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Lord-Sam

Varmit rifle should be a 2 hit headshot kill instead.

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Stretch188

 

 

1 hour ago, Reyvar said:

Who said I'm interested in realism? (You. This was your reason why FA is unplayable, as I literally just quoted you saying in my last post.)

 

...i'd have an easier time pulling off almost any given shot in real life, (No, you wouldnt, thats why I just gave you 3 examples of hard data that show that no, you wouldnt be able to pull off any of these shots more easily in real life)

 

more often than not you go down before you ever get a chance to react, or even know you've been seen. That's "realistic", (No it isnt. As i just illustrated with all the data in my last post. Are you even reading them? Like jesus christ.)

 

You say youre not interested in realism, but keep insisting that in real life you could shoot better than on a FA on the console. Why are you bringing this up if you arent interested in realism? Its blatantly untrue regardless.

 

You then attempt to say that the auto aim head shots are realistic, but not fun. (No, they arent realistic. We do agree they arent fun)

 

The only solution you see? Did you read my post? I provided multiple solutions (play FA, adjust critical area size) that are leaps and bounds better than anything youve suggested ('just nerf headshots for all guns'). You still havent given one legitimate counter to any of my arguments.

 

Also if youre not interested in realism, maybe the game where you need to bathe, sleep, eat, clean your guns, etc. Isnt the one for you?

 

Im sure theres some future super soldier game where they wear armor made out of macguffins that would satisfy your needs.

 

Stop trying to ruin red dead.

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Reyvar
2 hours ago, Stretch188 said:

 

 

 

You say youre not interested in realism, but keep insisting that in real life you could shoot better than on a FA on the console. Why are you bringing this up if you arent interested in realism? Its blatantly untrue regardless.

 

You then attempt to say that the auto aim head shots are realistic, but not fun. (No, they arent realistic. We do agree they arent fun)

 

The only solution you see? Did you read my post? I provided multiple solutions (play FA, adjust critical area size) that are leaps and bounds better than anything youve suggested ('just nerf headshots for all guns'). You still havent given one legitimate counter to any of my arguments.

 

Also if youre not interested in realism, maybe the game where you need to bathe, sleep, eat, clean your guns, etc. Isnt the one for you?

 

Im sure theres some future super soldier game where they wear armor made out of macguffins that would satisfy your needs.

 

Stop trying to ruin red dead.

The suggestions you're putting forth won't ever happen. Free aim is beyond atrocious in this game. Analog sticks in general make for terrible shooter controls, but this game is among the worst I've ever played. Getting rid of aim assist is not a valid fix for the headshot problem. And yes, it's a headshot problem.. not a Varmint rifle problem.

 

Making headshots have a smaller critical area might help.. but I rather doubt it. People will still use the exact same methods as headshots would still be ideal, unless the critical area is so tiny that it functionally may as well not even be there.. which is basically my suggestion.

 

1 hit KO's just don't make for good gameplay mechanics, which is why most games avoid them.

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dieseltech20

First time playing PvP in this game was tonight.

 

Holy sh*t is this .22 something else. Over 50 kills in one free roam event and I wasn't even trying. Perfect headshots from distances that should require a sniper rifle, lol.

 

The thing is more like a .22-250 

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sodoff

Varmint Rifle should not be a viable option in PvP at all. Unless you press the barrel right into the targets eye-socket and pull the trigger, you should not be able get a kill at all.

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Ghoffman9
Posted (edited)

The issue in of itself is headshots killing players in a single shot. Not the weapon in of itself.

From Gta 4 onward, headshots only did increased damage, not kill you outright. They should have stuck to that system.

 

I also hate how any time a bullet is fired in your general direction, you suddenly have the accuracy of a surly drunk. It doing so after taking damage is one thing but just one traveling by in your general direction should not trigger that effect too. It drives me nuts.

Its the worst when doing story missions where you got 10+ guys constantly spamming their guns at you, so you have to deal with that effect very often. The only reason I think that effect is there to make it harder to land those headshots against players, there is no other reason for it being there really.

Edited by Ghoffman9

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Stretch188
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

The only reason I think that effect is there to make it harder to land those headshots against players, there is no other reason for it being there really.

Its there because taking fire in your direction decreases your accuracy in real life.

 

Think of shootouts in movies even, im sure youve heard people say

 

"Suppresing fire!"

Or

"Cover me!"

Edited by Stretch188

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Watain
Posted (edited)

I don't think it should be a two-(head)shot kind of weapon. I don't think any gun should be that. I'm so sick and tired of bullet-sponge games. A headset is a headshot - it kills you 99 times in a 100. Leave it be.

 

Besides, take away the Varmint rifle's power from griefers and casual players will lose it, too. I don't know about you guys, but I use the Varmint as well for defending myself against those jerks. If anything, what we need is private sessions and passive modes. The problem isn't the Varmint rifle, or any other weapon, it's the a**holes with nothing better to do than to grief other players. Give us options such as those and leave all the griefers to use the Varmint on each other for all I care.

Edited by Watain

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Assblaster
Posted (edited)

All that needs to be done is to make the damage the same for a human as it is for a fox or deer. Anytime I shoot a fox or deer in the head with a varmint rifle it shakes it off and runs. Okay, so make it just like that. No need to nerf it for hunting smaller animals, just make it the same for humans as it is for varmints. Sheesh...it's a varmint rifle.

Edited by Assblaster

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•—•

Accuracy nerf...

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wehweh01

Varmint rifle should stay the same to show how stupid it is to play Red Dead with Autoaim. 

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Ghoffman9
14 hours ago, Stretch188 said:

Its there because taking fire in your direction decreases your accuracy in real life.

 

Think of shootouts in movies even, im sure youve heard people say

 

"Suppresing fire!"

Or

"Cover me!"

Suppressive fire is just used to keep an attacker from shooting until your teammates are safely back into cover. The goal is to constantly be shooting at the enemy's general location so that they cannot shoot. Making them stay behind cover so that your team can move safely. You cannot cite realism when players just spam their guns out in the open, and with npc enemies charging you sometimes with the mentality of a suicide bomber.

 

Getting shot at makes you run for cover, it doesn't make it feel like you just downed ten shots of vodka, making it difficult to hit the broad side of a barn.

Lastly, this isn't real life, its a video game. Missing shots because of something that the game itself is doing is stupid. We are talking about a game where you can restore health with food and tonics after all. 

Due to how often you get shot at, especially during story missions, that stupid reticle sway is almost constantly in effect. If I want to play like that for real, I will down a few shots of alcohol and pick up a controller.

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Stretch188
14 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Suppressive fire is just used to keep an attacker from shooting until your teammates are safely back into cover. The goal is to constantly be shooting at the enemy's general location so that they cannot shoot. Making them stay behind cover so that your team can move safely. You cannot cite realism when players just spam their guns out in the open, and with npc enemies charging you sometimes with the mentality of a suicide bomber.

 

Getting shot at makes you run for cover, it doesn't make it feel like you just downed ten shots of vodka, making it difficult to hit the broad side of a barn.

Lastly, this isn't real life, its a video game. Missing shots because of something that the game itself is doing is stupid.

Didnt say it was real life. You said it doesnt make any sense, and you couldnt understand why they did it so I pointed out why.

 

Considering this is a game where sprinting for too long, going too long without eating, forgetting to clean your gun etc. all affect your accuracy. I hardly think its stupid that you see a slight accuracy decrease when bullets are whizzing by your head.

 

Also, thats not really how it works. It can be. But generally suppressing fire is used to force an enemy to retreat into cover, allowing you or your teammates to move into more advantageous positions.

 

I havent heard a single other person complain about this, and considering there are no automatic weapons, and the clips on almost every weapon are smaller than 8 bullets, I think your issue may be the fact that you dont use cover, and just sprint into the middle of crossfire.

 

Everyone else in this topic is complaing about overwhelming accuracy, i.e: the lack of a strategy like suppresive fire. Most gun fights I see in PVP actually have very few bullets fired, as any reasonably skilled player can headshot his opponent within milliseconds with the current auto aim system.

 

Maybe its...you?

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Ghoffman9
4 minutes ago, Stretch188 said:

Didnt say it was real life. You said it doesnt make any sense, and you couldnt understand why they did it so I pointed out why.

 

Considering this is a game where sprinting for too long, going too long without eating, forgetting to clean your gun etc. all affect your accuracy. I hardly think its stupid that you see a slight accuracy decrease when bullets are whizzing by your head.

 

Also, thats not really how it works. It can be. But generally suppressing fire is used to force an enemy to retreat into cover, allowing you or your teammates to move into more advantageous positions.

 

I havent heard a single other person complain about this, and considering there are no automatic weapons, and the clips on almost every weapon are smaller than 8 bullets, I think your issue may be the fact that you dont use cover, and just sprint into the middle of crossfire.

 

Everyone else in this topic is complaing about overwhelming accuracy, i.e: the lack of a strategy like suppresive fire. Most gun fights I see in PVP actually have very few bullets fired, as any reasonably skilled player can headshot his opponent within milliseconds with the current auto aim system.

 

Maybe its...you?

Apparently you got a short memory, so let me remind you of what you said earlier, and I quote:

"Its there because taking fire in your direction decreases your accuracy in real life."

 

You repeated almost everything I said earlier, getting shot at does make one run for cover, it does not make them feel like they downed ten shots of vodka. Players have always been this accurate in previous Rockstar games, the only thing that changed is the ability to kill a player with a single headshot. While in the online portions of their previous games only had headshots do increased damage, not kill them outright. I mentioned it cause I believe they introduced this mechanic because players can now one shot each other with headshots, so they introduced this mechanic to make that harder.

 

Battles at mid-range to close range often end like that, but battles of any greater distance usually don't end that way.

 

You don't know anything about me or how I fight. I land headshots fine, but it doesn't make that mechanic any less annoying, in PvP or in PvE where you got 10+ NPC enemies constantly spamming their guns in your direction.

I am used to my reticle going where I tell it to, instead of just moving around of its own accord despite my input.

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Stretch188
17 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

The only reason I think that effect is there to make it harder to land those headshots against players, there is no other reason for (the effect) being there really.

 

15 hours ago, Stretch188 said:

Its there because taking fire in your direction decreases your accuracy in real life.

 

1 hour ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Getting shot at makes you run for cover, it doesn't make it feel like you just downed ten shots of vodka, making it difficult to hit the broad side of a barn.

Lastly, this isn't real life, its a video game. Missing shots because of something that the game itself is doing is stupid.

 

51 minutes ago, Stretch188 said:

Didnt say it was real life. You said it doesnt make any sense, and you couldnt understand why they did it so I pointed out why.

16 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Apparently you got a short memory, so let me remind you of what you said earlier, and I quote:

"Its there because taking fire in your direction decreases your accuracy in real life."

 

getting shot at does not make (one) feel like they downed 10 shots of vodka.

 

I am used to my reticle going where I tell it to, instead of just moving around of its own accord despite my input.

My bad, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that youve been reading through the thread. I can see now that isnt the case.

 

As Ive mentioned multiple times in this topic already, citing hard data from studies conducted on US soldiers, taking fire dramatically decreases accuracy in real life - anywhere from 20x-30x on soldiers in combat situations vs the range.

 

That said, I have had no issues with my reticule going in places I dont want it to. If youre sway is that overwhelming, it may be because of: empty cores, a dirty gun, the wrong gun for that range or excessive movement/lack of movement.

 

The short memory comment is rich, seeing as you seem to be unable to remember why I even responded to you in the first place.

 

I honestly cant really tell what youre trying to argue right now, other than you keep mentioning vodka shots and that youre arguing in bad faith.

 

Im gonna slowly back out of this topic now, as it really genuinely just feels like a waste of my time lol.

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J373
13 hours ago, Ektope said:

Accuracy nerf...

Dito

 

Just a bigger starting cyrcle that is slower to decrease.

Maybe range nerf.

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FreeMaxB585
On 1/3/2019 at 6:31 PM, Reyvar said:

The suggestions you're putting forth won't ever happen. Free aim is beyond atrocious in this game. Analog sticks in general make for terrible shooter controls, but this game is among the worst I've ever played. Getting rid of aim assist is not a valid fix for the headshot problem. And yes, it's a headshot problem.. not a Varmint rifle problem.

 

Making headshots have a smaller critical area might help.. but I rather doubt it. People will still use the exact same methods as headshots would still be ideal, unless the critical area is so tiny that it functionally may as well not even be there.. which is basically my suggestion.

 

1 hit KO's just don't make for good gameplay mechanics, which is why most games avoid them.

 

You keep saying you go down quick and cant react etc. Well try to be more tactical then. Dont get hit out in the open. take cover more. Or dive out of the way when you are in front of someone. If want games where can be a bullet sponge go play overwatch or something

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Chrismads
7 hours ago, Stretch188 said:

That said, I have had no issues with my reticule going in places I dont want it to. If youre sway is that overwhelming, it may be because of: empty cores, a dirty gun, the wrong gun for that range or excessive movement/lack of movement.

I don't think weapon condition affects accuracy.

 

When I get supressed (is that the right use of the word?) I often can't hit sh*t. And that's how it should be. The supression effect gives a nice balance to the, granted a bit OP, auto aim system. If I get shot two times, no way I'll aim - flick - headshot that guy.. depending on range and luck. 

 

Supression is an awesome feature in RDO and an even better example BF4, Dice really nailed it in BF4. Still play that old ass game just because of that

 

 

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•—•
Posted (edited)

Dead eye removes the aiming reticule sway/blooming. It's literally 100% accuracy. Suppressing won't even work against dead eye user. I feel better using lancaster in slow and steady. It's literally more powerful than varmint, along with hard hitting special ammo (express). And sometimes express explosives. Lancaster has big potential that can make you forget about nerfing the varmint.

Edited by Ektope

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Shadowfennekin

It shouldn't kill humans at all period, no matter where you shoot them.

 

This gun needs nerfed to hell

PvP is already pretty sh*t with the whole "Spawn right next to an enemy" situation, we don't need unskilled pricks using this as it's 'easy' 🙄

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Callahan44
10 minutes ago, Shadowfennekin said:

It shouldn't kill humans at all period, no matter where you shoot them.

 

This gun needs nerfed to hell

PvP is already pretty sh*t with the whole "Spawn right next to an enemy" situation, we don't need unskilled pricks using this as it's 'easy' 🙄

Pvp doesnt get any more skill related just because you nerf the varmint...

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Happy Hunter

Here I use a Lancaster to get a Varmint player. He gets me in the head first by just a little, but thanks to deadeye you can see he barely scratches my health.

 

giphy.gif

 

Slow and Steady.

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just do it bob1
On 1/4/2019 at 8:50 PM, wehweh01 said:

Varmint rifle should stay the same to show how stupid it is to play Red Dead with Autoaim. 

What's even more stupid is the fact that we can't even go into free aim lobbies. I am actually better with free aim and always free aim on GTA, regardless if it is an auto-aim lobby.

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Reyvar
15 hours ago, Happy Hunter said:

Here I use a Lancaster to get a Varmint player. He gets me in the head first by just a little, but thanks to deadeye you can see he barely scratches my health.

 

giphy.gif

 

Slow and Steady.


That isn't really a solution though. The deadeye meter is extremely limited, and sometimes isn't even there at all. I can't tell you how often I'm playing and have absolutely no deadeye bar at all (as in not even an empty bar), despite having a full core.

Even if you have a full deadeye meter to play with though, it does nothing whatsoever if you aren't using it. What happens if the game spawns someone behind you and you go down without ever even knowing what got you?

Finally.. is it really good game design to pigeonhole every player into using only one or two ability cards because despite their many flaws they're indisputably the best available because they at least partially address such a large failing of the basic game design?

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Reyvar
On 1/5/2019 at 11:33 AM, FreeMaxB585 said:

 

You keep saying you go down quick and cant react etc. Well try to be more tactical then. Dont get hit out in the open. take cover more. Or dive out of the way when you are in front of someone. If want games where can be a bullet sponge go play overwatch or something

What you're saying is effectively impossible. A couple weeks ago I rode my horse into town, stopped next to the butcher, got off my horse to sell my goods and randomly instantly died because someone decided to walk out of the general store and shoot me in the face.

I've been in PvP matches where players spawned behind me, started out as a ghost, then we immediately shot each other in the head as soon as it ended. One or in some cases both of us just went splat in the blink of an eye. I've been in cover on the civil war battlefield, in a location where nobody should have even seen me, watching for enemies on approach to the zone I'm defending, with no LoS on an enemy and nothing on my radar, then suddenly had my head explode because the game spawned someone behind me. I've also had similar situations where someone could have only seen me on their radar despite them not showing up on mine, as they picked me off the moment I left cover like they were already aiming at me. Heck, I've had similar situations where I planted myself behind cover and just happened to get 10+ kills in a row - keeping an entire opposing team pinned down and respawning long enough for my team to capture the entire map. It was sheer luck that I got each of them before they got me, but it meant that we won the match all but instantly and I'm fairly certain that they didn't exactly enjoy playing the game all that much.

There's no amount of "tactical" that can prevent dying to something you couldn't possibly have predicted or reacted to. "Going down quick" is literally all that ever happens, unless you're playing against someone that's a complete idiot and is trying to pick you off with a Varmint rifle to the chest, every time you face a player one or both of you is going down quick with a shot to the face.

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Chrismads
3 hours ago, Reyvar said:

What you're saying is effectively impossible. A couple weeks ago I rode my horse into town, stopped next to the butcher, got off my horse to sell my goods and randomly instantly died because someone decided to walk out of the general store and shoot me in the face.

There's no amount of "tactical" that can prevent dying to something you couldn't possibly have predicted or reacted to. "Going down quick" is literally all that ever happens, unless you're playing against someone that's a complete idiot and is trying to pick you off with a Varmint rifle to the chest, every time you face a player one or both of you is going down quick with a shot to the face.

I think you're wrong here. Just gonna mention 2 abillity cards:

Never without one

Slow and steady

1 shot in the head, you hat comes off. Then you quickly activate deadeye as a reflex and can tank at least one more bullet in the face. 

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Revoemag
Posted (edited)

As long as the varmit rifle is available as is,  in pvp,  then there is no reason to have any other gun in the game...

 

And that is why the gun is broken

Edited by Revoemag

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Happy Hunter
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Reyvar said:


That isn't really a solution though.

Works for me. Beaten plenty of Varmint Rifle people. If anything, I kind of hope people use it on me. Nowadays I just see it as something that's a pain for low levels who don't have the right cards.

 

5 hours ago, Reyvar said:


Even if you have a full deadeye meter to play with though, it does nothing whatsoever if you aren't using it. What happens if the game spawns someone behind you and you go down without ever even knowing what got you?

What gun would that not be a problem with? I could use a throwing knife in that situation and it'd be unfair. That's on the horrible spawning, which is a problem in of itself.

 

 

5 hours ago, Reyvar said:


Finally.. is it really good game design to pigeonhole every player into using only one or two ability cards because despite their many flaws they're indisputably the best available because they at least partially address such a large failing of the basic game design?

Arguably not, lol. Although, there's only 5 deadeye cards anyway - so I don't know why it's such a big deal for people to just pick that one.

 

I just see it as something used on lower level players now. Higher levels move onto other stuff. Bulletproof hats, slow and steady, explosive rounds (which the Varmint can't use), etc.

Edited by Happy Hunter

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Lord-Sam
On 1/2/2019 at 8:55 AM, Semaj 2JZ♢ said:

It's a .22 caliber long rifle. Do any of you know anything about that? If you did you'd know how positively stupid it would be to make it a 2 headshot kill weapon. 🤦‍♂️

Bro I can magically block a sniper bullet to the face with my hat perk.

you nerf the speed and accuracy for this weapon and now you end up with a useless hunting weapon.

It needs a damage reduction for humans.

Or rockstar needs to change hard lock auto aim to soft lock

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Da Elite Ninjah

The varmint should not be able to hit people. 

 

Like when you are in camp with the white flag. You can shoot animals but no PVP. 

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Fatsanchez
Posted (edited)

All I can say is that both "sides" have very good and reasonable arguments and this is really a pickle for Rockstar to solve out.

 

Looking at this from a game-design perspective, its kinda weird that the weakest gun against animals (which as many noted can't kill many animals with one headshot) and one of the most basic weapons of the game is (or can be) the absolute king in PVP and can top even the most high-end rifles in most situations; but in the other hand (and also from the same perspective) having it be the very only gun which can't kill with a single headshot is also weird... would make the gunplay inconsistent maybe? This fact about the Varmint creates the necessity of using one of a couple of ability cards that are able to counter this, thus probably further funneling the ability cards setups possibilities (everyone would be using more or less the same setup), which is also bad from a game design perspective IMO.

 

Guess that's what you get when you design an incredible single-player experience and just mindlessly 'port' it into an online component just to milk the f*ck out of it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Fatsanchez
this doesn't mean I have no hope for this game tho, I really do

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