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fw3

[GTAO] Has the Endless "Grindplay" Methodology Run it's Course?

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Jenkiiii

GTA online grinding has absolutely affected my attitude towards other video games, and I went into RDRO online with a fully aware approach from the start. No point dicking around and getting into feuds with others, just concentrate on hunting and missions that will generate RP and cash. If you don't, you'll fall behind very quickly. Fortunately RDRO rewards you for the grind, travelling and searching, as well as being so refreshing to get back to a time when robbing a store, stealing a muscle car, etc., had meaning, and when aiming for your first 1M GTAO dollars was a  real achievement. Arena Wars has further emphasised how far GTAO has moved away from its roots, so I'm thankful to RDRO for giving me the opportunity to be involved in Rockstar gaming excellence with a renewed sense of meaning to the unavoidable video game grind.

Edited by Jenkiiii

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The_MaVeRicK
8 hours ago, fw3 said:

A really interesting perspective, @The_MaVeRicK. Thanks for such a thoughtful reply. There's not much to argue in your point of view.

I hadn't considered the idea that the cap could affect players, because that's not how I've played the game, but after reading this, it's a cold slap, for sure.

As for the garbage being thrown, the only side that we own is that we indulge in the gameplay; we make the choice to partake. 
 It's become an unwritten understanding between the dev and the player of who is really in control - we are if we choose not to play; they are if we do.

 

<sigh>

Thank you @fw3

 

I agree with you that there's such an unwritten understanding between players and dev, but there is also a relation that builds over time, the devs seeing the playerbase as money piñatas has in turn changed our perspective on the devs and the game. To play or not play the game isn't our only choice after all.

 

They do all this to push players into buying shark cards, so the first obvious thing to do is never buy shark cards. The next thing would be to not push other players into shark cards and even help them avoid shark cards. So that means don't troll other players, don't ruin a sell they're making, and maybe even lend a hand if you see a player getting wrecked by a tryhard or give a few tips here and there ingame or in forums.

 

R* after all is treating tryhards like small children or pets when they put a red a marker on any player doing a sell or a solo activity and tell them to go "fetch", so we can choose to play the game but not as pets, there's a time for competitive gameplay with other players who want that and there's time to leave others alone or go and help them and have fun.

 

Another thing to do is, if you're on PC: learn how to SPAWN MP vehicles in story mode, it will save you a ton of money, because you can then go in story mode, spawn them for free and test them all you need before making a decision.

 

Solo public lobby glitches are something many players resort to to avoid the hellscape that has filled public sessions.

 

As scummy as R* treatment to players is, there are still talented devs in there who do -from time to time- give us some fine new additions to the game, and we've already bought the game so no playing it is a loss on us, just learn to kill your hype, never buy ANYTHING on week #1, test in SP, help other players, and make sure your voice is heard.

 

and thanks again @fw3 for your kind reply.

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Lonely-Martin
5 minutes ago, The_MaVeRicK said:

Thank you @fw3

 

I agree with you that there's such an unwritten understanding between players and dev, but there is also a relation that builds over time, the devs seeing the playerbase as money piñatas has in turn changed our perspective on the devs and the game. To play or not play the game isn't our only choice after all.

 

They do all this to push players into buying shark cards, so the first obvious thing to do is never buy shark cards. The next thing would be to not push other players into shark cards and even help them avoid shark cards. So that means don't troll other players, don't ruin a sell they're making, and maybe even lend a hand if you see a player getting wrecked by a tryhard or give a few tips here and there ingame or in forums.

 

R* after all is treating tryhards like small children or pets when they put a red a marker on any player doing a sell or a solo activity and tell them to go "fetch", so we can choose to play the game but not as pets, there's a time for competitive gameplay with other players who want that and there's time to leave others alone or go and help them and have fun.

 

Another thing to do is, if you're on PC: learn how to SPAWN MP vehicles in story mode, it will save you a ton of money, because you can then go in story mode, spawn them for free and test them all you need before making a decision.

 

Solo public lobby glitches are something many players resort to to avoid the hellscape that has filled public sessions.

 

As scummy as R* treatment to players is, there are still talented devs in there who do -from time to time- give us some fine new additions to the game, and we've already bought the game so no playing it is a loss on us, just learn to kill your hype, never buy ANYTHING on week #1, test in SP, help other players, and make sure your voice is heard.

 

and thanks again @fw3 for your kind reply.

Just a damn shame RDRO is doing just the same but worse, lol. From day one, that game is picking off where this went. I do hope this trend eases, but until enough realise they are being treated this way, can't see the light at the end of that tunnel.

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The_MaVeRicK

That's a shame, and yeah ofc RDRO is doing the same, every gaming company out there right now has been trying to recreate GTAO's success for years now, it's one of the biggest reason the state of whole industry is a travesty.

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Cameron Star

I like GTAO and all but oh my god is it so grindy, and the inflation is ridiculous. When everything is locked behind 50+ hours of grinding or an £80 shark card it gets old and tiring real fast. It's worse when the best money making methods or the coolest content is locked behind PvP.

 

I don't want everything handed to me but I also don't want my playtime consumed by the grind. Artificially inflating playtime with unnecessary grinding sucks. Let me have fun or sod off.

 

Not touching RDRO with a ten metre stick if R* and GTAO ever taught me anything.

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xDONALDxTRUMPx1
On 12/15/2018 at 10:50 AM, kcole4001 said:

I find it important to find money making techniques that you enjoy, rather than submit to the same content over and over.

Change is necessary, or burnout is inevitable.

And in that mode it's hard to do, but sometimes you just have to take a break and remember what you enjoy most about the game.

 

It can get very tedious, but you have to have some goal to work toward.

If it's just accumulating more money, it's gonna get old real fast.

Good advice.

I don't grind missions any more. I never saw it as grinding. I just play the game, but I play things I like to do. There's a lot of stuff I avoid in GTAO because it's not my thing.

The things I like about GTAO are what make me the most money.

 

 

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fw3
10 hours ago, Jenkiiii said:

GTA online grinding has absolutely affected my attitude towards other video games, and I went into RDRO online with a fully aware approach from the start. No point dicking around and getting into feuds with others, just concentrate on hunting and missions that will generate RP and cash. If you don't, you'll fall behind very quickly. Fortunately RDRO rewards you for the grind, travelling and searching, as well as being so refreshing to get back to a time when robbing a store, stealing a muscle car, etc., had meaning, and when aiming for your first 1M GTAO dollars was a  real achievement. Arena Wars has further emphasised how far GTAO has moved away from its roots, so I'm thankful to RDRO for giving me the opportunity to be involved in Rockstar gaming excellence with a renewed sense of meaning to the unavoidable video game grind.

I really like your perspective on RDRO and that "full awareness" going into it. I think a lot of players, both new to the franchise and new to the GTAO-style of play may not have such an awareness.

I admit, I remember being annoyed when I bought GTAV on release day and finding out there was no online. I tinkered with the single player a little, but nothing more than running around and stealing cars.
With RDR2, I got on my son's account and did the exact same thing – tinkered around in single player a little, but nothing more than running around stealing, uh, horses. lol!

But to your point, those early day achievements were something very special, indeed. My first $100,000. Reaching level 100. Having a $999M bounty placed on me... oh wait, sorry. First rule of Fight Club.

Your closing phrase really sums up this thread very well: "A renewed sense of meaning to the unavoidable video game grind." 
It's just sad that we've come to a place on the gaming timeline where we actually have to say that. Cheers, @Jenkiiii !

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Skeve613

With the massive backlog of games/movies I've purchased on the cheap yet haven't played/watched, I'm basically done with grindy games that don't value my real world time, and streaming services of any type that give me needless hassle. 

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R3CON

While I do appreciate the need to give the player a sense of pride and accomplishment, I've often found the grind to be a detriment to fun. The tenuous nature of earning money in this game thanks to high prices and low payouts has reduced normal gameplay into a chore. It's also hijacked player mentalities into playing for the biggest reward in the shortest amount of time instead of the actual enjoyment of the gameplay. The natural, casual, hop-on-and-go vibe that makes a videogame fun after a long day has been replaced with a step-by-step itinerary of money making strategies. There's not much freedom in the game when it seems like anything less than a heist finale with the replay glitch or caving and buying into the paywall of the businesses or endlessly doing the same adversary mode is viewed as a waste of time. Too many decisions for acquiring new content are filtered through ideas of how well it helps you along your grinding, while other purchases without such returns (like say a classic car, or cosmetic upgrades for your outfit, or a new apartment) are passed to the side. There's enjoyment in the little things like driving around and customizing cars or having a random PvP battle for no reason or doing survivals just for the hell of it, but when money is your only motivation these things are looked down upon. Grinders also justify the increasing weaponization of the game simply because it helps them get around quicker or with more defenses, despite how much it contributes to the cancer of freeroam. I guess it doesn't matter if GTA goes to hell in a hand-basket with cookie-cutter repetitive fetch quests and Call of Duty-Saints Row style DLC as long as they get to grind a good return of investment.

 

I've never appreciated what the quest for money has done to the game. Although I will say that ire is best reserved for Rockstar, however, because these perspectives are a direct byproduct of the ever-present necessity to sell SharkCards. If money was easy to make without grinding there wouldn't be such a strong incentive to skip the grind and buy it now with real cash. Years ago I took money out of the situation when a modder gifted me with a couple billion fictional GTA dollars. Money I still have, no matter how flippantly I go through it. It's allowed me to avoid the grind and spend my time doing what I want, when I want. I could say no to doing the same jobs over and over, just because they paid well, and take chances with how I went about things since everything wasn't on the line all the time. I could play the unprofitable stuff without worry or spend freely without worry too. I could befriend players and help them out since I wasn't so preoccupied with my own reserves. Daily fees didn't put so much pressure on me, nor did research, blown up cargo and new DLC prices. I could finally see and appreciate the game for what it was - on the basis of it's entertainment value - and not continuously settle for mediocrity simply because it threw me some good cash. Where friends got burnt out and fled to other games I was able to hold on and continue the ride for a very, very long time after. I was having so much fun with the freedom of choice I had before me.

 

Going back to square one with Red Dead was a mixed bag. I loved the single-player aspect and how money was such a non-factor. I had freedom to go about the game how I pleased, even with the need to donate back to your camp, without worrying about my bank account. Coincidentally, there were no gold bars for the game to sell me. Money came and went yet I could attain what I wanted and save up for things over a reasonable time frame. There was a real sense of balance since I could easily switch up my play-style and preferred activities at will. Online is far different. I could play Red Dead story mode and get gun oils, tonics, clothing, gun modifications, etc. as I went along naturally. Online I'd have to grind it out just for one of those things. Even after the fix, prices Online are still a fair bit higher than they should be and payouts still lead you to prioritize income generation over raw fun. But I've been there and I've done that. I don't have time to play like that any more. So I simply get on, join friends and just go with the flow. Not making money like that? Oh well. Could probably spend more time hunting and fishing? Ehh...I'll pass. I'll do it when I feel like it and keep it moving. Doing the same missions over and over and over, despite how boring that becomes, just to afford a different coat? Just to start grinding all over again? Nope. The forced PvP aspect to it all (thanks to no passive mode or separate lobbies) only exacerbates all of the above and makes me log on less. A full week will go by before I touch the game and even then it's only because friends invited me to join them. Until more content is added, PvP is fixed and the grind becomes less of a factor, I'm over it. 

 

Fundamentally, I view video games as a form of entertainment. I don't need my fictional bank account to give me a sense of meaning, purpose and identity. I don't need to spend hours upon hours, week after week doing the same videogame tasks just to feel like content is worth my time. There are plenty of aspects to real life that offer all of those sensations with real benefits. All I want from my Playstation is to log on and have a pleasant experience. I don't need it to be a sense of pride in my life accomplishments. The grind is such a waste of time and energy for what are ultimately fictional acquisitions that are not even physically tangible. All the stress and planning and consistency that goes into the grind could go into other things in real life. So for me, I just want my games to stay in their lane. Don't rely on the grind to keep me invested. Put that energy into better gameplay and more side-content on offer. Give me more missions and more variety outside of freeroam. These days they merely settle for random Gold/SharkCard offers, put double cash on one, specific flavor of the week job (while literally everything else languishes in neglect), throw a few discounts on content that is already overpriced and call it a day. And to be fair to the company, it actually works! No further investment is required when money is all that counts. Maybe players would have higher expectations if they weren't so preoccupied by the grind. Because of my background with the modded cash, this will all be washed over with "he wants everything for free, so of course he feels that way" but that's not what I'm saying. I don't mind earning things naturally and/or feeding into a system of progression. I just don't want my sense of joy and freedom to be compromised in the process. Money shouldn't be this much of a factor this frequently, yet it is because it's profitable for the company's bottom line. What happened to enjoying a game just for the fun of it?  

Edited by R3CON

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RedDagger

Honestly, GTAO practically single-handedly killed my interest in AAA games for this very reason, but its gargantuan success is just indicative of the gaming landscape.

 

I don't really know how similar this post will be to my microtransactions one, but it's borne out of the same sentiment, what with the game replacing actual gameplay with this grind for trinkets. I've said this ever since GTAO released, and there's never been anything to make me think otherwise in the 5 years since release, but the only reason GTAO is any fun to play in the first place is because they have the base of GTA V. GTA V is a bloody good game, what with its mechanics, environment, performance, items and all, that all you need to do is slap on a basic multiplayer and you have a masterpiece of a multiplayer; plenty of single player games have had players yearning simply for the ability to play with their friends or other people with purely what the single player already has to offer and no more, and GTA is no exception. GTA SA sorta scratched the itch, GTA IV gave a more proper experience, and the focus of GTAO would surely allow for a more complete way to dick around with people and then have the addition of experiences tailored to multiplayer to add on to what GTA V already offers, but...it felt like R* had never seen a multiplayer game before, so we got the multiplayer GTA V we wanted, but implemented so badly that the GTAO specific portion of the game didn't add anything to the single player portion like most games' multiplayers do. It was fun, not because GTAO was fun, but because GTA V was fun. You were having fun in spite of R*'s multiplayer implementation, because you would have to really try to f*ck it up to somehow ruin what GTA V offered you with its update to the GTA formula. 

 

Which, incidentally, is what R* managed to do with their maintenance of GTAO.

 

Rockstar were seemingly just throwing things at the wall for a few years to see what would stick; there was no real focus on any specific bits of gameplay or any modes - the various now abandoned features are a testament to that. Even the belated heists, with as linear and ephemeral as they are, weren't the golden goose they were originally hyped up to be; instead, they struck gold with FAFF's CEO system, cementing a concept that had been slowly poured since the start - that of dangling expensive toys in front of players so that they'd grind whatever was the most rewarding grind at the time. It's just that, as we know now, the grind became the game - they didn't give you various missions and modes that you would pick and choose to grind, they would hand you your grind. Which, funnily enough, was symptomatic of the whole "you must have fun in the designated fun zones provided" that people had been making fun of since the start - despite GTA being the most well known open world sanboxy game, Rockstar are strangely hellbent on tightly defining how you have fun in the world; freeroam eventually turning into a gutted weaponised-vehicle grind-fest is just the eventuality of their philosophy. Whatever your opinions on Rockstar's intentions for how we got here, we're here: various neglected modes, with a clear focus on their grind. 

 

Grinding has been in games for yonks, but there's a reason I'm specifying the grind becoming the game - it was normally as a sort of meta goal, like getting max prestige or that hard-to-unlock cosmetic to show off your e-peen, but the game itself was divorced from that outside of level unlocks that were cool but didn't win you the game. When you flip that and make the grind the goal of a game session instead of fragging nerds, you essentially gut what makes gaming fun. Instead of "playing" you're "working". Sure, this is fine for a lot of people, but...personally, it just ruins the game. GTAO has you thinking about earning money, but not in a "let's grind drops from mobs so I can craft enough potions for the dungeon boss I wanna kill" way, but in a "the objective of this update for me is to get that car" way. It's...somewhat comparable, but I sincerely hope you can understand why the latter seems a far more depressing prospect than the former. You can just spawn the car in SP and get your enjoyment there, that's how inherently worthless it is, and yet you're barely doing actual gameplay for it; you're spending hours mindlessly doing actions specifically designed for you to mindlessly do them for hours, because that's how shallow the core gameplay of GTAO is. This isn't an MMO with a cool fighting system as like the point of the game that you're also spending time doing, you're just repeatedly doing the bare minimum for, essentially, nothing; the grind has become the game. 

 

So far, this is still disagreeable; so what? Well, the entire point is that this juxtaposes with what GTA is. If you take a game which is inherently grindy (mobile games are notorious for this), I'm not going to bemoan it as a travesty for the gaming industry - the game has set out to be an addictive grind fest, and as before, plenty of people like that sort of thing. I'm not going to complain that cookie clicker is a vapid slog dressed up with numbers and cute graphics with shallow gameplay just to suck out your time because that's the entire point of incremental games. And they're fun! Try out a dark room, crank, candy box or the aforementioned cookie clicker if you want a ride into that craze of a few years ago. But the point is, is that GTA is not an incremental game. It is not one of "those" mobile games. It is not an arcade cabinet. Not only does it have the potential for so much more if it had a competent team to make a multiplayer worthy of the single player experiences, doing the bare minimum and chucking an internet connection onto GTA's existing sandbox already nets you a fantastic experience (not to say that implementing multiplayer is easy, but this is just from a design perspective). The gameplay sells itself, and by and large, people want to be able to play it like that, because that's the draw of the game, and that's what it offers you among the growing hordes of video games vying for your attention. You get to shoot up a city with your buds or randos, go to a strip club, do street races, whatever. Rockstar knows this, but instead of focusing on this experience and enhancing it to something that makes potential players violently orgasm at the thought of what they could be playing, they left it mostly untouched sans expensive shooty toys, and locked it up behind the eponymous grindplay. Yes, sure, you can sandbox without any grind whatsoever, but all the gameplay additions - cars, customisation, clothing, weapons, gameplay bonuses etc. - get effectively pay-walled, and that's where the love goes. That's where the attention goes, so that's inevitably where the game is. Sure, you can still do lots of things without getting on the grind ride, but since Rockstar calls the shots on what gets attention, updates, addition etc. it just isn't good enough to say "well technically you don't need to grind..." because that's where the game is and that's how it's designed to be. 

 

I experienced this first hand: after my initial play on the 360 in the first few years of the game in which I mostly enjoyed dicking about, TDM and street races, their lack of gameplay maintenance in lieu of just adding more stuff didn't really get me all that enamoured with the game, and by the time I'd moved to PC I mostly got my fun out of races (stunt races, of course, because thanks Rockstar for your quality support of all of GTAO's content) as my main haunt and doing whatever else the game had to offer whenever I felt like it, mostly ignoring the grindy stuff since shooting NPCs in the face doesn't cost much money. But! I tired of using the same cars to race, and decided I wanted some new ones. I'd already done this a few times, so the crate grind wasn't new, - but the repetition was wearing thin, and as I was flying across los santos in a buzzard for the Nth time, it dawned on me how absurdly pointless this dance was. I wanna play GTA, why am I being forced to buzz around in a helicopter for hours on end? Why can I not just nick a car from someone's driveway or off the street, and seamlessly meet up in a street race with other players? And sure, you technically can; as before, you technically don't need to grind. But that's not where the game was - that's not where the races, the racers, the circuits, the checkpoints, the times, the leaderboards, the rewards and saved stats were; Rockstar's idea of fun was this menu-laden strictly controlled sterile environment, and it included this grinding to bat away the gameplay becoming stale. So, of course, I stopped grinding, and decided to hop into a (stunt) race to get some semblance of fun out of that day's GTA session. And like (stunt) races often are, it was pretty bad, and awkward, so I decided to call it a day and hopefully have fun on GTAO tomorrow. Multiple menus, loading screens and hanging in the clouds later (just to quit the game!), I just uninstalled the game instead.

 

If I hadn't played a load of games before GTAO it would no doubt be impressive and I might have even been more incredulous at the idea that something so expansive would garner a negative reaction from people who seem to want the game handed to them on a plate, but...it's just not how games did it. I wouldn't know that you don't need any gameplay unlocks to satiate the long-time players and give them something to beat newer players with; I wouldn't know that grinds are at their best as something you can track in-between rounds as an overarching meta goal but not as the gameplay itself; I wouldn't know that a game just being fun is what games do best. I might argue that the work and reward of the grind is satisfying, I might argue that all it needs is a price adjustment, I might argue about "entitlement", but I wouldn't have played things that show none of that matters, either. 

 

I just can't handle unnecessary grinds any more, and unfortunately modern games are chock full of list-checking and repetitive completion. I loved Just Cause 2; I pre ordered Just Cause 3, and have just 14 hours played. You need to complete arbitrary minigames to unlock stuff, and its shoehorned into the progression so that gave a similar lol-uninstall moment. I've played various betas and watched gameplay of many a game I've been interested in, and so many of them dangle rewards in your face or focus so much on some long-term bullsh*t or have lootboxes ingrained into the gameplay that it just isn't worth caring. This does, however, have a silver lining: whilst I previously have been focused on whatever game will give me the most satisfaction for shooting someone in the face or beating someone in a race or all your normal Action-Adventure AA/AAA gameplay (the answer is TF2 btw), I've now instead been looking at indie games, and let's just say I think Night In The Woods is unironically the best game ever. I have 20 hours in it vs the thousands in various FPS games, and it's like watching a uniquely cracking short film vs a conventionally good blockbuster TV series.

 

In conclusion, GTAO can, honestly, be fun, and I definitely think it's not objectively wrong to like it for the reasons I don't; but it should be recognised that the experience of GTAO is heavily weighted towards a crafted grind. Moreso, GTAO could be so much more than said grind, unfairly boxes you into said grind, and really shouldn't be the type of game that boxes you into a grind. The grind is not crafted to be fun (I mean it could be but Rockstar is bloody awful at mission design so who feckin' knows) and this is in detriment to the gameplay, and acts as a symbol of modern gaming where the race for money is itself in detriment to the gameplay, so go play Night In The Woods instead. 

 

tl;dr grind my arse lmao B-)

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Coleco

@RedDagger - I can't like your post above enough. Well said :)

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ALifeOfMisery

^ I wish the 2018 awards weren't being skipped even more now, easily post of the year.

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CaliMeatWagon

I need the grind, I need goals. Without it I wonder around aimlessly, and quickly get bored. 

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MisFit-138

I dont get it. When I get sick of grinding, I simply stop. Zero consequences. Never bought a Shark Card, doubt I ever will. Playing since day one, 2 characters at 485-ish all with CEO, biker clubhouses and businesses, gunrunning facility, nightclub, 5 apartments, the doomsday facility, yachts, hangars, and arena access. I don't own everything nor do I care to. Yes, Rockstar wants you to buy shark cards, you dont have to do anything though. THAT is the beauty of it all, imo. It only becomes a grind if you're playing "keeping up with the Jonses". Neither character has a Deluxo or Oppressor MK2 and never will.

Edited by MisFit-138

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CaliMeatWagon
4 hours ago, MisFit-138 said:

I dont get it. When I get sick of grinding, I simply stop. Zero consequences. Never bought a Shark Card, doubt I ever will. Playing since day one, 2 characters at 485-ish all with CEO, biker clubhouses and businesses, gunrunning facility, nightclub, 5 apartments, the doomsday facility, yachts, hangars, and arena access. I don't own everything nor do I care to. Yes, Rockstar wants you to buy shark cards, you dont have to do anything though. THAT is the beauty of it all, imo. It only becomes a grind if you're playing "keeping up with the Jonses". Neither character has a Deluxo or Oppressor MK2 and never will.

 

I think the people who are caught up in consumerism don't realize that they are the butt of Rockstars jokes. Rockstar putting the PoS tractor as the reward for AP Level 1,000, and the people complaining about it, seem to be proof of this. 

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alkaline_

i've read this topic while laying in my fluffy bed scratching my fluffy belly hihihi. yesterday i thought let's play some gta and gain some ap points, because i want the clowny clown car hihihi so i joined a tag team and everybody left me alone. the game forced two players to join me anyway, butt they decided to quit. then there were spectators, but instead giving them to me, they joined the purple team which had 3 players already. so it was 4 / 5 / one fluffy penguin. it was set to 4 rounds and i didn't have a chance. in the end i earned i think 15 AP points after 15 minutes of playtime. i was like no, it's not worth the clowny clown car hihihi and went off. i don't like being forced to do something, especially not in a video game which should give me a fluffy time while i'm forgetting about real life struggles bubble troubles hihihi

 

@R3CON & @RedDagger truly crispy posts. me likey!

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Lonely-Martin
14 hours ago, CaliMeatWagon said:

I need the grind, I need goals. Without it I wonder around aimlessly, and quickly get bored. 

 

4 hours ago, CaliMeatWagon said:

I think the people who are caught up in consumerism don't realize that they are the butt of Rockstars jokes. Rockstar putting the PoS tractor as the reward for AP Level 1,000, and the people complaining about it, seem to be proof of this. 

Game's all about it, pretty clear from day one really.

 

Do find it funny you need the grind, but then knock those that do grind. Of course, deliberate bait again Cali, but I found it funny none the less.

 

Go get ya tractor, lol. I'm just gonna have fun with the game.

 

#imagination ;)

Edited by Lonely-Martin
Wording.

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CaliMeatWagon
25 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

 

Game's all about it, pretty clear from day one really.

 

Do find it funny you need the grind, but then knock those that do grind. Of course, deliberate bait again Cali, but I found it funny none the less.

 

Go get ya tractor, lol. I'm just gonna have fun with the game.

 

#imagination ;)

 

I can see how it would be funny viewed that way. 
I was more meaning having things to work towards vs. the "I need everything" groups.

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Lonely-Martin
20 minutes ago, CaliMeatWagon said:

I can see how it would be funny viewed that way. 
I was more meaning having things to work towards vs. the "I need everything" groups.

I get ya, partly agree too. After long though, our cash just builds and it's nice to collect things up. But most of it came naturally.

 

For me, that keen desire to died when I lost my old account to old gen manipulations, all my clothes and beer hats etc. Though I started over again, I've not put as much emphasis on much, trophies mainly, but again, most comes naturally. Though as I got close, that 1000 crates statue I did push for a bit and that was the start of me realising R* are taking the piss with us. That last 100 or so runs was a bit of a chore, but it was on me for getting sucked in. Then research, now this random unlocking, it's really not for me.

 

That Blista is something I really wanted and with friends it was more about time with them as much as grinding. Though it took it's toll, lol. It was just nice to see old friends keen to do some co-op as 2 had lost interest in the game a fair bit between the DLC's so had to make the most.

 

But like you there, I set my own little goals. And I love to help noobs, so money and my car collection just built up through my role playing or heists really. There was a time where just my regular Dominator was more than enough. 

 

Still is a very regular drive. Though as a racer, I did need a couple of toys too of course. Such a shame that R* look to add faster and faster cars rather than balance the grid a bit more.

 

If it all comes along the way, great. But this game has helped me and my OCD ways a fair bit. No complaints there. :)

Edited by Lonely-Martin
That was longer than I thought, my bad.

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Up2NoGood45

"The Grind" appeals to my personality.  I enjoy listening to my music and just grinding out the Client missions with VIP missions in between.  A few hours of that and I have close to a million bucks.  And then I sell the NC goods for another million.  

 

For me it's great.  I treat the game like a time management game.  In free roam I'm almost always in passive, I'm not interested in combating other players at all.  But I kind of enjoy accumulating all the goods the game has to offer.  I bought the Arena Wars shop and 2 floors and all the vehicles and still have 140M in the bank just from grinding (ridiculous prices those AW vehicles LOL) .  But I'm not interested in the Arena Wars races AT ALL.  They are just another adversary mode.  

 

So I keep on grinding and if I get sick of it I just let the game AFK for a day and go back to it.  

 

I really don't play other games other than Forza Horizon 3 every once in a while and I suppose I'll buy Forza 4 when the price comes down.  

 

Also...I come from the era of Pac Man and Donkey Kong arcade games as well.  And I remember thinking how smart Mathew Broderick was with computers in "War Games"  LOL

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Hellbendzor

Once again a great post and valid question, FW...

 

I've been on the grind for quite a few years in GTA... Apart from the dullness of it and burning up eventually (which I did), I tried to refresh boring fetch/sell/goto missions by using other methods, new vehicules,...

 

What I absolutely despise at the moment, is how Rockstar constantly eliminates harmless (to the game) methods/tricks long time players invent and use to refresh the endless bore, that is grinding...

 

Combine that with the fact that everyone is at constant and omnipresent risk of being hacked by the modmenu users. This can/will not be fixed by Rockstar. This forced folks in solo public sessions.

 

But whenever it hurts their microtransactions it needs to be immediately taken care of. IMWO to them the playerbase are just a bunch of cows that need to milked completely dry (financially).

 

At the present, I feel like an idiot by grinding for things as I feel i'm fighting a losing battle against boredom, constantly diminishing returns and these hateful tweaks to otherwise useless vehicules/planes to block players from effectively using them. The fact that these vehicules don't come cheap (bombushka) and never can (or are allowed to) give any form of ROI, really makes you go 'hmmmmm'.

 

I don't mind 'working' a lil to get stuff, but this is getting ridiculous. Look at what they implemented in Arena Wars... WTF. I did three rounds and the (team) unbalance was hilarious. 

 

What GTA online really learned me, was to not get caught in this whole strategy anymore. Games need to be a fun and entertaining place, not a cyberspace version of real life work combined with a boss (gaming company) that constantly tweaks the rules/pay to put more workload on you (and your broken back) while increasing his profit.

 

---------------------------------------------

 

What will I do next for future games? I dunno, I think we're on a new set path to more of the above. I'll probably grind some more in newer games.  Like FW, I come from that first gaming generation where a coin and some skills equalled lots of fun, but not a grind. My kids start with games that are based around microtransactions (getting new skins, abilities, gliders, emotes, weapon skins,... u name it). So I try to inform them and educate them on how they're being played. Sometimes I'm succesful, sometimes I fork out cash to put a smile on their faces. 

 

I think grinding (but with an ever constant diminishing return) is the new norm... If you take a step back, we as players, are actually the ones who are being played...

I don't like it, but there's not much you can do really, apart perhaps limiting your own gaming time/ material desires, thus forcing you to enjoy games more instead of gaming for fake ingame cash.

Not easy with the current psychology behind games...

 

Seeing many of the great posts in here, I'm glad I'm not alone in this feeling...

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Charlottes

Yeah, this kind of sucks a lot, especially considering the fact that the criminal enterprise starter pack is even needed. Like, if you actually want to play the hottest, newest content, then you gotta pay the same price you paid for the base game again to catch up to a point! Like...i get that you need a sense of progression, but it should be for doing things that are actually fun? like...none of the things that GTA asks you do to do get the millions that these paywalls require is actually fun, and even when you've paid it all off, it's rarely fun enough for it to be worth the amount of time you've poured into them

 

I guess the point is, i dont want to think about money. I don't want to say "Oh, I only have to do this activity on repeat for 5 real life hours to afford the dumb new trinket i want! It's boring as hell and it sucks and I have better, funner things to be doing. I want to be thrown at a bunch of activities and then have a good time playing them, and then, afterwards, i want to be like "oh, looks like the fun things that i've been doing have gotten me enough money for a fun item! nice!"

 

I know this is kind of incoherent and i guess the point is that it'd be nice if i could pick the game up after a few weeks of not playing and just have a good time. I wish i could get my friends to play the game and they could get access to the fun new things that they're into without arbitrarily having to put down a few million fake ingame dollars first to get the weird prerequisites for those things. There's no way to sell this game to friends because it's just an absolutely miserable experience to go through before you can actually have a good time

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