Best Antagonist? [POSSIBLE SPOILERS!]

[Grotti Vigilante 771]

SPOILER WARNING: If you're a PC gamer, someone who hasn't yet bought the game, or someone who hasn't yet beaten the game while owning it because unlike me you actually have a life, then you are entering into a territory where spoilers may or may not be included in the entire thread section. Proceed at your own risk!

 

Now Red Dead Redemption II is not short of it's antagonist as anyone who has played the game should know. In fact it's funny how better developed they are than three-quarters of GTA V's four antagonists, but that's besides the point. Who in actuality do you think is the best antagonist in the entire game? Please note that I have excluded a few more minor antagonists such as Joe and Cleet due to the fact they play very little roles at all in the storyline against the player. The ones I have written all impact the story in some way or another. Due to him not working against you for the majority of the game, I have excluded Dutch van der Linde since he's an ally for the vast majority of the game and doesn't make a big enough impact on either protagonist as a non-ally, in John's case even helping him at the end. So with that in mind, vote and discuss away.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Grotti Vigilante

[simpjkee 170]

I'm going with Agents Milton and Ross

[Tonesta 811]

1 hour ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

 Due to him not working against you for the majority of the game, I have excluded Dutch van der Linde since he's an ally for the vast majority of the game and doesn't make a big enough impact on either protagonist as a non-ally......

Hmmmmm.....I think there's an argument to be made that Dutch is the real antagonist of RDR2 throughout. Yes, he might not be working in open opposition to Arthur until the very end, but it's his unhinged, paranoid, self-serving leadership and decision making that is driving the gang into the ground, putting everyone's lives at greater risk than necessary and generally endangering all that Arthur holds dear.

He's complex and nuanced and multiple shades of grey - and that's what makes him a masterful, compelling villain.

 

But if not him, then it's Micah as he's by far the most developed of the characters on your list. The rest barely had as much screentime as him between them (which is my #1 complaint about the story - too many minor villains that don't get properly developed).

[Jamwes 268]

I decided to vote Micah. My reasoning is because of all of the time before chapter 6. They did a great job of making you hate him before the story makes you hate him. How he chased Sadie, his racism in camp, his constant needling of other characters, and stuff like that. He was even the one who suggested they set up camp in the (not so easy to defend) river bed in chapter 4 before Arthur found the good camp spot.

 

The best move R* did to make you hate him was the mission to break him out of jail. You will get a bounty doing that mission and it will cost you money to get rid of the bounty. As a player, you will remember all that money that he cost you, especially if it's early in the game and you're too poor to pay it off right away. You'll be cursing Micah every time a bounty hunter kills you because of that bounty. It's a great way to use a game mechanic to help the story reasons why the player should hate him.

[Grotti Vigilante 771]

28 minutes ago, Tonesta said:

Hmmmmm.....I think there's an argument to be made that Dutch is the real antagonist of RDR2 throughout. Yes, he might not be working in open opposition to Arthur until the very end, but it's his unhinged, paranoid, self-serving leadership and decision making that is driving the gang into the ground, putting everyone's lives at greater risk than necessary and generally endangering all that Arthur holds dear.

He's complex and nuanced and multiple shades of grey - and that's what makes him a masterful, compelling villain.

Hmmm. You made a good case, I'll give you that.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Grotti Vigilante

[Cutter De Blanc 13,826]

Odd that you list Fussar as one of the villiains but exclude Dutch based on your rationale for excluding him being that he didn't make an impact as a villain. But Fussar did?

 

I voted for Micah, but my real vote is for Dutch. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Cutter De Blanc

[Grotti Vigilante 771]

4 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

Odd that you list Fussar as one of the villiains but exclude Dutch based on your rationale for excluding him being that he didn't make an impact as a villain. But Fussar did?

Fussar was in charge of the men who arrested you on Guarma, which thus had you as wanted men on the island. It was his army that you had to fight against in order to get off the island with a boat that was obtained for you by an ally. That in itself is an impact on the story even if it wasn't through a personal connection with the protagonist.

[Jamwes 268]

I'm thinking those chapter specific antagonists won't get many votes. It might be interesting to have two different polls. One for the characters who are in the whole game and one for the characters who are limited to just a chapter or so.

[Grotti Vigilante 771]

Since a case had previously been made by other users, which I quoted earlier on, I have decided that upon reflection, Dutch van der Linde showed signs of increasing traits of an antagonist with his actions directly working against the player in some form or another. As such, Dutch van der Linde has been added to the poll. You will be able to change your option simply by clicking "Show Vote Options" and voting for your change should you wish.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Grotti Vigilante

[TheSantader25 5,984]

Dutch is seriously reaching the Big Smoke territory with the memes lately. He takes the cake. Micah is a typical bad guy. Dutch is probably Rockstar's most complex character to date. 

[Gray-Hand 1,077]

It’s between Micah and Dutch.

Micah is very hateable both because of his reprehensible character traits like his racism and rapeyness, but also because of how he was able to come between Arthur and Dutch.  The former are just basic bad guy qualities that can be slapped onto any character we are meant to hate, but the second part draws our feelings of genuine insecurity in Arthur and the player, making Micah an emotional as a physical threat.

 

Dutch though, is written in a really nuanced way.  It is easy to see how his Gang could love and respect him, and it is genuinely sad to see him make the bad decisions that seal the fate of everyone around him.

 

I went with Dutch.

[Cutter De Blanc 13,826]

12 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

Dutch is seriously reaching the Big Smoke territory with the memes lately. He takes the cake. Micah is a typical bad guy. Dutch is probably Rockstar's most complex character to date. 

But we just need to do this one last score, Arthur!

[Jimbatron 8,513]

They are all strong characters and this is one of the areas where RDR 2 improves on a major weakeness of GTA V's story.

 

I particularly like when escaping Beaver Hollow cave in "Redemption" where you can hear Agent Ross ordering his men to "find them". Even though he's not in view I thought that was a very powerful use of a series character who is not actually present that much in this installment.

 

But in terms of the most important antagonist in this story, I think it has to go to Micah Bell. This tale is more about the enemies from within. The gang tears itself apart more from the inside pressures than those from without.

[Mac- 162]

For me Micah, I hated that man so much buy the end of the game, every time I ran in to him I tried to shoot him.

[The FoolYT 1,037]

Quite a few of the antagonists were only there for a few missions and in my opinion, didn't have as strong as of an effect. Some antagonists were also killed off too quickly/easily in my opinion. If i had to choose one, it would probably be Dutch.

 

• Agent Andrew Milton - It pissed me off that this guy was there for some of the raids on the camp but disappeared suddenly after the cutscene. Overall tho i would say he was pretty decent as he was "by the book" and a slightly different kind of antagonist compared to what we usually see.
• Leviticus Cornwall - Not really a memorable antagonist. Just threatened Dutch's gang majority of the time and gets killed off easily in a mission and only had like 15 or so bodyguards despite being a rich person.
• Colm O'Driscoll - Not a bad protagonist tbh, i found him to be a pretty decent one.
• Leigh Gray - Becomes an antagonist for like one mission and is killed off in the same mission
• Catherine Braithwaite - Same as above really. 
• Angelo Bronte - He was interesting to me tbh, but Dutch's gang whooped his ass easily so didn't really seem like too big of an anatagonist despite having mobsters or whatever backing him up.
• Alberto Fussar - Didn't really fit in with the game imo (Guarma seemed off as a whole to me in terms of the story)
• Colonel Henry Favours - Can't really recall this guy, was he a guarma dude?
• Micah Bell - Well he was a decent antagonist, kinda reminds me of Ryder in a way.
• Dutch van der Linde - Pretty decent antagonist, reminds me of trevor a bit with his "plans", his spontaneous and such.

Edited December 19, 2018 by The FoolYT

[Grotti Vigilante 771]

3 minutes ago, The FoolYT said:

• Colonel Henry Favours - Can't really recall this guy, was he a guarma dude?

He was the one who was leading the US Army against the Native Americans. 

[GTAgamerWyald 61]

2 hours ago, Tonesta said:

But if not him, then it's Micah as he's by far the most developed of the characters on your list. The rest barely had as much screentime as him between them (which is my #1 complaint about the story - too many minor villains that don't get properly developed).

Not much when it comes to Milton, he had the right amount of appearances and played his role well. And by developed you mean fleshed out. I'd say very few villians in the medium develop, only dutch himself and the big boss come to mind.

 

As for the poll itself. Dutch is the best and the only rockstar villian that I'd say ranks high as one of gaming's all time best. Up there in my top favorites along with others such as Griffith, Meruem, Johan, and Big Boss. As mentioned Micah and Milton are well done too.

Edited December 19, 2018 by GTAgamerWyald

[KingOfScienceFiction 0]

Each antagonist is unique and good in their own way, but Dutch is the most complex. Micah definitely unravels the REAL Dutch, which makes him my second favourite. 

Edited October 23 by KingOfScienceFiction

[PapasHota 389]

Dutch easily best character after John Marston