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Personal Opinion: While Arthur Morgan is a great character, he is not the best R* protagonist.


The Caped Crusader

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TheSantader25
22 hours ago, O.Z said:

Arthur Morgan is definitely one of the greatest Rockstar characters ever created imo, right up there with Niko and Trevor.

 

Too bad we can’t be him in the end :(

 

 

It's a shame Niko is considered on par with Arthur. But since you mentioned Trevor you get a like. 

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GTAgamerWyald
2 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

It's a shame Niko is considered on par with Arthur. But since you mentioned Trevor you get a like. 

Recently playing IV, I still think Niko is the best GTA protagonist but I definitely feel he should have developed and rockstar definitely didnt capitalize in all the potential he has a character, he simply feels static in ways. I think with Morgan they did the self aware criminal better. Anyways his characterization, charismatic personality, relationships and raw emotion still makes Niko endearing.

 

Niko and Arthur are very similar characters as well, with loyalty being one of the core aspects of their personality.

Edited by GTAgamerWyald
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TheSantader25
27 minutes ago, GTAgamerWyald said:

Recently playing IV, I still think Niko is the best GTA protagonist but I definitely feel he should have developed and rockstar definitely didnt capitalize in all the potential he has a character, he simply feels static in ways. I think with Morgan they did the self aware criminal better. Anyways his characterization, charismatic personality, relationships and raw emotion still makes Niko endearing.

 

Niko and Arthur are very similar characters as well, with loyalty being one of the core aspects of their personality.

It's just a matter of personal opinion but Niko never striked me as a top character like many believe. He is decent but nothing special at all and there are some things about his personality and dialogue thay does not fit his actions. Arthur is far different and deeper than Niko IMO. One important factor he does have is humour. 

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Velociraptorius
On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 5:42 PM, The Caped Crusader said:

I absolutely love RDR II, without a doubt my favorite game tied with GTA IV but I think Arthur Morgan as a character didn't impact me as much as Niko Bellic and John Marston when I first experienced their stories.

I personally put Arthur above both Niko and Marston because, as someone already mentioned in their thread, neither Niko, nor John Marson truly have an arc that includes a change in their characters.

In GTA IV, Niko already starts the game being conflicted about his morals. He doesn't get any more good or bad as the game progresses, nor does he grow. The game does present the player with the choice of whether he pursues revenge or lets it go, but... that's about it. Other than that, Niko starts and ends the game being pretty much the same person. And he doesn't even really have the "underdog to boss" arc of the previous GTA protagonists such as Tommy Vercetti or Carl Johnson. He starts the game in the sh*t, doing the dirty work for people who are actually running things, and ends in pretty much the same place by the end of the game. Granted, that made the game more realistic, and I liked that. Let me be clear that I DID like Niko's character. I just don't think he has much of an arc.

Same with John Marston in RDR1. We don't really see Marston grow or change in any way. Hell, if the government hadn't forced him into his redemption arc, he never would have done it. Marston starts the game as a man who wants to live a quiet life with his family, and his sole objective throughout the entire game is to go back to doing just that. Everything he does is the result of this desire. Thus, Marston, much like Niko, begins and ends the game as pretty much the same person. He's a great character, but there's not much development to him. Hell, he gets MUCH more development in RDR2, which didn't focus on him, than he does in RDR1.

And this is where Arthur Morgan comes in. The Redemption in the game's title suits him much more than Marston, because we actually see Arthur change from a comparatively bad person into a good one over the course of the game. Or at least try to. And while his change is also kickstarted by the circumstances around him, unlike Marston, he had a legitimate choice. As soon as he got sick, he could have said "f*ck it", given up, and gone out guns blazing, unrepentant for anything. But he didn't. He spent the remainder of his life trying to help people and make up for the wrongs that he has done. That is more admirable than anything John did in RDR1. And it Is a genuine arc of character growth, something that neither Niko, nor Marston had in their respective games. Which is why I see Arthur as the superior protagonist to both of them.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Journey_95

I still have more attachment with Niko overall but Arthur is definitely the best Rockstar protagonist at least after him. John Marston was great but kind of limited since he is already a "good" guy at the beginning, there is no clear redemption arc here. That's why doing bad things with him makes much less sense, dude is trying to save his family so why the hell is he robbing people? With Arthur I think being "bad" in the side missions etc. was fitting at least for the majority of the game and that made the later redemption more impactful. Chapter 6 especially really made him one of my favourite video game protagonists ever.

 

His relationship with Dutch, Mary and John etc. all flesh him out more as well & I felt more invested while John was just interacting with wacky characters who he didn't really know or care for, for most of the game and then later on his family was shoehorned in too late to really care (now I do like Abigal and Jack more).

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Spaghetti Cat

The way R* did the face capture really helped fill the character's shoes. There was a cut scene I was watching the other night and Author just gives Dutch the 'well crap' look. No words just a glance. It also fits his strong but silent type. Like to see more of this in the future.

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  • 1 year later...
Bruce Khansey

Imho we can't even say that John had his redemption. He killed bad guys sure, but for who? For even worse guys. He had to do it for his family, but I don't see it as a redemption. Arthur struggles between the gang and the man that raised him and the things he believes in are a very well-written tale. When in the end he says "but... I've tried... in the end... i did"... man, I was literally about to cry.

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gonnaenodaethat

Aw R* protagonists are pure bawbags. 

 

This is thi magic sprinkles that pits them heids an' shudders over thi competition

Edited by gonnaenodaethat
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17 minutes ago, racecar73 said:

Arthur is the best. After the happening, I didn't even want to finish it.

I agree with this, not because John is a bad character but because the epilogue is so... mediocre. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm near the end of my first playthrough with RDR2 having bought it for the PC upon release. I've completed the story and I'm now free-roaming trying to do what's left such as hunting the dinosaur bones, rock carvings etc. I think Arthur was a fantastic character. There was depth to him, multiple facets, and it was backed up by a great story. What happens to Arthur over the course of the game touched me and left me sad, made me reflective of things. And now that the story is over I want to keep going, I want more Arthur. I'm already looking forward to another playthrough and the opportunity to explore and learn more about this guy. That for me not only means he was a great character but also a great protagonist. The last time I felt this way about a Rockstar protaganist was Niko in GTA IV who I also feel had a lot of depth and facets to him surrounded by a great story.

 

What's really interesting here though is that it shows just how subjective a discussion like this can be. What makes a great character? What makes a great protaganist? Do you need one to have the other? I've shared my view on why I think Arthur is both a great character and a great protaganist but when you see people mentioning John, Trevor, Tommy, Niko etc you realise how different things appeal to different people. There'll never be a definitive answer to this, only our own personal opinions based on our experiences with these games.

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  • 1 year later...
The Tracker
On 12/18/2018 at 7:28 PM, PapasHota said:

Personally i think his voice acting is atrocious, the sh*tty southern accent and the cartoony deep voice get on my nerves every time and its worse when you have Dutch and John Marston with such powerful natural voices he just looks out of place.

I can say the same about John Marston, I can say he sounds like he's smoking all the time, I can say he sounds extremely raspy and his angry voice sounds dumb, it's not that it's true and I'm saying this as a BIG John Marston fan, but your opinion is wrong, Arthur sounds exactly the way Roger Clark does, a big southern man with a deep voice, nothing else. A voice you don't like ≠ Bad Voice Acting

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fuzzyballs01

this is an old post and all

but we saw the MOST about Arthur, you played through the last chapters of his life, so in a way he is the best Rockstar protagonist we got (so far)

 

the best is still Johnny, dude's loyal to his brothers to a fault, dude loves Ashley so much he can't be with her even though it hurts, dude is so loyal he kills his chapter's president to save the rest of his brothers

they should just make a GTA set in the 60's and emulate the Lost & Damned but in a huge 60 hour story that takes place in different years (like chapters) from starting the MC after coming home from Vietnam (to explain why your guy knows how to shoot and stuff) up to 2 decades later

nothing can change my mind about Johnny being the best protagonist, but he gets bonus points for being a biker anyways, but what do you have besides that? a gaggle of one-dimensional gangers of various themes (gangbanger, Mafia, Eastern-European)? a crazy guy? a silent guy who just does what he's told all the time?

I mean look at Franklin, you could cut him out of the game and the story would have gone the exact same way, the catalyst was Michael pulling down the house foundations and they had to give Franklin the "I'm loyal bro" to even keep him in after that

Arthur has shown the most feeling out of all of them, just go look at that face he makes when Dutch tells them to leave Abigail in the hands of the Pinkertons, none of the others could even make you understand what he's feeling with words as well, or when he threatens Downes' son, that sh*t is just badass and they should give oscars to motion capture actors

Arthur was the best actor we got, doesn't make him the best protagonist though, he's still pretty simple when it comes down to it

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Niobium

i think the best RDR character is neither arthur nor john

 

it's dutch

 

he made an impact on me when i first played RDR1, and playing RDR2 made me like him even more.

 

seeing him as a charismatic leader with strong principles and values, and then seeing him become more insane and clinging on to his ideals as things get out of control under his leadership really made dutch a captivating character. i completely understand why MOST people say arthur is their favourite, but dutch's character development fascinated me on my playthrough.

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reeversky
15 hours ago, Niobium said:

i think the best RDR character is neither arthur nor john

 

it's dutch

 

he made an impact on me when i first played RDR1, and playing RDR2 made me like him even more.

 

seeing him as a charismatic leader with strong principles and values, and then seeing him become more insane and clinging on to his ideals as things get out of control under his leadership really made dutch a captivating character. i completely understand why MOST people say arthur is their favourite, but dutch's character development fascinated me on my playthrough.


Now that you mention it, he's the only character with memorable lines that I still remember to this day. And I don't mean the memes like "I have a plan", but actual great lines such as:

"When I'm gone, they'll just find another monster. They have to, because they have to justify their wages."

Not long after that, the other "monster" turned out to be John himself. Dutch was probably the most intelligent character in both games. The fact he went crazy doesn't negate that.

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Montana Actual

I disagree. I think he is the best and I hate John Marston because he wears bell bottoms. What a goofball. GTA IV had a great story, but I never played it like the recent games. I can replay the story on GTA V and RDR 2 regularly. I would play RDR 1, if it was ever "remastered" for PC... And I did have it on xbox when I had one, but played about 10 minutes before I just found myself wanting to play RDR 2.

Will be interesting to see what R* has in store for GTA 6. I hope it's a single protag, and I hope it's NOT anything to do with previous GTA's - like the talk of it being a San Andreas remake or remix. Please. No.

17 hours ago, Niobium said:

i think the best RDR character is neither arthur nor john

 

it's dutch

 

he made an impact on me when i first played RDR1, and playing RDR2 made me like him even more.

 

seeing him as a charismatic leader with strong principles and values, and then seeing him become more insane and clinging on to his ideals as things get out of control under his leadership really made dutch a captivating character. i completely understand why MOST people say arthur is their favourite, but dutch's character development fascinated me on my playthrough.


Character, maybe... but he is not a protag.

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fuzzyballs01
19 hours ago, Montana Actual said:

Will be interesting to see what R* has in store for GTA 6. I hope it's a single protag, and I hope it's NOT anything to do with previous GTA's - like the talk of it being a San Andreas remake or remix. Please. No.

lemme give you some advice here, don't listen to leaks, especially Rockstar games leaks, they know how to keep it all a secret

"if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" is a good way to look at things, and "if it sounds really dumb, it's probably not true either" is an even better way

I heard they were doing a latino guy in Vice City who gets his coke from fake Cuba across the sea, which means the middle of the map would just be wide open ocean? who at Rockstar would think that was a good idea

 

and why can't it have anything to  with GTA IV or V? not saying they should bring back Franklin as a contact mission giver or anything, but a simple wink like Lester going "I heard of an Eastern-European guy making moves in Liberty City, but he went quiet" like in the first heist setup is fine though, isn't it?

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Copcaller

My personal favorite is john but arthur is definitely the best written playable characters we've gotten. The exact reason you dislike him is why I like arthur you see he's a intelligent decent guy if you play him high honor but he just can't let the gang go he refuses to see himself as a good person. He tries so hard to do right by the gang even as it's falling apart and everyone is backstabbing each other. 

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