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fw3

[GTAO] Has the Endless "Grindplay" Methodology Run it's Course?

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fw3

A basic question: How has game grinding affected your approach to playing games, especially newer games, and was your experience with GTAO a factor in that approach?

What I mean is, many of the early GTAO adopters jumped into the grind and never looked back. Grinding missions like Rooftop, Pot Shot, and Coveted for the ease of play and money.

But often, that grind included mind-numbingly dull missions, endless laps in forgettable races, and being online for hours and hours, just to grab hold of the prize: GTA$.

So, with more recent games, like Far Cry 5 where you're forced to follow a narrative storyline and grind to find elements within the environment, or even Skyrim where you have to search for artifacts or even herbs and plants, the grind may not be for money, but instead requires hours and hours of time hunting or searching for things.

A game like Fallout and the whole workstation concept to develop better gear can get old for many players who just want to jump in and play.

And that's where I'm at. I come from the Pong and Pac Man era, where you dropped a coin and could play for an hour, if you were good.
Even the early Mario games had us hunting for coins, though we couldn't spend them on anything.

But what about upcoming games, starting with GTAO and going into RDRO and whatever new games come next?

TL;DR:
Are we - the current gaming generation - burning out on the whole "grind" gameplay style or is it just beginning?

As @Watain said in another thread discussion, "I will never, ever again put this much work into a game." 
And I can't help but agree with that salient point and after five years, I'm burned out of it and refuse to play that way in GTAO, any more.

As for other games, well, as I've said elsewhere, it's why I have no interest in RDRO.
But what will GTAVI or GTAO2 hold in store for us? In-game ads, like we see in mobile apps? Tiered levels of pay-to-play? More push on Shark Card-like purchasing?

Curious as to your thoughts on your GTAO grinding experiences and what your outlook toward the future of "grindplay" will be, not only with future GTAO iterations, but all games.

Cheers!

jm5Cn9Xrf0SN5r3IyeqpuA_0_0.jpg
 

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kcole4001

I find it important to find money making techniques that you enjoy, rather than submit to the same content over and over.

Change is necessary, or burnout is inevitable.

And in that mode it's hard to do, but sometimes you just have to take a break and remember what you enjoy most about the game.

 

It can get very tedious, but you have to have some goal to work toward.

If it's just accumulating more money, it's gonna get old real fast.

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Lonely-Martin

An interesting question really, fw3.

 

In short, yes. This game will have an effect long term on me as I am far more aware of how games are becoming just this. Grind, or pay to avoid it. With microtransactions  impacting the grind to make paying more appealing. 

 

That said, I don't mind 'fetch quests' and I feel they are the basis of much that is GTA really. And as a sim gamer as much as racer at heart, with all these cars, I could literally drive until the end of time, lol. I love cruising in my babies.

 

I rarely grinded here though, mostly the odd 2x like MC contracts or contact missions during 2x spells and heists on the rare times they got one. Never cut corners and duped or anything. Just stuff that me and others could all score well from as I like co-op. Otherwise, I just do what I fancy and love to mix it all up. I'd still run businesses all over if I wasn't hampered by others so often that I had to stop because it's not true PvP, favours the attack just too much, and the toxicity in some is truly disturbing. Not there for that, just some gaming, though found myself drawn in so pulled back from that part of GTA:O. Still plenty of fun out there though.

 

And because RDRO is worse IMO, I've flat out rejected it so far. All I have is 8 missions there (aside hunting and fishing, story mode stuff I did much of already), so it became far too boring quickly. Can't have that. I need variety and more choice how I play, not herded into conflict all the time. These games are far better than that, well, should be IMO. Time will tell and I'll wait until next years announced 'anti grief' stuff comes before choosing to go again or not there, but I'm not expecting it to draw me in at all. Such a shame considering story mode is so wonderful. This game caused that so as much as I love it here, its impact is growing in a bad way for me.

 

Here though, teamwork thrived so often, these forums helped so much too, be it a nugget of knowledge shared or another helped make something like CMM a synch. I cannot fault it really. Yes, it gets expensive, but for the whole journey, aside a redo because of mod attack, I was easily able to stay ahead. This DLC for example, I bought my property and got stuck in, tuned a Dominator partly too. I'm back over $60m and that'll just grow through default fun (though I will blast a good $10m or more once trade prices are unlocked and the dripfeed). Any business except the hangar, I made more than double the investment, often hitting $30m or more with each, never bored me to sell or resupply. I'm a PvE/role player too, plays right into my hands really. Even grinding this Go-Go Blista right now, I'm chatting sh*t and hanging with buddies. Becomes a breeze then. (Though do feel this is a particularly harsh way needed to get a car, but I want it and it is easy).

 

I wanted RDRO to compliment this but it's just far too much. 0.whatever gold from jobs, f*ck that. You just know more content comes and the economy gets warped further to favour buying it. I just won't do that. It disappointed me so much right now that I am at a loss for words really (sort of #rambleshere).

 

Like RDRO, any game that favours becoming a chore that much, or removes PvE to favour PvP completely, I'm out and very critical of. Gaming, my hobby, is at a real crossroads going forward as I don't like where it's going. I'm being pushed out because I want to play and not grind/pay. So I've been buying up loads of old games in case this GTA dies out and the future remains as bleak.

 

As it stands, unless the bubble bursts, I fear for the future of GTA even. If today's trends continue to grow, I know my days are numbered. And thats a really sh*tty prospect/feeling. So I'm just enjoying now and we'll just have to see. Shame though, this game unlocked some serious potential.

 

Oops, mega ramble, lol. Peace out.

Edited by Lonely-Martin
Wording.

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JustCallMeNiko

A good philosophical question about gaming in general!

 

Most successful games need to have some elements of a grind to keep players coming back...as much as people like to have options about how to play a game they also need a direction and some kind of future goal to keep them engaged...ultimately players need a reason to keep coming back or else the game just feels "finished" and they move on to another game...

 

My first experience with endless grinding was the original Phantasy Star series from Sega so it has pretty much always been a necessary game mechanic for any RPG type game...

 

After years of gaming I've become much more selective about which games I dabble in...I know it will take many hours to unlock the content and I don't have that much time to waste...

 

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J-Scott-D
8 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

I find it important to find money making techniques that you enjoy, rather than submit to the same content over and over.

Change is necessary, or burnout is inevitable.

And in that mode it's hard to do, but sometimes you just have to take a break and remember what you enjoy most about the game.

 

It can get very tedious, but you have to have some goal to work toward.

If it's just accumulating more money, it's gonna get old real fast.

This is my GTAO philosophy. On my legit account, I made my fortune doing just VIP work and spawning the Dubsta 2 to sell every 48 minutes. 

 

I enjoy flying helicopters in the game, so a lot of the money making revolved around using the Buzzard.

 

The moment it felt like work, it would get boring for me. 

 

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Pedinhuh

I am never subjecting myself to the kind of grind that this game made me go through in the past, be it by contact missions, heists, crates or even I/E, the sheer monotony of the repetition of each mission was enough to make me want to rip my eyeballs off, never again...Currently I only do Bunker and Nightclub sales because I don't see these as grinding and I can take a complete hands-off approach with nightclubs(which is great but at the expense of wear and tear on my console).

 

Now I really only play for fun while making money with the two businesses I mentioned, so you might usually see me on races and Arena War.

Edited by Pedinhuh

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Coranub

6500 hours and i still enjoy logging on, but having goals for the session as well as long term goals combined with taking breaks playing other games alongside gta online keeps it interesting and fun for me. 🤗

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SpatchCock

Glitches all the way.

 

I'm done grinding.

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Nutduster

Part of why I quit GTA Online is a growing allergy to grind-play.  It's also a larger part of why I am (at least so far) abstaining from Red Dead Online.  On a basic level I don't think this is good game design.  It's addictive, but it's not actually fun and doesn't reward skill or thoughtfulness, just tenacity and infinite patience.  I think more designers have come around to the realization that they can keep people playing (and buying dem microtransactions) if they simply provide a basic feedback loop of monotonous grind, periodically interrupted with a minor power increase or new plaything.  Or even just a completely useless collectable.

 

Of course, these concepts have some resemblance to good, non-grindy gameplay as well.  You'd have to look long and hard for a current game that doesn't at least dip a toe in these waters.  But the farther in they go, the farther out I am on the game as a whole.  GTA Online was the first and last game for me that took it to such an extreme.  I really felt on many days like the game was my second job, and I'm not going down that road again.  Life's too short.

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Vitalize

I've kind of stopped grinding. I don't have any more motivation or any will power in me to grind anymore. All it is for me anymore is just

-log on

-pay 75,000 to resupply businesses

-act 2 glitch 3 times

-get off

that's how i make all my money now currently. 

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FlacidJack

As others said, great question fw3!

I don't own RDR2 yet but from what I see it looks amazing and full of things to do ...but most gamers these days don't care about the vast beauty and immersive content, all they seem to want from the games they play is more digits and solely playing the one activity that allows them to maximize their digits / money.

 

I've obviously played like that too, like when I wanted a yacht for example, but I never grind digits just to have more digits and GTAO rarely gets boring for that reason. That said I would love for GTAO to be more like Fallout 4 with some kind of collective to work on that makes gameplay better / easier and more importantly, gives us a real feeling of owning a part of the map.

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Fun 2

I miss the old days of purchasing paid DLCs and getting to enjoy all the content included with it.

Nowadays, developers stretch it so that each and every content added is essentially an item that you should grind for.

As if they are throwing at you small pieces of DLC content and rather than paying to obtain the whole package, you pay to obtain "cash" which is very limited and won't offer you all the content but only what you're capable of purchasing with that "cash".

Even though I'm frustrated, all of our complaints is on one side and then there's the other side which consists of developers, studios and publishers.

I understand they have problems too, and if they don't make much money, they can't operate properly.

What I would like to know is where did it all go wrong, the recent change to the gaming industry, is it because of greed or publishers implementing their strategies because they won't believe you when you say "this game is so popular, it will make so much money" ?

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thepiebaker

Many games use grind to inflate the gameplay. It's not this gen but many gens that do so. Lego games going back to the 1st Lego star wars original xbox and ps2 era have collecting stubbs as currency. But from someone who started gaming a generation (terms of being born not gaming generation) after the arcade games I did get baptized by playing arcade collections on my parents desktop since I was the only one without "cooties" in my neighborhood growing up. Those games are a grind themselves running the same patterns and algorithms and increasing speed every round with you grinding to the high score. 

 

RPGs have various grind elements to increase a level or gain currencies. The difference between gtao and the elder scrolls is ways to grind and the illusion of grind. Gtao doesn't hide that you're grinding. Elder scrolls has ways to hide the grind. Other games you see an end to the grind, when you have enough for the super de uber gear but gtao we have the end dangled in the sights with a shart card shortcut but like the carrot on stick it's always out of reach

 

Seeing this grind in gtao is the reason I never considered getting into rdr2. It WILL turn into the same grind or die how it is now.

 

3 hours ago, kcole4001 said:

I find it important to find money making techniques that you enjoy, rather than submit to the same content over and over.

Change is necessary, or burnout is inevitable.

And in that mode it's hard to do, but sometimes you just have to take a break and remember what you enjoy most about the game.

 

It can get very tedious, but you have to have some goal to work toward.

If it's just accumulating more money, it's gonna get old real fast.

I always preferred the passive grind. While it takes longer to get to the destination but I enjoy myself as opposed to working a second job to the point i dont want to enjoy myself. An active grind makes the end of the grind the destination as opposed to a means to an end. 

 

 

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thepiebaker
35 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

 

What I would like to know is where did it all go wrong, 

It's not a single point but a whole porcupine of point that went into the right turn at Albuquerque.

 

1st the art departments require more budgets as the ever increasing graphic details require more love and attention. 4k graphics is more than 4 times as expensive as 1080p graphics. If you want a permanent lesson in this go to a tattoo artist and get 2 of the same tattoo from the same arist on yourself. For one offer your artist $50 and the second offer $500 and see the difference in quality. 

 

2. Gamers start judging games based on length of playtime. Size of world. Yadda. Developers have to compete with one another to make longer stories, larger worlds. Which costs development time and budget. 

 

3. Games used to get by with a team of 30 or so developers and now depending on game and studio it can take hundreds.

 

4. Games can take 5+ years to finish. Back on the Atari it used to be a few months, the shortest development cycle on the Atari was 2 weeks but we shall never talk about that game... 

 

5. Games now have a standard of online services, cloud servers, and tech support. Those require more money. 

 

 

These days games are sold at a loss. Unless the game sells like gta5, rdr2, or child online daycare they cant hope to break even at the current rates of purchase numbers and pricetag. If the sale numbers remain they need to increase price tags by at least 50% but we've been around the internet enough to know how everyone will freak out like they did when publishers increased AAA pc game price tags to $60 as opposed to $50pc and $60console. 

 

Business models compared gtao's is superior to a gotcha concept that's been plaguing the mobile systems. Grind or not. 

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GenericGTAO

The most recent update feels as if R* definitely has not gotten the message that grinding is really not that fun.  A gold trophy, an alien easter egg, cmm 3 times.  I am going to skip arena wars grind.  Its seems like they put alot of these trophies in just to get vets back.  I beat GTAO now they add all this stuff with acheivement locks. These modes will wear off quickly, I played about 10 of them and thought, I am not grinding this.  I was basically done at Nightclubs.  It had just the right amount of grind, but these arena wars, where you unlock clothes prices.  Well, I am finally not going to own all clothes, because I am not paying full price and definitely not unlocking these shirts one at a time.  I cannot even figure out exactly what you have to do to unlock stuff.  Maybe its less complicated, but I a couldnt figure it out after play 10 games.  I may play GTA intermittently when RDO is getting too boring.

Edited by GenericGTAO

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Rafae

Yes, it has. A long time ago for me actually, right up until After Hours. I used to think Rockstar were somewhat untouchable when it came to Online's updates. That update told me everything I needed to know going forward lol.

 

The run up to that update is the last time I genuinely grinded (ground?) in this game. Never again.

 

Edited by Rafae

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Commander S

See, I'm the opposite with GTAO: grinding isn't really an issue, because ...what the heck am I going to spend any of that money on? :dontgetit:

 

I'd genuinely love it to have a GTAO update roll around, and not have enough money for all the stuff I wanted - as it is, even without playing for months at a time, I've got something like $5 million, which is more than enough to spend $500k on the one new car that I think is half-decent. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

For me to have to worry about grinding in GTAO, R* would need to add an interesting business/property (clubhouses for cars, R* - doo eet!), sort out their terrible clothing/textures and put some interesting duds into the stores for the first time in years, and put in half a dozen well-sculpted, well-designed sports cars (so not like the ZR380 or Jester Classic, then... :turn:). And after years of updates getting less and less appealing, I'm not holding out hope for that many ifs and maybes.

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Dom C4rt3r
1 hour ago, GenericGTAO said:

The most recent update feels as if R* definitely has not gotten the message that grinding is really not that fun.  A gold trophy, an alien easter egg, cmm 3 times.  I am going to skip arena wars grind.  Its seems like they put alot of these trophies in just to get vets back.  I beat GTAO now they add all this stuff with acheivement locks. These modes will wear off quickly, I played about 10 of them and thought, I am not grinding this.  I was basically done at Nightclubs.  It had just the right amount of grind, but these arena wars, where you unlock clothes prices.  Well, I am finally not going to own all clothes, because I am not paying full price and definitely not unlocking these shirts one at a time.  I cannot even figure out exactly what you have to do to unlock stuff.  Maybe its less complicated, but I a couldnt figure it out after play 10 games.  I may play GTA intermittently when RDO is getting too boring.

Yo fancy seeing you here 👍 

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gtafan26

Im done grinding and have been for a good amount of time.    I dont mind having to work for things in games, and having a little bit of a grind is ok to get it, but not at the level that Online is, life is too short for that/this bullsh*t grinding in GTA Online.

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Shadowfennekin

I only 'grind' when enjoyable event weeks are going on.

I keep Bunker and NC active and running, and pay for DJ change every 2 hours along with feeding my Bunker 75k every run, while enjoying things like Arena Wars and PvE content like Client Jobs, Heists, and occasionally missions.

 

I don't even touch I/E much anymore, I just don't find the actual businesses you need to put effort into selling fun.

And yes, I'm going to glitch now. f*ck this expensive update. If only Act 2 glitch was an option for me I'd do it, but you need 'friends' 🙄

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RyuNova

GTA Online has killed RDR Online for me.

I just cannot be arsed starting from nothing again and the abundance of content makes RDR Online look shallow.

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elfoam

I doesn't matter what gaming evolves into in the future. There have already been enough games made that you can not possibly play them all in the span of a human lifespan. So if you don't want to be annoyed by the future, look to the past. 

6 hours ago, gtafan26 said:

Im done grinding and have been for a good amount of time.    I dont mind having to work for things in games, and having a little bit of a grind is ok to get it, but not at the level that Online is, life is too short for that/this bullsh*t grinding in GTA Online.

Yep most of us have already wasted a good percentage of our lives on this one game. Hopefully no one wasted their prime years on it. Never again though

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RyuNova
3 minutes ago, elfoam said:

Yep most of us have already wasted a good percentage of our lives on this one game. Hopefully no one wasted their prime years on it. Never again though

 

Its not wasted time if you enjoyed wasting it. 

You think this is bad you wanna see how much time I have put into Bethesda games.

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SpatchCock
7 hours ago, gtafan26 said:

Im done grinding and have been for a good amount of time.    I dont mind having to work for things in games, and having a little bit of a grind is ok to get it, but not at the level that Online is, life is too short for that/this bullsh*t grinding in GTA Online.

Same, I still like to play the game aswell and if the mood takes me I'll jump all over double $$ event weeks. The problem with a lot of the glitches is that they can become 'The Grind'. Granted, they are phenomenally more profitable but still kinda sole destroying.

 

For a while I was balking at anything that involved drinking beer, which seemed to be most of the solo dupe glitches at the time, I couldn't bring myself to do it anymore it was mind-numbing, so I went back to playing the game. LOL.

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alkaline_

my problem is, that i'm a numbers penguin, like, i always need to make sparkly money when playing, not wasting time not earning money when playing and so on... so i'm having a good amount of cash in my virtual pockets because i grinded and grinded. butt with after hours and the popularity missions it began to break, i was tired of doing them for so little reward and actually felt like i'm using all this time, earn almost nothing, exactly what rockstar wants, rockstar doesn't own me like that and let the popularity missions be. then arena wars came and i thought, i only buy what i want and don't care about the unlocks and what not. like fluffy @555-We-Tip said, it's freeing actually.

 

oh and the grind is the reason, i didn't buy RDR2, eventhough i d love to go fishy fishing hihihi!!! also i don't know if i will play gta6, because how fluffy @Lonely-Martin said, they could introduce crunchy but also very uncrunchy things. if gta6 offers a nice character creator and maybe a more vivid world i'm in, but just for the fluffy stuff. unlocks never made me life better nor do i wear them exclusive shirts and stuff hihihi let's see.

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RyuNova
1 hour ago, RyuNova said:

GTA Online has killed RDR Online for me.

I just cannot be arsed starting from nothing again and the abundance of content makes RDR Online look shallow.

 

I mean I used alot of the free gold and cash to buy what I wanted like the Rifleman Gloves and dual revolvers ad the bow and pole but what do I have to do now? Everything people are gloating about can be done in Single Player like Fishing and Hunting.

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Dr.Rosenthal

The thing is, that at the moment I really don’t think that RDO is grindy. Me and my friends usually do Stranger missions, which are so varied that they rarely feel grindy - and, besides, they work like Business Battles in the sense that you appear on radar and other players can come after you, and that makes it a lot more exhilarating (without the loss potential of GTAO cargo, bunker, or MC sales).

And when we’ve done those for a while and happen to be in a good fishing spot, we take a break to do some fishing. If I find myself in good hunting territory or where there’s plenty of herbs, I do a bit of that. Then, when you feel like doing purely competitive stuff, you go for Showdown series or maybe some horse races.

 

In short, I feel that RDO feels like less of a grind even though maybe it is. I try to make the most money, but not so much as to stay in Bluewater Marsh all the time and farm Herons, going back and forth to the butcher. I can’t/won’t play like that. Levelling up and getting money doesn’t feel as important either as it did with GTAO. I’m just enjoying the experience. But at the same time, even from the start, that’s what I did with GTAO too, enjoying the experience (often even while grinding/replaying Rooftop Rumble or doing races for example). The most grindy part of GTAO for me was crate collecting, and even that became pretty fun after a long break from it (and especially when knowing there was 2x on those sales).

 

But I think one thing that’s helped me to enjoy ”grinding” is playing with friends, it just makes the game much more fun to play if you have buddies there with you.

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kcole4001

It really comes down to how you see it.

Not much fun = grind.

Finding some way to play and have fun while making money = just playing the game how you want.

More enjoyment per hour than money.

 

Early on when you have very little money and everything still costs millions, there's too much incentive to make it a grind, where it's all about maximum efficiency or money per hour.

Later you can have the luxury of making it more about gameplay.

You just have to get it out head that you need to make so much per hour,and set other goals.

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fw3
13 hours ago, thepiebaker said:

It's not a single point but a whole porcupine of point that went into the right turn at Albuquerque.

 

1st the art departments require more budgets as the ever increasing graphic details require more love and attention. 4k graphics is more than 4 times as expensive as 1080p graphics. If you want a permanent lesson in this go to a tattoo artist and get 2 of the same tattoo from the same arist on yourself. For one offer your artist $50 and the second offer $500 and see the difference in quality. 

 

2. Gamers start judging games based on length of playtime. Size of world. Yadda. Developers have to compete with one another to make longer stories, larger worlds. Which costs development time and budget. 

 

3. Games used to get by with a team of 30 or so developers and now depending on game and studio it can take hundreds.

 

4. Games can take 5+ years to finish. Back on the Atari it used to be a few months, the shortest development cycle on the Atari was 2 weeks but we shall never talk about that game... 

 

5. Games now have a standard of online services, cloud servers, and tech support. Those require more money. 

 

 

These days games are sold at a loss. Unless the game sells like gta5, rdr2, or child online daycare they cant hope to break even at the current rates of purchase numbers and pricetag. If the sale numbers remain they need to increase price tags by at least 50% but we've been around the internet enough to know how everyone will freak out like they did when publishers increased AAA pc game price tags to $60 as opposed to $50pc and $60console. 

 

Business models compared gtao's is superior to a gotcha concept that's been plaguing the mobile systems. Grind or not. 

This reply, @thepiebaker, is so relevant and on-point (all the porcupine points, in fact), that I laughed, cried, and nodded a lot when reading it.

I especially felt my heart skip at the mention of "that game." Great references/analogies here!

Ironically, the point-of-purchase prices of the games we play haven't soared ridiculously.
In the late 1980s throughout the 1990s, games for the Apple ][E, Atari2600 & 5200, Commodore64, NES, Sega Gen, and even the TI-99/4A were all priced around $49.99.

When I bought GTAV, it cost $59.99. A mere $10 difference between GTAV at launch and the original Dig Dug at launch. I still shake my head at that.

However, the difference is that if Dig Dug were released now, the game would be $59.99 and you'd have to grind to locate hidden buried treasure crates, save enough to buy snake repellent, a golden shovel, and cool new outfits.
And heaven forbid we find our way to Dig Dug Online, the purchase of Rock Cards would be the only way to go: Quartz Card = $100,000, Pumice Card = $200,000... etc. up to Gold Card = $8M.

I'm being facetious, of course, but what I'm trying to say is that while the POP prices of games hasn't changed all that much in 35 years.
But, the introduction of "buy the game, then keep buying the game once you start playing" is going to get worse before it gets better, I think.

I mean, look at the effect that microtransactions has had on cable television! "If you want to watch the new Star Trek: Discovery, you'll have to pay to was CBS OnDemand. Just $6.99 per month." What the???

When I was young, cable companies were competing with the big networks. So, when you subscribed to cable tv, you got a package deal including a whole bunch of stations that had NO commercials and were independent of the FCC.

Now, oddly enough, the big networks can't compete with the cable companies and the cable companies can't contain the independent cable channels like AMC or FX anymore, who run more commercials than networks!
And what's worse, is that channels like AMC are offering premium, commercial-free programming and "binge available" shows for a price.

It's infuriating to people my age, who grew up with simplicity and availability to see all this nefarious penny-pinching and soul crushing technology ruining the basic luxury of entertainment.

I mean, I can't tell you how many times we get the "We're having trouble connecting to your XFinity X1 Platform. Please unplug the unit and restart the device" when we just wanna watch "Two & a Half Men" reruns.

I sincerely miss the days of getting off my butt to change channels, whacking the side of the tv to get better reception, or spending 10 minutes getting the rabbit ears juuuuuuuuust right! Ah!! THERE IT IS!! YES!!!

Anyway, I ramble. Sorry. Cheers! :)

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alkaline_
22 minutes ago, Dr.Rosenthal said:

sparkly stuff

 

14 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

crunchy stuff

yes, even though i've played the flippy contact missions more than it can be good for your health, they never felt that grindy - after each dlc doing contact missions with the new whips was always sparkly. gta online would be so much better, if they always threw in some new contact missions and survivals. the basic, classic and pearly stuff you know. i'm not against arena war and other modes and what not, just don't forget about the timeless classics ai ai ai!!

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