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Grotti Vigilante

Best Antagonist? [POSSIBLE SPOILERS!]

Who is the best antagonist of Red Dead Redemption II?  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is the best antagonist of Red Dead Redemption II?

    • Agent Andrew Milton
      5
    • Leviticus Cornwall
      3
    • Colm O'Driscoll
      1
    • Leigh Gray
      0
    • Catherine Braithwaite
      0
    • Angelo Bronte
      5
    • Alberto Fussar
      0
    • Colonel Henry Favours
      0
    • Micah Bell
      26
    • Dutch van der Linde
      34


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Grotti Vigilante

SPOILER WARNING: If you're a PC gamer, someone who hasn't yet bought the game, or someone who hasn't yet beaten the game while owning it because unlike me you actually have a life, then you are entering into a territory where spoilers may or may not be included in the entire thread section. Proceed at your own risk!

 

Now Red Dead Redemption II is not short of it's antagonist as anyone who has played the game should know. In fact it's funny how better developed they are than three-quarters of GTA V's four antagonists, but that's besides the point. Who in actuality do you think is the best antagonist in the entire game? Please note that I have excluded a few more minor antagonists such as Joe and Cleet due to the fact they play very little roles at all in the storyline against the player. The ones I have written all impact the story in some way or another. Due to him not working against you for the majority of the game, I have excluded Dutch van der Linde since he's an ally for the vast majority of the game and doesn't make a big enough impact on either protagonist as a non-ally, in John's case even helping him at the end. So with that in mind, vote and discuss away.

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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simpjkee

I'm going with Agents Milton and Ross

  • Like 1

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Tonesta
1 hour ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

 Due to him not working against you for the majority of the game, I have excluded Dutch van der Linde since he's an ally for the vast majority of the game and doesn't make a big enough impact on either protagonist as a non-ally......

Hmmmmm.....I think there's an argument to be made that Dutch is the real antagonist of RDR2 throughout. Yes, he might not be working in open opposition to Arthur until the very end, but it's his unhinged, paranoid, self-serving leadership and decision making that is driving the gang into the ground, putting everyone's lives at greater risk than necessary and generally endangering all that Arthur holds dear.

He's complex and nuanced and multiple shades of grey - and that's what makes him a masterful, compelling villain.

 

But if not him, then it's Micah as he's by far the most developed of the characters on your list. The rest barely had as much screentime as him between them (which is my #1 complaint about the story - too many minor villains that don't get properly developed).

  • Like 4

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Jamwes

I decided to vote Micah. My reasoning is because of all of the time before chapter 6. They did a great job of making you hate him before the story makes you hate him. How he chased Sadie, his racism in camp, his constant needling of other characters, and stuff like that. He was even the one who suggested they set up camp in the (not so easy to defend) river bed in chapter 4 before Arthur found the good camp spot.

 

The best move R* did to make you hate him was the mission to break him out of jail. You will get a bounty doing that mission and it will cost you money to get rid of the bounty. As a player, you will remember all that money that he cost you, especially if it's early in the game and you're too poor to pay it off right away. You'll be cursing Micah every time a bounty hunter kills you because of that bounty. It's a great way to use a game mechanic to help the story reasons why the player should hate him.

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Grotti Vigilante
28 minutes ago, Tonesta said:

Hmmmmm.....I think there's an argument to be made that Dutch is the real antagonist of RDR2 throughout. Yes, he might not be working in open opposition to Arthur until the very end, but it's his unhinged, paranoid, self-serving leadership and decision making that is driving the gang into the ground, putting everyone's lives at greater risk than necessary and generally endangering all that Arthur holds dear.

He's complex and nuanced and multiple shades of grey - and that's what makes him a masterful, compelling villain.

Hmmm. You made a good case, I'll give you that.

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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Cutter De Blanc

Odd that you list Fussar as one of the villiains but exclude Dutch based on your rationale for excluding him being that he didn't make an impact as a villain. But Fussar did?

 

I voted for Micah, but my real vote is for Dutch. 

Edited by Cutter De Blanc
  • Like 1

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Grotti Vigilante
4 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

Odd that you list Fussar as one of the villiains but exclude Dutch based on your rationale for excluding him being that he didn't make an impact as a villain. But Fussar did?

Fussar was in charge of the men who arrested you on Guarma, which thus had you as wanted men on the island. It was his army that you had to fight against in order to get off the island with a boat that was obtained for you by an ally. That in itself is an impact on the story even if it wasn't through a personal connection with the protagonist.

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Jamwes

I'm thinking those chapter specific antagonists won't get many votes. It might be interesting to have two different polls. One for the characters who are in the whole game and one for the characters who are limited to just a chapter or so.

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Grotti Vigilante

Since a case had previously been made by other users, which I quoted earlier on, I have decided that upon reflection, Dutch van der Linde showed signs of increasing traits of an antagonist with his actions directly working against the player in some form or another. As such, Dutch van der Linde has been added to the poll. You will be able to change your option simply by clicking "Show Vote Options" and voting for your change should you wish.

Edited by Grotti Vigilante
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TheSantader25

Dutch is seriously reaching the Big Smoke territory with the memes lately. He takes the cake. Micah is a typical bad guy. Dutch is probably Rockstar's most complex character to date. 

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Gray-Hand

It’s between Micah and Dutch.

Micah is very hateable both because of his reprehensible character traits like his racism and rapeyness, but also because of how he was able to come between Arthur and Dutch.  The former are just basic bad guy qualities that can be slapped onto any character we are meant to hate, but the second part draws our feelings of genuine insecurity in Arthur and the player, making Micah an emotional as a physical threat.

 

Dutch though, is written in a really nuanced way.  It is easy to see how his Gang could love and respect him, and it is genuinely sad to see him make the bad decisions that seal the fate of everyone around him.

 

I went with Dutch.

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Cutter De Blanc
12 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

Dutch is seriously reaching the Big Smoke territory with the memes lately. He takes the cake. Micah is a typical bad guy. Dutch is probably Rockstar's most complex character to date. 

But we just need to do this one last score, Arthur!

  • Like 1

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Jimbatron

They are all strong characters and this is one of the areas where RDR 2 improves on a major weakeness of GTA V's story.

 

I particularly like when escaping Beaver Hollow cave in "Redemption" where you can hear Agent Ross ordering his men to "find them". Even though he's not in view I thought that was a very powerful use of a series character who is not actually present that much in this installment.

 

But in terms of the most important antagonist in this story, I think it has to go to Micah Bell. This tale is more about the enemies from within. The gang tears itself apart more from the inside pressures than those from without.

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Mac-

For me Micah, I hated that man so much buy the end of the game, every time I ran in to him I tried to shoot him.

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CrimsonFolo

Quite a few of the antagonists were only there for a few missions and in my opinion, didn't have as strong as of an effect. Some antagonists were also killed off too quickly/easily in my opinion. If i had to choose one, it would probably be Dutch.

 

  • Agent Andrew Milton - It pissed me off that this guy was there for some of the raids on the camp but disappeared suddenly after the cutscene. Overall tho i would say he was pretty decent as he was "by the book" and a slightly different kind of antagonist compared to what we usually see.
  • Leviticus Cornwall - Not really a memorable antagonist. Just threatened Dutch's gang majority of the time and gets killed off easily in a mission and only had like 15 or so bodyguards despite being a rich person.
  • Colm O'Driscoll - Not a bad protagonist tbh, i found him to be a pretty decent one.
  • Leigh Gray - Becomes an antagonist for like one mission and is killed off in the same mission
  • Catherine Braithwaite - Same as above really. 
  • Angelo Bronte - He was interesting to me tbh, but Dutch's gang whooped his ass easily so didn't really seem like too big of an anatagonist despite having mobsters or whatever backing him up.
  • Alberto Fussar - Didn't really fit in with the game imo (Guarma seemed off as a whole to me in terms of the story)
  • Colonel Henry Favours - Can't really recall this guy, was he a guarma dude?
  • Micah Bell - Well he was a decent antagonist, kinda reminds me of Ryder in a way.
  • Dutch van der Linde - Pretty decent antagonist, reminds me of trevor a bit with his "plans", his spontaneous and such.
Edited by The FoolYT
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Grotti Vigilante
3 minutes ago, The FoolYT said:
  • Colonel Henry Favours - Can't really recall this guy, was he a guarma dude?

He was the one who was leading the US Army against the Native Americans. 

  • Like 1

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GTAgamerWyald
2 hours ago, Tonesta said:

But if not him, then it's Micah as he's by far the most developed of the characters on your list. The rest barely had as much screentime as him between them (which is my #1 complaint about the story - too many minor villains that don't get properly developed).

Not much when it comes to Milton, he had the right amount of appearances and played his role well. And by developed you mean fleshed out. I'd say very few villians in the medium develop, only dutch himself and the big boss come to mind.

 

As for the poll itself. Dutch is the best and the only rockstar villian that I'd say ranks high as one of gaming's all time best. Up there in my top favorites along with others such as Griffith, Meruem, Johan, and Big Boss. As mentioned Micah and Milton are well done too.

Edited by GTAgamerWyald

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KingOfScienceFiction

Each antagonist is unique and good in their own way, but Dutch is the most complex. Micah definitely unravels the REAL Dutch, which makes him my second favourite. 

Edited by KingOfScienceFiction

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PapasHota

Dutch easily best character after John Marston

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TheJesus1996

5. Angelo Bronte

4. Agent Andrew Milton

3. Micah Bell

2. Dutch van der Linde

Spoiler

1. Tuberculosis

 

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Failed Again

On the stage or screen, in a story or a novel, the protagonist is the main character and the antagonist is the opposing one. Pro- and ant- usually mark the good and bad characters, but not always; there may occasionally be an evil protagonist and a good antagonist.

 

L Cornwell

 

he's the Bad guy, that causes Most of the conflicts.....

Dutch, just reacts Badly, and makes bad decisions

 

Arthur, is the defacto Hero

Micah, a villian

Edited by Failed Again

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Mysterious hero

Honestly, Dutch is the only villain who's actually developed. The rest are bland and generic.

 

Agent Milton is a decent antagonist, but he acts like some Saturday Morning Cartoon or James Bond villain, giving out long theatrical speeches instead of, you know, shooting the gang down. While Ross did feel mustache twirling at times, he was a much more believable character than his mentor.

 

Leviticus Cornwall acts like the typical corrupt oil man. It would've been better if he had a role similar to Nate John's role in the first game. Doesn't appear, but be key character to the plot.

 

Colm O'Driscoll could've been cool, as he seems charming, intelligent, resourceful and could've added more of an interesting backstory to his and Dutch's partnership. But his character isn't expanded beyond "He's one evil bastard".

 

Leigh Gray? Could he even be counted as an antagonist? The man's a joke.

 

Catherine Braithwaite is just the typical "old hag" evil woman. The Braithwaite and Gray feud is the second weakest plot point in the game. 

 

Angelo Bronte is... decent. I like the parallels between Dutch (represents the old way of crime) and Angelo (represents the new way of crime). His treatment of Jack is also pretty interesting and shows that he isn't all bad. He's also a genuine threat to the characters. I actually like this guy, I think he just needs to act less bubbly and more like a mob boss would. But then we get to.....

 

Alberto Fussar. Who the f*** is this guy? Obviously, I know who he is, he's in the most forgettable part of the game. You kill him in the same mission you meet him. Before then there's barely build up to his character. He's hands down the worst antagonist in the game. Leigh might be awful antagonist as well, but at least he actually got Sean killed.

 

Henry Favours. The concept and his motivations for his character his great, but the execution is awful. He's just.... forgettable. I just can't explain why, he just is.

 

Ol' Micah Bell. Let's be honest, Micah isn't a character, he's a caricature and plot device. He has every bad guy trait in the book. He's racist, homophobic, sexist, kicks and shoots dogs, rapes women, kills children, rude, manipulative, and has no real redeeming qualities. I shake my head when people say "The reason why Micah is brilliantly written, is because everyone hates him". Quick question, how hard is it to hate someone who's racist, homophobic, sexist, kicks and shoots dogs, rapes women, kills children, rude, and manipulative? It's not that hard. In fact, not everyone hates him, I actually like Micah. I like him because of how over-the-top ridiculous his character is, he's like Trevor Phillips. But unlike Trevor, who's apart of a hyper exaggerated reality, Micah is meant to be taken seriously in a more grounded universe. It's like if the Joker was transported into real life NYC. Micah literally has the bare minimum requirements for being an evil antagonist. He is a great evil antagonist because of how evil he is and how he opposes the protagonist, but a weak and poorly written character in general.

Edited by Mysterious hero
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Alexlecj

Each villain we encounter is here to mirror Dutch.

 

He acts all superior and belittles the Grays and the Braithwaites, just like Angelo Bronte mocks him and his way of life.

He thinks he has the right to live his questionable way forever, regardless of changing times and morals. The Grays and the Braithwaites are no different.

Doubted by his own, he fans the flames of conflict in Native hearts in order to gain something from Cornwall. Henry Favours is the same and does the same.

He becomes as ruthless and destructive as Cornwall, treating his so-called "sons" as disposable pawns in his quest.

In the course of the game, he's becoming as overzealous as Milton when it comes to his idea of society and the means to achieve it.

Micah emphasizes the individuality in Dutch, thwarting the concept of loyalty by doing so.

Dutch is also overconfident, a trait he shares with his rival Colm.

 

Dutch is the answer.

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TheHouser

That Netherlands guy

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Buddy Hightower

I don't think the game has one, just like in gta 5.

There is no overarching bad guy.

Perhaps society is the antagonist ....

 

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Dan_1983

For me it's Dutch. I went from liking him a lot to hating him so much that I wish John actually shot him in RDR rather than let him commit suicide.

 

Micah was blatantly obvious as an antagonist and got boring. 

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Buddy Hightower
20 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

For me it's Dutch. I went from liking him a lot to hating him so much that I wish John actually shot him in RDR rather than let him commit suicide.

 

Micah was blatantly obvious as an antagonist and got boring. 

They aren't really antagonist though. More like villains.

The antagonist would need to be the opposite of Arthur.

IDK maybe it is Dutch.. lol

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crazedZ10

With the exception of Dutch, they're all pretty lame

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Mokrie Dela

Definitely Dutch simply because his antagonism is disguised throughout much of the story and when its revealed, like the perfect plot twist*, it suddenly.seems so obvious  

 

Micah I just hated. Had potential to be a deep character but hes just an asshole and just making a character an ass with no redeemable qualities, makes for a poor antagonist

 

Dutch was more complex, ignoring the rdredemption knowledge wasnt a clear antagonist to begin with and even seemed conflicted at times. The final scene with him? A well made character. 

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PkUnzipper

Micah is best in RDR 2

Dutch is best in RDR 1

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