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Bravado Buffalo

Declasse Vamos Appreciation Thread

Would you buy this car?  

288 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you buy this car?

    • Yes!
      256
    • Mmeh
      32
  2. 2. Rate this car

    • 1/10
      2
    • 2/10
      1
    • 3/10
      9
    • 4/10
      7
    • 5/10
      5
    • 6/10
      13
    • 7/10
      17
    • 8/10
      67
    • 9/10
      47
    • 10/10
      120


Recommended Posts

Willy A. Jeep
10 minutes ago, Marciliojunior01 said:

This nova is the most accurate representation of how an old car behave i have ever seen in gta.

The problem lies in that GTA is not a simulator and it doesn't try to be. General players are not looking for a car that fights them, they're looking for a pleasing, fun experience in-between whatever else they're doing (because, of course, cars are transport to most people, so at best an accessory pleasure). The handling flags are bad news for any car they make bouncy, making them less desirable than any older car or one without flags and so decreasing their buyer popularity, which is somewhat surprising given how much they cost. They're a waste of time (so too money) to a general player, only finding an audience in a small niche of enthusiasts and racers willing to put up with the quirks.

 

Of course, even with input more analogous to handling a real car, I have to disagree with the idea that any of these new cars handle at all realistically. They still follow the backwards power ≠ speed problem of most vehicles in the game, and in the specific case of the Tulip or Vamos, seem more akin to a car that hasn't been cared for or has been purposefully modified for very specific pursuits. Their top speeds (and weight in the case of the Tulip) aren't exactly realist, either. On keyboard, the driving experience can be dreadful even at modest speeds, as the already twitchy handling does not mix well with the floaty, jumpy handling profiles. I can't imagine somebody on controller having an easy time with how imprecise joysticks can be. Again, it's strange to argue for realistic performance or handling when the environment is so casual, the handling system has been long-established, and the inputs available are so far from being anything like realism.

 

And, hey, give the Brits some credit. There's plenty of British people who know a lot about American cars. Entire clubs dedicated to the culture. I don't know if Broughy knows... anything about cars, I don't watch his content, but he is right about the specific nature of this game's cars. They shouldn't be realistic - the game is a casual crime sandbox, not a car simulator - they should be fun for as many people as possible. The flags, whether they're neutering the performance or throwing a wrench in the handling, need changed to that end.

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Marciliojunior01
Posted (edited)

@Willy A. Jeep

Although i agree with the part that gta is not a simulator, i think with these new cars they are experimenting with a more real life lookalike handling.

For causals is not appealing in fact, but lets be honest a car like the Vamos wouldnt be appealing for a standard gta player in the first place, is an old car that isnt that fast. Muscle cars are for essence cars with a smaller public in their target, and i doubt people who arent enthusiasts buys them (maybe some exceptions exists, but not in general).

And a lot of these enthusiasts like me and a lot others in this forum likes the way the new muscle cars drive. Because they drive like.. Muscle cars 

Edited by Marciliojunior01

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Atomic_DoNkEy

Bearing in mind how old this game is.... They have people talking about an aspect of the game. Which is obviously generating interest. As far as money is concerned there’s no such thing as bad attention. 

 

Seems to me they changed an Ed an aspect to generate interest. Good or bad it doesn’t matter. They got the desired effect. 

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Willy A. Jeep

@Marciliojunior01 & @Atomic_DoNkEy, Right, it's a criticism of Rockstar more than anything. They've done a poor job of the cars in this game, considering competition, and have left the people who do want some more specialized vehicular experiences wanting. Manipulating the game to generate news - especially in a bad way - is wretched, because it's like treating all of the fans as fodder, leaving many burned by spending on an unexpectedly poor-performing vehicle or struggling to enjoy what would otherwise be a fine addition to the game's roster. Too, it doesn't make much sense, as it limits the actual buying tendencies of players by spreading the popular "do not buy" warning to all cars with deviant handling.

 

I definitely think they could make a better handling system with the flags, but it's lacking and unrefined as of now, especially against the long-standing standard handling. I think they could make a better one in general. At its core, it's a problem of traditional apathy on the part of Rockstar, leaving one of the main draws of the game - the vehicles - incomplete and shallow. We could have a full tuning system, atleast as advanced as that in the first Forza Horizon from 2012, but they've retained a casual-focused streamlining of the customization. It's not bad, but for the ends of car enthusiasts, it's not good, and in the face of this supposed realist focus, it's incompatible. It's maddening.

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Atomic_DoNkEy
40 minutes ago, Willy A. Jeep said:

@Marciliojunior01 & @Atomic_DoNkEy, Right, it's a criticism of Rockstar more than anything. They've done a poor job of the cars in this game, considering competition, and have left the people who do want some more specialized vehicular experiences wanting. Manipulating the game to generate news - especially in a bad way - is wretched, because it's like treating all of the fans as fodder, leaving many burned by spending on an unexpectedly poor-performing vehicle or struggling to enjoy what would otherwise be a fine addition to the game's roster. Too, it doesn't make much sense, as it limits the actual buying tendencies of players by spreading the popular "do not buy" warning to all cars with deviant handling.

 

I definitely think they could make a better handling system with the flags, but it's lacking and unrefined as of now, especially against the long-standing standard handling. I think they could make a better one in general. At its core, it's a problem of traditional apathy on the part of Rockstar, leaving one of the main draws of the game - the vehicles - incomplete and shallow. We could have a full tuning system, atleast as advanced as that in the first Forza Horizon from 2012, but they've retained a casual-focused streamlining of the customization. It's not bad, but for the ends of car enthusiasts, it's not good, and in the face of this supposed realist focus, it's incompatible. It's maddening.

I don’t disagree as far as vehicle handling. But I believe it should be remembered that when playing forza or need for speed you can’t get out of your car and start a gun fight with another player. Or fly a plane..... 

 

I understand why people don’t like the flags. But if im being honest. I enjoy them solely for the fact that it’s something different. 

 

I guess if I hated it that much I’d just use a different car... 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Willy A. Jeep
18 minutes ago, Atomic_DoNkEy said:

I guess if I hated it that much I’d just use a different car.

That's one of the big parts of the problem. Imagine somebody who was really enthused about the Vamos or Tulip or whatever, liked how it looks, liked its customization, but they're not exactly somebody who's into the difficult handling. It could be ruinous for them playing the game, spending their time grinding for money, and then it turns out the car's basically worthless as a car after they've already blown their money on it. It's like a direct screwing from Rockstar. Players shouldn't be expected to conform to arbitrary rules, especially in the case of something as widely attractive as a classic muscle car (though I'd argue both the Tulip and Vamos also represent rather pedestrian cars of their time - not necessarily the tuned-up performance cars so popular in certain circles).

 

If there's going to be as much inclusion as possible, there needs to be better tuning, more specifics, so everybody can have any car any way they want. As it is, the casual customization just appeases as many people as it can without being very particular in any way, and nobody really wins or loses. That's fine until some specialized cars do turn up, which throws the middle-of-the-road balance off, again leaving flagged cars sectioned off from general players. On the meta, beyond the context of GTA, I believe players shouldn't really try to force themselves into one game if it doesn't cater to their exact preferences - there's plenty of better games for cars, whether they're racing-focused, physics simulators, or mechanic games - and that's a grand ignorance on the part of gamers in general, probably on the part of big-name marketing, but that's an argument that is much broader (and more involved) than this. I think GTA should be casual in its approach, as it has been, and not try to evolve unless there's going to be some global overhaul, or the next installment. It just makes things murky and confused.

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Marciliojunior01
Posted (edited)

Now if the flags (40000) got removed a rather significant part of the playerbase would be kinda disappointed, so the argument about making "everyone" happy doesnt fit that well anymore, i know from where you are coming from and your statement would fit before the implementation of them and before people start to like how those cars behave. 

And lets be real the amount of people who actually race muscle cars, the "racing community" is pretty small, so if R* deactivate the flags would make a small community happy but another small community (those who likes) not that happy. I saw some people here on the foruns saying that some of the cars from this DLC are the reason they come back to the game, because they are fun and different, how these people would feel if the fun is gone ? 

Then you might say, so sell the car and buy another ones that they like, we got into the same point. 

I think what you are saying is that they shoudnt have been implemented in the first place, and at this point i dont agree neither disagree, but what i know is that i had a lot of fun with the gto, tulip, deveste 8, etc. And i wouldnt like them to behave exactly as every other car in the game, being excessively easy to drive. 

Edited by Marciliojunior01

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Foxwolfe

Yeah I mean we all understand that "it's not a sim", at the same time they have made a game world in which they are attempting to somewhat realistically emulate real world physics. This can't really be argued as it's a fact, therefore while outlandish and impossible at times, the game is otherwise trying to be rather true to life in the world it creates. 

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Standard Deluxe 59

Maybe I haven't driven mine enough, but even tearing it up in the farmlands of Grapeseed I didn't find the Vamos all that difficult to drive. It's bouncy sure but nowhere near as bad as the Itali GTO and the swaying is negligible. I don't think it fights you too much unless you hit a lot of curbs and do so while turning, but then again I don't drive my Vamos(es) too often. At least these flags didn't neuter it's straight line performance, well when it goes in a straight line at least. 

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Foxwolfe
37 minutes ago, Willy A. Jeep said:

That's one of the big parts of the problem. Imagine somebody who was really enthused about the Vamos or Tulip or whatever, liked how it looks, liked its customization, but they're not exactly somebody who's into the difficult handling. It could be ruinous for them playing the game, spending their time grinding for money, and then it turns out the car's basically worthless as a car after they've already blown their money on it. It's like a direct screwing from Rockstar. Players shouldn't be expected to conform to arbitrary rules, especially in the case of something as widely attractive as a classic muscle car (though I'd argue both the Tulip and Vamos also represent rather pedestrian cars of their time - not necessarily the tuned-up performance cars so popular in certain circles).

 

First off (and I'm saying this playfully, not trying to come off as an ass lol) the Tulip and Vamos definitely represent high performance cars of their time and secondly your argument applies to the GTO too, which I spent a hell of a lot more money on than I did either the Tulip and Vamos. I've driven the thing literally twice, barely getting anywhere before I took it back to the garage, it's as you said, worthless to me. I'll keep it cause I like how it looks but I don't plan on driving it much if ever but that's the way they made it so I ain't gonna cry over it. I mean I had more than ample resources to read up on it and learn about how it drove before I spent money on it but I was curious at the same time and wasn't sure how bad it actually was. But hey it is what it is, not every car has to be enjoyable to me and even ones I might have thought would be or wanted to be don't have to be either :p

 

I dunno that prolly sounds more harsh than intended but I mean people can be disappointed as much as they like, better to just move on to something else (like another car).

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Willy A. Jeep
25 minutes ago, Marciliojunior01 said:

Now if the flags (40000) got removed a rather significant part of the playerbase would be kinda disappointed, so the argument about making "everyone" happy doesnt fit that well anymore, i know from where you are coming from and your statement would fit before the implementation of them and before people start to like how those cars behave. 

And lets be real the amount of people who actually race muscle cars, the "racing community" is pretty small, so if R* deactivate the flags would make a small community happy but another small community (those who likes) not that happy. I saw some people here on the foruns saying that some of the cars from this DLC are the reason they come back to the game, because they are fun and different, how these people would feel if the fun is gone ? 

Then you might say, so sell the car and buy another ones that they like, we got into the same point. 

I think what you are saying is that they shoudnt have been implemented in the first place, and at this point i dont agree neither disagree, but what i know is that i had a lot of fun with the gto, tulip, deveste 8, etc. And i wouldnt like them to behave exactly as every other car in the game, being excessively easy to drive. 

It's not really my opinion on the matter of the flags themselves. Sure, I'm not happy about it, but they're far from a dealbreaker for me. I enjoy the Tulip and Vamos, both are happily getting my main drivetime as of late. But I recognize that for many players, they're just not worth it. For as many people who are interested because of the flags, who are happy with them, there's players who were turned off from playing because so many new cars are, to them, undriveable, or who have already wasted time and money on things they sold right away. I don't think everybody will be pleased in any one scenario - I try to make it clear that, from my figuring, the best route is to make the game enjoyable for as many people as possible, and that might mean some groups are neglected.

 

I'm a big lover of econoboxes, land yachts, and weird stuff, so I've rarely been directly catered to, myself. I've made do with what I've got, and I recognize that is the experience of many of us around the forums. We're seeing a lot of fatigue towards the same-old, same-old (which is funny, considering super cars and flying bikes should be amazing), and I think the game needs some more variety, too. Life breathed into it, something... different. I just think, in the current environment, the flags are doing more harm on the grand scale than they're doing good in the small. Five years into the game's life, with no changes to any of the older cars, new handling profiles are so strange to see. A similar thing happened with Smuggler's Run, I think - the newer planes are more sensitive to inputs - and that meant that some people with motion sickness literally couldn't enjoy any of the new aircraft. Just as then, the flags are flawed, and if they're here to stay, they need work, refinement, maybe replacement with a new new solution. Something better for everybody.

 

11 minutes ago, Foxwolfe said:

your argument applies to the GTO too

I've not mentioned the GTO because I have no experience with it. Hearing about it, I understand it to be in a sorry state, but I don't want to erroneously say something I haven't experienced myself. But my main attempt in talking about the flags is to point out other perspectives, view the problem from the third person, understand that there's different opinions, preferences, and tolerances among different people. Much of the community is casual, people who don't even know these cars are coming in a dripfeed, maybe without any understanding of the internal workings of the game. They're just here to have fun. But the way the game is, it enforces a sort-of time sink for people who do want the cool stuff, and when that perceived cool stuff turns out to be unpleasing, that's a lot of time wasted. Further, in some cases, like a favorite real-world car getting an in-game analogue, it'd be really awful to discover you can't enjoy it like you want. It's happened for ages, the flags are just a new stage, and I'm trying to push back on it for the sake of the masses. People are different, as I've learned in my time, and I always try to see everybody else over myself, especially in this sort of global community-touching problem, however hard to wrap my brain around.

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Mach1bud

Hey guys, I am all for healthy conversation which is definitely going on in here. Just thought I would drop a casual reminder about the title of the topic however. So lets try not to steer too off topic. 

 

"Declasse Vamos Appreciation Thread"

 

D0oCSFiXgAAlviO?format=jpg&name=large

 

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Standard Deluxe 59

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Atomic_DoNkEy

nxefmH4.jpg

 

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boduke70

Only weigh in on the handling business (pun intended) is if R* would have more realistic gravity, it may solve the woes. Seems around the time the hangars and all the planes came along they lowered it.

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boduke70
On 3/6/2019 at 10:39 PM, Standard Deluxe 59 said:

TWMfu5mUsk2e564tcRa32A_0_0.jpg?downsize=

v2SPj_J5Lk-pFLLouH9tIw_0_0.jpg?downsize=

uQrQdT7lp0eF-feBlLuvBA_0_0.jpg?downsize=

Very, very nice stuff...never was into redline tires but they are very period accurate, if not by 68 when this style Nova appeared kind of on the wane in favor of white letters like Polyglas GTs. Looks very cool there, wish we could have more realistic wheel/tire sizing and more accurately placed and sized whie walls, red lines, and lettering - plus full palette wheel coloring. Green one is tight as well. We’d get along well in car meets etc lol

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Forza Harrd

Had them both out last night and made some minor changes, thought I'd take some comparison snapshots and you know me, I have to share EVERYTHING.

 

WbG3T8m.jpg

 

n7fGd9T.jpg

 

XT7lriD.jpg

 

yvZTHoW.jpg

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