manhunt or San Andreas came out, I think they actually used to consider themselves the punk rockers of video gaming even. Of course, it's also easy to see how they went from being the "rebels" of the gaming industry to now being a perfect fit for the industry (partly because Sam Houser is kind of a huge jerk and it seems like he just got greedy and big-headed with time).

 

III did have a different graphic style compared to VC and SA, which started looking a bit more realistic in a way. I don't think I've ever seen it brought up before, but you're right about that, it was a much different looking game. I think it was definitely the GTA that had the darkest and most bleak atmosphere to it.

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Furi0sa
2 minutes ago, Hmmm nice bike said:

Have you ever read the book "Jacked" by David Kushner? It goes into the history behind Rockstar from interviews with former staff and execs, and (going by what was described) when they first started the company up until sometime after Manhunt or San Andreas came out, I think they actually used to consider themselves the punk rockers of video gaming even. Of course, it's also easy to see how they went from being the "rebels" of the gaming industry to now being a perfect fit for the industry (partly because Sam Houser is kind of a huge jerk and it seems like he just got greedy and big-headed with time).

 

III did have a different graphic style compared to VC and SA, which started looking a bit more realistic in a way. I don't think I've ever seen it brought up before, but you're right about that, it was a much different looking game. I think it was definitely the GTA that had the darkest and most bleak atmosphere to it.

Fascinating, I'll definitely check this book out. That "punk" feel is evident in their smaller games too like manhunt and thrasher skate and destroy. Even if they're jerks now they're my favorite gaming company, no one comes close.

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Hmmm nice bike
Just now, scotthedge12 said:

Fascinating, I'll definitely check this book out. That "punk" feel is evident in their smaller games too like manhunt and thrasher skate and destroy.

Definitely get the book sometime, it's a great read and offers loads of information that I didn't even know about previously.

 

That's kind of what I like about early Rockstar compared to how they are today, too. I don't think Thrasher was actually made by them, just published (kind of like how it was with the first Max Payne, where a company unrelated to them did most of the work), but when you look at every PS2 GTA title as well as games like Manhunt and Bully, they were clearly willing to experiment more with different types of games. Who else would have made a game where you're running from psychos and forced to brutally murder them, or where you're a kid causing mischief and defending yourself from bullies?

 

And for the record, I don't think all of Rockstar are jerks, but if the Glassdoor company reviews are anything to go by, they kind of need to work on improving some of the working conditions at their offices, their workplace culture seems kind of problematic. Though in the gaming industry, they aren't the sole company like that, either.

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Spectre "2K"

agree completely. Even with the slightly dated control GTA 3 is a timeless masterpiece.

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perennial

I got to appreciate the unique blend of seriousness and humor in GTA III. The radio station dialogues, pedestrians' quotes and even the pedestrian splatter sound effect are so over-the-top, yet the storyline remains the darkest in the series.

As for Maria, there is a theory that Claude just shot a warning shot in the air to make her shut up. Her ultimate fate remains a mystery.

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Lioshenka
Posted (edited)

Oh yes, one of my most favourite topics on which I accept no criticism from fans of the other games in the series :D

 

I love and still love GTA 3 for the following reasons:

- A very realistic, if not the most realistic, game in the series. Although lacking many features, it has a perfect balance between various aspects of the game for it to remain fun, and at the same time to keep that grim nature of a crime-ridden city. Little things like steam rising from manholes, music blaring from the high-rise blocks of flats - it all adds realism and helps you immerse into the game. It doesn't get boring the more you play it.

- Sounds. I could never fault GTA 3 in this aspect. I love occasionally to turn up the volume and walk through the Red Light district listening to the ambient sounds and enjoying the scenery, the cars, the sounds of the approaching train and pedestrians passing, looking at the skyline of the Staunton island.

- Mute protagonist. Although I don't particularly like him being mute, it adds an aspect of the game where instead of being given the character's voice you can imagine what he'd sound like, leaving a lot for imagination. He could be a baritone with a thick Norwegian accent for what we know! (but that's not how I imagine it)

- This is a personal reason - but the city resembles my home city a great deal. High-rise flats of various architecture styles, parks, a wide river and a quiet prom - it all feels like you're driving around a place that you grew up in.

- Music. Best stations of the series, though closely followed by stations in SA and VC, but given a small stations selection and that they are only about 20 minutes each, it amazes me what a great job R* did putting these together.

 

Overall the game is very relatable, and you can easily picture yourself in place of Claude parking that car in a garage before having a nap on that bed in his cosy little hideout.

Edited by Lioshenka

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Hmmm nice bike said:

Claude murdered Kenji even after he did work for him, and he had no problem with doing more work for Asuka. Some might attribute it to just lazy writing, but even if it was, it certainly makes Claude look like he's really got some nerve on him to even show up to Asuka's after killing her brother.

 

I can totally understand why he murdered Kenji. He was whiny all the time and didn't respect Claude's work. Unlike Donald Love. His sister on the other hand is one of the best if not the best R* female character in the series. I was genuinely sad of her death and once again Claude leaves her there and doesn't even seem bothered that she is dead after all she did for him. 

 

I replayed the game a couple of months ago and finally got 100% completion that I missed back in the day.(Those goddamn Rampages gave me hell) It was truly a nice ride. Despite IV's great job I still find the GTA III Liberty City far darker. It also captures the early 00s perfectly. There is no "dream" in this game. Even in IV till the end at least you "think" you might reach a dream but in GTA III you don't even have the illusion of it. Claude is running around the map the whole game taking jobs and he still lives in sh*thole places and pretty much every gang wants a piece of him. I agree the atmosphere is very similar to Manhunt and somewhat unique in comparison to other GTA games. I'm not a fan of silent protagonists but Claude is the exception. There's something about the way R* designed him that makes him so mysterious and appealing despite not talking a word and you just can't quite describe what it is. There's just a kind of "subtly" in Claude and the entire game and shall I say it still has the scariest mission of the series(Kingdom Come) which still creeps me the f*ck out. Special delivery! Special Delivery! Hahahaha! 

 

Some people can't play the 3D era games due to the outdated mechanics but I still visit them every now and then and have no problem playing. The controls are responsive and it's just a matter of getting used to it after playing a couple of hours. 

 

GTA III is a masterpiece which started all of this but it still somewhat feels "unique" despite being the "base" for the next games. Timeless masterpiece for the genre. 

 

*and Chatterbox is still my favorite talk station to this date. 

Edited by TheSantader25
Typos

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just do it bob1

Some people hate this game because Claude had zero character development throughout the entire game. Although that might be true, it does not change the awesomeness of the missions, the atmosphere, the soundtrack, and the fact that it was the first ever GTA game that I played. It has a special place in my heart. GTA 3 was an amazing game. It's kind of scary to think that they almost scrapped the game after the 9/11 attacks on the world trade center. 

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GrudgefromSanAndreas

When listening to Head Radio, MSX FM and Rise FM at night and cruise around some parts of Portland and Staunton i feel it has more of a nightclub vibe than tbogt. Or should i say, more nightlife

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Furi0sa
Posted (edited)

The old school trance on rise fm is fantastic and really takes me back to that era and being 15 year old :D 

 

Asuka is fantastic, when Claude gave zero f*cks over her death it surprised me more as an adult than when I was a teen just going around laughing at 8 ball's hands and killing pedestrians/hookers. The other GTA games are kiddy corner compared to the depravity 3 explores. GTA 3 releasing in the 9/11 era is crazy when you really think about it. Open world games were going to happen eventually with technology advancing in gaming but we got lucky to have the first 3d era one be this brilliant and pitch black in tone.

 

Probably an unpopular opinion but when I think of liberty city I think of 3's version and not 4's. 4 was made in an interesting era where visuals where certainly improving but the muted colors and character models still weren't quite there in terms of graphics so its a strange middle ground, would love to see 4 remastered.

 

Like the poster above mentioned 3 has no dream, you remain a goon living in scrubby ghettos/crappy places.  You're not moving up the hierarchy and the radio stations/satire feels especially negative in tone creating an oppressive take on American pop culture, 5 is probably the only one that rivals the mean spiritedness of 3 but clearly its more glitzy and approachable.

Edited by scotthedge12

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SonOfLiberty
7 hours ago, scotthedge12 said:

Probably an unpopular opinion but when I think of liberty city I think of 3's version and not 4's. 4 was made in an interesting era where visuals where certainly improving but the muted colors and character models still weren't quite there in terms of graphics so its a strange middle ground, would love to see 4 remastered.

I think GTA IV's rendtion is far superior when it comes down to design and feeling like a city that could exist in real life however GTA III's has the upperhand when it comes to artistic licencing and feeling like it's a crime ridden sh*thole full of gangs, pimps, drug dealers, muggers etc.

 

Alot of this is because the GTA III rendition is overtly stylised whereas with GTA IV R* wanted it to be more like NYC instead of a random mash up of East Coast cities like in GTA III. I love them both in different ways personally.

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Miamivicecity said:

I think GTA IV's rendtion is far superior when it comes down to design and feeling like a city that could exist in real life however GTA III's has the upperhand when it comes to artistic licencing and feeling like it's a crime ridden sh*thole full of gangs, pimps, drug dealers, muggers etc.

 

Alot of this is because the GTA III rendition is overtly stylised whereas with GTA IV R* wanted it to be more like NYC instead of a random mash up of East Coast cities like in GTA III. I love them both in different ways personally.

Tbh though I found the GTA III LC grittier. There was something about it that made it more isolating. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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SonOfLiberty
18 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

Tbh though I found the GTA III LC grittier. There was something about it that made it more isolating. 

Probably because Claude doesn't have that many allies. He's basically a felon living on the run in rundown apartments and manages to piss off most of the gangs in the city who will kill him on sight. With GTA IV despite its gritty exterior Niko can confide in the social circle he's established so he never really feels alone.

 

Threats encountered in the game world are far more subdued. Niko wont get gunned down randomly in the street unless he causes it first. It feels "safer", but I'd imagine this has more to with R*'s decision to make it more like late 00s NYC and wanting it to feel as believable as possible whereas GTA III wasn't bound as much and it gave R* more creative room to create a dangerous almost nightmarish city to partake in.

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gtafaninwest

III will always remain top of my most favorite games.

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Lioshenka
On 1/4/2019 at 9:51 PM, scotthedge12 said:

Probably an unpopular opinion but when I think of liberty city I think of 3's version and not 4's. 4 was made in an interesting era where visuals where certainly improving but the muted colors and character models still weren't quite there in terms of graphics so its a strange middle ground, would love to see 4 remastered.

GTA 3 is the only game I think of when I hear Liberty City.

 

GTA 4 usually only springs in mind when someone explicitly mentions it. I also get really frustrated when people say "I like LC because I can go to X or Y", and I sit there for a split second trying to figure out what they mean, before realising they are actually talking about the GTA 4's city, not GTA 3's.

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Samz707
On 1/4/2019 at 9:51 PM, scotthedge12 said:

The old school trance on rise fm is fantastic and really takes me back to that era and being 15 year old :D 

 

Asuka is fantastic, when Claude gave zero f*cks over her death it surprised me more as an adult than when I was a teen just going around laughing at 8 ball's hands and killing pedestrians/hookers. The other GTA games are kiddy corner compared to the depravity 3 explores. GTA 3 releasing in the 9/11 era is crazy when you really think about it. Open world games were going to happen eventually with technology advancing in gaming but we got lucky to have the first 3d era one be this brilliant and pitch black in tone.

 

Probably an unpopular opinion but when I think of liberty city I think of 3's version and not 4's. 4 was made in an interesting era where visuals where certainly improving but the muted colors and character models still weren't quite there in terms of graphics so its a strange middle ground, would love to see 4 remastered.

 

Like the poster above mentioned 3 has no dream, you remain a goon living in scrubby ghettos/crappy places.  You're not moving up the hierarchy and the radio stations/satire feels especially negative in tone creating an oppressive take on American pop culture, 5 is probably the only one that rivals the mean spiritedness of 3 but clearly its more glitzy and approachable.

I think of 3 as well, 4 simply has too much area and is forgettable aside from a few locations, 3's size, while arguably a little too small, means I can basically play 3/LCS almost without the radar when a mission/taxi level tells you where to go.

 

It's small size means that instead of big empty stretches of area. (GTA 5 is the worst for this.) everything is more detailed, there's a pick-up almost everywhere for something if you look hard enough.


I mean I do think more LCS's Liberty since it's the same map, but with more unique landmarks like the Bike Dealership for it's side missions.

 

GTA should go back to smaller maps, not as small as III but they should instead have most of the buildings be actually enterable, I liked how you could enter and rob the small stores in VCS and I'd love to see that extended. (Such as more unique stores/buying things from those stores, I guess a bit like the Stores in GTA Online.)

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FadeAway

I love lll. It was the first to step away from the aerial view and set up for future games. While the atmosphere and tone is dark the satire is there as well through the radio, etc. The humor in what's supposed to be a dark and serious setting is one of the things I love about it. 

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Hmmm nice bike
On 1/6/2019 at 9:50 PM, FadeAway said:

I love lll. It was the first to step away from the aerial view and set up for future games. While the atmosphere and tone is dark the satire is there as well through the radio, etc. The humor in what's supposed to be a dark and serious setting is one of the things I love about it. 

And the aerial view was still included as an option, too. Before first person playthroughs, we had top-down playthroughs and doing GTA III like if it was one of the originals!

 

Also, speaking of the radio and how it meshes with the dark atmosphere of the game, I love how cheerful and happy so many of the songs actually are. It juxtaposes well with the environment surrounding the player.

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Rocket1921

Talking about the radio, the first time I lisented to it I choosed MSX FM and I really liked what was being played, then I realized that the radio just has one track, haha. Still love it though.

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SonOfLiberty
On 1/7/2019 at 2:50 PM, FadeAway said:

I love lll. It was the first to step away from the aerial view and set up for future games. While the atmosphere and tone is dark the satire is there as well through the radio, etc. The humor in what's supposed to be a dark and serious setting is one of the things I love about it. 

I've just started to play it again my on PS4. I've always loved its simplistic approach to gameplay much like Vice City, but then San Andreas came along and added things I didn't care about hence I could never warm to it.

 

But back to GTA III I like that it's generous that it'll let you use cheats, but it wont screw up a 100% save or in the case on PS4 not disable trophies.

 

 

 

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Nico

I certainly like the game, but it's been like four years since I last touched it and I don't appreciate it on the same level as VC, IV or even SA. My first GTA game was VC, and that game changed me in so many ways, including my music preferences. GTA III is very lackluster in terms of music IMHO. Never understood the appeal of MSX and Rise. I'm glad its success paved the way for music licensing in future titles.

 

What isn't lackluster is the overall atmosphere and tone of the game, though. It really nails the "sh*thole" feel. In fact, I always laugh when people accuse GTA IV of being the most colorless game of the series. Those people never played GTA III.

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Evil empire

GTA 3 offers a good film noir atmosphere with a good scenario and a charming city offering a nice diversity and the gore mode is largely better than in VC & SA. It also has a  lot of defaults but fortunately they're fixable through mods.

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FadeAway
On 1/8/2019 at 11:53 PM, Hmmm nice bike said:

And the aerial view was still included as an option, too. Before first person playthroughs, we had top-down playthroughs and doing GTA III like if it was one of the originals!

 

Also, speaking of the radio and how it meshes with the dark atmosphere of the game, I love how cheerful and happy so many of the songs actually are. It juxtaposes well with the environment surrounding the player.

I forgot about the aerial view in lll!

 

Some of the songs really were cheerful and happy in the dark atmosphere! I love the humor with the pedestrians in particular, run them over and they make screams and grunts and there is a squishy sound. 

22 hours ago, Miamivicecity said:

I've just started to play it again my on PS4. I've always loved its simplistic approach to gameplay much like Vice City, but then San Andreas came along and added things I didn't care about hence I could never warm to it.

 

But back to GTA III I like that it's generous that it'll let you use cheats, but it wont screw up a 100% save or in the case on PS4 not disable trophies.

 

 

 

I could never, ever play a 3D GTA game on my Xbox again. So I got a Refurbished PS2 now. No doubt it that I'll be looking for older games I used to play. I have lll and I've kept Vice City for years in its original case. 🌴🤗 STILL works!! What did you not like that was added in San Andreas? Even though it seems to be all over the place, it's another I'll add to my GTA 3D collection. Didn't care for the Stories, much. 

 

 

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SonOfLiberty

Uh. I don't want to derail this thread by talking about things I don't like about San Andreas, but for more details check out the "GTA IV vs San Andreas"  thread in series chat.👍

 

Somthing I feel makes this rendition of Liberty City quite unique is it actually feels like it has a mainland mass due to the mountainess area around Shoreside Vale. It doesn't feel like an island like other GTA games.

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