Andrew Milton or Edgar Ross? [Spoilers]

[Grotti Vigilante]

So we know that throughout Red Dead Redemption, Edgar Ross has formed the Bureau of Investigation and is blackmailing John into doing his dirty work while in Red Dead Redemption II, Andrew Milton is a senior Pinkerton Detective Agent who is after Dutch van der Linde for his many crimes against civilization and such. But having played through both games, which of these agents do you generally dislike more? Me personally, I dislike Ross a lot more than Milton. We know that Ross allowed John to run free for a little bit after dealing with former gang members before he betrayed him and attacked his ranch, while Milton offered Arthur his freedom in exchange for Dutch but ultimately had the offer rejected.

 

Personally though, I got the vibe throughout the game that Milton would've genuinely followed through on his offer with Arthur, but then because it wasn't accepted he wasn't given the chance to betray him. Having said that, Milton gave the gang plenty of warnings about what would happen to them, so he seemed far more forgiving than Ross, who truly believed John was beyond redemption and needed to be a loose end tied up once and for all. Ross was truly a disgusting individual who saw John as a pawn in his scheme, and when he was no longer useful he decided to justify his wages and found a new monster in a man trying to live a reformed honest life. Milton though seemed more reasonable from what we got (though he did kill Hosea remember, so he's got that bad thing going for him).

 

So out of the two agents in both games, which of them did you generally dislike more and for what reasons? Leave your thoughts below and your reasons.

 

EDIT: I forgot to actually check whether a thread had been made beforehand, and it seems there is already one available (albeit with a different question asking which was more frightening rather than who you disliked more). Forgive my negligence to check, and feel free to close or remove this thread if you feel the need to. Apologies.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Grotti Vigilante
Added note for mods.

[jje1000]

Milton, for all that he does, is very much by the book- Cornwall even complains that he's following too many rules.

 

Ross, like what you said, is all about the concept of the end justifying the means- it's probably something too much even for his companion Fordham (who wasn't there at the final confrontation).

 

You could more or less say that Milton believes in what society offers for him and is only doing his job in bringing Dutch's gang to justice, despite being portrayed as a villain. On the other hand, Ross is much more of a glory hound who gets others to do the dirty work for him, IMO.

 

[Jamwes]

I voted Ross. On the surface, Milton appears worse. But really, he's just doing his job and hunting down wanted criminals. Ross, on the other hand, gives John "freedom", but was most likely planning on taking him down the whole time. The planned betrayal is what makes me dislike him more.

[BretMaverick777]

So far, the voting reflects that it's a pretty easy choice here. 

Milton shows a flair for the sadistic (Mac Callander comes to mind), but everything he does is pretty much by the book.  He may be hateful, he may have one hell of an ugly mug, but you can't really hate the guy for doing what a lawman is supposed to do.  

 

Ross, on the other hand, is a weasel who gets other people, including wanted criminals, to do his job for him while Ross takes full credit and gets all the promotions and glory.  We get the opportunity to get full satisfaction out of putting that rat Ross down at the end of RDR1.  No such luck with Milton. 

[CrimsonFolo]

Milton had knowledge of the different camps at various points. When Milton and Ross confront Arthur and Jack on their fishing trip, he could have easily chosen to shot Arthur in the back and have jack hostage or have both hostage. Or follow them back to camp or attack their camp and more. Milton even offered to let them go if they hand over Dutch (Although he could have been lying) and he chooses to start fighting them properly as they didn't listen to his demands and that's his job.

 

Ross just used other people, he doesn't even accompany Milton on the raids on the camps, threatens Jack Marston i believe, uses John Marston and doesn't pardon him, chooses to kill John instead. He's just a prick.

[Cutter De Blanc]

I realized it was Edgar near the end when you hear, "This is Edgar Ross of the Pinkerton Detective Agency! We have you surrounded!" booming from the hills like the voice of some god of law and death

 

I let out an audible, "Son of a bitch!" Like, just what we needed during this tense standoff is Agent Plot Armor coming in right when I had almost forgotten about him. sh*t just goes south from there.

 

Andrew Milton more or less seemed to be a good man doing his job. Edgar is a nasty peice of work right from the get-go. "Enjoy fishing while you can, kid." Like one of his first, if not his first line in the game is him picking on a five year old. Come on!

Edited December 18, 2018 by Cutter De Blanc

[Gray-Hand]

I think that Milton had a big element of sadism and cruelty in him, which makes him the more evil of the two.  But at least he largely kept it in check with his devotion to law & order, and reserved his acts of evil for bad people.

 

Ross never really seemed to take pleasure on inflicting harm on anyone, but he was always untrustworthy and self serving.  He had no honour.

 

Overall, I think Milton was the more evil of the two, but I have less respect for Ross.

[LeonVegaSuarez]

Ross. Kidnapped John's family, forced him to hunt down his old gang mates all over the damn place and made empty promises only to betray and kill John in the end. 

 

 

Milton was a prick but it never got as personal as with Ross.

[Gray-Hand]

7 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

...

We get the opportunity to get full satisfaction out of putting that rat Ross down at the end of RDR1.  No such luck with Milton. 

I took his stupid hat and rode back to camp with it.

[Xerukal]

Tough choice. Milton was responsible for the deaths of Hosea and Lenny (and many more, I'm sure). But Ross's betrayal (if you can call it that) hurts even more now, after RDR2.

 

Arthur's sacrifice is made bitter and hollow when John is not only killed, but when his son is pushed into the same cycle of revenge Arthur warned and fought against for most of the second game. The new life he gave to the Marstons being ended so unfairly, even after John went through hell and back, literally killing his past along the way. It's the most f*cked up thing to do to a man. 

 

And it's all because of f*cking Micah. His frozen corpse ultimately leading Ross to Beecher's Hope.

 

f*cking. Micah.

[TheSantader25]

Milton for the sole reason of killing Hosea. But believe it or not I actually felt like Milton is talking sense throughout the game and is genuinely dedicated to his job but Ross is just talking out of hate and disgust. 

[Gray-Hand]

1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

Milton for the sole reason of killing Hosea. But believe it or not I actually felt like Milton is talking sense throughout the game and is genuinely dedicated to his job but Ross is just talking out of hate and disgust. 

Milton believes in the cause of law and order.  Ross is only in the job for the pay check and the self aggrandisement.

[Oldsport]

i actually like milton, hes badass imo. hes by the books and doing his job. i dont think he was lying about letting the gang go if they gave up dutch. he was a big dog.

 

edgar ross on the other hand is a piece of sh*t. hope they remaster rdr so i can blow his ass into the river again. coward.

[RyuNova]

"You live like Savages and thus you will die...SAVAGELY!

No you bellend, im not the one that got shot in the side of the f*cking head by my own hostage. I really wanted Arthur to catch him and turn that line back on him. "You once called us Savages and now you will die...savagely.

[Jamwes]

16 hours ago, Gray-Hand said:

I think that Milton had a big element of sadism and cruelty in him, which makes him the more evil of the two.  But at least he largely kept it in check with his devotion to law & order, and reserved his acts of evil for bad people.

 

Ross never really seemed to take pleasure on inflicting harm on anyone, but he was always untrustworthy and self serving.  He had no honour.

 

Overall, I think Milton was the more evil of the two, but I have less respect for Ross.

I think you put this well. This got me thinking more about what I said above.

 

During RDR2, I hated Milton. He was a good antagonist for the game. He was a character who I, as the player and generally good person in real life, could hate as much as the gang of outlaws hate him. Even though he was "just doing his job," Rockstar wrote him in such a way to provoke hatred towards him. I much prefer this approach over just having a generic lawman character who I really have no feelings towards and only dislike because he is an antagonist character who is trying to arrest my outlaw cowboy character.

 

I don't remember much of RDR1 (I havent played it since it came out and I'm looking forward to replaying next week) but what I do remember is that I felt the story fell into typical western tropes. John needed a "call to action" to kick off the story and send him out to hunt down those who he used to call family. At the time, I felt Ross was just a plot device who kept John going along with the story that Rockstar wanted to tell. The only purpose Ross had was to keep John hunting the gang. I don't particularly remember hating Ross while playing through RDR1. I may think differently after replaying, but the fact that I didn't remember Ross until I came on here and saw mentions of him says something about how little of an impression he had on me all those years ago.

 

So, during the games, I hated Milton more. However, after the games were over and I had time to think about what the characters actually did, I hate Ross more. Kidnapping family to force a reformed man to kill, then executing him in his own home to tie up loose ends makes it easy to hate Ross more.

[Xerukal]

2 hours ago, RyuNova said:

"You live like Savages and thus you will die...SAVAGELY!

No you bellend, im not the one that got shot in the side of the f*cking head by my own hostage. I really wanted Arthur to catch him and turn that line back on him. "You once called us Savages and now you will die...savagely.

The hole in his head was pretty f*cking savage.

[McAgent]

Not even a competition, Ross is one of the, arguably THE most detestable antagonist in a Rockstar game

[TheSantader25]

46 minutes ago, McAgent said:

Not even a competition, Ross is one of the, arguably THE most detestable antagonist in a Rockstar game

Micah would like to have a word. 

[McAgent]

11 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

Micah would like to have a word. 

Good point.

[mark.gunt22]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:32 PM, The FoolYT said:

Milton had knowledge of the different camps at various points. When Milton and Ross confront Arthur and Jack on their fishing trip, he could have easily chosen to shot Arthur in the back and have jack hostage or have both hostage. Or follow them back to camp or attack their camp and more. Milton even offered to let them go if they hand over Dutch (Although he could have been lying) and he chooses to start fighting them properly as they didn't listen to his demands and that's his job.

 

Ross just used other people, he doesn't even accompany Milton on the raids on the camps, threatens Jack Marston i believe, uses John Marston and doesn't pardon him, chooses to kill John instead. He's just a prick.

 

they could not. You think they thought arthur is going to lead them to him?

 

Or maybe they even believed him. 

On 12/19/2018 at 1:53 AM, Xerukal said:

 

 but when his son is pushed into the same cycle of revenge 

 

And it's all because of f*cking Micah. His frozen corpse ultimately leading Ross to Beecher's Hope.

 

f*cking. Micah.

oh aren't we pretentious ah? what cycle are you talking about... he just killed the man that betrayed his father, good nice feeling, end of the story. No cycle whatsoever. Jack can now be at peace and continue his life.

[Xerukal]

12 hours ago, mark.gunt22 said:

oh aren't we pretentious ah? what cycle are you talking about...

The revenge killing cycle. The one Arthur died trying to end? Yeah. Didn't know following the story was pretentious.

 

Quote

he just killed the man that betrayed his father, good nice feeling, end of the story. No cycle whatsoever. Jack can now be at peace and continue his life.

That's not the point. It made Jack into a killer. Arthur, John and Abigail went through so much so that Jack could live a better life. Not to mention that both games taught us that pursuing revenge is not something to be romanticized or celebrated. It always leads to bad sh*t in these games. There's no way Jack can just "continue life" without consequences, emotional or otherwise.

[Jimbatron]

On 12/18/2018 at 6:29 PM, Cutter De Blanc said:

 Edgar is a nasty peice of work right from the get-go. "Enjoy fishing while you can, kid." Like one of his first, if not his first line in the game is him picking on a five year old. Come on!

It was bordering on contrived but I thought this was a brilliant moment.

 

Ross’ first encounter with Jack was by the river in a setting remarkably similar to his last. There was a certain ring of karma in the air around his gloating - only audible to those of us who have played RDR 1 to completion.

 

I don’t think there’s much difference between Milton and Ross. The latter is following in his mentors footsteps, concincidentally picking up pretty much where the former left off - kidnapping Abigail.

[John M_arston]

i didn't like agent Ross that much but agent Milton was on of my favorite characters in the game 

[RyuNova]

Milton is a sadist. He takes pleasuring in mentally torturing and manipulating people.

He wanted the satisfaction of corrupting Arthur to betray Dutch.

[TableTennisChamp]

On 12/18/2018 at 8:10 AM, BretMaverick777 said:

So far, the voting reflects that it's a pretty easy choice here. 

Milton shows a flair for the sadistic (Mac Callander comes to mind), but everything he does is pretty much by the book.  He may be hateful, he may have one hell of an ugly mug, but you can't really hate the guy for doing what a lawman is supposed to do.  

 

Ross, on the other hand, is a weasel who gets other people, including wanted criminals, to do his job for him while Ross takes full credit and gets all the promotions and glory.  We get the opportunity to get full satisfaction out of putting that rat Ross down at the end of RDR1.  No such luck with Milton. 

Ross only cared about the glory he would potentially receive for his "accomplishments" as exemplified when he says to John, ""You know you'll probably get a medal for this. I know I shall." Disgusting considering John pretty much does all the work for him. It would've been one thing if he actually let John go for good but he didn't.

[Implicitly]

Ross is a piece of sh*t who plays dirty. Milton actually wasn't all that bad and was willing to give a gang of criminals a chance.

[HeyThereFriend]

Ross killed my all time favorite video game character after that character did everything that was asked of him. Ross is a piece of crap that never even cared for protecting the innocent, all he wanted was trophies and glory.

 

Using Abigail and Jack to get what he wanted was bad enough but he just had to go and take more, even when John was no danger to anyone.

[Rounak Raj]

In my opinion, Andrew Milton and Edgar Ross represent two major problems with law enforcement that still persist: Police brutality and corruption. 

 

Milton had tortured and killed Mac, killed Hosea Matthews in cold blood just to make a statement, captured and abused John's family and tried to sadistically kill Arthur, before Abigail killed him. Ross, on the other hand, abducted John's family and forced John to find and kill three of his former friends, after which he double-crossed and killed John, took the credit for the deaths of Bill, Javier and Dutch for personal gain and got away with his crimes through lies and bribery. It was really nice to see Ross get killed by Jack.

 

I think that Ross and Milton were similar in their 'ends justify the means' beliefs. But I think Ross was more evil and unlikeable than Milton, who at least worked unselfishly and showed respect for law and order, unlike his corrupt partner who broke and exploited laws for selfish reasons.  

[Sean800]

Initially, Milton was a better man than Ross. He tried to bargain TWICE, he didn't want to kill anyone (except Dutch). Still, at the end of the game he became a total psyco, a "horrible man", like Abigail said.

 

 

12 hours ago, Rounak Raj said:

In my opinion, Andrew Milton and Edgar Ross represent two major problems with law enforcement that still persist: Police brutality and corruption. 

 

Milton had tortured and killed Mac, killed Hosea Matthews in cold blood just to make a statement, captured and abused John's family and tried to sadistically kill Arthur, before Abigail killed him. Ross, on the other hand, abducted John's family and forced John to find and kill three of his former friends, after which he double-crossed and killed John, took the credit for the deaths of Bill, Javier and Dutch for personal gain and got away with his crimes through lies and bribery. It was really nice to see Ross get killed by Jack.

 

I think that Ross and Milton were similar in their 'ends justify the means' beliefs. But I think Ross was more evil and unlikeable than Milton, who at least worked unselfishly and showed respect for law and order, unlike his corrupt partner who broke and exploited laws for selfish reasons.  

 

Milton never tortured Mac. He was already dying from his wounds, it was a mercy killing.

 

He killed Hosea? So what? He traid to bargain with the gang, they refused to and even laughed at him. What happened next was on them.

[Corndawg93]

Milton is just doing his job, Ross went back on his word and betrayed John