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Gtaman_92

Who do you think would of been allies?

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Gtaman_92

Sean, Hosea, Lenny, Molly and Kieran were all killed before the gang broke up during chapter 6. Who do you think they would of sided with?

 

Hosea I’m pretty sure would of aided Arthur. He was against mindless killing and would of never let Micah get so close to Dutch in the 1st place. Lenny would of obviously sided with Arthur since those two had a strong friendship throughout the game. Sean would of went on Arthur’s side too considering he did not interact with Dutch much and Arthur was the only one who wanted to save him. Kieran would of help Arthur as well since he saved his life and Arthur started to warm up to him. Molly on the other hand would of sided with Dutch since she was trying so desperately to win his affection throughout the game.

 

Edited by Gtaman_92

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Implicitly

Kieran without a doubt would've sided with Arthur since he's just a horse-loving kid, rather than some murderous killer. Saved Arthur's life, and even from the beginning when tied to the tree he kept saying that he thinks Arthur is a good person. Sean tried to kill Dutch before he joined the gang, he would've sided with Arthur since they both view each other as brothers. Lenny would've followed who's side Hosea taken, so yeah - all those people who died without a doubt would've sided with Arthur.

 

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Jimbatron

It’s a great point - the who is with me and who is against me moment could have turned out very differently if a few of the above had lived. Even something like Bill catching the first bullet instead of Sean at Rhodes could have had quite profound consequences.

 

Obviously had Hosea survived he might have been able to counteract Micahs malign influence enough to stop the gang breaking down internally - but the Pinkerton would still have kept coming.

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HockeyMike24

I'm sure mostly everyone who died would have sided with Arthur too. Although who knows, really. Dutch is a good leader with an amazing ability to capture peoples loyalty. It's a shame that Bill and Javier were blinded by this loyalty all the way to the end. 

 

Lenny voiced his concerns to Hosea in chapter 2 about how he didn't like where the gang was headed. Him and Hosea I think would have for sure backed Arthur.

 

Molly and Kieran were not part of the main crew of guns, so they would have a smaller impact on the story.

 

As for Sean, I think he would have sided with Dutch. If Javier and Bill followed then Sean following isn't too far fetched. As he wanted riches about as much as Dutch's crew.

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Jimbatron

^ I think the difference is Bill and Javier have been with Dutch much longer and are still following him out of blind loyalty. Even that wears out some time between Chapter 6 and RDR 1.

 

Sean has less association with Dutch and is more likely to look at the deteriorating situation as being down to his leadership failing. Plus my read is that he wants to impress Arthur whenever they are on jobs together. He doesn’t have as much time with Dutch. My money is on him taking Morgan’s side all the way.

 

Its highly likely Kieran and Molly might have fled with several of the others before “Redemption”. Had Kieran been around though you can see him being on Arthur’s side through and through - or at the very least, in the middle vainly trying to calm things down.

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Grotti Vigilante

Wow, I was actually going to make a thread just like this myself, but I kept putting it off given I recently posted a poll not a few days ago. Personally, I think those that all died would've probably sided with Arthur, though Sean I'm not so sure about. Hosea would've been on Arthur's side along with Lenny and Kieran. Sean is perhaps the hardest one to consider, but since he was like Arthur's annoying little brother I think he may have chosen Arthur in the end just because of their relationship. Molly might've probably sided with Dutch either to win his affections, or with Arthur just out of spite against him. She's a tough call to consider though. 

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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LeonVegaSuarez

Arthur wouldve convinced Lenny to leave the gang

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DirtCheap

If Hosea never died, Dutch would've never went insane and let the planning go to Micah.

As a result, the gang wouldn't break up as quickly.

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Cutter De Blanc

I don't think it would have gone down the same way if Hosea had lived. That standoff at the end would have never taken place.

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TheSantader25
5 hours ago, DirtCheap said:

If Hosea never died, Dutch would've never went insane and let the planning go to Micah.

As a result, the gang wouldn't break up as quickly.

Dutch was already going insane before Hosea though. The way he killed Bronte? Hosea was a factor that did speed uo the process but he wasn't the REASON for what happened. However with Hosea Dutch might never have crossed the lines he crossed in Ch. 6 ever. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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McAgent

Assuming the confrontation occurs with everyone still alive, I think every other gang member would have sided with Arthur over Dutch. By that point Dutch's insanity was clear, everyone knew Micah was a douche, and Bill and Javier only sided with Dutch out of stupidity/fear (they are long gone by 1907).

Hosea and Arthur had a father-son relationship and Hosea would have been intelligent enough to spot Dutch's insanity and irrationality,

Lenny looked up to Arthur and Hosea more than he did Dutch and was very close to those two,

Arthur writes in his journal of how he and Sean were like brothers; meanwhile, Sean and Dutch are never depicted as having a strong relationship in the game, which makes me believe that Sean would have gone in support of Arthur (I could imagine him being written as siding with Dutch though), 

Molly and Kieran would have probably fled by that point, but assuming they were present at Beaver's Hollow, they both would likely side with Arthur as well. Every passive member of the gang alive at that point had already left camp BECAUSE of Dutch, there's no reason to believe those two would be any different, especially with Molly's frustrations with Dutch and Kieran's passiveness.

Edited by McAgent

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DirtCheap
8 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

Dutch was already going insane before Hosea though. The way he killed Bronte? Hosea was a factor that did speed uo the process but he wasn't the REASON for what happened. However with Hosea Dutch might never have crossed the lines he crossed in Ch. 6 ever. 

 

Yes, but the madness he was showing pre-Chapter 6 was understandable as Bronte screwed him over horribly with the botched station robbery. I think drowning him would be understandable, but making him an alligator's dinner? Yeah, I agree that was too OTT for Dutch to do.

 

He also violently drags Mrs. Braithwaite out of the house and kills her sons, but that was also understandable as they kidnapped Jack.

 

Also, in Chapter 1, everyone keeps talking about the ferry heist, and McCourt meeting her demise at the hands of Dutch, but by Chapter 2, this had been largely brushed off.

 

 

Had Hosea not died, Dutch may have not wanted to plan foolish things i.e. killing Cornwall in broad daylight, starting a battle between the U.S. Army and the Wapiti Tribe, etc.

Edited by DirtCheap

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TheSantader25
5 minutes ago, DirtCheap said:

 

 

Had Hosea not died, Dutch may have not wanted to plan foolish things i.e. killing Cornwall in broad daylight, starting a battle between the U.S. Army and the Wapiti Tribe, etc.

Oh I still think he would kill Cornwall but he wouldn't use the tribe for his own ends. But throughout the story we sometimes even see how helpless Hosea is for controlling Dutch. Remember when he wanted to go for Colm in Ch. 1? Or the discussion Dutch, Hosea and Arthur had in Shady belle about the bank heist(Arthur sided with Dutch-his worst mistake). Hosea couldn't completely control Dutch. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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DirtCheap
43 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

Oh I still think he would kill Cornwall but he wouldn't use the tribe for his own ends. But throughout the story we sometimes even see how helpless Hosea is for controlling Dutch. Remember when he wanted to go for Colm in Ch. 1? Or the discussion Dutch, Hosea and Arthur had in Shady belle about the bank heist(Arthur sided with Dutch-his worst mistake). Hosea couldn't completely control Dutch. 

 

I can see what you mean, but what I'm trying to say is that if Hosea was alive and well in Ch. 6, some, if not most, of Dutch's plans wouldn't resort to murder.

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